Scraps 🥵 Abundance 🤢

[an****]

Something I've been trying to understand lately is why consistent availability and attention can seemingly reduce someone's interest and effort, while limited or inconsistent attention can increase it.

For most of my life, my career naturally limited my availability. If I cared about someone, I could give them a lot when I was present, but eventually work or responsibility pulled me away. I didn't intentionally create scarcity it just existed.

Now that I'm retired and have no reason to work I accepted an entry level low stress position, where I am not burdened and mostly bored, I work on my rental property and projects after work and workout and socialize and still do more than anyone I know yet now more available throughout the day.

I just have a huge capacity for giving attention and seeing people, things, and processes to their core (like standing in front of a lighthouse light, warm, great in small doses, burning after a short while unless the receiver has enormous capacity for light (like a critical complicated complex project or similar person)).

The natural limitation to my access and attention is largely gone. If I like someone, I have the time and capacity to give them attention consistently and constantly. And bake them with my gaze 🤣

I find it interesting that this produces terrible results. I personally like abundant attention and I have never experienced attention burnout even with hundreds of employees and family and play dynamics I worked 20 hour days for years and truly miss that level of demand. I also don't remember liking anyone more because I couldn't get ahold of them (quite the contrary).

Access to my flock and their access to me is the only way I know how to survive. I never got to exist where access was currency or choice, it has always been required and critical to life.

Maybe this is the antithesis of calm survival. Survival in chaos means that a lack of access was mortally dangerous for the protected, and anxiety invoking in the protector.

Someone can seemingly be perfectly comfortable getting scraps of another person's attention, waiting for responses, wondering when they'll see them again, etc. But give that same person consistent interest, communication, availability, and effort and suddenly it can feel like too much or the quality and quantity of the conversation gets thin.

Why? This is definitely not the case in a warzone 🤣 or during a company end of year audit. Communication is key and knowledge is needed and there is a mutual interest in knowledge sharing.

I'm not really interested in the standard answer of "just be less available." I can obviously manufacture scarcity. That's not particularly difficult, and it feels more like manipulating the symptom than understanding the mechanism.

That said I am going back to a high stress position and have decided to drown myself in work where I feel alive whilst on fire and under soul crushing responsibility and deadlines 🤤🫠 sounds so nice. I just would like that same intensity in my dynamics but they lack the capacity and I have to refocus or something is going to fail and could already be overly damaged now.

What I'm interested in is what changes psychologically when attention moves from scarce to abundant? Why?

My actual value doesn't change and my ability to transfer value actually increases, so what is the 'ghost in the machine'?

Or does scarcity increase perceived value? Does anticipation require absence? Does consistent attention remove uncertainty that was generating dopamine? Does receiving a lot create an obligation to reciprocate that receiving scraps doesn't? Does abundant attention expose an investment imbalance that scarcity was actually hiding?

And specifically within BDSM, where attention, access, service, control, praise, communication, and availability can themselves carry significant value.

How do you give generously without abundance inadvertently making what you're giving feel less valuable? Or is that just part of the dynamic to manage just like creating a scene or space. Is it only an issue because knowing the situation makes the logic of the reaction feel, well for lack of a better word, stupid?

I value the work my electrician does because he is skilled and intentional, his value does not increase if he is not available, and it actually does increase if I have seen and like his work and he can fulfill my needs sooner and makes room for me.

So why is availability to help with a problem or fix valued highly, yet availability for connection reduces value. I assume just goal/need conflict and alignment or management of dynamic is the solution but it's also why does this exist? For what purpose?

[ge****]

Food for thought !

[Un****]

Its just narcissism. Weak narcissists pine for what they perceive to be stronger narcissists/sociopaths. Its why women are obsessed with "changing" toxic men and why men simp for a chance at a trophy.

[Sa****]

I have never understand this concept either that less available makes one more likely to have people always trying to get together and be social together. I am in fact in a similar situation. Disabled, don't work, and no kids. it's been incredibly frustrating meeting new people because it seems like the less I have going on the less people seem to be drawn to me. Its impossible to fill my schedule as oftentimes financial reasons keep me from " living" it seems.

[an****]

1 hour ago, Underdark said:

Its just narcissism. Weak narcissists pine for what they perceive to be stronger narcissists/sociopaths. Its why women are obsessed with "changing" toxic men and why men simp for a chance at a trophy.

Yeah, I get that. But that makes the narc a better match, until not. Because a narcissistic person tends to provide less attention/effort than the other person actually wants, void, they unintentionally or intentionally maintain scarcity and therefore keep the other person seeking?

Their availability stays below the receiver's desired capacity, uncomfort remains, security never stablizes, so the receiver never reaches saturation.

Where as the available person may provide more than the required capacity and create stability resulting in more calm less seeking behavior and withdrawal of effort as needs are met. In a more push, more withdrawal, dynamic.

Why is it designed this way?

Nod to prey state is an interesting branch 🤔

[Kn****]

It's a rise in Fraysexuality.
The more familiar and close they become the less attraction they feel.
The novelty wears off.
I blame it on the instant gratification thrown at us daily by society...

[ki****]

too much access to me creates an expectation that I’ll always be available. In the digital era, everyone is always looking for the next shiny thing. I’ve found that when I’m too available, people can start to take that access for granted. It’s almost like something that’s always sitting on the shelf. On some subconscious level, it can start to feel less desirable simply because it’s always there.

When in doubt, I try to match energy with energy and not overextend myself. At the same time, I have to remember that not everyone moves at the same pace. Sometimes someone is simply moving slower, and that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re uninterested. The balance is giving people room without giving more than I’m actually receiving.

[an****]

1 hour ago, kinkster-sf said:

too much access to me creates an expectation that I’ll always be available. In the digital era, everyone is always looking for the next shiny thing. I’ve found that when I’m too available, people can start to take that access for granted. It’s almost like something that’s always sitting on the shelf. On some subconscious level, it can start to feel less desirable simply because it’s always there.

When in doubt, I try to match energy with energy and not overextend myself. At the same time, I have to remember that not everyone moves at the same pace. Sometimes someone is simply moving slower, and that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re uninterested. The balance is giving people room without giving more than I’m actually receiving.

Sage protocol here. Just irritated, I know it's my own sabotage of personal boundaries that got me here but you kind of forget how sitting in that position feels 🤣 and my heart goes out to people stuck there or cursed to repeat this cycle.

I mapped it to potentially get this curve.

Severe deficit results in pursuit.

Moderate deficit results in anticipation/curiosity.

Equilibrium results in calm/security.

Moderate surplus results in disengagement.

Large or uncontrolled surplus results in avoidance.

Still in the prey dynamic but also in the fray and 'shiny quarter' paradigm.

The thing is is that you can't really tell if interest is due to deficit of capacity or what that capacity is so once you hit equilibrium you are actually at the interest level baseline (that may feel like withdrawal) and then over abundance creates overwhelm which then turns into negative attention.

This whole thing, has a really hard take on pursuit which is interesting. As though the prey dynamic does not actually include a predator as an interested party. This is interesting in the sense that I've always known it as just that, more of a yin yang approach to the prey dynamic. When in reality or how this model presents itself is more of a prey towards non-threatening other prey (if you will) and all predator behavior being negative and avoided, which could actually be a quite enlightening observation.

The model is as though both parties are trying to regulate and if one party pushes more as reaction to the withdrawal the state almost changes from withdrawal to run and if persistent pursuit continues you are looking at almost creating a trauma like events where the prey no longer returns to a curious state, or has a hard time becoming curious again if the event is taking to an extreme (predator).

[Cu****]

Because people tend to naturally want what they can't have because it takes the challenge out of it once you have it

[Da****]

Should there be a minister survey for how far through the healing process you are? I’m not going backwards!

[an****]

6 hours ago, Dangerotica said:

Should there be a minister survey for how far through the healing process you are? I’m not going backwards!

Depends on the level at which you can tolerate the other person's withdrawal without converting discomfort into pursuit. A test with scores would be a great status check ✅☺️

[an****]

Something like this.

0, the withdrawal causes immediate pursuit and escalation.

1, you stop pursuing, but repeatedly check socials, messages, asks follow on questions (double text), reassures (gives and seeks), seeks explanation.

2, stops pursuit, but highly dysregulated.

3, stops pursuit, self regulated.

4, stays available without pursuing.

5, comfortable with either return or departure.

The problem is that the 'healthier' it gets the more it mirrors ambivalence or disinterest.

Tolerating withdrawal and not chasing, allowing spontaneous engagement, and accepting that someone may leave can show regulation, but it can represent someone who doesn't care enough to pursue the connection at all.

If both people practice nonpursuit, each can even experience the other as abandonment. Like leaving so much room you aren't even close anymore.

Real eye opener to the complexities of all this.

[Da****]

1 hour ago, anotherusername said:

Something like this.

0, the withdrawal causes immediate pursuit and escalation.

1, you stop pursuing, but repeatedly check socials, messages, asks follow on questions (double text), reassures (gives and seeks), seeks explanation.

2, stops pursuit, but highly dysregulated.

3, stops pursuit, self regulated.

4, stays available without pursuing.

5, comfortable with either return or departure.

The problem is that the 'healthier' it gets the more it mirrors ambivalence or disinterest.

Tolerating withdrawal and not chasing, allowing spontaneous engagement, and accepting that someone may leave can show regulation, but it can represent someone who doesn't care enough to pursue the connection at all.

If both people practice nonpursuit, each can even experience the other as abandonment. Like leaving so much room you aren't even close anymore.

Real eye opener to the complexities of all this.

What if you found a partner that understood the assignment too? Could it then be a new delineation of trust and intimacy that allows higher elevation ? lol I love these kind of conversations

[Ye****]

Interesting use of a question/problem as also an advertisement. Noice

The healthy unhealthy thing is some bullshit. Imagine 2 healthy people with an, I could take it or leave it attitude having any real life issue that needs an “us” orientation, vs a me and you as individuals orientation. It’s some rich people, with no real life problems psycho babble, that doesn’t value interadependence and sees real connection and care as codependency.

[Sa****]

I'm starting to wonder if maybe I've just infact been too overwhelming whenever I meet someone new 😞 sometimes having a personality like mine I feel is more of a curse than anything. Why can't I ever seem to find a happy medium in anything I do seem to enjoy.

[an****]

3 hours ago, YesMrJ said:

Interesting use of a question/problem as also an advertisement. Noice

The healthy unhealthy thing is some bullshit. Imagine 2 healthy people with an, I could take it or leave it attitude having any real life issue that needs an “us” orientation, vs a me and you as individuals orientation. It’s some rich people, with no real life problems psycho babble, that doesn’t value interadependence and sees real connection and care as codependency.

Yes. This is exactly the problem I keep running into with the “healthy” end of the model. At some point healthy regulation becomes behaviorally indistinguishable from ambivalence or disinterest. If the highest form of attachment is “I can take it or leave it,” we've accidentally rewarded detachment.

Interdependence allows two regulated people to still choose an "us orientation" as you said, actively repair, and value the connection without automatically calling that "codependency". I think you found the missing variable. I'll have to rework this for review.

[an****]

After further review, we are getting muddy now, the 'healthy' here describes regulation in response to dysfunctional input, not the ideal behavior of a functioning relationship. So, while these inputs are true of how a relationship should work, this model is addressing 'survival' scoring when it is already broken.

[an****]

7 hours ago, SassyGRUNGEgiRL26 said:

I'm starting to wonder if maybe I've just infact been too overwhelming whenever I meet someone new 😞 sometimes having a personality like mine I feel is more of a curse than anything. Why can't I ever seem to find a happy medium in anything I do seem to enjoy.

I am going to respond to this, I have started a reply about 6 times now, I have family in town.

If you are willing, please provide some details about the feedback you have received or the perceived 'too overwhelming' or 'happy medium' characteristics.

Further, you said 'anything', is this affecting non-relationships as well.

*Not being rude, I want to know the saturation. Example: if you enjoy making breakfast yet feel like you can't get toast buttered correctly and it ruins your day, that is vastly different than relationship dynamics.

[BlueGrace]

I am poly and I have been with 3 of my Doms for almost 18 years. My 4th for almost one year, and recently my 5th for maybe a month. I am an educator/work full time, I have hobbies, I have a massive garden that I tend to, I have a life outside of my partners. I have boundaries when it comes to accessing me. No one is entitled in my dynamic to my time. I give them my time because I love them, cherish them, and respect them. I have time for myself when I want time for myself. I will shut down access to me when I feel the need to. I dislike my phone being blow up multiple times because someone cannot be patient or they need to be entertained because they are bored. I have an ex partner that I had to end things with because he felt entitled to me and my time. He would blow my phone up the minute my contract hours were over and would continuously do so. He struggled with being told no and he was pushy, needy, self-centered, and had the personality of moldy corn. He tried pushing me to be a caregiver for his disability even though that goes against my boundaries.
Your availability is not always going to be someone else’s availability. Many people dislike their phones blowing up, etc. Communication is great and a key in dynamics. Overloading someone with it isn’t. It can make the other person feel smothered and overwhelmed. People have lives outside of their dynamic and you’re not entitled to that. It can be very annoying to have emails or phones blowing up all day because the other is bored or has nothing new to do to entertain themselves and be patient.

[an****]

10 hours ago, BlueGrace said:

I am poly and I have been with 3 of my Doms for almost 18 years. My 4th for almost one year, and recently my 5th for maybe a month. I am an educator/work full time, I have hobbies, I have a massive garden that I tend to, I have a life outside of my partners. I have boundaries when it comes to accessing me. No one is entitled in my dynamic to my time. I give them my time because I love them, cherish them, and respect them. I have time for myself when I want time for myself. I will shut down access to me when I feel the need to. I dislike my phone being blow up multiple times because someone cannot be patient or they need to be entertained because they are bored. I have an ex partner that I had to end things with because he felt entitled to me and my time. He would blow my phone up the minute my contract hours were over and would continuously do so. He struggled with being told no and he was pushy, needy, self-centered, and had the personality of moldy corn. He tried pushing me to be a caregiver for his disability even though that goes against my boundaries.
Your availability is not always going to be someone else’s availability. Many people dislike their phones blowing up, etc. Communication is great and a key in dynamics. Overloading someone with it isn’t. It can make the other person feel smothered and overwhelmed. People have lives outside of their dynamic and you’re not entitled to that. It can be very annoying to have emails or phones blowing up all day because the other is bored or has nothing new to do to entertain themselves and be patient.

I really appreciate you sharing and I welcome more sharing from individuals in this abundance environment.

The pray / non-predator dynamic exists here as well and in that light we can all learn something.

Although, I am entertaining that the dynamic is more prey / stoic predator rather than non, because the seeking is still present no matter the calmness. Like cleaner fish or how a biologist can interact with wildlife. Danger is present but curiosity is higher priority.

It's not so much the availability or the attention as it is the demand that turns interest into perceived aggression. Multiple messages become boundary issues and irritating. Notifications become cries.

I only have one dynamic where I have to manufacture absence and delay so it's definitely a learning curve for me because I've never experienced messages going unanswered.

But I do welcome growth. Very comical part is if I narrate my day every couple hours she may not reply for four, eight, 12, or 24 hours and not answered anything or detail what she's done. If she messages me and I don't reply to her within a couple hours she's blowing my phone up so it's very strange situation and I am trying to fully wrap my head around it.

This tracks with the anxious curious prey dynamic. Comes out to look around, message sent, but doesn't see the non-predator/ 'safe-predator' in the area (reply delay), so anxiety spikes. This is my working hypothesis.

If she gets constant input from me she's calm enough not to have to reach out (which looks like pulling away, when in reality she's just comfortable). She also ignores questions that she doesn't know how to answer or make her feel uncomfortable. (She had a stomach bug and I asked her if she had worked everything out in very specific language and she didn't want to tell me that she had pooped 🤣 so she ignored the question and others of a different focus).

In the prey dynamic I would say that this would be a random mushroom or weird slug in the area the common response would be "what's that" or "look at that bug" or "I don't know" or "I don't want to answer that question" someone overwhelmed or quiet ignores or doesn't say a word but the silence is not intentionally trying to harm the dynamic, silent non-verbal cues are important in person, over text, silence is hard to evaluate.

Have you specifically told your dom not to message you more than once or wait multiple hours or days for a reply?

I specifically asked if she would like less communication or for me to wait for her response. She said she likes me narrating and sending pictures and details about my day, she says yes I love hearing from you.

I know that this is a me problem but it's so deep-seated it's very hard to identify what is happening when it's happening. Again working hypothesis, the act of repeated contact without reward or reciprocation creates a prey drive somewhere deep in our lizard brain and without self-correction moves the aggressor into a more primal state and I only attribute this to behaviors that insured our survival leaking out into a world that no longer operates that way.

I have a lot more to think about, but this is very fascinating to me and I want to know the actual mechanics of what is actually happening on the chemical/psyc level.

[BlueGrace]

4 hours ago, anotherusername said:

I really appreciate you sharing and I welcome more sharing from individuals in this abundance environment.

The pray / non-predator dynamic exists here as well and in that light we can all learn something.

Although, I am entertaining that the dynamic is more prey / stoic predator rather than non, because the seeking is still present no matter the calmness. Like cleaner fish or how a biologist can interact with wildlife. Danger is present but curiosity is higher priority.

It's not so much the availability or the attention as it is the demand that turns interest into perceived aggression. Multiple messages become boundary issues and irritating. Notifications become cries.

I only have one dynamic where I have to manufacture absence and delay so it's definitely a learning curve for me because I've never experienced messages going unanswered.

But I do welcome growth. Very comical part is if I narrate my day every couple hours she may not reply for four, eight, 12, or 24 hours and not answered anything or detail what she's done. If she messages me and I don't reply to her within a couple hours she's blowing my phone up so it's very strange situation and I am trying to fully wrap my head around it.

This tracks with the anxious curious prey dynamic. Comes out to look around, message sent, but doesn't see the non-predator/ 'safe-predator' in the area (reply delay), so anxiety spikes. This is my working hypothesis.

If she gets constant input from me she's calm enough not to have to reach out (which looks like pulling away, when in reality she's just comfortable). She also ignores questions that she doesn't know how to answer or make her feel uncomfortable. (She had a stomach bug and I asked her if she had worked everything out in very specific language and she didn't want to tell me that she had pooped 🤣 so she ignored the question and others of a different focus).

In the prey dynamic I would say that this would be a random mushroom or weird slug in the area the common response would be "what's that" or "look at that bug" or "I don't know" or "I don't want to answer that question" someone overwhelmed or quiet ignores or doesn't say a word but the silence is not intentionally trying to harm the dynamic, silent non-verbal cues are important in person, over text, silence is hard to evaluate.

Have you specifically told your dom not to message you more than once or wait multiple hours or days for a reply?

I specifically asked if she would like less communication or for me to wait for her response. She said she likes me narrating and sending pictures and details about my day, she says yes I love hearing from you.

I know that this is a me problem but it's so deep-seated it's very hard to identify what is happening when it's happening. Again working hypothesis, the act of repeated contact without reward or reciprocation creates a prey drive somewhere deep in our lizard brain and without self-correction moves the aggressor into a more primal state and I only attribute this to behaviors that insured our survival leaking out into a world that no longer operates that way.

I have a lot more to think about, but this is very fascinating to me and I want to know the actual mechanics of what is actually happening on the chemical/psyc level.

After I broke down your word salad analogies and interesting viewpoint, I wonder if a therapist would be very beneficial for you to help you navigate your thoughts and actions.
Have you ever considered that your partner is busy when she doesn’t reply? She could be away from her phone and enjoying an activity or working. Not everyone is going to be sitting next to their phone anticipating a message.

I always set communication boundaries with all of my partners. I make it absolutely clear that I have a life outside of them and I will answer them when I am able. I make time for all of my Doms and I make time for myself. I live with 2 of my Doms and we have rules about communication during the day.

Some people are fine with narration of their day and others find it annoying. Some don’t like to be constantly questioned about what they do and others struggle to word what they have done because they find it difficult or uncomfortable to talk about. Some people are raised in certain cultures where bodily functions aren’t spoken about.

I think it would be very helpful for you to not overanalyze any of this. That leads to non logical theories and analogies that are concocted. Have you considered finding a new hobby or something to occupy your attention during the day?

I love hearing from my partners but I do not like a full day narration play by play nor a series of panicked messages. It’s annoying and they respect my boundaries on it.

I think you should stop looking at it from a predator prey concept. It’s not logical in what you’re describing and she’s a human being not a wild ***. I think therapy would be very beneficial for you to help you unpack your thoughts and feelings regarding yourself and how you see your reality.

[Sa****]

Sunday at 06:03 PM, anotherusername said:

I am going to respond to this, I have started a reply about 6 times now, I have family in town.

If you are willing, please provide some details about the feedback you have received or the perceived 'too overwhelming' or 'happy medium' characteristics.

Further, you said 'anything', is this affecting non-relationships as well.

*Not being rude, I want to know the saturation. Example: if you enjoy making breakfast yet feel like you can't get toast buttered correctly and it ruins your day, that is vastly different than relationship dynamics.

I struggle with addiction type mentality, although I'm Cali sober, rent is due daily. I very much have what many people consider a all or nothing type energy. I either spend countless hours analyzing conversations or past social situations and oftentimes think I made myself look weird. I don't seem to understand social cues very well. They don't seem to make much sense in the moment and this leads to awkward encounters

[an****]

16 minutes ago, SassyGRUNGEgiRL26 said:

I struggle with addiction type mentality, although I'm Cali sober, rent is due daily. I very much have what many people consider a all or nothing type energy. I either spend countless hours analyzing conversations or past social situations and oftentimes think I made myself look weird. I don't seem to understand social cues very well. They don't seem to make much sense in the moment and this leads to awkward encounters

I do understand the 'all-in' mentality. Sassy, we are all addicted. Alcohol, coffee, ***, dairy, sex, adrenaline, aggression, etc. This makes you more normal than less. If you do not feel comfortable answering my earlier questions here. You can DM me and I can walk you through some exercises that help with clarity.

[Sa****]

14 minutes ago, anotherusername said:

I do understand the 'all-in' mentality. Sassy, we are all addicted. Alcohol, coffee, ***, dairy, sex, adrenaline, aggression, etc. This makes you more normal than less. If you do not feel comfortable answering my earlier questions here. You can DM me and I can walk you through some exercises that help with clarity.

Plzzzzz. I'll dm u