Double standards?

[jinxed]

1 hour ago, eyemblacksheep said:

If a 19 year old man said he was looking for an older woman, the women do tend to be more reserved cos often what they are looking for does mean more work for the woman.

This is the crux of the matter. An older woman who is agreeing to have sex with a man this age is not really gaining much. Experience is lacking, body shape is not at its peak, brain functions are still developing. And I think this is at the root of my biased thinking, because before reading the comments on here, I couldn't see a woman engaging in such an interaction for any other reason but to do this young man a massive favour. But of course, people will be people and so there will be some more sinister reasons for such encounters. 

[jinxed]

9 hours ago, Dom-X said:

Having worked through it now, I can see that her want to be desired from someone young, very into her, and seemingly emotionally strong (I wasn't), was just her way of getting approval from outside sources in a time when she felt very ***. She latched onto me in a very unhealthy and codependent way and in a time that I was young, ***, and just starting to learn who I was.
 

See, this is why I couldn't make up my mind. The thought that my actions might impact someone in a negative way despite my best intentions is horrible. Thanks for this reminder!! 

[OB****]

Society claimed the moral high ground and lost saying who can love whom in interracial relationships, Same-sex relationships, Women marrying outside their social class, Marriage across religious boundaries, Royal and aristocratic marriages, Caste-based relationships, Relationships between enslaved and free people, Immigrant–native relationships, Age and widowhood expectations for women, Divorce and remarriage, Interfaith dating and marriage. It is a recurring theme where society thinks it knows better and oppressed the two in love. Instead of oppressing the people in love just let them be with the age gap. The more you interfere the more it draws them together. Let them be.

[Vo****]

I tend to agree, especially if there is some sort of grooming involved. Seeing an older man chasing after young girls doesn't sit well with me.
On the other side, if I see a mature woman going out with a young man, just makes me think good on him, the lucky bastard.

[Ta****]

14 hours ago, Dom-X said:

I went through something like this when I was younger. I was that young male sleeping with the very hot older female. Mix in a power dynamic in that she was my therapist and I can see how so many people thought I was being taken advantage of. And in hindsight, I can see it too.
At the time of us dating, I got the typical "yea she's hot" and "holy shit bro, your therapist?!" from my male friends. I would get absolute bewilderment from others on how I was able to start dating my therapist. All of which was a boost to my ego that was admittedly very low at the time.
We dated for many years and I can honestly say it felt like the most healthy relationship in the early days. That feeling is what kept me scoffing when someone would suggest that she isnt well and that she is taking advantage of me. Then came the full on breakdowns when she felt like I was "pulling away". Her need for approval from me was so strong that she would lose it if she ever thought I was leaving her and her mind would come up with the smallest thing I did or said to validate her thoughts of me wanting to leave. I was too young to be aware of what was happening. I mean, shes the therapist so she has to be the stable one, right?

Having worked through it now, I can see that her want to be desired from someone young, very into her, and seemingly emotionally strong (I wasn't), was just her way of getting approval from outside sources in a time when she felt very ***. She latched onto me in a very unhealthy and codependent way and in a time that I was young, ***, and just starting to learn who I was.
All the blame isn't on her though. I chose to stay for my own selfish needs too in the beginning. I was getting some of my self worth from being with the hot therapist. I really didn't feel "taken advantage of" at the time.

All this to say I had people over the years try to make me aware of what was happening and how unhealthy it was but nothing more than a quick comment here and there. If it was a older male therapist with a younger female client, I can imagine the uproar would have been much greater than what I experienced.

That was an ugly story, I'm sorry you had to go through that.
There are ***rs of all genders, and those love to prey on the young and troubled.

[ey****]

14 hours ago, suhmboddie said:

 

 If they can't be held responsible for relationships, then why should they be able to influence local & national politics which affects everybody?

this is a kinda straw argument.   So on one hand, yes people of all ages can be held responsible for relationships.   However.  

"Old enough to vote" is a legal threshold (as is old enough to drink, have sex etc) saying someone is old enough to vote (or have sex with ***rs) doesn't mean there aren't meaningful development differences and power imbalances 

Voting is a civic right, not a certificate of maturity.  Because we can trust someone to make a political choice doesn't mean we can assume they are capable of navigating a relationship with someone twice their age.   

Legal doesn't automatically mean healthy, equal or free from exploitation. The question isn't whether the 19-year-old is allowed to consent; it's whether the circumstances create a significant imbalance of power, experience or vulnerability - and why the older person wants that particular imbalance.

This is again a difference between two people who meet and form the old 'genuine connection' regardless on age gap, and someone who is specifically or repeatedly seeking out someone who is inexperienced, less finacially independent, more likely to take impulsive risks, so on.

 My concern is when an older person repeatedly chooses partners specifically because they're young, inexperienced or considered easier to influence. At that point, ‘they're legally an adult’ doesn't really address the concern

[OB****]

What the experts say:

When dating a younger adult, Dan Savage's core principle is the campsite rule: you must leave your younger or less-experienced partner in at least as good of a physical and emotional state as you found them in.

The Campsite Rule. Protect their well-being: “That means no STDs, no unwanted pregnancy, not overburdening them with your emotional or sexual baggage, and so on.”

-- [Reddit]Acknowledge the impact: Younger partners often take everything an older, more experienced mentor teaches them as absolute truth, carrying those lessons forward for the rest of their lives.

Best Practices for Age-Gap DatingBe honest about intentions: Clearly communicate whether you are looking for a casual hookup or a long-term commitment so no one gets misled.

Recognize power dynamics: Understand that an older partner often holds more financial or social resources, meaning you must actively avoid manipulative or coercive dynamics.

Respect lifestyle differences: Keep in mind that partners in different life stages may have distinct priorities around careers, social circles, and free time.

(This is what the experts say about dating with an age gap). I have placed it here because some people need it.

Cheers, it happens.

[OB****]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DccXNQWxVD1/?igsi=MXJzNGp5Nms2bnpraw==

[ey****]

35 minutes ago, OB1Kenobi said:

What the experts say:

Those are all very valid points for dealing with age gaps.

Realistically speaking, mind. How many people do you think apply them, conciouisly and consistently?  

[OB****]

I think anybody that wants an AG should do this. If they don't the younger should leave. I assume that Calvin Klein does it in his 46 years age gap relationship.

[ey****]

which leads to the question of why would they specifically want such an imbalance

again there is a difference between relationships happen and we're in love - rather than specifically, or repeatedly, seeking them out

For Calvin Klein - one key difference is although he has an almightly 46 year age gap, his partner was 27 when they started dating, 10 years ago. And so while there are still assorted power imbalances, his partner will have more likely passed through puberty and brain development and less likely to be as impulsive

However, of course, his relationship before Kevin Baker was another large age gap, with Nick Gruber. Nick was twenty when they started dating and people were understandably very critical and concerned by it - and it was only a short relationship.  It may well be fair to be critical of Klein in that relationship 

[Br****]

Age gaps create a dynamic that is rarely balanced. I’m asking you to ask yourself this - what are you REALLY after looking at partners older than you versus partners that are younger than you? I personally find s3x with men much younger than me to be highly unappealing because immature minds just don’t do it for me. Men much older than me don’t do it for me either because if I wanted wisdom and guidance I’d learn it from a book, and books don’t ask me to take my clothes off. People closer to my age share a generational energy I can more easily match with and identify. Younger people “feel” jarring, older people “feel” condescending. Maybe my fellow hypersensitive empaths can relate? This is coming from one and only one perspective - mine! 😘

[Ia****]

22 hours ago, BrokenCollar said:

Age gaps create a dynamic that is rarely balanced. I’m asking you to ask yourself this - what are you REALLY after looking at partners older than you versus partners that are younger than you? I personally find s3x with men much younger than me to be highly unappealing because immature minds just don’t do it for me. Men much older than me don’t do it for me either because if I wanted wisdom and guidance I’d learn it from a book, and books don’t ask me to take my clothes off. People closer to my age share a generational energy I can more easily match with and identify. Younger people “feel” jarring, older people “feel” condescending. Maybe my fellow hypersensitive empaths can relate? This is coming from one and only one perspective - mine! 😘

I agree with what this person is saying. It depends on you & what your relationship means for you. I don't date younger either. I prefer to date someone who is in their 30s to mid 40s which isn't that far off from my own age of 28. I prefer to date this way because I've always found older men attractive. However, even though they're older, that doesn't mean they'll provide for you or guide you. Some older people are just as lost in life as you are & are looking at the oldest person next to them on how to be an adult. Some older people made terrible financial choices one after another & are now paying for it in their 40s, 50s & even in their 60s. So again, what do YOU want in the relationship?

[Sp****]

The litmus test of maturity... A 19f with lots of maturity is different than a 25yr old with zero.. And some older guys are just finally meeting the maturity of said, mature 19f.

[OB****]

23 hours ago, BrokenCollar said:

Age gaps create a dynamic that is rarely balanced. I’m asking you to ask yourself this - what are you REALLY after looking at partners older than you versus partners that are younger than you? I personally find s3x with men much younger than me to be highly unappealing because immature minds just don’t do it for me. Men much older than me don’t do it for me either because if I wanted wisdom and guidance I’d learn it from a book, and books don’t ask me to take my clothes off. People closer to my age share a generational energy I can more easily match with and identify. Younger people “feel” jarring, older people “feel” condescending. Maybe my fellow hypersensitive empaths can relate? This is coming from one and only one perspective - mine! 😘

I don't throw shade at anyone. Our history is filled with opinionated people about topics they know nothing about. If two people click, they click. If you don't click, you blame it on something you can rationalize like race, and ageism is the the new phobia. If you don't like a person, just move on. Don't let your depression put words that you will regret later. Time passes faster as you get older, and soon you will be the old one.

If two people find love, for even a short time, that is a positive thing.

As for the ageists, get a grip. Stop being a hater, and start being a lover.

[ey****]

Returning a little to the OP 

Most relationships contain some power differences. There's a lot we don't notice, or necessarily think about, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. Often those differences favour the man in a heterosexual relationship, whether he realises it or not, and whether he's consciously using them or not

Obviously people are different one (say) 40 year old isn't the same as another. Just as one (say) 20 year old isn't the same as another.  But the older person is on balance more likely to be financially stable or secure, have a lot more of the old "life experience" and sexual and relationship experience, greater social confidence, more independence, and more likely to be seen as an influence to the younger partner.    Obviously not everything applies to everyone but a lot is a compound of things. These are all regardless of sex/gender.

Someone younger may still be establishing independence, career, idendity and adult relaitonships. An older partner can consequently have disproportionate influence over those parts of their life.

However, there are of course differences between men and women, men are, on average, physically stronger and often have greater economic and social power because of wider societal patterns. Whether we like it or not, there is also a lot of culturally rein***d authority that men can be seen to have.

In an older-man/younger-woman relationship, the older partner may have advantages arising from both age and gendered social power.

In an older-woman/younger-man relationship, the older woman may have advantages arising from age and experience, while the younger man may retain some advantages associated with gender.

And this is a big reason why viewing them both through different lenses isn't double standards.

Treating two situations differently isn't automatically a double standard. A double standard would be applying inconsistent principles to equivalent situations. If the underlying power dynamics aren't equivalent, it's reasonable to examine them differently

Of course, age gaps aren't necessarily wrong. Nor are they necessarily right (Legality establishes a minimum boundary; it doesn't establish that something is automatically healthy, ethical or free from exploitation) nor are they necessarily bad/abusive/predatory regardless of their length.  However, I still main suspicion on patterned behaviour, i.e. specifically seeking out someone based on advantages/imbalance, particularly if it is a repeated pattern.

 

[OB****]

3 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

Returning a little to the OP 

Most relationships contain some power differences. There's a lot we don't notice, or necessarily think about, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. Often those differences favour the man in a heterosexual relationship, whether he realises it or not, and whether he's consciously using them or not

Obviously people are different one (say) 40 year old isn't the same as another. Just as one (say) 20 year old isn't the same as another.  But the older person is on balance more likely to be financially stable or secure, have a lot more of the old "life experience" and sexual and relationship experience, greater social confidence, more independence, and more likely to be seen as an influence to the younger partner.    Obviously not everything applies to everyone but a lot is a compound of things. These are all regardless of sex/gender.

Someone younger may still be establishing independence, career, idendity and adult relaitonships. An older partner can consequently have disproportionate influence over those parts of their life.

However, there are of course differences between men and women, men are, on average, physically stronger and often have greater economic and social power because of wider societal patterns. Whether we like it or not, there is also a lot of culturally rein***d authority that men can be seen to have.

In an older-man/younger-woman relationship, the older partner may have advantages arising from both age and gendered social power.

In an older-woman/younger-man relationship, the older woman may have advantages arising from age and experience, while the younger man may retain some advantages associated with gender.

And this is a big reason why viewing them both through different lenses isn't double standards.

Treating two situations differently isn't automatically a double standard. A double standard would be applying inconsistent principles to equivalent situations. If the underlying power dynamics aren't equivalent, it's reasonable to examine them differently

Of course, age gaps aren't necessarily wrong. Nor are they necessarily right (Legality establishes a minimum boundary; it doesn't establish that something is automatically healthy, ethical or free from exploitation) nor are they necessarily bad/abusive/predatory regardless of their length.  However, I still main suspicion on patterned behaviour, i.e. specifically seeking out someone based on advantages/imbalance, particularly if it is a repeated pattern.

 

Well said. I agree.