Is HONESTY still foundational?

[wo****]

During my time within this life and specifically this lifestyle - I have always believed that honesty was a red line, non-negotiable, foundational aspect for ANY type of relationship - in or out of the bedroom. But especially with the person you entrust as your partner, spouse, etc… whatever your arrangement is.

Is that still true in your experience? Does it seem harder to receive from potential contacts? If it is - what changed? When did we got from being a group of people who were seeking the openness to be honest with ourselves and others about our wants, needs, and desires?

Is it a digital world impact? Doesn’t that make it easier to be honest?

Is it *** of being exposed? Cat fished? Taken advantage of?

At what point does that change? Once in a commitment? Once exclusive? When is it expected that there is ONLY 100% honesty?

I have talked to MANY people recently who are dealing with the issue of honesty AND it really got me wondering. I’d love to hear any opinions from you all.

Thanks for taking the time and best wishes to each of you.

[Li****]

Honestly requires trust and so much trust is lost trust. And yes, digital world has made hiding behind the technology very easy. For some it gives them courage to do and they things they would not normally. This unfortunately can and too often is for nefarious purposes.
When these things collide some folks lose trust and faith in honesty and the cycle continues
Not sure what I said flows well, a writer I am not. But I relate to what say and ask when/where did trust and honesty go
This goes hand in hand with transparency and that too seems to be elusive

[Re****]

We're back in the 90's version of the internet where preds prowl dating apps instead of chatrooms now. You still have the same type of catfish/scammers as before but now anyone with a cellphone can be one and for some parts of the world that is a legitimate way to support themselves. Then... there's clout chasing... Some people just want the attention. Until you are living together you cannot trust anyone to be 100% honest. But you can trust yourself, and trust your gut instincts. If it feels off, it is.
Once you're living together, I hate to say it, but downgrade from smart phones to push button phones otherwise you can never truly know what they are doing 24/7.

[ey****]

In ways there's more spaces to talk about kink, fetish, fantasies, bdsm, but for a lot of people it's still something they come to struggle with their own acceptance - some also feel difficult on how to navigate

Like even on sites like this people can be afraid that talking honestly would put another person off.  Often because it has, at some point, put another person off - especially if they've been too honest, too quickly

But like, are people honest in general? Someone asks if you're ok, do you tell the truth or go "fine, and you?" 

[Da****]

Honesty is exactly that but it’s really hard to trust someone when you’ve been let down many times, I’m one of those people who’ve had issues with this

And fundementally, it’s all about trusting the other person so you can see the conundrum.

I think the digital world for all of its benefits has made people too comfortable with lying, talking to multiple people etc. it’s the illusion of choice.

[DarkArts1066]

Honesty will ALWAYS be part of the foundational construct in kink.

There are people who are less honest… concealing relationships, and sometimes even health conditions in order to improve their options.

Rest assured, the truth WILL eventually find you out, if one takes that path.

The longer I have spent around this community, the greater success my b*llsh*t detector has had !

Incidentally, I don’t agree with people asking for “gifts” to prove that a contact is genuine, or redirecting me to a platform or site, which has a ‘shopfront’ or ‘membership fee’ either.

Once you monetise what we do directly, it becomes transactional, -and with that, to some people, that invites ***.

In that eventuality, one might as well engage the services of a prostitute, rather than risk ***. It’s more honest.

Setting out your stall right from day one, arranging an early telephone call -or even video call is a good idea, and being totally honest about your personal status and situation is always the best policy.

Just my personal perspective.

[Qu****]

I believe some of it due to a phenomenon called the "subculture erosion by enthusiast." You can look it up for a more detailed explanation, but as a subculture grows there is a shift of the type of person who joins.

First you have the foundationalists who build it, then enthusiasts who build it higher but don't necessarily know the history or sacrifice that the original group made. Then you have the commercialization of it, where those who can make a profit off of it will maximize it without caring anything about the original subculture. That profit doesn't necessarily have to be monetary, it is often reputation. Then lastly you get the those who just buy into a subculture because it seems to be the in thing.

In a lot of ways we're in that last stage now. People aren't taking classes. They're not engaging with the face to face community, and when they do the voices of the first two groups tend to be drown out by those who can capitalize their reputation.

[De****]

What is a true Kinkster if not someone with the awareness to understand,
the self love to accept themselves and the bravery to show up authentically.

Those who see power in surrendering and those who surrender to power.

There is honesty in that.

[an****]

Is honesty still your/my foundation?

This is a personal question and is not necessarily a community question as much as it applies to each individual and each situation. It depends. And no, I don't like my answer. I wish the answer was yes. It is just complicated.

Honesty doesn't have to be overwhelming or lead to over sharing but tends to start as showing a wound then explaining in so much detail how that wound happened, how to handle it, and then apologize for its existence. Placing the listener in a position of power that may not have balance.

This can create unwanted access to being manipulated or create a disproportionate weight of trust and security in a relationship.

Think of sharing as a scale ⚖️ these must always be balanced. Same balance for positive things and negative things. Relationships require both good and bad from both parties or they become lopsided.

(Side note, it's actually really important to share bad news as much as good news, if you don't share bad news people can decide to avoid you because they think their bad news is going to burden you and your 'perfect' life, it's actually quite odd until you really think about it.)

I teach a rule for new beginnings. This applies to your question about when did it change, and yes the digital world changed the quickness of openness, but also real life conversation has not been taught or practiced for generations. Greetings used to be at every encounter now there are too many faces on the street and too little bandwidth to interact with new random strangers so our non-random strangers become more important than they should, faster than they should.

The rule:
When you meet someone. Only respond in as many words as the total exchanged.

Hi - 1
Good morning - (1+ the total of 1) = 2
How are you (3 🟢)

I am doing well how are you (7 🔴🙅🏽‍♂️)
--paragraph about morning (2432🔴🙅🏽‍♂️)
Doing well, you? (3 🟢)

It's not lying or dishonest to say 'well', even if you just stubbed your toe, you were stuck in traffic, and your cat left a mouse in your shoe. It's establishing gates, and boundaries, and consent, and access to you/them.

If the interaction dies, you invested less than 10 words, you don't have to worry about how your words were misunderstood or further explan or apologize adding more to your word count. It starts slow and grows slowly and balanced. No one has word weapons against you either.

No one gets 100% of you in the first 1000 encounters and you don't deserve anyone else's 100% before the first 1000 encounters.

Online may make it feel safer to share or safer to trust. It is never 'safer' to share, or enter, lopsided relationships or in disproportionate ways. That always ends poorly.

At what point is it 100% honesty? That is individual and situationally dependent. It always depends. If your partner is having a bad day, you share as honestly as you want, but less, if you are having a bad day you share as honestly as you want, but more.

[Ne****]

Honesty, IMO, goes hand in hand with trust. Both are built over time through experience with a person.

The level of honesty you start with is based on your own comfort level. Personally, my profile is pretty direct about who I am, my interests, and what I’m looking for. But the details of who I am come out gradually — through conversation, then actually meeting someone, and eventually building a relationship.

It’s that process of getting to know each other that builds both trust and honesty. You learn what you can share, what you can rely on, and how open you can be with each other.

Will you ever trust someone 100%? Maybe, maybe not. But I certainly hope you do.

[Sm****]

15 hours ago, Quixote_69 said:

I believe some of it due to a phenomenon called the "subculture erosion by enthusiast." You can look it up for a more detailed explanation, but as a subculture grows there is a shift of the type of person who joins.

First you have the foundationalists who build it, then enthusiasts who build it higher but don't necessarily know the history or sacrifice that the original group made. Then you have the commercialization of it, where those who can make a profit off of it will maximize it without caring anything about the original subculture. That profit doesn't necessarily have to be monetary, it is often reputation. Then lastly you get the those who just buy into a subculture because it seems to be the in thing.

In a lot of ways we're in that last stage now. People aren't taking classes. They're not engaging with the face to face community, and when they do the voices of the first two groups tend to be drown out by those who can capitalize their reputation.

I really like what you have to say here. However, reputation can be good or bad. There could be those trying to keep things within the traditional bounds and keep the respect and ethical side going, having a good reputation in the community. Then, there are those whose reputation would be more about ego and what they can gain for themselves.

It is sad, though, the amount of people that have no interest in the lifestyle and history of the community, but want to use the labels to hide their cheating behind. The community aspect is shrinking in many areas; there is no local community aspect to even attend. Subcultures, like many, when they become mainstream or we get a social media/Hollywood version, usually wreak havoc in the overall subculture, as it's no longer the draw by nature but a draw by FOMO.

[Ar****]

I have been at this a while and I use this same thinking for poly responses as well. Crappy people exist in all spaces whether it's kink, swinging poly etc. So in the end, we may want and or want to give honestly but there are loads of people all over who cannot or do not do this.

Trust (I like using the bravings concept) is built over time and a variety of experiences. It's something foundational to how I operate and I will drop people (friends or otherwise) people who violate that.

[TD****]

Absolutely and communication

[Se****]

Interesting reads all of them! I feel honesty suits me best! I offer a question forum to those that return a greeting at some juncture! For myself I feel honesty promotes my values and I can only control myself not others. So from the communication aspects, honesty promotes trust! And to me that is the primary foundation from which to build any type of relationship!

[To****]

For me, honesty is still foundational. Probably more so in this lifestyle than anywhere else.

But I don’t think honesty means telling someone absolutely everything. You’re still allowed to have privacy. The important part is not deliberately hiding something that could change the other person’s choices or the dynamic between you.

Trust is built when your words and actions keep matching over time. Once that starts slipping, it’s very difficult to build anything real, especially in a D/s dynamic where you’re giving someone a certain level of trust and control.

I don’t think honesty suddenly becomes important once you’re exclusive or committed. It should be there from the beginning. Otherwise, what exactly are you building that commitment on?

Even if all you’re looking for is sex, there’s still a level of trust involved. So if trust matters even in something that simple, why would you choose to leave honesty out of a relationship where you are giving someone much more of ourselves?

[Se****]

11 minutes ago, TomWhttt said:

For me, honesty is still foundational. Probably more so in this lifestyle than anywhere else.

But I don’t think honesty means telling someone absolutely everything. You’re still allowed to have privacy. The important part is not deliberately hiding something that could change the other person’s choices or the dynamic between you.

Trust is built when your words and actions keep matching over time. Once that starts slipping, it’s very difficult to build anything real, especially in a D/s dynamic where you’re giving someone a certain level of trust and control.

I don’t think honesty suddenly becomes important once you’re exclusive or committed. It should be there from the beginning. Otherwise, what exactly are you building that commitment on?

Even if all you’re looking for is sex, there’s still a level of trust involved. So if trust matters even in something that simple, why would you choose to leave honesty out of a relationship where you are giving someone much more of ourselves?

Extremely well stated! One doesn’t have to tell someone “ everything “ they know!! Bravo!

[cl****]

100%

[Ladderleadet677]

No what happens is a woman gets a man as a front to a relationship that looks genuine then exploits him and sleeps with as many people as they can behind their back while keeping that person on a fishing line. No wonder she was always hurt or not in the mood cos she was always fucking other men when he weren’t around and now just laughs at it and their kids suffer mentally cos of all the *** and grief she’s caused.

[DarkArts1066]

5 hours ago, Ladderleadet677 said:

No what happens is a woman gets a man as a front to a relationship that looks genuine then exploits him and sleeps with as many people as they can behind their back while keeping that person on a fishing line. No wonder she was always hurt or not in the mood cos she was always fucking other men when he weren’t around and now just laughs at it and their kids suffer mentally cos of all the *** and grief she’s caused.

That sounds like sour g***s, borne from a personal experience to me.
I’m not sure it’s helpful or productive ?

Surely, you would WANT honesty in a relationship, even if you’ve had a poor previous experience ??

If that IS a personal experience of yours, holding on to it can be incredibly damaging to future relationships.

Not everyone is the same, Male - or Female.

[Go****]

Honesty and trustworthiness are extremely rare in today’s age sadly,

[MasterPierce2u]

Wednesday at 06:59 PM, GodMadeMeKinky said:

Honesty and trustworthiness are extremely rare in today’s age sadly,

I agree. In today's hookup culture everything is disposable including relationships. Everyone wants the excitement of a date without the responsibility of a relationship. I'm old school and want a long term partner. Hard to find.