R E S P E C T, Find Out What It Means To, The Community

[AKA_Copper]

We were all new to Fet at some point, so every one of us has felt as though we were standing outside a door we didn’t know how to open. Your experience is nothing new to any of us. In any online community, though, it’s a good idea to find out the social norms before you step into the thick of things. If you don’t, you will knock furniture around and spill a few drinks. I certainly did, and I had to apologise to quite a few people for it. Don’t be like me. Learn the party culture before you throw yourself all over the guests. It’s only respectful.

You say we should engage with and teach every "wanna play" newbie how the community works when they throw the contents of our figurative snack table all over the floor. What you didn’t suggest is that newbies respectfully ask for guidance. Not asking and resenting us for failing to offer is like walking down a street and expecting complete strangers to walk up to you and ask if you know how to get to your destination.

I know many members on  Fet who would help someone who's new to the site, and most of us do it often. The catch? We only do it when asked, and generally when we’ve not been disrespected. Shouting over us or treating us like kink dispensers is a surefire way to lose our generosity.

Politeness is generally the same no matter which community or culture you’re attempting to immerse yourself in, so you'll do well to treat people just by paying attention to the things your mother taught you when you were growing up: Be considerate. Listen to others. Don’t judge. Don’t be entitled. That’s pretty much all you need to know to get along on this site.

When a stranger continually enters our space sea lioning, they aren't being respectful, they aren't being considerate. They are being entitled, and that lack of respect doesn’t engender a desire to give you our time. For that, you need to demonstrate a desire to learn, and squashing everyone elses voices is not a desire to learn, but to disrespect.

Fet has hundreds of resources. Literally hundreds when you consider how many frequent the chat rooms and post in the forums. You have all you need from the day you sign up but the truth is most people don’t want to learn how this community works. They want effort-free connections, and getting treated like kink dispensers all day every day eventually gets boring, then annoying, and then, a year or so in, frustrating as hell.

Mentorship is earned. It’s too time-consuming to give away to three new people a day. You’re not entitled to our time, and while new people do keep the site alive, entitlement kills the fun one day at a time. We aren’t trying to be scary or rude or cliquey. We’re just trying to stretch our resources as far as they will go, and pumping them into sea lions isn't productive.

We are willing to engage, communicate, guide. We just aren’t willing to do that with impolite people.

You say we can’t expect to receive respect without giving respect. This is true, but you forgot to acknowledge that an inability to see others points of views is disrespectful, so you can’t expect to receive our respect in response.

[ge****]

Hear, hear 👏👏

I'd add to that that when you do ask for advice at least listen, even if you're not prepared to act because you don't value the advice given - the number of times I see threads started asking for advice for the OP never to return to them or acknowledge the responses or act on them, makes you wonder why they asked in the first place, especially when the weight of the responses are similar.

[AKA_Copper]

7 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

Hear, hear 👏👏

I'd add to that that when you do ask for advice at least listen, even if you're not prepared to act because you don't value the advice given - the number of times I see threads started asking for advice for the OP never to return to them or acknowledge the responses or act on them, makes you wonder why they asked in the first place, especially when the weight of the responses are similar.

A thank you never goes amiss either

[Deleted Member]

Love this.. beautifully put x

[ey****]

I have so many thoughts I'm afraid I'll be a word salad.  

But - some folk talk about the need for tighter vetting in the community but then also talk about being too hard on giving people a chance - and I'm never sure which it is.

But, on that.  Particularly online there are a lot of newbies.  A *lot* of newbies.  It's not possible to micromanage everyone's learning and development when, actually, most people don't want this anyway.  They either think they're the finished product and should be given a chance, or, "looking for someone to show me the ropes" when by 'someone' they mean someone they find attractive who will also be in a romantic relationship AND who will take on most of the labour for the other persons growth and learning.    I'm not sure why more people don't fawn at such a good deal.

Of course. We were all new once and most probably made some form of faux pos and this is then something where someone at the back will shout "were you not new once?" (as if they weren't also new once) and yes - and the way people separated me from those who had no intention of learning and just wanting a quick shag is me showing some initiative in taking responsibility for my own learning and understanding.

You can lead someone to a site full of resources but can't make them read. You can't point people to munches or events but can't make them attend. (Mind, nor should you - this isn't what consent looks like and they should only do so when it feels good and ready for them.  Them not wishing to attend a munch within a week of declaring an interest for kink doesn't make them a fake.  It means there's a lot to take in.)

I've spoke before of someone I know who tried to mother hen a lot of newbies (she currently has 12 listed relationships on fetlife - though many of these have long since left that relationship) and what would happen is she would try to take on each latest lost soul and the more and more she took on the less time she had for, y'know, her existing subs - and some of these lost souls were really time consuming, emotionally draining and unwilling to put in effort themselves (which is why no one else wanted the mental load of dealing with them) 
The plus side of all this - is it serves as a clear warning why trying to help everyone is a bad idea - for both your own health and sanity and others you actually can make time for. Also, being the 14th relationship with someone isn't going to get the time you want anyway.

One thing also. I like newbies coming to the forums and asking questions as this gives potential for the wisdom of the crowd (even if some of the crowd really aint that wise. But mixed opinions are good) and people to reply when they can.  Some of these questions might be "How do I find someone eeeet sooooo haaaaaaaaaard" from someone who has been on the site for a week and sent 439 messages (if I can see that, so can your targets) who hasn't even bothered to practice taking selfies, let alone fill out a profile.  (Like, you don't need war and peace.  And you don't need to go to ***Miles sit on a throne and get shot by a pro photographer.  Just y'know, practice with angles of your phone so you don't look like a thumb) 

But also sometimes a newbie comes on and it's "do we have to have that same fucking question agaiiiiiiiiin?" because they haven't scrolled down three posts on the forum to see if it's been asked, let alone hit search.

Like, there's so much info already there. Questions already asked.  Read and learn from what is there and then ask the questions you couldn't see.  Annnnnnnd. Accept the answers might not be the ones you wanted to hear (Spoiler: there are no Mistresses sitting around in their fully stocked dungeon sat in leather and twiddling with their strap on waiting for a new guy they can do all their fetishes for.) but learn and come back and 

I dunno

it's better to be seen as someone who is a positive person, or helpful, or knowledgeable, or kind

Cos then. Bam. Suddenly a convo going on and the next thing you know you meet for coffee, she wiggles her toes and then goes "go on then" 

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, CopperKnob said:

We are willing to engage, communicate, guide. We just aren’t willing to do that with impolite people.

You say we can’t expect to receive respect without giving respect. This is true, but you forgot to acknowledge that an inability to see others points of views is disrespectful, so you can’t expect to receive our respect in response.

I find it difficult to unpick and make sense of these types of posts (and there is many). I'm willing to concede this may be perhaps be my failure to comprehend the true sentiment or language.

Who is "we" ? Anyone that has been around for "x" time, x = ?

Who is "you" ? Anyone that had been around for "y" time, y = what 5 mins? 1 week? 1 month? myself?

Re the being impolite thing, anyone can be impolite, new/experienced, young/old, established/not established, popular/unpopular.

[AKA_Copper]

8 minutes ago, Shirt-n-Tie-Boy said:

I find it difficult to unpick and make sense of these types of posts (and there is many). I'm willing to concede this may be perhaps be my failure to comprehend the true sentiment or language.

Who is "we" ? Anyone that has been around for "x" time, x = ?

Who is "you" ? Anyone that had been around for "y" time, y = what 5 mins? 1 week? 1 month? myself?

Re the being impolite thing, anyone can be impolite, new/experienced, young/old, established/not established, popular/unpopular.

'We' anyone who takes the time to respond diplomatically, empathetically and knowledgeably to questions, queries, comments, statements etc etc
'You' clearly outlined in the OP
'Re the being impolite' at no point did I mention a particular demographic.

[Deleted Member]

2 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

'Re the being impolite' at no point did I mention a particular demographic.

Agreed/acknowledged you did not. I just have a habit of throwing in such observations for purpose of balance. Seemed a prudent point to make is all.

[Catsailor69]

CK you did it again! Spot on!
There does seem to be many whom being “online” loses all rationale of being real too.

The biggest thing I see these days online is the number of people who forget that there are many of us on the site, real and honest. I have come to view many things as a reminder to THINK!

The openness of the online access and availability of others to chat with and get to know, also brings with it many who may not be honest and seeking a connection sincerely. When I begin speaking with someone new, I try to understand and perceive their motivation as quickly as possible.

That has seemed to help me. The community of this lifestyle, both here in the US and around the world, all seem to be seeking those rare connections with the lifestyle dynamic. I too, find it difficult to act toward or be acted upon as anything other than a person, flesh and ***, with feelings and a brain.

I am extremely thankful for those who help us all to grow and understand. Who are polite and assistance when we need it. Taking a break once in a while can be helpful. Grounding ourselves in reality makes this a great site to return to.

Thank you for making this post. Hopefully some will be reminded of the things you have mentioned. We’re here hopefully to build community.

[AKA_Copper]

I feel that when people are starting threads/commenting on threads that often there are some who feel the need to either undermine others, dimimish others experiences and just be plain rude.
To post on the forums often puts people in *** situations, we saw that just yesterday on the biology of sex post where a comment literally said, this will place a target on my back.
The upshot of it is is that, people then don't have the confidence to post. Just yesterday someone msg'd me asking something because they lacked the confidence to use the forums as they're designed to be used. They aren't the first and they won't be the last I'm sure.
The 'you' in the OP don't just ruin it for others though, they ruin things for themselves because all comments unless removed by Mods are viewable on their profiles. They may wish to think on that

[Catsailor69]

18 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

I feel that when people are starting threads/commenting on threads that often there are some who feel the need to either undermine others, dimimish others experiences and just be plain rude.
To post on the forums often puts people in *** situations, we saw that just yesterday on the biology of sex post where a comment literally said, this will place a target on my back.
The upshot of it is is that, people then don't have the confidence to post. Just yesterday someone msg'd me asking something because they lacked the confidence to use the forums as they're designed to be used. They aren't the first and they won't be the last I'm sure.
The 'you' in the OP don't just ruin it for others though, they ruin things for themselves because all comments unless removed by Mods are viewable on their profiles. They may wish to think on that

I completely agree. I honestly don’t care what “target” it may put on my back.

I speak and reply here on the posts sincerely and in my own honesty. It’s gotten me some corrections and some objections. All are taken into consideration but, I’m still going to be me. Lol

[Deleted Member]

Respect, one of the many words that has become meaningless due to the many definitions out there. What is considered respectful to one person is disrespectful to another. We live in a time where everyone does what they want, no one does what they have to do, and everyone participates. With all due respect, I will not take a chick that has just hatched, has the school desk still hanging on its ass and has no work or life experiences at hand to first explain to him the meaning of the word respect.

[AKA_Copper]

11 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Respect, one of the many words that has become meaningless due to the many definitions out there. What is considered respectful to one person is disrespectful to another. We live in a time where everyone does what they want, no one does what they have to do, and everyone participates. With all due respect, I will not take a chick that has just hatched, has the school desk still hanging on its ass and has no work or life experiences at hand to first explain to him the meaning of the word respect.

I think you've evidenced how disrespectful comments can be

[AKA_Copper]

52 minutes ago, Catsailor69 said:

I completely agree. I honestly don’t care what “target” it may put on my back.

I speak and reply here on the posts sincerely and in my own honesty. It’s gotten me some corrections and some objections. All are taken into consideration but, I’m still going to be me. Lol

And that's fair isn't it? Thats how we as individuals learn and grow and communities improve? It's the response to that tha really counts

[Catsailor69]

17 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

And that's fair isn't it? Thats how we as individuals learn and grow and communities improve? It's the response to that tha really counts

I believe it can be fair. Done respectfully and with empathy for how it may be perceived. I do not try to target anyone or to be malicious in any way to others.
I do try to stay in focus of the OP for a thread and to add to it with questions or comments.

My intention is always to add to and encourage others. To share from experience and in safe, positive ways with others.

[Deleted Member]

30 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

I think you've evidenced how disrespectful comments can be

Maybe, maybe not. However, nobody likes lies but the truth should not be told. I have exercised my right to free s***ch, and noted my observations, and stated in all honesty that I will not act as a mentor or teacher. I think that's respectful, you call that disrespectful. We can disagree, that's okay.

[ey****]

44 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

And that's fair isn't it? Thats how we as individuals learn and grow and communities improve? It's the response to that tha really counts

I think it's getting the right balance

between saying what (you feel) is right regardless of the audience

but

being aware there is an audience who will draw perspectives on you from that.

And people might have their prejudices which isn't always fair (I'm aware of some of the things I've been called behind my back by some folk) but then the right people gravitate (I also know nice things people have said when I wasn't listening) 

[AKA_Copper]

1 minute ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I think it's getting the right balance

between saying what (you feel) is right regardless of the audience

but

being aware there is an audience who will draw perspectives on you from that.

And people might have their prejudices which isn't always fair (I'm aware of some of the things I've been called behind my back by some folk) but then the right people gravitate (I also know nice things people have said when I wasn't listening) 

Yeah, definitely. We all see through tinted glasses

[Catsailor69]

10 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I think it's getting the right balance

between saying what (you feel) is right regardless of the audience

but

being aware there is an audience who will draw perspectives on you from that.

And people might have their prejudices which isn't always fair (I'm aware of some of the things I've been called behind my back by some folk) but then the right people gravitate (I also know nice things people have said when I wasn't listening) 

There are several here, I honestly do not know how you have the time to comment and post so much. It’s most helpful and appreciated for all that you do. CK, gemini_man and others are hugely helpful to the site.

[ge****]

7 minutes ago, Catsailor69 said:

There are several here, I honestly do not know how you have the time to comment and post so much. It’s most helpful and appreciated for all that you do. CK, gemini_man and others are hugely helpful to the site.

Thank you, am genuinely touched you think so - I'm not always right or helpful though, just say what I think in response to the subject at hand and enjoy discussing/debating these things - but ultimately a community such as this is not made by individuals but the people that make it whag it is as a whole - regardless of whether I agree with them or not.

[ey****]

20 minutes ago, Catsailor69 said:

I honestly do not know how you have the time to comment and post so much

I don't sleep

Well. I do. But, I dunno - I probably should rest more

I'm fortunate enough to be working from home at the minute which, well, I never realised how much time that gives you.   So I can literally by typing up on this, or any other site, up to my first meeting of the day and start up again in lunch breaks or outside of any core time - providing, of course, I do my work and make up the hours (which of course I do - I'm not daft enough to risk my job/income)

And while I do watch TV and play video games (albeit, not for a while) I do find it more enriching to be doing different things online or on my computer.   

But, I do rest obviously - I'll be absent a few days (which might please some or disappoint others) cos I've got a few days play and party planned - I sadly cannot post the pictures of the time on this site - but, well, I doubt I'd be able to contribute so much on kink forums if I didn't occasionally indulge  

[ma****]

This is a great post and I mostly agree with you.

However, we must be aware of the "mentors" who expect their mentee to obey and to agree to everything the mentor says. A mentorship is not a D/s dynamic. A Mentor should guide and help the mentee in becoming who they are; a Mentor might offer different perspectives to a situation, but shouldn't *** the mentee in only considering the Mentor's perspective. A Mentor is not there to give tasks or be disrespecful when the mentee disagree with the Mentor or if the mentee refuses to do something the Mentor requests. When those situations happen, those are huge red flags and it makes me think that some "Mentors" aren't there to support, guide or help someone.

[AKA_Copper]

8 minutes ago, maryioni said:

This is a great post and I mostly agree with you.

However, we must be aware of the "mentors" who expect their mentee to obey and to agree to everything the mentor says. A mentorship is not a D/s dynamic. A Mentor should guide and help the mentee in becoming who they are; a Mentor might offer different perspectives to a situation, but shouldn't *** the mentee in only considering the Mentor's perspective. A Mentor is not there to give tasks or be disrespecful when the mentee disagree with the Mentor or if the mentee refuses to do something the Mentor requests. When those situations happen, those are huge red flags and it makes me think that some "Mentors" aren't there to support, guide or help someone.

I agree, if it's one person mentoring an individual then that would clearly be worrisome.
I think what I was trying to refer to (and worded a little badly) when we here in Fet, as a community offer advice/information/guidance, that kind of mentorship.

[ey****]

On 7/7/2022 at 5:35 PM, maryioni said:

However, we must be aware of the "mentors" who expect their mentee to obey and to agree to everything the mentor says.

I generally feel a lot of the concept of one-on-one mentorship is largely redundant and less appropriate in the current landscape unless, literally, you know someone who is an expert in everything you want to learn.

Traditional mentorship was more appropriate when info wasn't so widespread and communities weren't so accessible - but now you look back and between a mask for *** in some cases, they also were a cycle of repetitive info, which wasn't always appropriate and made people think kink was something passed through generations through the ages when the original concept of mentorship is only really around 50 years old and relevant to the more 'family' structure