Consent. Closure. No means NO!!! Slight trigger warning.

[Ju****]

Okay  ive wrote this on my life of contradiction post.. but due to its nature and content its maybe worth its own post as its touching on very important and valid topics about consent and boundaries in the real world with vanilla folk who dont seem to understand. 

 

 

 

Its long please bare with me. 

 

I know i have a long way to go and past behaviours are hard to shrug off. 

Il explain whats happened. 

 

 

Last night i went out with the gay bestie. It was gay pride here in belfast. We had a fab day.

 

Come evening time all the gay bars and clubs were packed out thousands of people.

So we went to a local rock bar we frequent. 

 

It was interesting and ugh worthy as when we got there the guy who previously ghosted me 

(If you follow my posts youll know we dated a while and he met my kids and we were physical etc then he dropped off face of the earth)

Anyway he was there. His big wide ginger friend whos always a gent was there and a lady with blue hair i get on with. Alls ok (peoples descriptions are important for this).

 

Ghoster boy avoided me like the plague but his ginger mate was just as nice as ever chatting to me and my friends. The night was going great and well and everyone was merry.

I was headed upstairs to the club bit to find a friend.

Ginger mate was by the door and asked where i was going.  Told him to find my chum, asked if he was headed up too and he said sure. 

All good and well he walked about with me helping me find my friend but to no avail. So we stayed up there and just danced as it was an 80s 90s cheese night. 

 

I had a pint in each hand and was dancing away.

Ginger started to move closer and casually touch my back. I was sort of shrugging it off until he was doing it with a sort of pull close towards him. He was getting close to my face. 

I was a little uncomfy so i started to turn my face away and sip my beer.

He bumped into me and i spilled most of it around myself and down his arm.

 

So i was like shit sorry and he was leaning in to chat. I was like this is fine yeh whatever. But then he tried to kiss me.

 

I instantly backed off and laughed. Said Ginger, what are you doing..?

He said "kiss me".

I laughed and said sorry man i dont see you like that. 

He leaned in again.. mouth and all open. I stood back and laughed again a bit more nervously this time. 

He said whats wrong i said i didnt see him like that and he said, so its only a kiss.

At this stage i then said sorry Ginger i have a boyfriend. 

He put his hands up as if backing off and apologising and i laughed it off and said its ok dont worry. 

 

Then... he leans in AGAIN. I say to him yo man what did i just tell you. I have a boyfriend.

He said well where is he. I said at home. 

He said.. so hes not here. I said no.

 

Now i dont know what kind of switch flipped in his head but he seen this as some form of green light to continue to press me to kiss him. 

I said no 5 times by this stage and kept using the back of my wrist against his chest to keep distance between he and i.

He told me it was ok and didnt matter cus my boyfriend wasnt there. Twice again i said no. 

By this stage he was leaning in and i began to feel a bit panicky. 

I began to back away anf continue to dance as if i was not aware of what he was trying, but kept my pint to my face so he couldn't get close.

He then used this as a means to go ahead and start to kiss my cheek and neck. 

I began pushing him away saying no again a further 3 times and backing away. 

I noticed we had moved back by like 5 or 6 feet. Thats how much he was pushing towards me.

He asked me about 5 times in a row

Kiss me kiss me kiss me over and over. 

I got flustered and tried to pinch the lady beside me to get her eye contact for attention but he stood between us. It wasnt easy to do anyway with a pint in hand. 

I tried to grab a passing womans eye as she passed but she was focussed where she was walking and didnt look at me.

By this stage i was backed up against a wall.

Him still trying and i kept saying no over and over.

Now hes like 6ft 4 very vert heavy built man and very wide and heavy. I felt trapped and every no i said from here on out... he groped my ass and thighs pulling me in.

I gave one big shove to the chest and said NO.  Told him i was off to fond my friend and he said.. aye sure you are.

But i literally ran off.

I seen his blue hair female friend and i pulled her  over and said about what happened but she shushed me.

Next thing Ginger walks over and stands on one side me (left) and puts his hand around the back of my neck and squeezes it very hard for 10 seconds. But it felt like forever.  I tried not to cry and she could see this. 

So she told him to bugger off so we could "girl talk". I offloaded the whole thing and told her this wasnt ok. I was triggered. My boundaries and consent was ignored and my relationship disrespected. And my body touched when it shouldn't have been. I felt the neck squeeze was a warning to shut up. She noticed him do this to me. 

 

She calmed me down and asked if i wanted to sit with her to be safe. I said no its ok and went out for fresh air and the min i seen gay bestie i broke down crying at the table. I sobbed through ths story again... and my mate was ready to break his legs. I told him not to interfere cus the moment hes physical hes in the wrong, not ginger.

 

But then in typical Jen fashion. I began blaming myself. And excusing Ginger as down to being drunk and usually a gent. My friend was mad at me for this. Blaming myself. 

 

I tried to get it out if my system and i said.. im speaking to Ghoster boy, he needs to know what his friend did to me.

So i pulled him.out of the bar to sit and tell him. 

He listened and kinda shrugged me off. Cus he was trying to play the dick head coward he wants me.to think he is. 

I broke down and asked him why he hates me.and why his friend has ***ed me in this way.

That just because i am in an open relationship.. and have history with Ghoster.. Ginger shouldnt have tried to take advantage of me nor disrespect my boundaries. 

Ghoster listened. And we had a big heart to heart about all the.problems as to why we didnt work. 

But i kept in mind hel never accept me as i am and that i cant be with him 

But he was so wasted he asked me to take him home. So i did. Im not heartless and wanted to ensure he was ok

 

But ofcourse he kissed me half way home. We held hands.. mostly so he didnt fall over.. and i got him.home ok. 

 

But naturally one thing led to another and we slept together again.

But thats when that switch flipped in my head. 

 

I was selfish. I put me first.

I had a traumatic experience at the hands of his friend. Ghoster was safe. I felt safe. But i took advantage of the come onto me he was doing as a way to find comfort and release. 

It threw  me back to being 18 and attacked and my whore days that followed. I felt dirty and objectified. So i literally used the sex chance to have my release. Take out my frustrations and have control over my body and decisions. I was consenting with Ghoster. He was familiar. 

 

So as selfish as i was.. i "got mine" got dressed and went to the bathroom. 

Left him alone in this room naked and snoring. 

I slept on the sofa until next morning where i could leave and get to my friends house. 

 

I finally felt clean again. That i had done what i wanted. That satisfied  me. I didnt use him. We used eachother in way. Nothing toxic about it.

But the sex for comfort. And the admittance of the ghosting. I felt at peace. I could walk away from  him.

No more upset or anger. No more *** or lust or wanting answers. 

I bid him goodbye when he got up the next morning and i closed that door behind me.

That'll be that on Ghosters chapter. 

While i feel a bit dirty and like im letting myself down for going back to the bed of someone who hurt me so, i needed it. It has helped me.move on a bit. 

He saved me from further altercation last night and gave me a good time. He knows without saying that it wont happen again.  And hes aware his mate isnt to come within 10 feet of me again. 

 

I am being urged to go to the police about the incident with Ginger. Maybe they can review cctv footage and soemthing be done about it. 

 

 

In all i told this story for a number of reasons. 

 

1. Never ever allow someone to break your boundaries. 

2. Never ever allow someone to touch your body without your consent.. or continue to do so.

Discreetly and if safe and possible try to find help where u can..pretend to smile so they suspect nothing. 

3. Getting closure from someone or soemthing isny always a bad thing. It can happen at any time. For me this whole thing brought on the confrontation to talk and silver lining is that closure and answers. 

4. If you want need and both consent.. find that comfort and closure in what ever way you want. Dont be ashamed and dont regret it. Everything  happens for a reason. 

 

5. Never ever feel like you are rhe problem for someone not listening to you. ENM poly or even a slut.. still doesnt give anyone the right to *** you into anything against your will. Just because you have slept with someone they know.. even if in a relationship, doesnt give them that right to be entitled. 

 

6. Never trust anyone alone. Sad to even say that but  this man was always a gent . I never ever expected him to be capable of such a thing. I thought he was my friend. Always be apprehensive. Especially when drinking. Stay public and dont go anywhere  alone. Stay with someone you know and trust.  And please dont be afraid to report any harassment someone gives you. No matter how much you feel they deserve a second chance.  They could ruin someones life if it happened again and you could have had the power to prevent it by speaking up.

 

I am ok. I dont need or want apologies or sympathy. I stood my ground and found comfort in that old flame. Took my closure and put the whole thing to bed. 

The point is i repeated my after thoughts and behaviour in taking sex as a release. As a comfort when i felt unworthy and dirty. But this time i have no shame for it and if someone wants to shame me (in my real life) il  close the door on them just as i did with Ghoster 

[Deleted Member]

Good for you

[Th****]

thats sexual *** Jen, he needs reporting to the police as a sexual predator, most bars and clubs have cameras so there will be evidence ...

also you should have kneed him in the balls, and shouted I SAID NO

[Chloebear]

21 minutes ago, TheBodyguard said:

thats sexual *** Jen, he needs reporting to the police as a sexual predator, most bars and clubs have cameras so there will be evidence ...

also you should have kneed him in the balls, and shouted I SAID NO

If you knee them in nuts, you’ve just ***ed them…. Hard to say that but it is what the Police will say because they look at proportionate ***. Say something loudly. They mostly don’t want to attract attention. It’s always worth reporting, about 90% plus go unreported, but sadly many won’t be pursued, conviction rates are very low. I have reported in the past to prevent harm to others, even where I might not have done it for me.

[AKA_Copper]

And 2 comments in we have the personal responsibilty crowd saying "you should have" Suggesting physical ***, suggesting that they go to the Police 🙄
There are so many reasons why those that experience sexual *** don't. I'm not *** Jens post explaining even some of them. The info is widely available on the internet if anyonr chooses to educate themselves.
.
Jen, i've said it before and I'll say it again, you're a blinking strong individual. Not only with regards to experiences but also how you reflect and share your thoughts

[Chloebear]

Literally know Jen. She knows me. Bg also knows Jen. Both posts are out of concern and protection, not anything else you have misconstrued.

The info is there for general consumption tbh. There are valid reasons to go to the police… sex offenders tend to escalate in what they do.

I understand why someone might not be able to. Personal experience of dv and sexual ***. I did go to the police. It was hard… too hard mentally, although they had a special unit and were kind. I am *** I guess. I’m being open about something I hold back on to encourage you not to wade in and make assumptions about the experience of others on here. Too many have been in the same boat. We are not on opposing sides.

[Vi****]

4 hours ago, Bb731 said:

 

I'm glad you got the closure you needed jen from ghosted. I'm angry at reading what you went through with ginger. Shocking that in a busy place full of people he kept on forcing himself onto you, I shudder to think what he'd do of you were alone!! He ignored your no's time and time again then to squeeze your neck as a warning too, despicable he knew exactly what he was doing. Scary as hell. 

Isn't it interesting that we instantly look to blame ourselves when we've been subjected to an ***, be assured you have no blame in this at all. Sending you love my friend xxx

Edited August 1, 2022 by Vic1077
Didn't mean to quote this part

[Th****]

Rules on self defence are simple there is only 1 rule

you can do what is reasonable and practicable to defend yourself or your property, this includes persons at your property that are under duress, or attack.

 

simply put ladies, yes you can knee a guy in the balls if he won't accept that you've told him no

[Th****]

the above piece of legal legislation is the same rule all police, security, door staff, bodyguards use in the uk, it is their for your protection.

in the OP's defence she repeatedly told him no, repeatedly backed away, and tried to shield herself with her pint glass, she would have every right in the eyes of the law to use physical means to deter the assailant and defend herself.

Alos note: anybody charged/arrested for sexual *** will be placed immediately on the sex offenders register by the police, this may be for a limited period, which I think is still 12 months if they are not successfully convicted.

As I said before all clubs, and pubs have cameras, as its a local authority requirement, and forms part of the liquor licence. the police have full unrestricted access to this equipment, and the equipment must hold the images for 28 days.

 

Never be afraid to defend yourselves, you have every right too. This could have escalated Into something far more dangerous, as the perpetrator is already comfortable with using *** to get what he wants, and to silence a victim.

Be assured Jen Jen you did nothing wrong. 

[Ju****]

Yes i know Chloe and bg in real life so i can kind of hear their comments in the way they are intended. 

 

I can also see Ck point of view too. On the 'should have' part. 

 

I am of the opinion that no... *** is not and never will be the answer.

 

As i mentioned by best mate was so angry he wanted to confront him 

I said no because it is true... the second you use physical ***.. youre wrong. In besties case anyway.. 

 

I know i used *** in the means of distancing him from my body. I didnt strike him but a wrist contact against his chest with continuous pressure to keep him away. Until that shove and a shout of No. 

 

But while i tried yelling No a ton of time even at the end the loudest one... it was a loud club. Not many people would have been able to hear.

But he definately did.

 

Thats my point too. It was unexpected and completely made panic as i somewhat trusted this person tho ive only known them 6 months. That is my error.

He'll not be near me again. 

I will call the club to look into it. And see if they have caught it and then inform them il be calling the police. 

 

And to agree with chloe.. the thought and idea of reporting him is terrifying me.

Not only because i think too much for others than myself , i am down the train of thinking *il* be ruining his life.. if i speak up rather than putting myself first for justice. 

But i know this train of thought is wrong. I cant let him away with it even tho nothing else happened he should at least be warned. 

 

But it also worries me that i have friends within his circle. I dont want to lose those people or start a local war between people as its a very small community and close knit part of town and bar regulars. I dont want to be anyones gossip.

But again hes not worth me saving my sorrows for. I know i need to act. 

 

It just should never have happened

[Ju****]

2 minutes ago, TheBodyguard said:

the above piece of legal legislation is the same rule all police, security, door staff, bodyguards use in the uk, it is their for your protection.

in the OP's defence she repeatedly told him no, repeatedly backed away, and tried to shield herself with her pint glass, she would have every right in the eyes of the law to use physical means to deter the assailant and defend herself.

Alos note: anybody charged/arrested for sexual *** will be placed immediately on the sex offenders register by the police, this may be for a limited period, which I think is still 12 months if they are not successfully convicted.

As I said before all clubs, and pubs have cameras, as its a local authority requirement, and forms part of the liquor licence. the police have full unrestricted access to this equipment, and the equipment must hold the images for 28 days.

 

Never be afraid to defend yourselves, you have every right too. This could have escalated Into something far more dangerous, as the perpetrator is already comfortable with using *** to get what he wants, and to silence a victim.

Be assured Jen Jen you did nothing wrong. 

I dont think or feel i did anything wrong. I know i didnt give him those signals or lead him on. As i said he knows i was involved with his mate and havr never shown Ginger any interst in the slightest. He was chancing it because his mate wasnt there.

Once i found his mate... ginger stayed away. It speaks volumes.

He did give me a warning but can play that off as playful but it did hurt my neck. The lady i spoke to see it happen. 

As she was infront of me.

 

It also was concerning that he was happy enough to back off when he knew i had a boyfriend... UNTIL he knew my boyfriend wasnt at the bar... then he persisted. He knew i was alone. But i got away from him. 

 

Im ok now but if i ever come across him again.. reporting him or not.. il be making a scene of tellimg him to stay the fuck away from me and i dont care who hears it.

[Ju****]

3 hours ago, Vic1077 said:

I'm glad you got the closure you needed jen from ghosted. I'm angry at reading what you went through with ginger. Shocking that in a busy place full of people he kept on forcing himself onto you, I shudder to think what he'd do of you were alone!! He ignored your no's time and time again then to squeeze your neck as a warning too, despicable he knew exactly what he was doing. Scary as hell. 

Isn't it interesting that we instantly look to blame ourselves when we've been subjected to an ***, be assured you have no blame in this at all. Sending you love my friend xxx

Yes i always blame myself for the bad things that happen to me.. even if someone else is at fault. Ive just been raised that way. 

My best mate got ***ed that i was excusing him.. as drunk but also made me aware he wasnt mad at me.. just how the situation made me feel. 

 

I know it was wrong to fall into the bed of someone who ghosted me. I did need that closure. I craved the physical touch and i used sex as a means to vent my frustrations and upset of what had happened. Ghoster was aware n consenting of anything physical he and i did. 

It was my way of coping. Possibly a message to Ginger if he hears i went home with his mate... that i had a choice.. and it definately wasnt and never will be him. 

The closure and ability to walk with my head high and a bit of satisfaction.. and having taken my frustrations out during a rough session (😅) did help me. If i hadnt.. i would have taken that anger and tension out on myself mentally and *** myself for days. 

It had been scary and unexpected. And i made it clear that just because i am in an open thing and involved with ghoster.. that doesnt make me a free for all. For ginger or anyone else who doesnt think i have boundaries and a choice of who comes near me. 

 

It was also an unpleasant conversation to have to tell my partner...

Oh a ghosters mate assulted me like this this and this. 

I reacted badly and went home to sleep with ghoster as a means to release my ***. 

Ive a very loving and understanding partner. Who was just glad i was safe and able to have some comfort in ghoster after what  ginger did and they support me 100%. Im grateful for that. But i did feel bad for "poor" choices. But alls ok now.

the worst is over.

[Chloebear]

It is a shock, absolutely…. And you have a bit of time to breathe and gather. Bottom line, he was in the wrong. I find people outside of this community don’t treat consent with the same level of respect we do…. You could have been cracking on to him all night and then said no and it would have been the same case honestly. That he did it without any indication of interest just emphasises his intent from the offset. Hope you’re okay anyway, it is very jarring xx

[DarkArts1066]

9 hours ago, TheBodyguard said:

thats sexual *** Jen, he needs reporting to the police as a sexual predator, most bars and clubs have cameras so there will be evidence ...

also you should have kneed him in the balls, and shouted I SAID NO

I’ve been a PPO for 27 years now, and the advice you have given about kneeing him is massively flawed. Whilst I agree 100% with reporting, and securing CCTV as soon as possible, (we all know what happens to that if the club wants to protect its integrity) There were other avenues available to secure safety.
I would never advise countering an *** with another *** - unless there is a ‘threat to life’ - and then it needs to be on a single strike basis - otherwise you’ll be the one getting nicked.
Reasonable - Proportionate - Justified.

Given that “Ginger” is 6’4”, and was aggressive in his approach (the neck hold in particular) any physical resistance would likely have been futile, and exacerbated the situation.
If you’ve ever actually tried to accurately knee a guy in the cluster, you’ll know how difficult it is to get it right.

This guy is a sexual predator. That’s not my best guess - it’s profiling, with 27 years worth of experience. I used to work for a while in the fashion industry, looking after fashion models for fashion houses - so I understand what sexual predators look like, and their behaviours.

I know the moment has probably passed now Jen, but - God forbid that something like that should ever happen again, please report immediately - and rationally, to anyone and everyone who will listen. Door Staff, Owner, Police, Licensing. And any else who might be able to help. Witnesses are important too.
Stay safe.

[Deleted Member]

There are so many thing I wanted to point out about the faulty instinctions of how to handle someone pushing boundaries. Mainly because of the physical power gap between aggressor and their target. There is a common misconception of avoiding conflict by not being rude will be safer than to increasing the tension to making it crystal clear you want someone back off. Regardless of size and circumstance, it is better to give intimidating reactions than none confrontational, passive reactions they could courage to push further.


"He leaned in again.. mouth and all open. I stood back and laughed again a bit more nervously this time. "
-Don't ever try to not making looking awkward or being polite to someone pushing boundaries.

"At this stage i then said sorry Ginger i have a boyfriend. "
You don't need to have a boyfriend for him to back off when you have been already rejected his advange just a second ago. Just say "I said NO!". Be firm and stood up your ground. Do not come up with that if you really have a friend. You don't need to be. 

"He said well where is he. I said at home. "
None of your concern! Do not perputuate any questioning you are not supposed to need to. Having boyfriend as the reason of turning down an advance will only lead to find encourage to pushing it further. As if they think you find them attractive and would have say but it is only because you are not available rather than clearly not interested. It can fed up the delusion. 

"I began pushing him away saying no again a further 3 times and backing away." 
Don't just tell. At first you reject in a formal way, at second advance say "I SAID NO!!!".
Be loud and it will not only make it clear to not only him but also make it clear to anyone around.

"Kiss me kiss me kiss me over and over. "
As you show no reaction that could lead him to being intimated of going further. No consequence, no public shaming. Nothing happens other than hearing "no" in a ton of voice no one else hear. 

"I tried to grab a passing womans eye as she passed but she was focussed where she was walking and didnt look at me."
Never count on strangers takin hint and presumed to be in a unfrontional stage. People are not always paying attention to their surrodinging. Use your voice, be loud as much as you can while saying "NO! GET AWAY!!". To the point of screaming if it still keeps going. That will lead everyone stare off and he will be dumb founded and getting embrassed in a spotlight.

"Him still trying and i kept saying no over and over."
As he is still being able to keep going for no consequences. Not because he does not know he is making you comfortable but just there is no consequence no matter what he does. Portraying you as an easy target that lead no consequence regardless of how much discomfort he does cause. 

"Now hes like 6ft 4 very vert heavy built man and very wide and heavy. I felt trapped and every no i said from here on out... he groped my ass and thighs pulling me in."
Regardless of his size or who it is, it will escalate if it lead no emotion other than *** and panic. You are not doing any good by avoiding conflict for your safety. Avoiding conflict as a reaction to physical *** is rather making them more tended to escalate, not the other way around. There needs to be penalty. A consequence of any sort making them freak out. Preferably something unpredictable. Whether it is playing crazy, making a sudden loud noise or anything make them dumb founded without physically engaging.

"Next thing Ginger walks over and stands on one side me (left) and puts his hand around the back of my neck and squeezes it very hard for 10 seconds."
It just level up as it expected without any penalty with previous physical ***s. Not to mention the confirmion that he know what he is doing not because of not taking the hint but just because the lack of consequence gave him the impression that he can get away with your none confrontational reactions. Portraying you as a some sort of safe prey.

"So she told him to bugger off so we could 'girl talk'."
That is what puts him off. Not trying to brush it off. Being told to fuck off. Not being told no over and over again without any consequences.

Nothing encouraging,  nothing intimidating. Just being told no, not going to do anything. If it was something decent, he would not have done what he do in the first place. Being confrontational giving the impression of being scared and panicked.  Which will only perpetuate. You rather better not show the *** and panick by straight ahead showing that you are not afraid of conflict by being loud and making a scene.

There had been actual cases where the potential targets of the serial killers and sex offenders happen to be in the bad mood and told them to fuck off after being creeped out by their tres passing or stalking. Only to realise it was someone on parole moeved on to another target during the same night they got intimated by their reaction. Same applies for burglaries. You are more likely to die by obeying and none confronting than confronting with an aggressor. Show no *** and be more clear. Don't give away that you are being scarred of them by not confronting when they are doing something ridiculous as it will make it super obvious and they will find courage to going further without consequence.

[Ju****]

5 minutes ago, Koray said:

There are so many thing I wanted to point out about the faulty instinctions of how to handle someone pushing boundaries. Mainly because of the physical power gap between aggressor and their target. There is a common misconception of avoiding conflict by not being rude will be safer than to increasing the tension to making it crystal clear you want someone back off. Regardless of size and circumstance, it is better to give intimidating reactions than none confrontational, passive reactions they could courage to push further.


"He leaned in again.. mouth and all open. I stood back and laughed again a bit more nervously this time. "
-Don't ever try to not making looking awkward or being polite to someone pushing boundaries.

"At this stage i then said sorry Ginger i have a boyfriend. "
You don't need to have a boyfriend for him to back off when you have been already rejected his advange just a second ago. Just say "I said NO!". Be firm and stood up your ground. Do not come up with that if you really have a friend. You don't need to be. 

"He said well where is he. I said at home. "
None of your concern! Do not perputuate any questioning you are not supposed to need to. Having boyfriend as the reason of turning down an advance will only lead to find encourage to pushing it further. As if they think you find them attractive and would have say but it is only because you are not available rather than clearly not interested. It can fed up the delusion. 

"I began pushing him away saying no again a further 3 times and backing away." 
Don't just tell. At first you reject in a formal way, at second advance say "I SAID NO!!!".
Be loud and it will not only make it clear to not only him but also make it clear to anyone around.

"Kiss me kiss me kiss me over and over. "
As you show no reaction that could lead him to being intimated of going further. No consequence, no public shaming. Nothing happens other than hearing "no" in a ton of voice no one else hear. 

"I tried to grab a passing womans eye as she passed but she was focussed where she was walking and didnt look at me."
Never count on strangers takin hint and presumed to be in a unfrontional stage. People are not always paying attention to their surrodinging. Use your voice, be loud as much as you can while saying "NO! GET AWAY!!". To the point of screaming if it still keeps going. That will lead everyone stare off and he will be dumb founded and getting embrassed in a spotlight.

"Him still trying and i kept saying no over and over."
As he is still being able to keep going for no consequences. Not because he does not know he is making you comfortable but just there is no consequence no matter what he does. Portraying you as an easy target that lead no consequence regardless of how much discomfort he does cause. 

"Now hes like 6ft 4 very vert heavy built man and very wide and heavy. I felt trapped and every no i said from here on out... he groped my ass and thighs pulling me in."
Regardless of his size or who it is, it will escalate if it lead no emotion other than *** and panic. You are not doing any good by avoiding conflict for your safety. Avoiding conflict as a reaction to physical *** is rather making them more tended to escalate, not the other way around. There needs to be penalty. A consequence of any sort making them freak out. Preferably something unpredictable. Whether it is playing crazy, making a sudden loud noise or anything make them dumb founded without physically engaging.

"Next thing Ginger walks over and stands on one side me (left) and puts his hand around the back of my neck and squeezes it very hard for 10 seconds."
It just level up as it expected without any penalty with previous physical ***s. Not to mention the confirmion that he know what he is doing not because of not taking the hint but just because the lack of consequence gave him the impression that he can get away with your none confrontational reactions. Portraying you as a some sort of safe prey.

"So she told him to bugger off so we could 'girl talk'."
That is what puts him off. Not trying to brush it off. Being told to fuck off. Not being told no over and over again without any consequences.

Nothing encouraging,  nothing intimidating. Just being told no, not going to do anything. If it was something decent, he would not have done what he do in the first place. Being confrontational giving the impression of being scared and panicked.  Which will only perpetuate. You rather better not show the *** and panick by straight ahead showing that you are not afraid of conflict by being loud and making a scene.

There had been actual cases where the potential targets of the serial killers and sex offenders happen to be in the bad mood and told them to fuck off after being creeped out by their tres passing or stalking. Only to realise it was someone on parole moeved on to another target during the same night they got intimated by their reaction. Same applies for burglaries. You are more likely to die by obeying and none confronting than confronting with an aggressor. Show no *** and be more clear. Don't give away that you are being scarred of them by not confronting when they are doing something ridiculous as it will make it super obvious and they will find courage to going further without consequence.

All i heard here was 

 

Its your fault

You didnt do this.. you didn't do that

You werent aggressive enough

 

The fact your body froze is your own fault

 

The fact youre weak to someone preying you encourages him

 

 

Thanks i feel like a millio  dollars now. 

 

Its my fault he wouldnt take no for an answer. All 15 times  

I clearly just let him terrify me.

 

 

Youre whats wrong with society im sorry but none of that was nice at all. 

 

And he only listened to the other gurl because shes in his close friendship circle. Not because of her saying no. 

[Ju****]

2 hours ago, DarkArts1066 said:

I’ve been a PPO for 27 years now, and the advice you have given about kneeing him is massively flawed. Whilst I agree 100% with reporting, and securing CCTV as soon as possible, (we all know what happens to that if the club wants to protect its integrity) There were other avenues available to secure safety.
I would never advise countering an *** with another *** - unless there is a ‘threat to life’ - and then it needs to be on a single strike basis - otherwise you’ll be the one getting nicked.
Reasonable - Proportionate - Justified.

Given that “Ginger” is 6’4”, and was aggressive in his approach (the neck hold in particular) any physical resistance would likely have been futile, and exacerbated the situation.
If you’ve ever actually tried to accurately knee a guy in the cluster, you’ll know how difficult it is to get it right.

This guy is a sexual predator. That’s not my best guess - it’s profiling, with 27 years worth of experience. I used to work for a while in the fashion industry, looking after fashion models for fashion houses - so I understand what sexual predators look like, and their behaviours.

I know the moment has probably passed now Jen, but - God forbid that something like that should ever happen again, please report immediately - and rationally, to anyone and everyone who will listen. Door Staff, Owner, Police, Licensing. And any else who might be able to help. Witnesses are important too.
Stay safe.

Yes hes bigger and stronger than me. 

I was being cornered off and i am not confrontational at all. 

He had never behaved this way before and i genuinely thought no was enough. Until he heard my boyfriend (who exists) wasnt there. And he proceeded to carry on. 

Yes i was nervous. I didnt quite know what was happening and in the moment of soemthing like this.. all you can think about is not letting yourself come to physical harm.

I have ***. They come first

I never ever put myself in a situation where someone could potentially end me. I will never be aggressive and fight.

If he was able to behave this way and pressing on me saying no.. had i struck him for all i know he would have seriously hurt me.

And hes too strong for me to defend myself. Be seen or heard. I was in a corner away from others with loud music. 

So i kept pleasantries and saying no until i felt that opportunity to *** him off me and run. 

The neck thing felt like a warning but it hurt me regardless of its intent. And i was still frightened. 

I am very skin sensitive to people touching me so his *** on my neck i was very emotionally heightened and aware of it. 

 

In hindsight i should have went to a doorman. But im too polite for my own good and will always prefer not to have confrontation. 

Nothing gave  this man an excuse to keep doing to me what  he did. 

But ive now contacted the bar. Listed the incident and the rough time frame and they are looking into it  for me 

 

But honestly i am still shaking from it and the thought of any further confrontation from him should nothing amount from it. 

Thatsa risk i take simply by going outside and him maybe being there. 

 

[Deleted Member]

You get it all wrong. I am telling that do not expect a criminable to be reasonable and they will not react well to avoid conflict. I know it is easier to said than done but regardless of how much you scared, be as loud as much as you can. SCREAM. 

 

Whenever first no does not respected it will be the same for 1000th. We are not talking about someone being at fault. We are talking about what to do for self defense. It is the same advice given on break ins, car *** and *** safety again ***ers. Be confrontional and loud whenever you are in a panic state and discomfort. 

Even if there is a gun pointing at, do not obey and do not afraid to making aggressor getting ***ed off. The chance of physical assualt is tended to be less on confrontational reactions over none confrontationals. 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Deleted Member

[Ju****]

Yup  

 

Its my fault he did what he did for as long as he did. 

👍

[Deleted Member]

Whatever he does is his fault. If I forgot to lock my door, it will be on the burglars fault. Does not mean it is wrong thing to locking it up. Dunno what bad thing locking the door or suggesting someone to setting up a alarm system got anything to do with victim blaming.

I do feel like I am being trolled at this point. Have a good day.

[Ju****]

YOU feel like YOURE being trolled?? 

 

I reacted in the way i did. I am not a large confrontational person

I do not fight

I have been attacked in my younger years and this man cornered me while forcing himself on me. I was triggered and froze.

 

There is NO excuse reason or validation for me to have reacted to how i have.. even with me saying NO.. that he should have continued 

 

One no is enough.

Thats my point

Whether im crying and being seen as "easy prey" or screaming and kicking... it doesnt fucking matter.

 

No means fucking no.

[AKA_Copper]

41 minutes ago, Koray said:

There are so many thing I wanted to point out about the faulty instinctions of how to handle someone pushing boundaries. Mainly because of the physical power gap between aggressor and their target. There is a common misconception of avoiding conflict by not being rude will be safer than to increasing the tension to making it crystal clear you want someone back off. Regardless of size and circumstance, it is better to give intimidating reactions than none confrontational, passive reactions they could courage to push further.


"He leaned in again.. mouth and all open. I stood back and laughed again a bit more nervously this time. "
-Don't ever try to not making looking awkward or being polite to someone pushing boundaries.

"At this stage i then said sorry Ginger i have a boyfriend. "
You don't need to have a boyfriend for him to back off when you have been already rejected his advange just a second ago. Just say "I said NO!". Be firm and stood up your ground. Do not come up with that if you really have a friend. You don't need to be. 

"He said well where is he. I said at home. "
None of your concern! Do not perputuate any questioning you are not supposed to need to. Having boyfriend as the reason of turning down an advance will only lead to find encourage to pushing it further. As if they think you find them attractive and would have say but it is only because you are not available rather than clearly not interested. It can fed up the delusion. 

"I began pushing him away saying no again a further 3 times and backing away." 
Don't just tell. At first you reject in a formal way, at second advance say "I SAID NO!!!".
Be loud and it will not only make it clear to not only him but also make it clear to anyone around.

"Kiss me kiss me kiss me over and over. "
As you show no reaction that could lead him to being intimated of going further. No consequence, no public shaming. Nothing happens other than hearing "no" in a ton of voice no one else hear. 

"I tried to grab a passing womans eye as she passed but she was focussed where she was walking and didnt look at me."
Never count on strangers takin hint and presumed to be in a unfrontional stage. People are not always paying attention to their surrodinging. Use your voice, be loud as much as you can while saying "NO! GET AWAY!!". To the point of screaming if it still keeps going. That will lead everyone stare off and he will be dumb founded and getting embrassed in a spotlight.

"Him still trying and i kept saying no over and over."
As he is still being able to keep going for no consequences. Not because he does not know he is making you comfortable but just there is no consequence no matter what he does. Portraying you as an easy target that lead no consequence regardless of how much discomfort he does cause. 

"Now hes like 6ft 4 very vert heavy built man and very wide and heavy. I felt trapped and every no i said from here on out... he groped my ass and thighs pulling me in."
Regardless of his size or who it is, it will escalate if it lead no emotion other than *** and panic. You are not doing any good by avoiding conflict for your safety. Avoiding conflict as a reaction to physical *** is rather making them more tended to escalate, not the other way around. There needs to be penalty. A consequence of any sort making them freak out. Preferably something unpredictable. Whether it is playing crazy, making a sudden loud noise or anything make them dumb founded without physically engaging.

"Next thing Ginger walks over and stands on one side me (left) and puts his hand around the back of my neck and squeezes it very hard for 10 seconds."
It just level up as it expected without any penalty with previous physical ***s. Not to mention the confirmion that he know what he is doing not because of not taking the hint but just because the lack of consequence gave him the impression that he can get away with your none confrontational reactions. Portraying you as a some sort of safe prey.

"So she told him to bugger off so we could 'girl talk'."
That is what puts him off. Not trying to brush it off. Being told to fuck off. Not being told no over and over again without any consequences.

Nothing encouraging,  nothing intimidating. Just being told no, not going to do anything. If it was something decent, he would not have done what he do in the first place. Being confrontational giving the impression of being scared and panicked.  Which will only perpetuate. You rather better not show the *** and panick by straight ahead showing that you are not afraid of conflict by being loud and making a scene.

There had been actual cases where the potential targets of the serial killers and sex offenders happen to be in the bad mood and told them to fuck off after being creeped out by their tres passing or stalking. Only to realise it was someone on parole moeved on to another target during the same night they got intimated by their reaction. Same applies for burglaries. You are more likely to die by obeying and none confronting than confronting with an aggressor. Show no *** and be more clear. Don't give away that you are being scarred of them by not confronting when they are doing something ridiculous as it will make it super obvious and they will find courage to going further without consequence.

It's easy isn't it, as a male whose likely not experienced sexual ***/*** to say "you should have"?
.
I'm not sure whether you're aware you've contradicted yourself in your silliness?
"Never count on strangers"
To
"To the point of screaming...that will lead everyone stare off.
.
Are you aware that approx. 70% of people when faced with sexual *** freeze? They can't respond physically/verbally because of shock/***/panic?
.
"Because he does not know he is making you uncomfortable"
If he took the measure of placing his hand on Jens neck and squeezing when Jen caught someones attention, he knew he was causing discomfort.
.
Some men, as we see in Jen's situation don't always accept the word 'no.' Chick flicks have a lot to answer for because they think that it's a challenge, that we really mean 'yes' as if we don't know our own minds. That's why some women try to appease. They smile and say thanks to compliments they feel awkward about. They speak about having a male partner even when they don't as a means of preventing any further attempts from the aggressor.
Telling people who are victims of (attempted) sexual *** to say no better/more frequently is victim blaming.
.
"That is what puts him off...being told to f*ck off"
No that's not, it's the interjection of a third person, someone else who became aware of what was happening, not the language used.
.
What you're hoping for is a 'perfect victim' and guess what, very very few of us are.

[Deleted Member]

Absolutely correct..
No means no.
No means stop..
No means …. Check yourself
No means ….this is the end of consent
No means….. it doesn’t matter where the power lies.. it all stops
No means…. No.

Now.. depending upon the situation….
No might mean… let’s communicate what this…
No might mean.. it no for right now, but after discussion has happened and the No has been sorted out, maybe things might continue.. and maybe they won’t.. that’s the possibility..

I absolutely believe though … if you hear no, and you continue, you are not making a good choice. Your actions are criminal..

I would like to point out this..
Consent can be given, and consent can be taken away instantly.. the moment someone doesn’t feel comfortable in what they are doing.. or the trust just isn’t there anymore.. just stop… there doesn’t really need to be a verbal “No” and actions can speak louder than words. Pay attention to the actions to the physical, and the auditory signals.. and be respectful of the communication and the person you are with.

[Ju****]

CK os spot on and so is feral. 

 

No even if a giggle was from nerves.. means no  

Me pushing him away

Taking steps backwards

Me telling him to stop and behave himself

That i dont see him in that way

that i have a boyfriend 

 

All of it was a polite way of rejetion

Because that's what and who i am. 

 

I would also like to point out he didnt physically hurt me until i did push him away with *** with a booming no and found help.

It was only after i did this that he put his hands around my neck. 

Before it was intimate and sexual with the groping

The neck squeeze was tense tight and aggressive. 

 

Imagine i harmed him. He could have really harmed me.

Would it bw preferable for me to bw crying with a black eye or u conscious on the floor before help finds me??? 

Or for me to be polite and get away un***hed to seek aid.

 

Any form of no. Verbal. Physical. All matters. 

My words and body language was NO. 

The youre my friend i dont see you that way was no. 

The i have a boyfriend.. in the hope hel realise im unavailable anyway ... not a fucking challenge.. is a no.

The arm kept taut against his body to keep him at a distance...the pint to my face as i turn away.

 

All a fucking NO.

 

There is no excuse for me being put through that. 

If he had of listened to the first polite no maybe i wouldn't have been left traumatised.  Angry scared and upset. 

I wouldnt have had a hand placed tight against my neck. 

It would have been forgotten about and the evening went on fine. But no. He made his choice to keep trying me.

 

Why?? Did he think i was weak? Maybe.

Did he think he would get away with it or that id cave? Maybe.

Did he think because i was dating his friend that he was entitled? Maybe.

 

Did he think because he was drunk it was alright because why not? Maybe

 

 

 

Doesnt make any of it fucking right.

[AKA_Copper]

@Koray, please don't message me your response to my comment responding to yours. Be and adult, stand up tall, be confident in your thoughts that you wish to share and do it publicly. We all very much appreciate it.