What is normal?

[Deleted Member]

A question I've mulled over for many years, and one I believe has much to do with life experience and perception. Normal to a prisoner serving 40 years is the routine of prison life yet to most of us that same routine would be anything but normal so perception and environment play a huge part in what one may judge as normal. 

 

No for me there is no standardised normal as it were but when kink/bdsm is mentioned amongst especially vanilla folk,  the word normal becomes something powerful, and in some cases our abnormality as they would think of us is ignorance in its purest form. Yet I ask you this, are we abnormal, are we the ones who have it all wrong or is it in fact the other way round? Are we the normal ones and is it they the vanillas who are abnormal.

 

We as a race are controlled, regulated, brainwashed if you like to live a certain way, with certain conditions placed upon our behaviour. This conditioning has been going on for thousands of years, repeatedly impressed upon us in all forms, media be it tv in the modern age or propaganda, the great games of Rome to keep the masses happy or even as far back as the Egyptians and their view that the pharaohs were living God's and should be respected as such, always rules, regulation and conditioning. Smoke and mirrors, propaganda and even downright lies over all those years to control and train the masses, a way to evolve apparently, a way to become civilised. A way I think to make us forget what we were pre civilisation, ***s who acted as such. 

 

The vanillas today have been conditioned, the inner memory, instinct of what they truly are still there but buried deep, society's job accomplished, the memory of the anìmal they once were sufficiently suppressed to be almost completely extinguished. For me all that happens is memory suppression, conditioning.

 

What if I were to say we just have better memories than they do, we remember, we feel the truth of the ***s we are. What if we are just instinctive creatures truly connected with our ancestors, not those of 100 or 200 years but those of 20,000 years and beyond. What if that is all we are? Merely those whose instinct still overrides the conditioning society has tried to *** upon us? Then surely if that were true it is us kinksters who are the normal ones and the vanillas who are in fact abnormal, we just remember the truth more than they and with us society has still much work to do 😊😊.

[Dreamaway]

Thought this was taken care of by Thebian down the feed. All just a question of perception in relation to your environment and position in Society I think. My personal view and life tenet, normal is downright boring and striving to avoid the normal trap hasn't necessarily done me any favours at times. But if I "normaled" out I do know I would not have been happy.

[sexxyslut]

Wow. That was on point.

[Deleted Member]

4 hours ago, Dreamaway said:

Thought this was taken care of by Thebian down the feed. All just a question of perception in relation to your environment and position in Society I think. My personal view and life tenet, normal is downright boring and striving to avoid the normal trap hasn't necessarily done me any favours at times. But if I "normaled" out I do know I would not have been happy.

You miss my point, maybe it is us who are normal and the vanillas who ha e been conditioned to be something other than what their base nature really is.

[Deleted Member]

When I have spoken to vanilla friends about what I do, the reaction is always - 'wow that's amazing!' Or 'I wish I as brave enough' or 'I wish someone would do that to me' or 'really? You mean people actually do that? I'm so jealous!' And my fave: 'That's SO HOT'.

It's no surprise to me that 'vanilla' people have the same thoughts, fantasies, and curiosity. Maybe we are the ones who were curious/brave/stupid (😂) enough to try the things that we found interesting and arousing. Maybe the only thing that makes us 'abnormal' is our desire to step out and *not be vanilla*. Like you said, the base instinct is always there, it's our own conditioning as we grow that changes our perception of it and whether we act on what we feel.

[Fen]

Eh. Saying there exists a "normal" way to be has always just been a way of hurting people who don't fit into boxes. Humans are the most adaptable species on the planet, it's normal for us to take a variety of mental forms! Vanilla is normal, kink is normal, asexuals are normal. There are a lot of people who would like kink but are afraid trying it would take them out of their little "normal" box. I think for their sake it's important to emphasize that yes, kink is normal. But it's no more or less normal than vanilla or Ace.

[Deleted Member]

8 minutes ago, Fen said:

 think for their sake it's important to emphasize that yes, kink is normal. 

If it was "normal" then the majority wouldn't have to hide their true natures from  the vanilla folk. It would be accepted just like everything else but the fact is it isnt

[Deleted Member]

11 minutes ago, Fen said:

Eh. Saying there exists a "normal" way to be has always just been a way of hurting people who don't fit into boxes. 

I've not once said there was a normal way to be, its vanilla folk who tend to say things like that and as far as human beings being adaptable I completely disagree. It's the judgment of those adaptable human beings that cause most to hide their true nature and live behind closed doors

[Fen]

1 minute ago, Donnykinkster said:

If it was "normal" then the majority wouldn't have to hide their true natures from  the vanilla folk. It would be accepted just like everything else but the fact is it isnt

Being gay is normal. For centuries, gay men and women had to hide from straight folk. Being trans is normal. Trans people have only had visibility for a few decades, aside from jokes about prostitutes. Plenty of vanilla people draw a box around themselves and write "normal" on the side. Not fitting into a box made by someone who's afraid of what they don't understand doesn't make us abnormal. It's part of being human.

[Deleted Member]

Just now, Fen said:

Being gay is normal. For centuries, gay men and women had to hide from straight folk. Being trans is normal. Trans people have only had visibility for a few decades, aside from jokes about prostitutes. Plenty of vanilla people draw a box around themselves and write "normal" on the side. Not fitting into a box made by someone who's afraid of what they don't understand doesn't make us abnormal. It's part of being human.

And that I agree with BUT normal is decided by the majority and always has been and the majority deem those with kinks as abnormal. Same with gay as an example, its only really the last 20-30 years that gay ***ps have been accepted as part of mainstream society so before that they were viewed as extremely abnormal. It used to be illegal in the UK to be a homosexual and I think that says enough.

[Dreamaway]

I don't think I did miss the point here Donny, normal or not is just down to each individuals perception of themselves and the biggest crowd of similar people or types are what is accepted to be normal. Now if you substitute the word boring instead of normal....I think we know which side of the fence we're on. Having said that, some people don't have the imagination to be daring and think for themselves, they're safe within the herd. Best place for them too..

[Fen]

The majority decides what they want to call normal, that doesn't mean they're right. In the end, "normal" is relative. Using their definition is a choice. I find their definition hurts people, so I choose not to use it. If enough of us do that, they won't be "the majority" anymore.

[ol****]

Sexuality and it's expression is a continum. Each person probably defines their own normal. In society normal is where most peoples preferences overlap. 

Does that put us at an extreme? Yes it probably does.

[Mo****]

After reading a thread about kink on a certain large  well known online arena, kink is definitely deemed not normal by a large majority of the people replying. The disgust displayed was not concealed. There was much misunderstanding though but they are not the type to want to be educated about the reality and as I'm only a lurker there didn't put my head above the pat to be shot at! 

[Deleted Member]

I feel somewhat uncomfortable with this positioning of vanilla and kinky on opposite sides. I have sexual and other needs which differ from the mainstream views. That doesn’t make me more special or less boring.

[Th****]

I think this is a very complex area once we take it too seriously.

Anyone who looked at my thread on normal will know I proudly identify as Abnormal.

To do that though, I must have some a picture in my head of what I think normal looks like. The problem here is there is a multiplicity of normalities that happily coexist. Well, not always happily but they coexist.

That really does not help me much with my self definition. 

Next I look at ways that society creates legal structures and removes protections from groups it considers abnormal.

Forgive me for passing the history of everything but white male rights, but if I recap it will take forever.

So where is Bdsm protected in law?

In the UK no where.

 

Can people who are involved in BDSM be prosecuted for actions that, within their community, are totally accepted?   

We very much can in the UK, and it being a BDSM relationship is no defense.

 

So for me I am defined as abnormal by the society that creates the legal framework that ***s me to live my lifestyle choices with the permanent risk of prosecution.

This is not mentioning effects on child custody, lack of protections under employment law. 

Some of us may not believe there is such a difference between BDSM and vanilla, but vanilla world made the laws. The laws regulate the behavior of the people.

Under the law we do not exist.

 

[Deleted Member]

10 hours ago, Thebian said:

I think this is a very complex area once we take it too seriously.

Anyone who looked at my thread on normal will know I proudly identify as Abnormal.

To do that though, I must have some a picture in my head of what I think normal looks like. The problem here is there is a multiplicity of normalities that happily coexist. Well, not always happily but they coexist.

That really does not help me much with my self definition. 

Next I look at ways that society creates legal structures and removes protections from groups it considers abnormal.

Forgive me for passing the history of everything but white male rights, but if I recap it will take forever.

So where is Bdsm protected in law?

In the UK no where.

 

Can people who are involved in BDSM be prosecuted for actions that, within their community, are totally accepted?   

We very much can in the UK, and it being a BDSM relationship is no defense.

 

So for me I am defined as abnormal by the society that creates the legal framework that ***s me to live my lifestyle choices with the permanent risk of prosecution.

This is not mentioning effects on child custody, lack of protections under employment law. 

Some of us may not believe there is such a difference between BDSM and vanilla, but vanilla world made the laws. The laws regulate the behavior of the people.

Under the law we do not exist.

 

I think many kinksters are unaware of the legal ramifications sadly (and somewhat dangerously). I removed photos of bruises I had received specifically because of this as it concerned me so much. Do you think it’s another factor which brings us as a community together - a shared understanding?

[BaritoneSwitch]

I tend to think of 'normal' as the place in the middle of the bell-curve. If you ever study human behaviour (preferences, opinions, abilities, etc) in a statistical way, you'll usually find that the vast majority fall within a central range and the further toward the extreme ends you go, the more sparsely populated they are. So, truthfully, we all wouldn't be here, unless we fell at one of the more extreme ends of this one graph. On the 'Vanilla' to 'Kinky' scale we fall at the far right. In a very important sense, I think it's fair to say that we are not normal in this way.

Having said that, human behaviour is incredibly complex and there are many, many more graphs to consider. We are somewhat extreme on this graph, but probably not so much on others. For instance, I'm guessing that if you polled us all about our political beliefs we would fall all over the spectrum. Hell, even when it comes to general sexuality I'm guessing that many of us would be a lot more 'normal' in other aspects. E.g. Flirting: Do you like to initiate sexual relationships, or have them initiated by someone else?

My point is that, in this one way we are all 'abnormal', it's true. But in many ways we're also very normal simultaneously. It doesn't need to be a one or the other proposition.

And, on the subject of the legal ramifications of kink, I think there's much to celebrate and be hopeful about. Truthfully. I've come out to a few of my friends and loved ones about my proclivities and for the most part they've been wonderful and accepting. Sadomasochism has been removed from the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, for those who don't know), along with homosexuality and gender dysphoria, and in general most signs that I see point to BDSM gaining wider acceptance in general society. Obviously the work isn't finished yet, our place on this bell curve does open us up to more legal risk than most. Thebian and Kate are very right about that. But, most of the signs I see are positive.

[Deleted Member]

23 hours ago, Fen said:

The majority decides what they want to call normal, that doesn't mean they're right. 

I think that's the whole point  of the thread 😊.

18 hours ago, Thebian said:

I think this is a very complex area once we take it too seriously.

Anyone who looked at my thread on normal will know I proudly identify as Abnormal.

To do that though, I must have some a picture in my head of what I think normal looks like. The problem here is there is a multiplicity of normalities that happily coexist. Well, not always happily but they coexist.

That really does not help me much with my self definition. 

Next I look at ways that society creates legal structures and removes protections from groups it considers abnormal.

Forgive me for passing the history of everything but white male rights, but if I recap it will take forever.

So where is Bdsm protected in law?

In the UK no where.

 

Can people who are involved in BDSM be prosecuted for actions that, within their community, are totally accepted?   

We very much can in the UK, and it being a BDSM relationship is no defense.

 

So for me I am defined as abnormal by the society that creates the legal framework that ***s me to live my lifestyle choices with the permanent risk of prosecution.

This is not mentioning effects on child custody, lack of protections under employment law. 

Some of us may not believe there is such a difference between BDSM and vanilla, but vanilla world made the laws. The laws regulate the behavior of the people.

Under the law we do not exist.

 

A great point @Thebian but again it's their(societies) laws that dictate who is "nornal/abnormal and those laws place us in a very awkward posistion. In a legal sense we are screwed and it was not something I was even aware off until a few months ago, I thought with consent we were pretty much good to go. However for me in my opinion we may not be their normal but we are my normal, and in many ways this community could teach the vanilla world valuable lessons. I can define normal in a two words, my version of it anyway.

Empathetic and kind, if you have those two qualities then you are "normal"

Edited September 1, 2020 by Deleted Member
Better choice of words

[Th****]

7 hours ago, Curvykate said:

I think many kinksters are unaware of the legal ramifications sadly (and somewhat dangerously). I removed photos of bruises I had received specifically because of this as it concerned me so much. Do you think it’s another factor which brings us as a community together - a shared understanding?

I believe it does Kate, granted we empathise with one another and find commonalities in many ways. 

Yes I agree, I think the more that society ostracises a community the tighter that community grows.

We develop our own jargon to discuss things that is a form of code, cockney rhyming slang came about in pretty much the same way.

A common and shared experience can only help us to relate to one another. We can always use more understanding.

[Th****]

7 hours ago, BaritoneSub said:

tend to think of 'normal' as the place in the middle of the bell-curve. If you ever study human behaviour (preferences, opinions, abilities, etc) in a statistical way, you'll usually find that the vast majority fall within a central range and the further toward the extreme ends you go, the more sparsely populated they are. So, truthfully, we all wouldn't be here, unless we fell at one of the more extreme ends of this one graph. On the 'Vanilla' to 'Kinky' scale we fall at the far right. In a very important sense, I think it's fair to say that we are not normal in this way.

I love that example, as someone who has worked in the field of statistical analysis, the Bell Curve metaphor made me smile a lot. So true.

Yes I agree, things are moving in a positive direction, but not by accident, as a community we have been working on our public image since the promotion of SSC. Things now are certainly better in the eyes of average people and we just have to translate  that into a practical community protection within the law.

It is more in sight than ever.

[Th****]

40 minutes ago, Donnykinkster said:

Empathetic and kind, if you have those two qualities then you are "normal"

Right there we agree Donny. 

That would certainly be the case in my ideal world. 

 

 

[St****]

1 hour ago, Donnykinkster said:

I think that's the whole point  of the thread 😊.

A great point @Thebian but again it's their(societies) laws that dictate who is "nornal/abnormal and those laws place us in a very awkward posistion. In a legal sense we are screwed and it was not something I was even aware off until a few months ago, I thought with consent we were pretty much good to go. However for me in my opinion we may not be their normal but we are my normal, and in many ways this community could teach the vanilla world valuable lessons. I can define normal in a two words, my version of it anyway.

Empathetic and kind, if you have those two qualities then you are "normal"

Thanks for that comment.  I was waiting and hoping someone would post about "normal" in the BDSM context.  For me, the words "not normal" holds such negative connotations and as I look around at this community, I see nothing negative (well, except the occasional asshat).  I too see empathy and kindness.

[Th****]

@Donnykinkster @Stellina

I just had a thought, if "not normal" is negative try this;

I am ABnormal,

That means the rest of society is Cnormal at best.

We are the cream. 

[Deleted Member]

3 minutes ago, Thebian said:

@Donnykinkster @Stellina

I just had a thought, if "not normal" is negative try this;

I am ABnormal,

That means the rest of society is Cnormal at best.

We are the cream. 

😂😂I can't argue against that 😊