Is the number of my age constantly hanging above my head? (22M)

[Deleted Member]

53 minutes ago, woburn169344 said:

Yeah, girls being viscous. Wasn’t a thing. Girls were respectful with boys in the mating ritual back when I was young. There were standards for both boys and girls. If a girl were to ridicule or laugh at a boy for trying to ask her out the sign she had above her head was “piece of shit”. It just didn’t happen. Back then almost all girls had boyfriends. Accepting gifts from a boy they didn’t have a genuine interest in?- shameful, deceitful

Wow 😂😂 that sounds like a great time. A girl will take gifts and gifts from you these days and have no interest. Some of them at least

[Deleted Member]

31 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

So this IS something where your age may disadvantage you.

As someone else said she had an amazing Dominant when she was younger, who was around her age.

I don't want to sweeping statement about women - but - like, if there were men 40-50 chasing after women who were 20-22 then, ahem, legal but creepy. (*and not legal everywhere!) and the same is true in the case of women and younger men.  Add in, again not wanting to be sweeping statement - but a woman who has her shit together trying to get your shit together is, well, work and emotional labour - it's less appealing.

I get that completely and it’s honestly an outlook I’ve never thought of but needed to hear.

[wo****]

Sunday at 07:04 AM, AMOSem244224 said:

Girls are vicious. I need a woman that has her own life already figured out and can speak for herself. It’s honestly a lot more fun too, the chase of a woman older than you when you’re younger. I’m definitely still figuring it all out though

I wouldn’t expect them to chase you. I think that a large majority of late 30’s-40’s women open to getting with a 22 year old man are not thinking about it as a LTR, marriage, etc. Most will be looking at doing so as a ONS, fling, FWB, or STR. So know what you want and play your cards right. They will understand that you most likely financially stable will a lot disposable income, but don’t expect them to carry you. They want you for SEX and excitement. They will understand that you are quite unlikely to want them 20 years down the road, regardless of what you say now.
At the individual level you might find a Harold and Maude relationship, or live happily ever after with a much older woman, but that’s not typical.

[wo****]

Sunday at 07:53 AM, eyemblacksheep said:

So this IS something where your age may disadvantage you.

As someone else said she had an amazing Dominant when she was younger, who was around her age.

I don't want to sweeping statement about women - but - like, if there were men 40-50 chasing after women who were 20-22 then, ahem, legal but creepy. (*and not legal everywhere!) and the same is true in the case of women and younger men.  Add in, again not wanting to be sweeping statement - but a woman who has her shit together trying to get your shit together is, well, work and emotional labour - it's less appealing.

Is it really illegal in some places to date 20-22 year old women past a certain age as a man?
IMO it’s not creepy for much older men to be interested in women that age. I know you said chasing after, but the 50 year old men who have an actual chance with women that age don’t have to chase them.
Men that age who chase them without having a shot aren’t creepy for wanting them, they are ridiculous for doing so without realizing they have no shot.
Also,
I didn’t know you were ageist, you need to work on your inclusivity mindset bro. lol

[Sa****]

No judgements. I would love to meet a submissive that is between 35 - 48. I'm not looking to be a sexy stepmom, as one guy put it in his greeting. Idk if that's why they think I'm on here. I'm not looking for a younger guy, to feel validated. I want a genuine connection, I believe that it's necessary for a successful dynamic.

[ey****]

6 hours ago, woburn169344 said:

Is it really illegal in some places to date 20-22 year old women past a certain age as a man?

rare for the upper end.

while every territory has an age of consent, some have additional stipulations around age or authority - state of Oklahoma someone 19 couldn't consent to someone 24 (or above).  State of Washington someone who is 20 couldn't consent to someone older than 24 also.

6 hours ago, woburn169344 said:

IMO it’s not creepy for much older men to be interested in women that age. I know you said chasing after, but the 50 year old men who have an actual chance with women that age don’t have to chase them.
Men that age who chase them without having a shot aren’t creepy for wanting them, they are ridiculous for doing so without realizing they have no shot.
Also,
I didn’t know you were ageist, you need to work on your inclusivity mindset bro. lol

a lot comes down to context

like someone 50 dating someone 23 is legal, everywhere, whether it is appropriate/creepy does depend on a lot of context.  If someone is, say, 40, 50, etc and then seems to often/specifically reach out to or date those in their early 20s, there has to be somewhat of a question on motive/intent.

Especially as it is more widely known now that adolescent brains are still developing.   That even someone "mature for their age" is still undergoing brain development.  It is something for prospective partners to factor.  

[wo****]

13 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

a lot comes down to context

like someone 50 dating someone 23 is legal, everywhere, whether it is appropriate/creepy does depend on a lot of context.  If someone is, say, 40, 50, etc and then seems to often/specifically reach out to or date those in their early 20s, there has to be somewhat of a question on motive/intent.

Especially as it is more widely known now that adolescent brains are still developing.   That even someone "mature for their age" is still undergoing brain development.  It is something for prospective partners to factor.  

I’m surprised to hear about 18 and 20 yo can’t consent. They can consent to use their last penny to get on a plane and fly around the world. Then they can consent to walk into places that are considered among the most dangerous in the world without knowing anyone or speaking one word of the language. Dating a man they have known their whole life, a man who loves them back and wants to build a life with her. Nope, he’s 5 years older than her. She CAN consent to dating someone closer in age, a guy who is a wanted felon and known girlfriend beater who doesn’t give a shit about anyone or anything but himself. The consent is not snatched away from her there. You didn’t say what or if there is punishment for the 24 year old. If there is Mr Wonderful gets it and Mr. Piece of shit doesn’t.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Someone being older, or much older, doesn’t even hint at bad motives OR behavior.
As to the 50 year old exclusively dating 23 the motive is crystal clear. He wants to date women who are at the height of their sexual attractiveness. My guess is because he wants to have lots and lots of sex with them.
Creeps come in all different ages. Women in their early 20’s are the most physically attractive to men. It’s true all across the world, across cultures, and all age ranges. What men say in public is influenced by the image they wish to portray. Erections don’t care about societal conditioning or influence. Different parts of the brain are involved.
Attraction has been widely researched. Individual men differ, large sample sizes show averages. It’s simply related to hind brain evolution. Women in that age group are at peak fertility. Men don’t process it that way, we have evolved to notice traits that identify fertility. Species survival. In a million years of evolution it could change. It’s doesn’t change because people think it should.
Women know it too. They want to look younger. They spend billions and billions to slow or reverse the aging process.
Brain development- using that as a reason here, and not
- on voting,
-signing legal contracts,
-engaging in platonic friendships and relationships
That’s actual evidence which calls motives into question.

[Deleted Member]

2 hours ago, woburn169344 said:

I’m surprised to hear about 18 and 20 yo can’t consent. They can consent to use their last penny to get on a plane and fly around the world. Then they can consent to walk into places that are considered among the most dangerous in the world without knowing anyone or speaking one word of the language. Dating a man they have known their whole life, a man who loves them back and wants to build a life with her. Nope, he’s 5 years older than her. She CAN consent to dating someone closer in age, a guy who is a wanted felon and known girlfriend beater who doesn’t give a shit about anyone or anything but himself. The consent is not snatched away from her there. You didn’t say what or if there is punishment for the 24 year old. If there is Mr Wonderful gets it and Mr. Piece of shit doesn’t.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Someone being older, or much older, doesn’t even hint at bad motives OR behavior.
As to the 50 year old exclusively dating 23 the motive is crystal clear. He wants to date women who are at the height of their sexual attractiveness. My guess is because he wants to have lots and lots of sex with them.
Creeps come in all different ages. Women in their early 20’s are the most physically attractive to men. It’s true all across the world, across cultures, and all age ranges. What men say in public is influenced by the image they wish to portray. Erections don’t care about societal conditioning or influence. Different parts of the brain are involved.
Attraction has been widely researched. Individual men differ, large sample sizes show averages. It’s simply related to hind brain evolution. Women in that age group are at peak fertility. Men don’t process it that way, we have evolved to notice traits that identify fertility. Species survival. In a million years of evolution it could change. It’s doesn’t change because people think it should.
Women know it too. They want to look younger. They spend billions and billions to slow or reverse the aging process.
Brain development- using that as a reason here, and not
- on voting,
-signing legal contracts,
-engaging in platonic friendships and relationships
That’s actual evidence which calls motives into question.

They also allow *** to go to the army but they can’t put their dick in a woman that’s older no no no

[ey****]

2 hours ago, woburn169344 said:

I’m surprised to hear about 18 and 20 yo can’t consent. They can consent to use their last penny to get on a plane and fly around the world. Then they can consent to walk into places that are considered among the most dangerous in the world without knowing anyone or speaking one word of the language. Dating a man they have known their whole life, a man who loves them back and wants to build a life with her. Nope, he’s 5 years older than her.

There's assorted rules by territory and, yeah - this is often what it comes to.

2 hours ago, woburn169344 said:

As to the 50 year old exclusively dating 23 the motive is crystal clear. He wants to date women who are at the height of their sexual attractiveness

It's a bit worrying he finds 23 the height of attractiveness mind.   

Like, I find the majority I'm most attracted to to be from late 20s into mid 40s.  Though, of course, I have engaged in play with some below 25 and up to around 60. But yeah the majority I find the most attractive are past adolesence. 

[wo****]

2 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

It's a bit worrying he finds 23 the height of attractiveness mind.   

Like, I find the majority I'm most attracted to to be from late 20s into mid 40s.  Though, of course, I have engaged in play with some below 25 and up to around 60. But yeah the majority I find the most attractive are past adolesence. 

Sexual attractiveness. Visually appealing, most likely to catch men’s eyes. The concept doesn’t escape you, does it? That’s why we are here and didn’t die as sperm in our ancestors balls a million years ago. The Innate male sex drive. Your way is the right way to mate select? Do you have a prescription book with a hundred million pages? Fill one out for each man in the country so he can learn what to value and how to rank them?
Think it’s creepy? OK. It gives you the ick. OK. If it’s not that, if you judge it as
morally wrong, let’s hear hear the reasoning.

[wo****]

3 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

It's a bit worrying he finds 23 the height of attractiveness mind.   

Like, I find the majority I'm most attracted to to be from late 20s into mid 40s.  Though, of course, I have engaged in play with some below 25 and up to around 60. But yeah the majority I find the most attractive are past adolesence. 

What age does adolescence stop for girls, broadly speaking?
Are you Implying that 23 is 15 or 16 or something?
If you had hot 23 year olds showing sexual interest in you, flirting, wanting to be close to you, etc would you dismiss them because what, your mental image of their knowledge base or interests are less appealing to you than older women?
I know. Would you dare yell out to people the answer? Do you have to water it down or quality it? Or can you say: I would fucking love it.

[ey****]

I feel we're veering off topic, but here goes

6 hours ago, woburn169344 said:

Your way is the right way to mate select? D

see, language like this reduces women not as people but as breedable mating partners - and I guess I see women as more than that.

5 hours ago, woburn169344 said:

What age does adolescence stop for girls, broadly speaking?

25-30

5 hours ago, woburn169344 said:

If you had hot 23 year olds showing sexual interest in you, flirting, wanting to be close to you, etc would you dismiss them because what, your mental image of their knowledge base or interests are less appealing to you than older women?

it depends entirely on context.  It's difficult to give as a yes/no answer because it depends on a lot of things.

I guess there's also a world of difference in me being somewhere and having a 20-23 year old show interest in me - and me going somewhere because it was predominantly 20-23 year old women hoping to strike interest.

I think there's bits lost in nuance.   As you say, there is different types of creepy behaviour, and no age or experience, or dynamic is exempt - but I'd stand by that specifically targeting people significantly younger and/or inexperienced/naive is typically creepy.  That doesn't mean always, that doesn't mean nuance doesn't exist. That doesn't mean things don't come down to context.    But, among anything else - specifically targeting people younger already should send out a warning that they're going to be.... replaced.... as they get older. That a long term relationship isn't on offer. 

[wo****]

16 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I feel we're veering off topic, but here goes

it depends entirely on context.  It's difficult to give as a yes/no answer because it depends on a lot of things.

I guess there's also a world of difference in me being somewhere and having a 20-23 year old show interest in me - and me going somewhere because it was predominantly 20-23 year old women hoping to strike interest.

I think there's bits lost in nuance.   As you say, there is different types of creepy behaviour, and no age or experience, or dynamic is exempt - but I'd stand by that specifically targeting people significantly younger and/or inexperienced/naive is typically creepy.  That doesn't mean always, that doesn't mean nuance doesn't exist. That doesn't mean things don't come down to context.    But, among anything else - specifically targeting people younger already should send out a warning that they're going to be.... replaced.... as they get older. That a long term relationship isn't on offer. 

You start off by accusing me of holding a position that I don’t, and saying I am responsible for turning women into human chattel. I’m not convinced but I’m open to learning if you care to explain.
Regarding adolescence. I learned something here. I preciously thought puberty and adolescence were synonymous. A cursory search of showed that they are not, although it had been. It was the way I learned it in the previous century. Thanks to you my floppy disk has been updated.
While I did see the age of 30, and even 32 as the top end, it was noted that it is the view of a small portion of whichever discipline studies this stuff. It looked to me like 25 is the age most commonly used. I also saw 19 as the top end, but it seemed that only small portion viewed it this way.
I think the public sees it like I had, old public anyway.
I have known about the prefrontal cortex, where judgement and decision making takes place, not being fully developed until age 25.
If the adolescence issue was longstanding and widely understood general knowledge, spoken of the way “young adult” is used I wouldn’t have a care about referring to early 20’s that way. As it stands now I think saying it that way colors people’s perception.
It’s like you choosing to say “deliberately targeting people” significantly younger. That language sounds like the way people speak about predators. Predators set out to do evil things.
Do you use that phrasing when speaking about ALL people who go out wanting to meet for the possibility of dating?
Do you speak that way about women?
And the men are to be looked at with distrust and viewed as having plans to leave a woman in a bad way? The women are the victims.
Are the women who make a habit of dating much older men not targeting them? Are they not planning to leave the man in a bad way? They don’t plan on replacing the men? They don’t juggle guys and replace them? Do they not victimize men?
Very attractive young woman have quite a lot of power over men. They can meet even a rich and powerful man and wrap him around their little finger. His rich and powerful business rivals wish they had the power to do that.

[ey****]

5 hours ago, woburn169344 said:

It’s like you choosing to say “deliberately targeting people” significantly younger. That language sounds like the way people speak about predators. Predators set out to do evil things.

So, yep. Context. 

So it is, or often can be, predatory.  Evil could be contextual.  But there are people who deliberately look for newbies, or deliberately look for people who are younger/naive - for whatever motive.

5 hours ago, woburn169344 said:

Do you use that phrasing when speaking about ALL people who go out wanting to meet for the possibility of dating?

Of course not. It's all kinda in their motives and actions.  

5 hours ago, woburn169344 said:

Are the women who make a habit of dating much older men not targeting them? Are they not planning to leave the man in a bad way? They don’t plan on replacing the men? They don’t juggle guys and replace them? Do they not victimize men?

In a lot of cases, and this ties in with a point I've not referenced - I don't think a lot of people deliberately intend to leave the other person in a bad way.  In fact, there's every chance the relationship comes to the end and the other person doesn't feel it ended bad.  Or any worse than any other break up can be.  I have been aware of people who 10 years later after a relationship, with full clarity and information about their relationship and others that actually, no, things weren't right (just as other people can look back at relationships which ended with mostly fondness) 

But, we don't need to whataboutism.  Yes, anyone regardless of their gender, age, etc can act in ways which are, well, predatory.  Which - if I recall - was how we got onto this line of discussion anyway.  

[wo****]

15 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

In a lot of cases, and this ties in with a point I've not referenced - I don't think a lot of people deliberately intend to leave the other person in a bad way.  In fact, there's every chance the relationship comes to the end and the other person doesn't feel it ended bad.  Or any worse than any other break up can be.  I have been aware of people who 10 years later after a relationship, with full clarity and information about their relationship and others that actually, no, things weren't right (just as other people can look back at relationships which ended with mostly fondness) 

But, we don't need to whataboutism.  Yes, anyone regardless of their gender, age, etc can act in ways which are, well, predatory.  Which - if I recall - was how we got onto this line of discussion anyway.  

Women in America don’t live sheltered lives like they did in the 1950’s. The internet and social media expose *** and young adults to so much more than even adults were exposed to prior to the internet. Girls and young woman (particularly very attractive ones) get lifetimes of experience in interacting with the opposite sex.
With that experience comes learning.
It’s a new age.
They are all aware of only fans and some are counting the days until they turn 18 jump in. Attractive ***age girls can run circles around ***age boys. The sheer volume of attention they get (which brings experience in dealing with the opposite sex, and the learning that comes with it) brings them up to s***d on men by 18-21 that would overshadow the lifetime of experience women had prior to social media.
What would you guess as a percentage of men who are not just older than half of all men, but are also appealing enough to much younger women to be able to regularly date early 20’s women?
I realize you understand nuance, as do I. A difference between us, I think, is that you have a default position to assume those men fall in the “targeting girls as predators” category, with the willingness to change your mind on a case by case basis because you understand nuance and details matter.
I don’t assume anything either good or bad about them as my default. I also have a full understanding that there are all manner of inept, socially awkward, selfish, creepy, mean, and evil of men in the world, all ages and economic classes in the world. And I am not under the illusion that the men we are talking about are exempt.
If my summary of what I think your position, generally speaking, is accurate (it’s my impression- not saying I know it’s accurate) it’s prejudice. You sit on a jury for a case that pertains and the jury is tainted, you have already decided he’s predatory in some way. A jury where a 23 year old girl dating him is the defendant in a pertinent matter- prejudice, the guy is a predator as the default, to some degree anyway. Sure, the jury thing won’t happen, but you are a juror in the jury room of life and your prejudice is communicated to everyone. Those of like minds will reflexively agree.
Some may not think critically and may be swayed by predator talk.
Rhetorical questions:
How do you think the jury room of Fet members sees it?
I really appreciate the thoughtfulness and consideration you bring if and when we disagree. It’s an uncommon experience for me when having a disagreement with someone on matters similar to this.

[ey****]

6 minutes ago, woburn169344 said:

How do you think the jury room of Fet members sees it?

I think we've gone way off topic, but I'll address this part.

I'd like to hope everyone assesses anything on a case by case basis.  But, in reality, a lot of people have a lot of their own experiences.  I suspect a lot of the women may at some point have had someone uncomfortably interested in them. Something most of us men have never dealt with.  They may have also been more likely to notice patterned behaviour.  Like if a guy is getting older and older but only ever dating young women. If someone where all of his exes are "crazy". If someone has boundary pushed - apologised as an "honest mistake" and been given the benefit of the doubt, but then repeated the process with someone else.  I suspect a lot of the men would be more likely to give a benefit of the doubt.   When, ideally, everything should be a case to case basis even if we all somewhat have our biases.

But likewise, this convo wasn't originally about older men and younger women.

I guess also.  In a jury scenario people have to make a unananimous or majority decision.  Sometimes just having 11 guilty's and 1 not guilty is enough to throw a case out.   In general life, people can make their own decisions and form opinions without a majority backing.  And that's a good thing.  Because if someone feels someone's behaviour, legal or not, is inappropriate - they don't have to engage nor rely on convincing a majority.