Popular Post Deleted Member Posted January 4 Popular Post I was taught that a man’s value is tied to his paycheck. I’ve believed it, repeated it, and even caught myself passing it to my tiny humans. But when I actually look at my life, it doesn’t line up. Not a single relationship I’ve had was built because of income. Connection came from presence, humor, emotional safety, curiosity, human things, not numbers. So why does that old framework still have gravity? Why does it still feel like the scoreboard, even when experience says otherwise? I’m not saying *** doesn’t matter. It does. I’m questioning why we treat it like 'the measure', especially when it doesn’t seem to be how real relationships actually form. Has anyone else noticed this gap between what we’re taught and what actually plays out? I only recently started dating after the end of a LTR and I am a huge nerd for data. I find that any reference to success reduces my interest, a blank profile receives more attention, and if I post a picture of a white panel van and make mention to (red flag) issues I'm flooded. So my question, is why are men still placing value on being providers, if that doesn't attract and hasn't attracted in the last 30 years?
as**** Posted January 4 Hey MDQC, I agree, it's an old model that has been successful for thousands of years. But the social environment is changing because the economic power and need is also shifting. Women have jobs, ***, bank account ect., now, so economic providing isn't as high on the priority list. So, what do women actually look for according to social experiments applied under the scientific method, and have been observably recorded Women want: personality attributes. Kindness. Empathy. Emotional intelligence, humor. Sure, they still have some level of affirming that the point of meannincludes many aspects, but alo providing, butnits not high on the priority list like it used to be As a result, Women now highly valued how they're emotionally treated and turned to. And you're right, successful relationships are deeply involved emotional presence sort of thing. Really rewarding, but it's quality depends on empathetic and team oriented attitudes and behaviors All too often, men are taught to be lone wolves, to be brilliant, make a lot of ***, fuck a lot of pussy; intercept a bullet The gap between these two attitudes is staggering
Do**** Posted January 4 Because it's tangible - it's easy for men to say she's a golddigger and is only interested in my ***. Since women have become more financially independent (generally speaking in the US) we're seeking the green flags you listed above and most men don't know how to provide them.
ju**** Posted January 4 *** is a measure of stability at it's most basic level and when you're more stable you can comfortably seek out other things in your hierarchy of needs.
wo**** Posted January 4 I’m not sure if I am following along with what you’re saying. I get the gist in a sense, but personal experience and perspectives based on your individual experience isn’t meant to explain things on a societal level. I agree *** or income doesn’t build relationships. Other things do. Points to consider- - something can initially attract that is completely separate from the process of connecting people and the qualities involved in strengthening the connection - attracting is one side, repelling is the opposite. Scrubs are not in high demand - I don’t recommend anyone try this even if you doubt that so just imagine. How long will your relationship continue if you’re ***, paycheck , and providing vanish?
Ma**** Posted January 4 Isn’t this space for to share your neich appreciation for being degraded by other blokes , champ? Seems like you’re confused with Andrew tates the real world membership forums. Did you post your sex chat there? Lol
Ms**** Posted January 4 It attracts to an extent. I'm in the middle of a divorce from a man who believes the same thing to his core and having financial stability is INCREDIBLY attractive to me personally because it means I'm safe with my partner and therefore I'm safe to allow myself to do more than just work and come home, but that can't be the only thing a man does in a relationship. There must be more substance in the relationship.
ey**** Posted January 4 4 hours ago, MDQC said: So my question, is why are men still placing value on being providers, if that doesn't attract and hasn't attracted in the last 30 years? In simple terms, while a lot has changed (especially in the last 15-20) a lot are getting teachings from fathers, or grandfathers, from legacy media, so on. And absolutely this once was a big thing - but this was also in the day where women couldn't actually have their own bank accounts so someone who could provide a good life was ranked ahead of even looks. Good income, job security? Done. I think a lot get stuck in this idea and it plots their own downfall.
ja**** Posted January 4 Because we all know the truth, no matter what good qualities a man has he still has to be the greater provider. Does that mean that women will never date a man that's broke. No of course not especially when they're older and women aren't looking to have a family. Or when they're very young and they're just about screwing around but when it comes to a woman looking for a long-term partner? There is something subconsciously unappealing about a man who isn't Master of the financial domain.
Ne**** Posted January 4 1 hour ago, jaxboro58399 said: Because we all know the truth, no matter what good qualities a man has he still has to be the greater provider. Does that mean that women will never date a man that's broke. No of course not especially when they're older and women aren't looking to have a family. Or when they're very young and they're just about screwing around but when it comes to a woman looking for a long-term partner? There is something subconsciously unappealing about a man who isn't Master of the financial domain. Uhhh this may be A truth, but not everyone's. I don't hang with women who subscribe to an overall notion that men need to be financial providers at all, let alone the sole or greater providers. I think women CAN subscribe to this, but I'd venture to say that a vast amount of women today want other things from men (jn general), like emotional awareness and intelligence, deep nurturing and support, true listening and absorbing, showing up authenticly to the relationship, saring in and or taking on aspects of the mental load, emotional load, manual labour surrounding childrearing & household tasks and so on rather than merely financial contribution. This world is set up for capitalism which makes *** super important and that *** of not having stands in many, most, if not all people's ways.
Ms**** Posted January 4 30 minutes ago, NexumSange said: Uhhh this may be A truth, but not everyone's. I don't hang with women who subscribe to an overall notion that men need to be financial providers at all, let alone the sole or greater providers. I think women CAN subscribe to this, but I'd venture to say that a vast amount of women today want other things from men (jn general), like emotional awareness and intelligence, deep nurturing and support, true listening and absorbing, showing up authenticly to the relationship, saring in and or taking on aspects of the mental load, emotional load, manual labour surrounding childrearing & household tasks and so on rather than merely financial contribution. This world is set up for capitalism which makes *** super important and that *** of not having stands in many, most, if not all people's ways. Exactly 💯 💯 💯
Ta**** Posted January 4 1 hour ago, jaxboro58399 said: Because we all know the truth, no matter what good qualities a man has he still has to be the greater provider. Does that mean that women will never date a man that's broke. No of course not especially when they're older and women aren't looking to have a family. Or when they're very young and they're just about screwing around but when it comes to a woman looking for a long-term partner? There is something subconsciously unappealing about a man who isn't Master of the financial domain. What a bitter outlook. No one I ever dated earned much more than me - and I always keep finances divided. I'm interested in personality, wit and looks - *** would not make up for either of them. Dating a beautiful, clever, engaging artist who does not do financially better than me (but also no hobosexual). More *** would be nice, but I find people whose only plus is in there bank account...not attractive at all.
Bl**** Posted January 4 43 minutes ago, TaliX said: What a bitter outlook. No one I ever dated earned much more than me - and I always keep finances divided. I'm interested in personality, wit and looks - *** would not make up for either of them. Dating a beautiful, clever, engaging artist who does not do financially better than me (but also no hobosexual). More *** would be nice, but I find people whose only plus is in there bank account...not attractive at all. One would hope so, well said
On**** Posted January 4 Great post! Blame the boomers they were all brainwashed into believing you had to live life a certain way. I was raised the same way. I chose to not continue that cycle with my offspring and it worked out pretty well. Do and be what makes you happy, be a good person, be supportive of your S.O. and family if you have them and be a good role model to your tiny humans. How much *** you make has no ties to your value!
El**** Posted January 4 The broad answer is capitalism + patriachy, a more narrow one is sociopaths thrive in amoral, competitive systems like this, material success is easly measured and people with the most *** and control want everybody to value human success by how they are successful and most of their relationships are transactional. That is one trickle down they are ok with
El**** Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, ElysiumTartarus said: The broad answer is capitalism + patriachy, a more narrow one is sociopaths thrive in amoral, competitive systems like this, material success is easly measured and people with the most *** and control want everybody to value human success by how they are successful and most of their relationships are transactional. That is one trickle down they are ok with But having enough *** not to worry does makes relationships easier 🫤
Do**** Posted January 4 I honestly didn’t know guys were being raised to think their value was in a pay check. That’s a very sad state of affairs, reducing a human to a number. Couldn’t be further from the truth. Yes I do ask what they do for a living to see what excites them. Is it an outdoor job, techy, working with people, engineering based etc. I’ve never wanted to know their earnings. Personality is absolutely the most important. Whether they look after themselves and are friendly and kind towards others. Can they chat, have banter, have a laugh…….. pay check has never been a thing! You’d be better freeing yourself from that expectation and living the life that ignites you!
Ga**** Posted January 4 I think the belief is held onto desperatly because thats all many men know. If youre brought up with values of a sort and then find out these values are... worthless? Im sure itd cause identity crisis like no other. Cognitive dissonance, panic, despair, the hurt of having spent so much time on a thing while being told its worth it, then finding out its not valuable after all? It must be devastating. Ive come to appreciate creativity and personality above all else. I dont like relying on someone, becoming... subservient to them and having to rely on their income. I dont mind being poor, you can be poor and comfortable, i just want an intelligent and empathetic partner. But im a girlie who likes to thrift and make use of the small things.
bl**** Posted January 4 i’m sorry this guy thinks *** is a virtue *** is evil and i am not a slave over *** *** comes and goes
Deleted Member Posted January 4 Author 9 hours ago, DonaFlor said: Because it's tangible - it's easy for men to say she's a golddigger and is only interested in my ***. Since women have become more financially independent (generally speaking in the US) we're seeking the green flags you listed above and most men don't know how to provide them. I was saying the opposite. I was asking why success is not working anymore. Known example: Like why are successful people getting passed over for guys with multiple DUIs and can't drive, when the when the woman is attractive and successful herself? And if we know this to be true and repeatable why do men and our society for that matter continue to support this lie of provider, instead of teaching social skills, emotional skills, and how to make friends with strangers. Looking at this clinically it makes no sense.
ak**** Posted January 4 Bro you are just now figuring this out after already having kids? Being a provider is a part of being a partner but it isn't everything. Some people value it more than others but just like being good looking; you can't only have that one thing. It's also important to be a decent person. That means self reflection and honesty
Deleted Member Posted January 4 Author 4 hours ago, TaliX said: What a bitter outlook. No one I ever dated earned much more than me - and I always keep finances divided. I'm interested in personality, wit and looks - *** would not make up for either of them. Dating a beautiful, clever, engaging artist who does not do financially better than me (but also no hobosexual). More *** would be nice, but I find people whose only plus is in there bank account...not attractive at all. This!!! This is what I am talking about, I know the landscape has changed from the 1950s but it's still being passed down and it think that is creating a lot of misunderstanding and relationship stresses with misguided efforts. So, now that I know people are on this same page, is there a way to fix this believe? How does one learn kindness, empathy, emotional intelligence, cleverness, personality, wit, and not be a 'lone wolf'? Looking for real thoughts, books, ideas, you think would be useful.
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