BDSM AND ***

[AKA_Copper]

For those that don't know, part of my role at work is to attend MARAC's (Multi Agency Risk Assessment Conferences). Those in attendance will, predominately be, reps from Health, Social Care, Housing and Police, the aim is to open lines of communication between agencies, determine next steps and safety plans. The aim is also to manage risk. We're talking serious risk inc. significant harm and death. It's in effort to prevent situations such as Baby P or Gemma Hayter occurring.

But CK, I hear you say, relevance?

Today there were 26 cases for discussion, waiting for mine I carried on working with one ear open, my attention was caught when I heard the words:

'extreme BDSM'.

An adult had made a disclosure about their partner engaging in BDSM, with them against their will. The detail which I won't share here for obvious reasons (and I'm pretty sure most wasn't shared today) first made me feel queasy (not a familiar feeling after 16yrs in the job), I then felt angry (I'm still angry) and then I checked here to see what posts there have been in relation to consent because this is where the BDSM activity became ***. The adult making the disclosure had not given consent to participate in kink. I'm sure there will be others in the comments who'll share that aspects of BDSM is also a criminal offence on the basis that no one is able to consent to being harmed (so says the Sexual Offences Act 2003 as well as the well known case - someone else can give you the title). There is however, just one post re consent in this forum, over a 12mth period!?

My favourite tool/resource to use at work (alongside Duluth's wheel of power and control) is the cup of tea video, for those that haven't seen it, message me and I'll share the link with you because I'm not sure I can post an external link in a forum? If I can, I'll post it in comments.

There are different types of consent:

1. Implied consent is consent inferred from a person's actions and the facts and circumstances of a particular situation (or in some cases, by a person's silence or inaction). Example, I recently agreed to meet a Dom to play with rope. In negotiation, it was agreed I'd be clothed in gym wear. I went wearing gym clothes, implying consent. I didn't actually agree to play with rope whilst I was there. Therefore I did not consent. The rope did not come out of its bag.

2. Informed consent is consent given by a person who has a clear appreciation and understanding of the facts, implications, and future consequences of an action. They can understand the specific information relevant to the decision, retain it for long enough to consider the pro's and con's of the facts to communicate a decision. This is mental capacity to consent to an action. It is written in law, see Mental Capacity Act 2005

3. Unanimous consent, by a group of several parties (e.g., an association), is informed consent given by all parties. Example, both the D type and the s type have given informed consent to an action.

Let me be clear, if neither (its not an and/or) 2 and 3 are evident, BDSM does not go ahead. Point 1 is not consent. I don't want to be at work discussing any one of you and the ***/s you have experienced.

NB: This is not solely directed at D types, we ALL have a part to play in decision making and consenting to something or not.

[AKA_Copper]

The cup of tea/consent video
https://youtu.be/pZwvrxVavnQ

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, CopperKnob said:

The cup of tea/consent video
https://youtu.be/pZwvrxVavnQ

never felt so uncomfortable about tea 

[Deleted Member]

really glad you posted this xx

[AKA_Copper]

17 minutes ago, FitGirl said:

never felt so uncomfortable about tea 

I hate tea 😂

[Deleted Member]

25 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

I hate tea 😂

i stick to coffee i always knew tea was dodgy 

[Deleted Member]

Great post ..

[Cu****]

And this way of behaving, in decision making, is emphasised in all working situations, in that if one person raises an issue, the others in the group have the responsibility to review what's previously been agreed. To ride rough shod over someone else, because they wouldn't agree to your agenda, demonstrates the extreme selfishness of the strongest individual, and is criminal in some instances. Unfortunately the word "compromise" doesn't appear in some people's vocabulary.
When chatting with a new sub, I always remind them that their desires and needs are the important issues for discussion, well before any kind of physical meet, and that if they're "shouted down", or told that their opinion doesn't count, then that's the point at which to delete the contact, and start with someone new.
I appreciate that your post probably refers to a partnership where one person has ***d their personal agenda onto someone not giving their consent.
Just for the record, I've been a party to such meetings professionally, where youngsters have inadvertently been exposed to the kind of adult behaviour that was inappropriate, but unfortunately has had mental and behavioural consequences. Responsibility, just either doesn't exist or flies out of the window in some relationships. Is this because of a "me, me, me, I want" society? I was always told, "I want, never gets."

[AKA_Copper]

14 minutes ago, CumbriaLeather said:

And this way of behaving, in decision making, is emphasised in all working situations, in that if one person raises an issue, the others in the group have the responsibility to review what's previously been agreed. To ride rough shod over someone else, because they wouldn't agree to your agenda, demonstrates the extreme selfishness of the strongest individual, and is criminal in some instances. Unfortunately the word "compromise" doesn't appear in some people's vocabulary.
When chatting with a new sub, I always remind them that their desires and needs are the important issues for discussion, well before any kind of physical meet, and that if they're "shouted down", or told that their opinion doesn't count, then that's the point at which to delete the contact, and start with someone new.
I appreciate that your post probably refers to a partnership where one person has ***d their personal agenda onto someone not giving their consent.
Just for the record, I've been a party to such meetings professionally, where youngsters have inadvertently been exposed to the kind of adult behaviour that was inappropriate, but unfortunately has had mental and behavioural consequences. Responsibility, just either doesn't exist or flies out of the window in some relationships. Is this because of a "me, me, me, I want" society? I was always told, "I want, never gets."

I agree with most of what you've said other than regarding compromising, consent shouldn't be something which either party should compromise in any meaning of the word. You either have consent or not, its that black and white for me

[StickyTrickster]

I’d also chuck in a caution about negotiating with the pleasure monkey.

What’s the pleasure monkey?  The pleasure monkey is the part of our brain that loves to seek out pleasure and thinks in very short term goals as it seeks instant gratification.  The only thing stopping our pleasure monkey from bursting into the nearest dessert store and gorging itself on everything it can see until it gets sick is the Monkey’s Keeper that having internalised all the social rules attempts to keep the monkey under control and behaving in an acceptable manner.

But there are occasions when people are aroused that the Pleasure Monkey has taken control and wants to indulge in whatever it feels like, damn the consequences – many might recognise the Monkey’s piloting from sub-frenzy for example.

Whilst the Pleasure Monkey might enthusiastically think playing out their porn star fantasy by getting frisky on Chaturbate is a fantastic idea, whilst the Monkey may understand the consequences and know of the Keeper’s concerns such as “what if the boss sees it,” the Monkey largely doesn’t give a shit.  But at the end of the day it is the Keeper side of the brain that will have to deal with the consequences.

In terms of tea think of this as offering Tea and not only do they agree they want Tea but say yes to 6 teaspoons of sugar, whipped cream, marshmallows, sprinkles, chocolate and toffee sauce, cherries, a liquidated Krispy Kreme doughnut and a bucket of Cadbury Heroes being dumped on top of the cup of Tea.

If you think you might be in a situation where you might be negotiating with a Sub’s pleasure monkey for a scene their Keeper might have second thoughts on then rather than rush in to do it as soon as possible, leave a period of time such as a week in which the Keeper part of their brain can reflect on what they’re asking for before a final negotiation on it.  They might decide they don’t really want to do it after all.  They might perhaps instead want to modify it to be more comfortable with it – say instead of live-streaming on Chaturbate (to continue previous example), they would rather it be a private home movie between you both or perhaps they just want the cameras turned off on tripods to act merely as props whilst fantasising they’re running.  They might decide they’re fine with everything negotiated and want to boot up Chaturbate anyway.

Going back to the Tea the equivalent would be saying, “I don’t have all those ingredients this week but if you’d like to do it next week you can get them if you let me know you still want it,” for which they have a week to decide if they still want the Tea as ordered, to modify it (say wanting half a bucket of Cadbury’s Heroes instead of a full one) or whether perhaps they don’t want Tea at all.

Whilst technically from a legal perspective the pleasure monkey is capable of understanding all the consequences of decisions it makes wouldn’t you rather your partner being able to trust that you will always do your best to look out for their best interests than one that they wind up regretting doing something with?

Thought I’d chuck that in as I doubt they gave much consideration to the likes of Sub Frenzy at the last MASH conference as trying to acknowledge it given the legal status of BDSM in the UK sort of throws a spanner in the works.