Needles, *** the ultimate limit?

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6 minutes ago, onecrow said:

Again, I don’t think that I’m saying that people’s experiences or desires aren’t valid.

And again, the difference between needle play for kink and medical injections is magnitudes; it’s this misperception that’s actually part of the issue.

If people don’t want to it’s fine. But when we say yes or no to anything it’s worth knowing what it actually is and what the actual risks are.

Information is good! I’m sure we both agree on that. ;)

I think its also clear that you might not grasp the mental side of bdsm and that peoples limits and ***s may largely not be based on technicalities.

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27 minutes ago, clear_spring said:

I think its also clear that you might not grasp the mental side of bdsm and that peoples limits and ***s may largely not be based on technicalities.

Okay now you’re just being silly. Accusing me of not grasping the mental side of BDSM is a little ridiculous. I appreciate the dialogue but I think we’re done here.

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4 minutes ago, onecrow said:

Okay now you’re just being silly. Accusing me of not grasping the mental side of BDSM is a little ridiculous. I appreciate the dialogue but I think we’re done here.

Your words in your original post: 'I may also just not be understanding'

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2 minutes ago, clear_spring said:

Your words in your original post: 'I may also just not be understanding'

I may not be understanding why it’s a limit for some people. Which was an invitation for people to share with me so I could better understand the range of reasons.

I don’t think that saying I’m interested in knowing more about people’s antipathies means I’m ignorant about the emotional side of BDSM.

Do you feel that I’ve negated peoples’ experiences and feelings about it here? Is that the issue?

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7 minutes ago, onecrow said:

Okay now you’re just being silly. Accusing me of not grasping the mental side of BDSM is a little ridiculous. I appreciate the dialogue but I think we’re done here.

The dissonance tou are describing is that you don't understand why needleplay is considered a hard limit for many people, despite your assertion that it is safer than XYZ. My thoughts are that *** and limits are subjective. And that we have all already had lived experiences with needles and formed opinions, so its not an ultimate limit. One safer practitioner may not change that for the majority of people no matter how much 'information' (which at the moment looks baseless) is being given.

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7 minutes ago, onecrow said:

I may not be understanding why it’s a limit for some people. Which was an invitation for people to share with me so I could better understand the range of reasons.

I don’t think that saying I’m interested in knowing more about people’s antipathies means I’m ignorant about the emotional side of BDSM.

Do you feel that I’ve negated peoples’ experiences and feelings about it here? Is that the issue?

Limits are based on boundaries, that could be motivated by *** of both knowns and unknowns. *** is a basic survival and threat reaction emotion. So I would say that if someone doesn't understand others boundaries about this, they are also not understanding emotion and risk. On a v basic level, the skin barrier is our boundary to the world and ALOT of people are not cool with cutting or ***, even if its done by a person who claimed they are super safe

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6 minutes ago, clear_spring said:

The dissonance tou are describing is that you don't understand why needleplay is considered a hard limit for many people, despite your assertion that it is safer than XYZ. My thoughts are that *** and limits are subjective. And that we have all already had lived experiences with needles and formed opinions, so its not an ultimate limit. One safer practitioner may not change that for the majority of people no matter how much 'information' (which at the moment looks baseless) is being given.

I see. That’s a fair point.

In terms of the science of BSI, it’s just that — science. Gloves and sterile needles in standard needle play are always going to be safer than unprotected sex unless someone is a hemophiliac.

I’m a former EMT, so my understanding of BSI and fluid transmission risks is pretty solid.

I worry that people are acting based on poor understanding of these risks. I guess that that’s what I’m saying.

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4 minutes ago, clear_spring said:

Limits are based on boundaries, that could be motivated by *** of both knowns and unknowns. *** is a basic survival and threat reaction emotion. So I would say that if someone doesn't understand others boundaries about this, they are also not understanding emotion and risk. On a v basic level, the skin barrier is our boundary to the world and ALOT of people are not cool with cutting or ***, even if its done by a person who claimed they are super safe

I think I understand your objection here. To you, a limit is a limit and asking further is pointless since a limit doesn’t need to have a reason, as it can simply be emotional and still be valid.

And to you, my questioning that means that I don’t understand or respect that it can simply be how someone feels.

Further, you think that my asserting that some of the reasons are illogical means that I am trying to convince people to do something they otherwise wouldn’t and that’s where I’m boundary pushing. Does that sound right?

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7 minutes ago, onecrow said:

I think I understand your objection here. To you, a limit is a limit and asking further is pointless since a limit doesn’t need to have a reason, as it can simply be emotional and still be valid.

And to you, my questioning that means that I don’t understand or respect that it can simply be how someone feels.

Further, you think that my asserting that some of the reasons are illogical means that I am trying to convince people to do something they otherwise wouldn’t and that’s where I’m boundary pushing. Does that sound right?

'Reasons are illogical' for one, if I said this to a submissive potential play partner about their limits, they would have a right to blacklist imo. Because I am not here to challenge their boundaries if they have not consented to it.

I think you as an EMT are maybe desensitized to the concerns of people who do not touch needles at all unless medically necessary. Speaking as someone involved in doctor training.

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13 minutes ago, onecrow said:

I see. That’s a fair point.

In terms of the science of BSI, it’s just that — science. Gloves and sterile needles in standard needle play are always going to be safer than unprotected sex unless someone is a hemophiliac.

I’m a former EMT, so my understanding of BSI and fluid transmission risks is pretty solid.

I worry that people are acting based on poor understanding of these risks. I guess that that’s what I’m saying.

I would personally be more concerned that someone is being coerced into doing or trying something they already said no to based on 'facts' given by one person. This would be the same for recreational drug use.

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11 minutes ago, clear_spring said:

I would personally be more concerned that someone is being coerced into doing or trying something they already said no to based on 'facts' given by one person. This would be the same for recreational drug use.

I see. I appreciate your opinion on this; you’ve given me some things to think about.