The underlying psychology of masochism and sadism

[Am****]

I want to ask something: are your views on BDSM based on personal experiences, or do they stem from a psychological foundation that includes books such as Leopold von Sacher-Masoch's Venus in Furs and Marquis de Sade's The 120 Days of Sodom? Also, is there anyone you would recommend for researching its psychological background?

[ho****]

Due to my experience I would say it came out of either trauma or a personal experience within my past that gave me that insight.

[Am****]

10 dakika önce, hope-mills97333 said:

Due to my experience I would say it came out of either trauma or a personal experience within my past that gave me that insight.

I'm trying to better understand the psychological foundations of BDSM. Do you see it primarily as something that develops through experiences and conditioning during adolescence, or as an expression of deeper cognitive and emotional drives that emerge from more fundamental aspects of human psychology? Could BDSM dynamics also be interpreted through archetypal frameworks, such as the story of Artemis and Actaeon, where themes of power, transgression, punishment, desire, and forbidden knowledge are symbolically intertwined? More broadly, when exploring the roots of BDSM, would you approach it mainly through developmental psychology, cognitive psychology, psychoanalytic theory, evolutionary psychology, or mythological and archetypal analysis? Are there particular theories, authors, or research areas you would recommend for someone who wants to understand its psychological foundations in greater depth?

[Ma****]

I would say mine simply stem from someone who made me believe in something I didn't believe in

[Cade]

First, personal experience for me (as a survivor of childhood trauma and abüse); then later, I found out about sadism and the Marquis. His philosophy of human nature and romance helped me better understand the interest and desires I had instilled during my developmental period. So, I'd definitely say it was a bit of both.

Edited July 23 by Cade

[su****]

i was born like this ✌️✌️

[Lo****]

I tried to find out about that too, but came to the conclusion, that one simply cannot tell in general. Often it’s trauma based, leaning against patriarchal values or experiences one made….there are theories yes, but does that really matter?
I try to get to know the person I want to do things with, the best I can. It’s about acceptance and evolving together, so I stopped thinking about deeper reasons and live more in the presence.
I’m sorry, that doesn’t really answer your question, that’s only my evolution of being in the BDSM world🫶🏻🌞

[Cade]

1 hour ago, LovedLady said:

I tried to find out about that too, but came to the conclusion, that one simply cannot tell in general. Often it’s trauma based, leaning against patriarchal values or experiences one made….there are theories yes, but does that really matter?
I try to get to know the person I want to do things with, the best I can. It’s about acceptance and evolving together, so I stopped thinking about deeper reasons and live more in the presence.
I’m sorry, that doesn’t really answer your question, that’s only my evolution of being in the BDSM world🫶🏻🌞

I think for some people (myself included), knowing the "why" helps with personal acceptance. I know for me, it was difficult overcoming some common mental conflicts revolving around common societal programming (eg: "päin is bad and to be avoided", "protect the ones you love", "men don't hit women", etc) versus the raging and ravenous desire of sadism to express our love and intimacy with intense sensations like päin and hümiliation. Feelings of guilt, shame, and negative self image can easily become overwhelming if one doesn't know why they do the things we do - and let's face it, the difficult truth is by accepting our sadistic nature and expressing it, we separate ourselves from the greater masses: partly as they ignorantly *** sadists based on the negative connotation, and partly to protect ourselves from the torches and pitchforks.

Being able to understand our "why" also helps in communicating our need/wants/expectations to others, I find. This helps when explaining an unusual (or scary) desire as it can help shape the shared understanding for intent, which I feel is a vital aspect of the s/m dynamic and forming trust for these activities. Of course, the "why" may not matter to everyone, and that's okay, too!

Edited July 23 by Cade

[Lo****]

35 minutes ago, Cade said:

I think for some people (myself included), knowing the "why" helps with personal acceptance. I know for me, it was difficult overcoming some common mental conflicts revolving around common societal programming (eg: "päin is bad and to be avoided", "protect the ones you love", "men don't hit women", etc) versus the raging and ravenous desire of sadism to express our love and intimacy with intense sensations like päin and hümiliation. Feelings of guilt, shame, and negative self image can easily become overwhelming if one doesn't know why they do the things we do - and let's face it, the difficult truth is by accepting our sadistic nature and expressing it, we separate ourselves from the greater masses: partly as they ignorantly *** sadists based on the negative connotation, and partly to protect ourselves from the torches and pitchforks.

Being able to understand our "why" also helps in communicating our need/wants/expectations to others, I find. This helps when explaining an unusual (or scary) desire as it can help shape the shared understanding for intent, which I feel is a vital aspect of the s/m dynamic and forming trust for these activities. Of course, the "why" may not matter to everyone, and that's okay, too!

Maybe I didn’t delivered my opinion exactly enough 🥴 I do want to know, but individually not in general- that’s what I meant (German- language barrier 😅)

[ey****]

I think one of the biggest factors is that there are a lot of different reasons for a lot of different people.  Whilst a lot of actual research is limited, a lot of what they came up with was inconclusive.  (For example, you could condition some people to have, say, a fetish - but not others) 

There are a lot of common tropes - for example, in men a lot who are rich and succesful or in positions of leadership or authority..... often being submissive in a kink context because they want an environment where none of that matters, where they can let go, where they don't have to be the person in charge

However, of course - there are also people who say "I am rich/succesful/leader/authority and that is why I am a good Dominant" which ties in with what I was saying about things being inconclusive.

[Fu****]

Personal experience, psychology is at best anecdotal and frankly little more than dangerous quackology.
I can take it or leave it, if a lady wants(needs?) to be dominated and whipped im happy to indulge but its nothing something I need (although I did once slap a lady in the face during sex and she said my cock got so hard she thought I was going to damage her, so who knows wtf that was).
Some people like scary movies, some people like climbing cliffs, some people like jumping out of planes, some people like jumping out of planes and killing people when they land. People are weird, our monkey brains evolved to store food for the winter, now we go to space 3x a week.

[an****]

A General Theory of Love by Thomas Lewis, Fari Amini, and Richard Lannon.

It's not a BDSM book. It's about how the nervous systems regulate each other. Why people crave being led or leading. How early attachment shapes adult attraction. Links between safety and surrender. Why consistent partners feel attractive or boring.
How bonding changes the brain. And a little bit of a lot more. The texts you mentioned are over 100 years old, still interesting to read but I would argue their relevance.

BDSM and relationship psychology is more like sun exposure. People love the sun or don't or don't know or are just oblivious to it, but the sun influences a lot of people in their specific ways with or without their own knowledge and asking questions like 'do you tan' limits the magnitudes of influence the sun has on the whole scope of human reality.

To fully understand S & M find the roots that start long before the terms are defined.

The S and the M are also so broad it's hard to start at the major terms. People seek these letters for power exchange, ritual, attachment, taboo, etc. and can be tied to a current job, a title, a past, an idea, etc. if you want to know why there is salt on a fry and you start with who is Ronald McDonald, it's not wrong, but you are really far from your answer.

[an****]

Yesterday at 02:49 AM, Amadeus0 said:

I'm trying to better understand the psychological foundations of BDSM. Do you see it primarily as something that develops through experiences and conditioning during adolescence, or as an expression of deeper cognitive and emotional drives that emerge from more fundamental aspects of human psychology? Could BDSM dynamics also be interpreted through archetypal frameworks, such as the story of Artemis and Actaeon, where themes of power, transgression, punishment, desire, and forbidden knowledge are symbolically intertwined? More broadly, when exploring the roots of BDSM, would you approach it mainly through developmental psychology, cognitive psychology, psychoanalytic theory, evolutionary psychology, or mythological and archetypal analysis? Are there particular theories, authors, or research areas you would recommend for someone who wants to understand its psychological foundations in greater depth?

I really appreciate your addition here. Beginnings are focused on (heavily) because they are beginnings and that is a useful thing to remember.

No one says 'he became a good bicycle rider' because of conditioning during adolescence, but that is just as accurate.

However, just because adolescence is the 'normal' time to learn reading, writing, how to get hit, bike riding, swimming, learning your body is good/gross, shame, pride, etc, it doesn't restrict these from being learned in adulthood, not at all, or expanded on. Good, bad, or indifferent.

Using the logic embedded in your questions is exactly how you get to the understanding you are seeking.

[Slutkie]

July 23, Cade said:

I think for some people (myself included), knowing the "why" helps with personal acceptance. I know for me, it was difficult overcoming some common mental conflicts revolving around common societal programming (eg: "päin is bad and to be avoided", "protect the ones you love", "men don't hit women", etc) versus the raging and ravenous desire of sadism to express our love and intimacy with intense sensations like päin and hümiliation. Feelings of guilt, shame, and negative self image can easily become overwhelming if one doesn't know why they do the things we do - and let's face it, the difficult truth is by accepting our sadistic nature and expressing it, we separate ourselves from the greater masses: partly as they ignorantly *** sadists based on the negative connotation, and partly to protect ourselves from the torches and pitchforks.

Being able to understand our "why" also helps in communicating our need/wants/expectations to others, I find. This helps when explaining an unusual (or scary) desire as it can help shape the shared understanding for intent, which I feel is a vital aspect of the s/m dynamic and forming trust for these activities. Of course, the "why" may not matter to everyone, and that's okay, too!

Knowing the "why"... I am trying to find material on this for my beloved, who wants to explore into his sadism but has those natural (probably healthy) feelings of conflict around it. And he has asked me the "why" of my masochism, which I can articulate up to a point- but searches for thoughtful blog posts, articles etc are just throwing up the standard vague psychology today stuff and annoying listicles from sites that have clearly mastered the SEO but little else!

So I've joined this site to see what the forum is like - doesn't seem like an abundant resource as yet, but people themselves are often abundant resources. Open to discussion with anyone joining this thread, but particularly looking for good sources of learning.