Submission and consent

[da****]

3 hours ago, olderforfun1252 said:

This question gives off 🚩🚩🚩

Mans is trying to be responsible. How is that a red flag? Genuinely curious by this take.

[tw****]

4 hours ago, york258320 said:

Discussing it before hand, identifying boundaries and what is consented, use a safe word, respect them…. If you do all these you can gain true submission but with respect and consent. Hope that helps

I agree. This sounds respectful and safe for all parties and still holds the intention of the Dom and sub dynamics.

[Ja****]

This is stupid? Submitting is literally giving consent. If someone doesn’t give consent they aren’t submitting, that’s just ***.

[Ze****]

I appreciate everyone who took the time to give genuine answers to the question💚

I am meanwhile surprised at the number of defensive or even aggressive responses… is it not ok for people to be new to things? Would we not prefer they ask the question to get informed responses rather than practice without having asked these questions?😕

[4R****]

7 hours ago, olderforfun1252 said:

This question gives off 🚩🚩🚩

Why do you say that?

[4R****]

4 hours ago, LilRain said:

you sound like a walking red flag and dont deserve to call yourself a dom.

just because someone is submissive doesnt mean they give up their body and consent.

a real true dom knows that the sub holds the power.

Where does he call himself a Dom? The personal attack was a little uncalled for. He sounds like someone who’s new and trying to get his head around the lifestyle, from that angle, this is a perfectly reasonable question!

[4R****]

3 hours ago, Jacob2004MB said:

This is stupid? Submitting is literally giving consent. If someone doesn’t give consent they aren’t submitting, that’s just ***.

There’s no such thing as a stupid question when you are trying to gain an understanding. 

[4R****]

At first glance, “submission” and “consent” might sound like opposites, how can you willingly give up control while still being in control of giving it up? 
 

To be clear, Consent and Submission are NOT the same thing and understanding the difference is key. Consent is the agreement: “I choose to play this game with you. Here are my limits, safewords, and preferences. If I ever say stop, we stop.” Submission is the act of playing the game:“ I’m kneeling. You’re in charge. I trust you. Let’s go.
 

Consent sets the rules, and submission happens within those rules. One is the contract, the other is the experience. Imagine I say, “I want you to be in charge in the bedroom. You can tell me what to do but if I say ‘pineapple,’ we pause.” That’s consent. Now imagine I’m on my knees, following your commands, totally in the zone. That’s submission but it only works because I chose to be there and can unchose it at any time.

Without consent, submission isn’t submission, it’s ***. And that’s not BDSM, that’s just *** with extra steps.

In response to the suggestion that submitting is consent, nothing could be further from the truth.

Think of consent as the safety harness, and submission as the rollercoaster. You strap in so you can safely let go. However once you’re in the rollercoaster and it’s started moving, you change your mind and decide you don’t want to be there. You can’t stop the rollercoaster even though you’ve withdrawn your consent. You still have to submit to the ride because it’s started and rollercoasters don’t have safe-words.
 

Equally a safeword is only as good as the people using it and if the safe word is called and ignored and play continues, the bottom is still submitting to whatever happens (they have no choice) but consent has been withdrawn.

Another example, someone is convicted of a crime and are sent to prison, they don’t consent to being locked up but they have to submit to it, and the associated regime.
 

Ergo, submission is not consent. They are mutually exclusive and you need to ensure you have both!

[on****]

I was going to read other people's comments, but they were extensive, and that's way too much work. Safe word. It's not a difficult concept.

[ey****]

8 hours ago, daddyTac253 said:

Mans is trying to be responsible. How is that a red flag? Genuinely curious by this take.

A few folk have asked this and I'll give my take.

It is *probably* just a wording thing or an understanding thing - making it good for him to clarify.

But the implication by the OP was "it's not true submission if she consents" - that's how it sounds.  Which is, sadly, a technique abusive Dominants have used in the past to manipulate their submissives.  I can understand why it sets a few folks klaxons off

[Th****]

You gotta consent to anything they want. If you don't like something, communicate. If they don't like that, you leave.

[Ja****]

7 hours ago, 4RCH said:

There’s no such thing as a stupid question when you are trying to gain an understanding. 

I appreciate the words of wisdom. Good point, I’d say I just disagree with how it’s worded. Thank you for reminding me.

[mr****]

When I ask woman if they’re submissive they say yes. I ask how submissive. They say completely.. I say ok that’s 💯 that means no safe word. They think twice .. usually they’re about 30% … haha

[JackJonesHull]

The simplest answer is "understanding".

The implications of that though is far from simple. Understanding takes communication and discussion, understanding takes time and the desire to understand.

I am of course answering from my own experience and point of view. I'm certain some will go to hell in your own way either with or without regret.

[MJ****]

I think the question is not about why one should give consent beforehand
I think it’s about how do one feel “true” submission afterwards
When he knows that everything happens because he wanted it and in boundaries he settled
My opinion- you should think of it as a switch. When you consent - that’s how you turn your Mistress on - then she gets what she wants
Like a vampire 😅 he needs permission to enter the house but when it’s given nothing will stop the *** pouring 😈

[ra****]

Submission is earned. Anyone who truly respects the fundamental principles of mutual trust and respect in a power exchange dynamic knows that consent should never be assumed.

[St****]

By having conversations and setting boundaries early on. Continuing to respect said boundaries as the dynamic goes on, and anytime something new is introduced you make sure the submissive is ok proceeding forward with it, even if it’s just watching body language and sounds.

[th****]

IN SCENE is play pretend

[Si****]

Saturday at 09:03 PM, Maker_Trey said:

My first question would be: how do you define “true submission”? In my experience, even in a Master/slave dynamic, there’s always an element of consent and negotiation, at least at the beginning. I’ve had partners who were deeply and genuinely submissive without ever giving up their free will or compromising their consent or boundaries.

For me, consent is king. There’s nothing more important in any relationship, kink or otherwise. With that said, I’ve never practiced, nor do I have a desire to practice, a Total Power Exchange (TPE). I’m not knocking it, it’s simply not my cup of tea.

From my stand point “True Submission” would be a comfort trust, respect, intimacy and love thing to where the person FREELY submits mind, body and soul (NOT in a TPE kinda way)

Frankly it goes both ways and is mutual.

Without true submission (opening oneself up) things such as taking a sub to subspace (which require trust during vulnerability, and to be relaxed enough with someone) couldn’t happen.


But in the end all couples and dynamics are different so its really hard to put one definition into a box.

[Si****]

Saturday at 09:28 PM, olderforfun1252 said:

This question gives off 🚩🚩🚩

Hmm in re reading it a few times, yeah i can see possible flags.

[Th****]

I think the Crux of the issue here and why people are so concerned. Is a lack of understanding of the nature of submission and of consent. I think this also falls into the category of “reality vs fantasy”. It’s widely accepted that, while a submissive chooses to give up control, they’re ultimately always the one that has the control, as they can stop at any time, that’s where consent comes in. I think there is a conflation of submissive and slave here also. Those that wish to give up all control and consent, can seek a master slave dynamic. But, ultimately, that is a fantasy vs reality, because in reality, assuming an ethical and healthy dynamic, the slave can always take take control and consent back. So consent never really goes way, it’s just chosen not to enact it, while that’s desired.

[su****]

1 hour ago, TheFilthEngineer said:

I think the Crux of the issue here and why people are so concerned. Is a lack of understanding of the nature of submission and of consent. I think this also falls into the category of “reality vs fantasy”. It’s widely accepted that, while a submissive chooses to give up control, they’re ultimately always the one that has the control, as they can stop at any time, that’s where consent comes in. I think there is a conflation of submissive and slave here also. Those that wish to give up all control and consent, can seek a master slave dynamic. But, ultimately, that is a fantasy vs reality, because in reality, assuming an ethical and healthy dynamic, the slave can always take take control and consent back. So consent never really goes way, it’s just chosen not to enact it, while that’s desired.

This is modern way, I am a newbie but I believe things were different in old school... Admitting this breaks the magic, even if unlawful, let's admit there will be a situation where we actually lose control and we actually are in the hands of the master/mistress, it's not only romantic, it's true, regardless of the legal consequences that he or she may face afterwards, in that moment, you're bound, gagged, tied to a smother box... seconds away from a certain death... with or without consent. There's the matter of reality/fantasy and there's the matter of trust, which is most important since accidents can happen...

[Th****]

How old school are you going back? I’ve been in this scene and lifestyle almost two decades.
Consent is and always has been the cornerstone of the BDSM lifestyle and community. For those that don’t like how consent ties into BDSM and want to work around it or ignore it, stating things like “you’re not a true sub if you xxxx”, these aren’t kinksters, Dom, masters etc they’re ***rs that how found the scene and see it as a way to “get away with” what they can’t in vanilla life. You mention trust, for there to be trust, for there to even be the necessity for trust, there must be consent. If there is no consent, what are you trusting the person to abide by?

[De****]

The consent is really for safety and to give you both a chance to get to exchange information on do's & don't, soft and hard limits to pretty much open communication period...

[De****]

Submissive well no trust no anything period.... dominant / submissive comes from trust period. If no trust there is nothing to do or talk about period