Subs playing with other doms...

[Ta****]

Wasn't sure which category to pic, but possinly an age old question.

In any D/s dynamic I have always been comfortable with my sub playing with other men/people with a penis. However, I feel as though I am in a minority on this one. For a bit of context I am ENM, specifically polyamorous (which might play into it).

Nb. The reason I specify people with a penis is that it can include people who identify as other genders but have a penis and present more masc; often then being misgendered as cis male.

Another clarification is, if it is another Dom, this does not apply to overlapping aspects of things like being a caregiver. It relates solely to play, as otherwise this could lead to contradictory and confusing messages. It could very well be possible to work on a dynamic where this works, but it is not something I have been in a possition to explore. It also is not just about kink. The man/person with a penis they are with could have a different type of ENM dynamic that has nothing to do with D/s relationships.

Within this there is also no requirement that we "only play together" as I am fully comfortable with them having other relationships (again down to being polyam). It is down to all of us to consent to the types of interactions we have within a polycule. It is also the case that I am comfortable to play with another man/person with a penis (of any sexuallity) as the three of us. So no requirement to be looking for "only women or couples."

My experience on here is that D/s couples follow the opposite of me and I wonder if I am in a minority, and why. From Doms and subs I'd like to hear your perspectives on within D/s relationships you are either ok or not with inviting men/people with a penis, as a group or allowing a sub to play solo.

I have my own thoughts, but likely biased by my echo chamber of my mind and what I have read, as well as being polyam, so I'd like to hear other perspectives directly.

[PL****]

I am a submissive who is ENM and who lives D/s dynamic relationships within FWB relationships. I have also, previously been in PolyCues as well. I have also lived in LTR's that were monogamous but we allowed partners into our dynamics occasionally. In each case I had contracts or agreements (before I knew contracts were a thing) with my partners and as long as each agreed to their own dynamics within the relationship and that each partner was consented upon by the partners I was with, none of my doms ever seemed to have an issue with it. I dont know if Im one of the outliers like you yourself believe you are, but I have found most men/women who are okay with ENM are okay with a second penis or multiple penises in the relationship as long as terms are agreed upon prior by all parties involved.

[ey****]

So, in a minority... probably... but, most folk with different kinks/fetishes/dynamics are in some form of minority within the kink sphere - but the dynamic you describe is not overly uncommon 

like, even to the extent that there's people I know or have met who wouldn't describe themselves as ENM/etc but would permit their subs to play with others at events in some scenarios, or play with subs themselves 

I do guess controlling the sexual identification of the person the sub is permitted to play with can be a bit... eyebrow raising...  but yeah, this isn't uncommon 

[Ta****]

51 minutes ago, PLEASEandTEASEme said:

I am a submissive who is ENM and who lives D/s dynamic relationships within FWB relationships. I have also, previously been in PolyCues as well. I have also lived in LTR's that were monogamous but we allowed partners into our dynamics occasionally. In each case I had contracts or agreements (before I knew contracts were a thing) with my partners and as long as each agreed to their own dynamics within the relationship and that each partner was consented upon by the partners I was with, none of my doms ever seemed to have an issue with it. I dont know if Im one of the outliers like you yourself believe you are, but I have found most men/women who are okay with ENM are okay with a second penis or multiple penises in the relationship as long as terms are agreed upon prior by all parties involved.

That's good to know. I also wonder about the ones who don't identify somewhere under the ENM umbrella but still invite others in to play, but where people of particular sexual/gender identifications are not permitted.

[Ta****]

37 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

So, in a minority... probably... but, most folk with different kinks/fetishes/dynamics are in some form of minority within the kink sphere - but the dynamic you describe is not overly uncommon 

like, even to the extent that there's people I know or have met who wouldn't describe themselves as ENM/etc but would permit their subs to play with others at events in some scenarios, or play with subs themselves 

I do guess controlling the sexual identification of the person the sub is permitted to play with can be a bit... eyebrow raising...  but yeah, this isn't uncommon 

I think that is one thing that I am curious about, those who don't identify as ENM in some way, and are also restrictive in sexual/gender identities partners can play with. I can only come at it from my experience. To the same extent I can consent to a partner playing with anyone (as long as they are safe) someone can ask that their partner only play with certain people, and their partner consent to that. However, it always is the same scenario whereby it is men/people with a penis which is the non permitted part. That is as you say eyebrow raising to me. Which is why I also wonder from a subs perspective where in their relationship that desire/need comes from.

[ey****]

I think if you get into the typical "One Penis Policy" and the problems, is that it is about who is making the choices.  Which usually ties in with male fantasies and/or insecurities rather than their partners own choices and free will. (same is true for one vulva policies) 

 

I guess a little bit is... "ok, but I'm a Dominant and ergo I can make choices/restrictions on my subs other potential relationships/play/dynamics" which does happen a lot, but it's a case of how reasonable is that can depend on the individual dynamics. 

 

[Ta****]

4 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I think if you get into the typical "One Penis Policy" and the problems, is that it is about who is making the choices.  Which usually ties in with male fantasies and/or insecurities rather than their partners own choices and free will. (same is true for one vulva policies) 

 

I guess a little bit is... "ok, but I'm a Dominant and ergo I can make choices/restrictions on my subs other potential relationships/play/dynamics" which does happen a lot, but it's a case of how reasonable is that can depend on the individual dynamics. 

 

That's where one penis policies appear to come in to play more than it would appear. Many people appear to be open to "Woman, Trans, Non-Binary" but not "Men," as restrictive as gender identification is on FET. So how are people with a penis who are non-binary, trans, gender fluid, etc. etc. viewed in these dynamics. FET is a bit annoying as it has me stuck as male but identify as non-binary (gender non-conforming to be precise) ans I've emailed to get it changed. On many occasions I have been told, from those dynamic, that I am not non-binary as I am too masc presenting and/or because I have a penis. Then it comes across that it is the male gaze rearing it's head that people with a vagina, no matter how they present, are acceptable as non-binary, or any other gender identities.

[ey****]

I can tell you a lot of the problem with that is that - a lot of dating sites use an off-the-shelf bundle they install which basically permits something like 5 options.   So you end up with this 'male', 'female', 'couple', 'trans', 'non-binary' and it causes it's own issues.  So that "trans" becomes a catch all and leans towards trans women, effectively erasing trans men - and non-binary can be limiting - this is before we get into many idendities this limitation erases.

[Ne****]

Great topic and points. I'll say it - men controlling women. That's a huge part of every dynamic in human life. It isn't the only aspect to talk about, but a major and important one and starting place for discussions like this.

@eyemblacksheep laid things out succinctly.

Also on the discussion table, social acceptance, core beliefs, how one were raised, religion, mental health status.. sexuality, Perception of each of these and other aspects!

Many folks who claim Polyam and or ENM, respectively, have their own ideas of what these mean/mean for themselves. We ARE free to define and engage in the dynamics and philosophies of our choosing and or making..

I myself am theoretically Polyamorous: I have believed, since childhood, that people can love/be in love with more than one person at a given time + that is never "wrong", whilst also recognising the logistical difficulty, as well as the mental and emotional loads which are present and all the machinations which are necessary to proceed in such situations.
This alone makes the responsibility of many dynamics 'too much' for those who merely want(ed) to perhaps just have more sex and sextivities etcetera.

I found out decades ago that My Polyam mind isn't the typical Polyam mind of most folks engaging in it/the perceptions/the reasons behind it and so on.

For me, when it's more about Dynamics and titles and rules than it is about the relationship with the person regardless of what kind of relationship it is, that's when I'm out. This is where I run into roadblocks with other folks and we part ways or don't even get started.

Do YOU view how You think and feel regarding Polyamoury as a problem at all, or just noticing the differences within and among the Polyam community itself?

[Ta****]

8 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I can tell you a lot of the problem with that is that - a lot of dating sites use an off-the-shelf bundle they install which basically permits something like 5 options.   So you end up with this 'male', 'female', 'couple', 'trans', 'non-binary' and it causes it's own issues.  So that "trans" becomes a catch all and leans towards trans women, effectively erasing trans men - and non-binary can be limiting - this is before we get into many idendities this limitation erases.

However, on Feeld the same pattern arrises despite having over 20 identities on there. From my perspective and background (archaeologically and anthropologicaly) there are more identities in time and space than we can imagine, and for the most part have a western bias and gatekeeping, in many cases, of identities. I can't get mad if someone sees me as "male" based upon their own cultural background as more people will associate different, sometimes opposing, identies to me than I can have from my own perspective. However, thats where couples, particularly m dom/f sub seem disingenuous when eliminating "male" as a gender but including "couples, trans, non-binary" if their gaze is based upon sexual organs. Don't get me wrong, I am more than happy with my my relationships/dynamics and don't want to be involved with a couple where I feel my identity and sexuallity doesn't fit. However, I can't help but feel that it creates a toxic view of D/s relationships where gender and biological sex and/or sexual organs are conflated without any good reason other than male/dom insecurities.

[Ne****]

10 minutes ago, Take_A_Seat said:

However, on Feeld the same pattern arrises despite having over 20 identities on there. From my perspective and background (archaeologically and anthropologicaly) there are more identities in time and space than we can imagine, and for the most part have a western bias and gatekeeping, in many cases, of identities. I can't get mad if someone sees me as "male" based upon their own cultural background as more people will associate different, sometimes opposing, identies to me than I can have from my own perspective. However, thats where couples, particularly m dom/f sub seem disingenuous when eliminating "male" as a gender but including "couples, trans, non-binary" if their gaze is based upon sexual organs. Don't get me wrong, I am more than happy with my my relationships/dynamics and don't want to be involved with a couple where I feel my identity and sexuallity doesn't fit. However, I can't help but feel that it creates a toxic view of D/s relationships where gender and biological sex and/or sexual organs are conflated without any good reason other than male/dom insecurities.

Ooo good points about Western gaze and gatekeeping - I won't throw my country into this (they're busy, lol) but 'the West' sure does have some strong 'opinions' on how the world and its inhabitants should behave...

Fascinating that the most prevalent dynamic in this world presents itself as loudest even when the others are, have been present AND are louder than ever...

[Ta****]

18 minutes ago, NexumSange said:

Ooo good points about Western gaze and gatekeeping - I won't throw my country into this (they're busy, lol) but 'the West' sure does have some strong 'opinions' on how the world and its inhabitants should behave...

Fascinating that the most prevalent dynamic in this world presents itself as loudest even when the others are, have been present AND are louder than ever...

Definitely. Not to say that multiple gender identities haven't existed in "the West" for millenia, but it comes across that people forget that what is now might not be in 100 years, or have/have never been anywhere else on this planet for the past 5 million years of human history/evolution.