CNC? do you use contracts or not?

[si****]

I helped play out a r@pe fantasy where I walked into the house ( it was unlocked and agreed upon while the husband was out) took the lady f@rcefully to the spare bedroom and f@rcefully did what I liked to her.
This was all agreed and we had met previously and are still good friends , but I’m just now discovering people are writing contracts to cover them selves legally… was I naive and lucky not putting it in writing or is it common practice for contracts to be drawn? No plans to do
It again anytime soon just wanted some advice.

[vr****]

I guess the bigger question would be, would it hold up in court? What if the 2 of you agreed to something and the other person changed their mind about it after the contract was made. I don't think a written contract would hold up honestly. But I'm not a lawyer. Just my thought. I'm sure others here will have more valid opinions than mine

[Po****]

Yes always a contract, but thats not always 100% either. I go a step beyond, have them video themselves while they explain what will happen and have them give consent on video, and another extra step is I'll only do it if theyre okay with the whole thing being recorded, not to show others but to beable to show everything that happened just in case. That way they cant later say they said the safeword to stop but I never stopped.. it also makes them feel better because if I happened to not stop once a safeword was said they have proof to go after me... but without at least a contract its very easy for them to twist it around and say it wasnt consensual and it'd be your word vs theirs mostly. Yes you'd have texts but they could say when the time came they backed out but you did it anyways

[Am****]

I’ve done stuff like that to a co-uple I meet gears ago wife! I meet them both 10 or more times and would call them a weq kinky best friends. Never any contacts or nothing singed. We work on trust! But if I did something night takes about or approved before hand. I Latotally confine

[br****]

i think in this context you’re expecting the sub to deceitfully say it wasn’t consensual, which isn’t common. it’s also uncommon (but still happens) that a dom will say in court a sub agreed to things that weren’t previously discussed or agreed upon. consent can be revoked at any point in time, regardless of a contract or consent on video. a discussion beforehand should be about safe words and trust, the sub trusting the dom to stop if the safe word is used and the dom trusting the sub to use the safe word if they need to revoke consent. if you don’t fully trust them to do their part, don’t engage in play. i do think having the whole thing on tape is a way to prove what really happened, but i don’t now how many people would agree to that and there are still ways to do things on video that don’t allow for a clear revoke of consent (free use/sleep, gag/prevention of safe word)

[Ma****]

Honestly unless you have a good solid relationship and know them very well it's a lot of risk

[Ba****]

You don’t need contracts. Having the convo in text messages along with an agreed upon safe word is plenty

[Wi****]

50 minutes ago, vr6glx96 said:

I guess the bigger question would be, would it hold up in court? What if the 2 of you agreed to something and the other person changed their mind about it after the contract was made. I don't think a written contract would hold up honestly. But I'm not a lawyer. Just my thought. I'm sure others here will have more valid opinions than mine

Exactly what I came to say to the OP.

A contract is meaningless, so is what you believe to be consent as a man, depending on the country you live in. There’s many where consent can be freely given at the time of the act but withdrawn days/weeks/etc after the act, by the woman.

Op; you’re looking at it, as *** is only a ***ful act, with someone fighting back saying no and the aggressor pinning them down, but many *** cases aren’t like that at all.

[Wi****]

47 minutes ago, PostMaBone said:

Yes always a contract, but thats not always 100% either. I go a step beyond, have them video themselves while they explain what will happen and have them give consent on video, and another extra step is I'll only do it if theyre okay with the whole thing being recorded, not to show others but to beable to show everything that happened just in case. That way they cant later say they said the safeword to stop but I never stopped.. it also makes them feel better because if I happened to not stop once a safeword was said they have proof to go after me... but without at least a contract its very easy for them to twist it around and say it wasnt consensual and it'd be your word vs theirs mostly. Yes you'd have texts but they could say when the time came they backed out but you did it anyways

It doesn’t work that way either I’m afraid

[ey****]

7 hours ago, sixx79 said:

but I’m just now discovering people are writing contracts to cover them selves legally… was I naive and lucky not putting it in writing or is it common practice for contracts to be drawn?

It wouldn't hold up in court.  Simple reason, that you cannot waive rights to being the victim of an illegal activity in contract.

There are some advantages to contracts - one is that it can serve as a reminder to what you can and can't do - and it can add to a kind of symbolism - though sometimes when someone insists on a contract it's because they're going to use it to threaten the other person, even though it's non-binding.

The main thing with any kink, especially some stuff like cnc/r@pe play/etc is not just do they trust you, and want to do it with them - but do you also trust them. Are you comfortable with it. Are you confident this is what they want.  Can you be sure that they won't report it? That you won't be flapping as of if your evidence holds up - and that even if you get reported, and your evidence holds up - that you can be happy you did the right thing and can live with it

[Po****]

6 minutes ago, Wim121 said:

It doesn’t work that way either I’m afraid

Like i said its not 100% but it would help. Obviously there needs to be that trust built before but anything extra that can help. But nothing is 100% even outside of cnc. There's plenty of stories of people having consenting sex but later say it wasnt. Nothing is a guaranteed but any extra precautions help in the worst case scenario. But thats what i do and they all appreciate it because it also helps them feel more comfortable with it. But thats my experience, mileage may vary

[Ma****]

Look everything and what we do in this community is based on trust and communication the fact is no a contract will not hold up in court. So you have to know them you have to trust them you have to build that relationship for your safety and theirs because it's real simple all a submissive or somebody posing as a submissive has to say is I use the safe word and he didn't listen whether they used it or not whether you listened or not it becomes your word against theirs henceforth it's about a relationship of communication and Trust that's the foundation of everything in this community

[Shilo66]

What you did was stew pea'd without a contract or some other form of protection.

You got lucky that she/they didn't change their mind about what you did. Because in most countries, had she changed her mind and reported you for reeeeep, you'd be in prison now experiencing for real what she experienced as fantasy.

Edited Wednesday at 11:30 PM by Shilo66

[Wi****]

8 minutes ago, PostMaBone said:

Like i said its not 100% but it would help. Obviously there needs to be that trust built before but anything extra that can help. But nothing is 100% even outside of cnc. There's plenty of stories of people having consenting sex but later say it wasnt. Nothing is a guaranteed but any extra precautions help in the worst case scenario. But thats what i do and they all appreciate it because it also helps them feel more comfortable with it. But thats my experience, mileage may vary

Completely agree about the trust and I’d urge anyone to steer clear of people with a vindictive streak

[Wi****]

11 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

It wouldn't hold up in court.  Simple reason, that you cannot waive rights to being the victim of an illegal activity in contract.

There are some advantages to contracts - one is that it can serve as a reminder to what you can and can't do - and it can add to a kind of symbolism - though sometimes when someone insists on a contract it's because they're going to use it to threaten the other person, even though it's non-binding.

The main thing with any kink, especially some stuff like cnc/r@pe play/etc is not just do they trust you, and want to do it with them - but do you also trust them. Are you comfortable with it. Are you confident this is what they want.  Can you be sure that they won't report it? That you won't be flapping as of if your evidence holds up - and that even if you get reported, and your evidence holds up - that you can be happy you did the right thing and can live with it

Exactly!

On a slightly separate topic, I once out of curiosity in my youth, sought legal opinions on a relationship prenup and the long and short of it, is there’s many rights that can’t be waived and someone can’t legally be contracted to, even if other do sign it.

[by****]

Prolly a good idea

[An****]

Always cover yourself

[Po****]

7 minutes ago, Wim121 said:

Completely agree about the trust and I’d urge anyone to steer clear of people with a vindictive streak

Agreed, stay away from vindictive people, if you say no and they try to guilt trip you into something, any whose the slightest bit abusive/manipulative, etc. But that also goes for just any relationship. But yes bottom line is to build trust, have open communication, make sure they feel safe and know at any point they can make everything come to a complete stop

[ki****]

At least have some text messages or screenshots

[Mr****]

Aways CYA in a case like that!! That way it avoids you catching a case

[Ma****]

It’s illegal with or without a contract. She can still claim non consent because she changed her mind.

[Mr****]

Thats true. But atleast with documentation you still stand a fighting chance

[cr****]

Contracts are just a waste of paper unless you're trying to experience the full on role play experience. They don't and won't hold up in court, even if it's drawn up by a lawyer or notarized or whatever. It's basically just a sheet of paper with some words on it. Some Doms prefer to have it so they don't have to remember every small detail or so the sub knows the rules so he doesn't have to explain why she's being by punished when she disobeys. For whatever reason someone may have for drawing it up, it does add a little excitement reading it and anticipating what will happen once signed.

[ma****]

Contracts are exciting. It helps me feel safer as a sub but would definitely protect you too as the one to be accused potentially some day for no good reason

[Te****]

I think having a good relationship and understanding works best. Not many are doing this on a whim. Keeping messages would be wise. For both sides.