🔥 Let’s talk body types, attraction, and body confidence in BDSM.🔥

[FE****]

1 hour ago, jaxnorth said:

 

Do you not know how quotes work? You literally quoted me and said you multiple times. Oh and in this response you say if the hack fits question mark That's cute

To be fair, BZBEE never quoted you; their comment was a standalone message, not a reply to your post.

[He****]

🤣🤣🤣🤣 ima just go make my popcorn

[BZ****]

3 hours ago, FETMod-RG said:

To be fair, BZBEE never quoted you; their comment was a standalone message, not a reply to your post.

Thank you 🙏🏻

[ja****]

4 hours ago, FETMod-RG said:

To be fair, BZBEE never quoted you; their comment was a standalone message, not a reply to your post.

You know what Fair enough, although everything I said is true

[ja****]

5 hours ago, Witchywoman said:

In many ways, we do. Attraction can be influenced by conditioning, learned beliefs, social expectations, and the ideals we develop in our minds. However, there is an important distinction between choosing what we find attractive and having our sense of attraction shaped over time.

I believe you're confusing an immediate emotional or physical response with the psychological conditioning that helps create that response in the first place.

Attraction is not necessarily something we can switch on or off at will, but that doesn't mean our preferences are entirely biological, fixed or beyond influence.

Our perceptions of beauty are shaped throughout our lives by cultural expectations, social conditioning, personal experiences, repeated exposure and the ideals we internalise.

If attraction were entirely predetermined, why would beauty standards vary so significantly across cultures and throughout history?

Personally, I know I have been conditioned to believe that all attractive men have not-so-flattering personalities and big egos. This may be true to my experiences and thus conditioning, but I need to be wary not to tar everyone with the same brush because that would not be realistic or a fair assumption.

I do, however, know that I do not fall for the looks and charm anymore, and I prefer to dig deeper.

I 100% know that I would not currently select a partner if he had facial hair, and I am aware that it does not have anything to do with anyone alive with facial hair. It is a preference I have at this time. That is not to say that I may evolve one day and find it attractive.

There is nothing wrong with what people find attractive and what they don't, but I do believe that we need to be aware of our thinking, beliefs, and conditioning to understand ourselves just that little bit more.

To some degree you're right, absolutely, but I do believe that there's a certain level of cope from a certain contingent of the opposite sex that implies that if it wasn't for society we would all be chasing after Kathy Bates and Roseanne barr. And I just know for a fact that's not true. On the other hand and I know I'm an opening up a can of worms here, but social media and dating sites have created a false sense of options which has by extension made some people think they can get better than they really can. Men are less susceptible to that though, even though men might prefer the best looking woman possible men are still reasonable and willing to date someone closer in their looks

[TDC4goodtimes]

It's so hard especially for us women to not over think and lack self esteem and confidence in our bodies

[ja****]

11 minutes ago, TDC4goodtimes said:

It's so hard especially for us women to not over think and lack self esteem and confidence in our bodies

Lol, where? I got to be honest with you you can say that women lack self-esteem but they certainly don't let it impact the men they chase after on these websites. I very rarely ever see a woman say to the herself I'm not very attractive I better pick an equally unattractive man.

[Ma****]

Witchywoman, your point about questioning our own thinking makes sense. I can be quite specific about what catches my eye, but I still want to leave room to be surprised by a person. Otherwise I'm just interviewing applicants for a list I made in my head 😂

[br****]

For me attraction, desire and magnetism doesn’t come in the same package every time. Dynamics are different also, different people ignite different instincts, different parts of me. That comes from deeper inside.

[Ma****]

5 hours ago, brighton-and38754 said:

For me attraction, desire and magnetism doesn’t come in the same package every time. Dynamics are different also, different people ignite different instincts, different parts of me. That comes from deeper inside.

The part about different people bringing out different sides of you is interesting. I'm still discovering mine. Do you usually notice that shift in the first conversation, or does it take time together?

[Witchywoman]

Yesterday at 01:54 PM, jaxnorth said:

To some degree you're right, absolutely, but I do believe that there's a certain level of cope from a certain contingent of the opposite sex that implies that if it wasn't for society we would all be chasing after Kathy Bates and Roseanne barr. And I just know for a fact that's not true. On the other hand and I know I'm an opening up a can of worms here, but social media and dating sites have created a false sense of options which has by extension made some people think they can get better than they really can. Men are less susceptible to that though, even though men might prefer the best looking woman possible men are still reasonable and willing to date someone closer in their looks

I understand what you're saying, and to a degree, I agree. However, I think there's another aspect to attraction that is often overlooked: **how people perceive their own attractiveness and how that perception influences who they believe they have a chance with.**

I suspect many men won't even approach a woman they consider "good-looking" because they've already convinced themselves that she's out of their league. They've rejected themselves on her behalf before she's even had the opportunity to form an opinion.

But here's the irony. Describing someone as "good-looking" is subjective. Attractiveness depends on an individual's perceptions, preferences, experiences, conditioning and personal standards of beauty. What appeals to one person may not appeal to another. And around and around we go! (See my original post.)

Personally, if I'm interested in a man, I'll make that interest known. What has never ceased to amaze me is how little confidence some men have in their own attractiveness and, consequently, in the type of woman they believe they could attract.

I've had men who didn't consider themselves particularly attractive express genuine surprise when I've chosen them to dance with at a pub or club. I've even had men I've entered into relationships with tell me they never imagined someone who looked like me would be interested in them.

Conversely, I've encountered men who would generally be considered conventionally attractive become quite miffed when I haven't reciprocated their interest. It's almost as though some have become accustomed to their appearance being enough to guarantee attention.

**And therein lies the contradiction. Some men underestimate their attractiveness to others, while others overestimate the universal appeal of their own.**

Neither seems to recognise that attraction is not determined by some universally agreed-upon hierarchy of physical beauty.

I find it rather sad that people can rule themselves out of a potential connection simply because they've decided they're not attractive enough for someone else.

**Ultimately, you don't get to decide whether someone else finds you attractive. That's their decision, not yours. And equally, being considered conventionally attractive doesn't entitle anyone to another person's interest.**

Perhaps we'd all be better off abandoning the notion of people being "in" or "out" of our league and allowing others to decide for themselves who they find attractive.

[ja****]

2 hours ago, Witchywoman said:

I understand what you're saying, and to a degree, I agree. However, I think there's another aspect to attraction that is often overlooked: **how people perceive their own attractiveness and how that perception influences who they believe they have a chance with.**

I suspect many men won't even approach a woman they consider "good-looking" because they've already convinced themselves that she's out of their league. They've rejected themselves on her behalf before she's even had the opportunity to form an opinion.

But here's the irony. Describing someone as "good-looking" is subjective. Attractiveness depends on an individual's perceptions, preferences, experiences, conditioning and personal standards of beauty. What appeals to one person may not appeal to another. And around and around we go! (See my original post.)

Personally, if I'm interested in a man, I'll make that interest known. What has never ceased to amaze me is how little confidence some men have in their own attractiveness and, consequently, in the type of woman they believe they could attract.

I've had men who didn't consider themselves particularly attractive express genuine surprise when I've chosen them to dance with at a pub or club. I've even had men I've entered into relationships with tell me they never imagined someone who looked like me would be interested in them.

Conversely, I've encountered men who would generally be considered conventionally attractive become quite miffed when I haven't reciprocated their interest. It's almost as though some have become accustomed to their appearance being enough to guarantee attention.

**And therein lies the contradiction. Some men underestimate their attractiveness to others, while others overestimate the universal appeal of their own.**

Neither seems to recognise that attraction is not determined by some universally agreed-upon hierarchy of physical beauty.

I find it rather sad that people can rule themselves out of a potential connection simply because they've decided they're not attractive enough for someone else.

**Ultimately, you don't get to decide whether someone else finds you attractive. That's their decision, not yours. And equally, being considered conventionally attractive doesn't entitle anyone to another person's interest.**

Perhaps we'd all be better off abandoning the notion of people being "in" or "out" of our league and allowing others to decide for themselves who they find attractive.

I mean that's a beautiful sentiment, but the numbers don't bear that out. They do studies that show that women swipe left or whatever the equivalent is like on 85% of men's profiles. And that number doesn't change regardless of what the woman looks like.. and let's don't get me wrong I understand that women hate the idea that they're always getting hit on by men they don't find attractive I get it but I'm going to ask you how much of what women don't find attractive isn't how shall we say fueled by the imaginary options they have on websites like this? Yes attractiveness is partially subjective. But there are universalities. There's a reason why Tom Cruise is more popular than the guy who played The Beard hunter in patrol.. and again I'm trying to explain this from a guy's perspective we have enormously wide ranges because we have to. We don't have a choice. I really don't think women do can truly grasp what it's like to thoughtfully and consciously and carefully right 100 emails a week and get zero responses. Literally zero we're not talking about sending d**k pics or hey want to f**k. We're talking about genuine considering emails and when we do bring this up what's the response from the liars? Oh well maybe they don't like your personality. It's like how they going to know my personality if they never even talk to me? Give me a break.

[He****]

3 hours ago, Witchywoman said:

I understand what you're saying, and to a degree, I agree. However, I think there's another aspect to attraction that is often overlooked: **how people perceive their own attractiveness and how that perception influences who they believe they have a chance with.**

I suspect many men won't even approach a woman they consider "good-looking" because they've already convinced themselves that she's out of their league. They've rejected themselves on her behalf before she's even had the opportunity to form an opinion.

But here's the irony. Describing someone as "good-looking" is subjective. Attractiveness depends on an individual's perceptions, preferences, experiences, conditioning and personal standards of beauty. What appeals to one person may not appeal to another. And around and around we go! (See my original post.)

Personally, if I'm interested in a man, I'll make that interest known. What has never ceased to amaze me is how little confidence some men have in their own attractiveness and, consequently, in the type of woman they believe they could attract.

I've had men who didn't consider themselves particularly attractive express genuine surprise when I've chosen them to dance with at a pub or club. I've even had men I've entered into relationships with tell me they never imagined someone who looked like me would be interested in them.

Conversely, I've encountered men who would generally be considered conventionally attractive become quite miffed when I haven't reciprocated their interest. It's almost as though some have become accustomed to their appearance being enough to guarantee attention.

**And therein lies the contradiction. Some men underestimate their attractiveness to others, while others overestimate the universal appeal of their own.**

Neither seems to recognise that attraction is not determined by some universally agreed-upon hierarchy of physical beauty.

I find it rather sad that people can rule themselves out of a potential connection simply because they've decided they're not attractive enough for someone else.

**Ultimately, you don't get to decide whether someone else finds you attractive. That's their decision, not yours. And equally, being considered conventionally attractive doesn't entitle anyone to another person's interest.**

Perhaps we'd all be better off abandoning the notion of people being "in" or "out" of our league and allowing others to decide for themselves who they find attractive.

This. F**king this right here. Stop worrying about how they look or dont look, if your brain says yes, shoot your damn shot. Maybe you win, maybe you lose, but guaranteed you will be surprised when you just go for it. It dont matter if you find yourself attractive. Hell, thats not even a decision you get to make, thats up to them. Just because someone doesn't find you attractive, that doesn't mean that there aren't 20 more who will that you were too caught up in your own head to ask. It can be a rough game to play, because youre gonna have to come to terms with the fact that you're gonna be rejected, but if you can't deal with that, imo you should probably take a step back from dating and work through that so you can better benefit from the whole experience. If you get yourself out there without lingering on whether youre attractive enough or theyre attractive enough, you will see success and meet some wonderful souls in the process. Sure, there are some conceited people out there, but it doesnt represent the population as a whole. So, you can linger on that, and let it make you miserable, but do you want to?

[He****]

1 hour ago, jaxnorth said:

I mean that's a beautiful sentiment, but the numbers don't bear that out. They do studies that show that women swipe left or whatever the equivalent is like on 85% of men's profiles. And that number doesn't change regardless of what the woman looks like.. and let's don't get me wrong I understand that women hate the idea that they're always getting hit on by men they don't find attractive I get it but I'm going to ask you how much of what women don't find attractive isn't how shall we say fueled by the imaginary options they have on websites like this? Yes attractiveness is partially subjective. But there are universalities. There's a reason why Tom Cruise is more popular than the guy who played The Beard hunter in patrol.. and again I'm trying to explain this from a guy's perspective we have enormously wide ranges because we have to. We don't have a choice. I really don't think women do can truly grasp what it's like to thoughtfully and consciously and carefully right 100 emails a week and get zero responses. Literally zero we're not talking about sending d**k pics or hey want to f**k. We're talking about genuine considering emails and when we do bring this up what's the response from the liars? Oh well maybe they don't like your personality. It's like how they going to know my personality if they never even talk to me? Give me a break.

Saying you're explaining it from a man's perspective is far from accurate. You're seeing things from your perspective, and your perspective is completely valid. I can understand it, and I can even relate. As a man, however, i must firmly disagree that this is from a man's perspective. Your perspective is representative of my experience nor the entire male population. Perhaps, you would consider refraining this to "this is what I see based on my perspective" and there could be a productive discussion about how it effects you and ways to alleviate that. Generalization puts everyone on the defensive, however, I'd bet that many of these nice ladies and gentlemen would be happy do discuss why this happens and how to get around it outside of the framework of "men are this way, and women are this way". Because I can tell you from experience, that the men can be just as bad as the women. Its not about which gender does what. Its that we are all humans with unique and specific brains that no other brain can control or predict. When you know how to operate around that, your entire existence will be much more pleasurable 😈

[ja****]

2 hours ago, Herefortherocks said:

Saying you're explaining it from a man's perspective is far from accurate. You're seeing things from your perspective, and your perspective is completely valid. I can understand it, and I can even relate. As a man, however, i must firmly disagree that this is from a man's perspective. Your perspective is representative of my experience nor the entire male population. Perhaps, you would consider refraining this to "this is what I see based on my perspective" and there could be a productive discussion about how it effects you and ways to alleviate that. Generalization puts everyone on the defensive, however, I'd bet that many of these nice ladies and gentlemen would be happy do discuss why this happens and how to get around it outside of the framework of "men are this way, and women are this way". Because I can tell you from experience, that the men can be just as bad as the women. Its not about which gender does what. Its that we are all humans with unique and specific brains that no other brain can control or predict. When you know how to operate around that, your entire existence will be much more pleasurable 😈

Oh dude don't be one of those guys, I'm not going to be grateful that one in a thousand actually responds.

[He****]

One of what guys? Someone who understands that people are different and have different tastes and standards? Fitting a particular physical profile in no way limits you to another physical profile and it shouldn't. Im not going to knock someone who strives for better. If they know what their preference is and they wish to be patient and wait for the right one to come around instead of settling for good enough, who am I to tell them no? Not to mention, even looking at it from a mathematical standpoint, you should be greatful if 1 in 1000 respond. On a planet with 7 billion people, that leaves 7 million options for you. Take out 99% of that for whatever reason they may not fit i.e. age, gender, etc and you still have 700,000 options. The average person will meet 80-250 THOUSAND people in their lifetime. Seems to me like people just need to put themselves out there and live with patience and understanding my guy. With those odds, you would have to actively try NOT to find a partner.

[Lo****]

Their feelings about themselves are not my responsibility. If I’m into you, I’m into you and it’s not that deep. I ultimately left my last partner due to his severe insecurities and unrelenting neediness.

[Mr_Rochester]

I think immediate, physical attraction is a thing and can be very powerful. Some people and situations really fuel the urge to engage in whatever happens to be your preferred sexual activity at the time.

Thing is, at least in my experience, physical attraction is tempered by experience. I might look at someone with a traditionally attractive, slim, toned body and be turned on because I remember sexual encounters with people of that body type and how they made me feel. Though that can be a bad thing, too, if, for me, that body type is associated with bad sex or a relationship that went awry.

I might look at someone with a soft body, curves and a tummy and remember how amazing it felt to be inside them, or how that ex lover helped me.

I'm 52 now and so have a modest amount of physique reference material. I'm beginning to feel that any body type can be attractive in this way - dependent upon my own previous experiences

I also find getting to know a sub intimately means I grow to know their body better and better and associate their features with my feelings for them ( which are generally positive - or, at least, custodial).

[Di****]

I'm a plus size man, never had sex before and lately I've convinced myself I never will because of my body. I look at myself and just can't help but think "Who'd find this sexy?". When I see all the couples outside it makes my heart sink.

[Witchywoman]

Yesterday at 12:48 AM, jaxnorth said:

I mean that's a beautiful sentiment, but the numbers don't bear that out. They do studies that show that women swipe left or whatever the equivalent is like on 85% of men's profiles. And that number doesn't change regardless of what the woman looks like.. and let's don't get me wrong I understand that women hate the idea that they're always getting hit on by men they don't find attractive I get it but I'm going to ask you how much of what women don't find attractive isn't how shall we say fueled by the imaginary options they have on websites like this? Yes attractiveness is partially subjective. But there are universalities. There's a reason why Tom Cruise is more popular than the guy who played The Beard hunter in patrol.. and again I'm trying to explain this from a guy's perspective we have enormously wide ranges because we have to. We don't have a choice. I really don't think women do can truly grasp what it's like to thoughtfully and consciously and carefully right 100 emails a week and get zero responses. Literally zero we're not talking about sending d**k pics or hey want to f**k. We're talking about genuine considering emails and when we do bring this up what's the response from the liars? Oh well maybe they don't like your personality. It's like how they going to know my personality if they never even talk to me? Give me a break.

I think you're making an assumption here that women are somehow ignorant of, or incapable of understanding, the difficulties men experience when it comes to dating, attraction, and rejection. I can assure you that isn't necessarily the case.

I don't doubt for a moment that repeatedly reaching out to women, making a genuine effort to initiate conversation, and receiving absolutely no response would be incredibly disheartening. Particularly when that rejection occurs before you've even had an opportunity to demonstrate who you are as a person.

But isn't that precisely the point I was making?

People are being judged, or are judging themselves, on the basis of perceived attractiveness before there's even an opportunity to discover whether a genuine connection exists.

I also think we need to distinguish between dating-app behaviour and human attraction generally. They're not necessarily interchangeable.

You mention studies suggesting women reject approximately 85% of men's profiles. Even assuming that figure is accurate, what does it actually establish? That women are highly selective when swiping on dating apps? Or that women are incapable of finding a much broader range of men attractive in real-life interactions?

Those are two very different propositions.

Dating apps encourage people to make rapid judgements based on photographs, brief descriptions and limited information. They effectively reduce complex human beings to a series of profiles competing for attention. That environment is hardly representative of the circumstances in which attraction can develop naturally through conversation, humour, personality, familiarity and emotional connection.

And yes, there are characteristics that are widely regarded as attractive. I've never disputed that. But being conventionally attractive doesn't mean being universally attractive. Popularity and individual preference are not the same thing.

You also suggest that men have broader standards of attractiveness because they have no choice. But I would question whether that's a biological inevitability or partly a consequence of social conditioning, expectations, dating environments, and the different ways men and women experience rejection.

I think there's something else worth considering, too.

When a man sends 100 thoughtful messages and receives no replies, I can understand why he might conclude that women are excessively selective or that he simply isn't attractive enough. But that conclusion doesn't necessarily explain why those particular women didn't respond. It tells us how the experience has affected his perception of himself and of women.

And that matters.

Because when repeated rejection becomes the basis upon which we form generalisations about an entire sex, we risk allowing our personal experiences to dictate what we believe everyone else thinks, feels or wants.

Women are not a homogeneous group any more than men are. We don't all share identical preferences, expectations, motivations or standards of attractiveness.

Nor are women necessarily unaware of the insecurities, disappointments and pressures men experience. Some of us have witnessed those insecurities firsthand, listened to men express them, and seen how profoundly they can influence their confidence and willingness to approach someone.

That's exactly why I raised the subject in the first place.

My argument isn't that men don't experience rejection or that physical appearance doesn't influence attraction. My argument is that perceived attractiveness, actual attractiveness to another individual, and a person's belief in their own desirability are three different things.

And perhaps the greatest irony is that both men and women can become so convinced they understand what the opposite sex wants that they stop listening to what individuals are actually telling them.

I don't dismiss the male experience simply because I'm a woman. But equally, I don't think the male experience, particularly on dating apps, should be used to define what women collectively find attractive.

Understanding someone's experience doesn't require agreeing with every conclusion they've drawn from it.

[Witchywoman]

My apologies, back on track. I prefer a body that loves to be touched. I do prefer to be shorter than my sub. I like some arm muscles defined when flexed. If he is confident without being arrogant, all the better. I like it when I hear the small groans of pleasure- you could say, a responsiveness to my touch. Eyes that express hunger or smoldering desire. I am not a fan of facial hair; however, if the sub is masked, I would not be bothered by it. I just don't like the feeling of facial hair against my skin. A sense of humour when things go a little awry never hurts. Hands that are a little rough with short nails. A nice, tight ass would be cute and appreciated. A husky voice. And most of all, a desire to please.