Emotions or feelings... right or wrong?

[Ju****]

After a discussion in the lobby this morning it got my mind thinking.... The topic was :

"What is a dynamic? What is a relationship? Whats the difference?,And is one worth "more" than the other in terms of trust and bond? Would or could you play with / give or recieve aftercare from, someone you do NOT have emotions for?"

 

One or two implied it is "dangerous" to play or have a D/s dynamic with someone unless you *can* be emotionally available to them. Am I in the wrong for wanting a dynamic where I do *not* have emotions involved..? Does that make me or anyone else "dangerous"? Does the definition of "emotion" play a factor?

I feel I want a dynamic where "emotions" are seperate, but love/romance for me is for a relationship. It is very interesting how different people may vision this. I may add for me personally, caring for another human being is very different from an "emotional attachment". I would very much care for someone should I be involved with them, as care should always be automatically applied, but I do not wish to be emotionally available to everyone I may ever frolic with.

 

But I do not feel that I or anyone else is "dangerous" for keeping emotions seperate, just because some people view "emotions" as different things. At the end of the day, the communication is the stepping stone for this. Any advice?

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Finally_Jen

[ek****]

I think to enter into a d/s dynamic you do have to have a bond with someone it doesn’t have to be a romantic bond but you have to have a bond there and be open to the emotional and physical needs in aftercare the difference is you don’t have to open to romantic feelings or emotions but you do have to care and be there emotionally for them in aftercare In my opinion.

I think that the difference between a dynamic and a relationship is all dependent on how the people inside it want to term but one is most definitely not worth more than the other in my mind.

I also think that if you can’t be there both emotionally and physically for someone in aftercare then you probably shouldn’t be engaging in any dynamics or relationship activities with that person and both require some level of both to truly work properly.

Again this is my opinion and I would love to know what other people think it’s a very interesting question.

[Mo****]

I think if you want an emotional attachment with the person you are in a dynamic with....great, knock yourself out and be in the relationship/dynamic/play partners that is your ideal and suits you. If you don't want emotions involved.....Great, knock yourself out etc, etc
As long as what you are doing is consensual, both parties have the same approach, nobody is getting their wires crossed, after care is provided if needed and wanted then surely as adults we can have the interactions that make us happy?
You can show care for someone without being in love with them, you can want the best for someone without loving them, you can love someone without actually being romantically in love with them.
At the end of the day you should do what feels right for you, because that is what really matters

[CopperKnob]

I personally couldn't without the emotional attachment but that's not to say that that's right or wrong. To do so would be to judge other peoples ways
Is a pro Dom/me dangerous because there's no emotion?
It's language and the meanings you ascribe to particular words. I have a relationship with my boss, my parents, my friends etc. All are very different.
The dynamics wirhin my various friendship groups are all quite different, same as they are within the teams i've worked in.
At the end of the day only each of us can honestly answer the question 'am I dangerous' and react to that accordingly if need be.
Equally, no one should be suggesting that one type of relationship/dynamic is more or less than another.
The key is that all parties of the relationship/dynamic are consenting to it 🤷‍♀️
Each to their own I think.

[CopperKnob]

Just now, CopperKnob said:

I personally couldn't without the emotional attachment but that's not to say that that's right or wrong. To do so would be to judge other peoples ways
Is a pro Dom/me dangerous because there's no emotion?
It's language and the meanings you ascribe to particular words. I have a relationship with my boss, my parents, my friends etc. All are very different.
The dynamics wirhin my various friendship groups are all quite different, same as they are within the teams i've worked in.
At the end of the day only each of us can honestly answer the question 'am I dangerous' and react to that accordingly if need be.
Equally, no one should be suggesting that one type of relationship/dynamic is more or less than another.
The key is that all parties of the relationship/dynamic are consenting to it 🤷‍♀️
Each to their own I think.

Ooo, just to add, for some people, it might be that it's actually safer to keep emotions out of it

[Gh****]

I feel the best way to set the rules is to ask and see how the other person reacts, you can tell from thier reactions how they perceive the playtime with you. every walk of life has shaped that individual's life, so being invovled in physically with you they might want more than just physical connection. is all about judging the character and the personality what type of relationship they have gone through.

[Ju****]

19 minutes ago, ekirton said:

I think to enter into a d/s dynamic you do have to have a bond with someone it doesn’t have to be a romantic bond but you have to have a bond there and be open to the emotional and physical needs in aftercare the difference is you don’t have to open to romantic feelings or emotions but you do have to care and be there emotionally for them in aftercare In my opinion.

I think that the difference between a dynamic and a relationship is all dependent on how the people inside it want to term but one is most definitely not worth more than the other in my mind.

I also think that if you can’t be there both emotionally and physically for someone in aftercare then you probably shouldn’t be engaging in any dynamics or relationship activities with that person and both require some level of both to truly work properly.

Again this is my opinion and I would love to know what other people think it’s a very interesting question.

I have not yet had a "true" D/s dynamic. I have had and have a relationship with those elements and aspects present. But not yet a, sole agreed with rules and boundaries, dynamic. I honestly do not know if I can yet have one.

Because simply I am an emotional person.

I cannot seperate emotion from play or experiences. Not yet. I plan to though and while I have relationships where I have opened the emotional door, I hope to have a dynamic that's physcial, raw and mentally enticing... But where I do not *have* to be emotionally available and attached. 

Now as for aftercare, I care for a living, have done all my adult working life. I can provide care and support and feel for a person, without it being an emotionally draining experience. Which, due to me being as emotional as I am, would find myself very low and drained very fast, having so many emotions for so many people. 

Some times I want to be able to provide support and care to someone, play and frolic, without the deep intensity of an emotional bond. 

Would I need to care FOR and ABOUT them..? Yes.

But I see this a basic human thing. Even with aftercare. I don't think I should be told I shouldn't engage in play etc, if I won't be emotionally available. I feel this would be more damaging, and excluding for not wanting to share a specific part of myself with someone.

BUT while I work on my emotional views and such, I find it easier for me to purposely seek relationships with that expectation of sharing an emotional bond... Before I even look at stuff that I wan to try *without* the tie. 

 

I do think a lot of my pondering on this is down to MY use and intrepretation of the word "emotion". I see it very differently than a few people I have spoke to since I wrote this. All versions in my opinion, are valid. I also know things and humans can evolve and change and when I go down a dynamic route, I may learn things I don't know or feel now. I find it easier to just try for what I want, communicate that and agree with someone else on the same page should I enter a dynamic, what I do and don't wish to occur emotionally. But they must care for me as a human being.

 

I hope I make sense. 

[Ju****]

36 minutes ago, Morganna said:

I think if you want an emotional attachment with the person you are in a dynamic with....great, knock yourself out and be in the relationship/dynamic/play partners that is your ideal and suits you. If you don't want emotions involved.....Great, knock yourself out etc, etc
As long as what you are doing is consensual, both parties have the same approach, nobody is getting their wires crossed, after care is provided if needed and wanted then surely as adults we can have the interactions that make us happy?
You can show care for someone without being in love with them, you can want the best for someone without loving them, you can love someone without actually being romantically in love with them.
At the end of the day you should do what feels right for you, because that is what really matters
 

Thank you. This makes sense. The "wires crossed" bit related to me. 

I have previously spoke to people in the past, dabbling or treading the water on a possibility of connecting for just...fun with a dynamic (no romance). But sometimes people have wanted more. I have not yet been in a place to have offered them what they wanted and needed in that way. And after a bad relationship, I feel my emotions are I'm more guarded and very, very select on who and when I let them out to. 

I do agree that consent is the main thing. I would always communicate with someone, "this is what I want or hope, how about you".. So people can make informed choices. But this has mainly only been a successful with romantic endevours. 

But yes I agree at the end of the day, if it works for those involved... then why not. It was just an interesting topic in my opinion and I have been curious on the variances of other humans. 

[ek****]

9 minutes ago, Finally_Jen said:

I have not yet had a "true" D/s dynamic. I have had and have a relationship with those elements and aspects present. But not yet a, sole agreed with rules and boundaries, dynamic. I honestly do not know if I can yet have one.

Because simply I am an emotional person.

I cannot seperate emotion from play or experiences. Not yet. I plan to though and while I have relationships where I have opened the emotional door, I hope to have a dynamic that's physcial, raw and mentally enticing... But where I do not *have* to be emotionally available and attached. 

Now as for aftercare, I care for a living, have done all my adult working life. I can provide care and support and feel for a person, without it being an emotionally draining experience. Which, due to me being as emotional as I am, would find myself very low and drained very fast, having so many emotions for so many people. 

Some times I want to be able to provide support and care to someone, play and frolic, without the deep intensity of an emotional bond. 

Would I need to care FOR and ABOUT them..? Yes.

But I see this a basic human thing. Even with aftercare. I don't think I should be told I shouldn't engage in play etc, if I won't be emotionally available. I feel this would be more damaging, and excluding for not wanting to share a specific part of myself with someone.

BUT while I work on my emotional views and such, I find it easier for me to purposely seek relationships with that expectation of sharing an emotional bond... Before I even look at stuff that I wan to try *without* the tie. 

 

I do think a lot of my pondering on this is down to MY use and intrepretation of the word "emotion". I see it very differently than a few people I have spoke to since I wrote this. All versions in my opinion, are valid. I also know things and humans can evolve and change and when I go down a dynamic route, I may learn things I don't know or feel now. I find it easier to just try for what I want, communicate that and agree with someone else on the same page should I enter a dynamic, what I do and don't wish to occur emotionally. But they must care for me as a human being.

 

I hope I make sense. 

So I think I may have used the wrong words maybe when I said you shouldn’t engage if you can’t be there for them emotionally in aftercare I think I am similar to you and I am very emotional so for me I can’t ever see doing aftercare without being there emotionally for aftercare personally but I think you and your partner that your wanting to frolic with or enter a dynamic with would have to have a good honest conversation about exactly what aftercare they personally need after a session it’s a very personal matter between the two of you is maybe a better way to put it and I’m sorry if my poor wording caused any offence I hope that makes better sense

[Ju****]

35 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

I personally couldn't without the emotional attachment but that's not to say that that's right or wrong. To do so would be to judge other peoples ways
Is a pro Dom/me dangerous because there's no emotion?
It's language and the meanings you ascribe to particular words. I have a relationship with my boss, my parents, my friends etc. All are very different.
The dynamics wirhin my various friendship groups are all quite different, same as they are within the teams i've worked in.
At the end of the day only each of us can honestly answer the question 'am I dangerous' and react to that accordingly if need be.
Equally, no one should be suggesting that one type of relationship/dynamic is more or less than another.
The key is that all parties of the relationship/dynamic are consenting to it 🤷‍♀️
Each to their own I think.

I am much like you then. At present I cannot progress without emotions. I need them to sort of....just do anything at the minute. But, I found this made me very much stubborn and incredibly hard to open myself up to experiences.

I also know I won't have enough in me emotionally to split amongst everyone I may ever play with or whatever. Some people don't need to have my emotions just given to them to be intimate with me. I want to enjoy myself and others, and the experiences just as that. With people I can trust and care about, without the attachment. 

I do feel I would be capable to care about another human and show the the support and care they need without opening too deep. I imagine this can be similar for those who do it as a profession? I am not sure. But to have compassion and basic understanding of other humans, I think it's manageable.

If I ever felt I was going to hurt someone or not specifically communicate my boundaries with emotions, then I wouldn't dare trod there, for their sake and my own. Once I feel I have the confidence to explore for fun and experience, then I will look into it. 

I can't think of anything worse than having a No Emotions Agreement with someone as a physical only basis, to become overly fond of and ruin it. So I won't put myself at risk with that. I plan on emotional bonds and relationships for romance, as a good start of my journey anyway, and work up. 

 

45 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

Ooo, just to add, for some people, it might be that it's actually safer to keep emotions out of it

Nail. Head. <3

[Ju****]

26 minutes ago, ghechieDom said:

I feel the best way to set the rules is to ask and see how the other person reacts, you can tell from thier reactions how they perceive the playtime with you. every walk of life has shaped that individual's life, so being invovled in physically with you they might want more than just physical connection. is all about judging the character and the personality what type of relationship they have gone through.

Yes I agree on askin. Very much so. Reading them via their reaction, to the question... yes. After a play scene... No. I feel that would be too late. 

And the bit you say they might want more from me, unless I specifically tell someone at the start, I hope for emotional play and romance and intimacy, then I will want nothing more than what the mutual agreement has confirmed previous. I am a bit of a stickler for routine and rules I guess. I wouldn't know what to do or how to manage should one of us begin to think, behave and act out of emotions when it was sticking to boundaries well before. I guess communication comes into that, but if I get into a specific situation or dynamic with someone, it is simply because that's *all* I will ever want it to be, unless I asked about it otherwise (in advance).

Just a *** of wrong doing and over stepping perhaps and I want to make sure that I am doing things correct should I get into this situation. 

[Ju****]

16 minutes ago, ekirton said:

So I think I may have used the wrong words maybe when I said you shouldn’t engage if you can’t be there for them emotionally in aftercare I think I am similar to you and I am very emotional so for me I can’t ever see doing aftercare without being there emotionally for aftercare personally but I think you and your partner that your wanting to frolic with or enter a dynamic with would have to have a good honest conversation about exactly what aftercare they personally need after a session it’s a very personal matter between the two of you is maybe a better way to put it and I’m sorry if my poor wording caused any offence I hope that makes better sense

No offence caused at all. I like a discussion. I will openly say even if it was worded wrong, it still opens another door of thinking and interpretation. So it makes me think of other scenarios I may not have otherwise. So no worries there. 

 

But yes, I won't get into something with someone without discussing "What is your after care preference", and them detailing something I *know* I won't be able to offer them, then I would call it quits there and then should a conversation not allow compromise. 

Like for me, Sex itself is an emotional and intmiate thing. I cannot as it stands, have Sex with someone I don't have an emotional attachment to. If I did, I wouldn't feel right. This comes down to me and my own preferences and ways. I can do other things that are less....intimate, and within a boundary, but penetration is something I would have for a relationship. I understand this is different for everyone. Guess the important bit is transparent communication and honesty, and ofcourse consent. 

[Deleted Member]

I was part of this discussion on the lobby.  I'm pleased you've raised this as a forum post @Finally_Jen to build on the discussion.   I have a number of points to make on it,  all of which are based on my own experiences of exploring various BDSM dynamics.

Most who've been involved in a D/s dynamic will report feelings of heightened emotions due to the depth of trust and connection with their D/s. Most in these dynamics find the opportunity to explore their deepest and darkest desire,  many of which are taboo in mainstream society/ culture.

 This exploration of the self and the trust in their chosen confidante creates something quite unlike any romantic/ vanilla/ kinky vanilla relationship. 

For clarity,  I am referring to a Dominant/ submissive dynamic whereby 2 people seek to secure a relationship which is rooted in power exchange and the romantic notion of "being in love" is not part of it.

That is not to say the two cannot co- exist.  In my opinion when the freedom and confidence to bring both together is present then you have a rare and beautiful thing. Not that it's more than or less then but is the holy grail of those who seek it in its full glory. But that is another tangent which I won't address here.

1) emotional connection and investment is not as binary as "love and romance or not". It is informed by patterns of human behaviour that are established early on in our lives with regard to attachment styles and in turn expectation,  needs and wants.  These are subsequently informed by our experiences and how we make sense of the world around us and contribute to our internal moral compass.  I subscribe to the school of thought that these are crucial to understand to ensure they can be communicated and shared with any other with whom we're engaged with.

2) dynamics in BDSM are underpinned by trust which is created by communication,  knowledge of oneself, knowledge of your kink and willingness to understand the other persons interests/ kink.  This takes time and investment of the self.

3) for any person to enter into a power exchange relationship on either side of the "/" one might hope that this is done with clear judgement and insight of what's entailed.  The absence of this is full hardy and potentially dangerous.

4) to suggest that a dynamic could be achieved successfully and safely without points 1, 2 and 3 is naive and certainly does merit further exploration and understanding.

I wholly support learning in all these areas to progress our insights individually and as a community.  I look forward to further contribution and input...

🔥🧙🔥

[MissTakenDeep]

I think it would be extremely unfair and judgmental to label someone ‘dangerous’ simply because they like to keep ‘dynamics’ and ‘relationships’ separate…as long as they fully communicating that to their partner and are not misleading anybody.

Emotions can complicate sex for a lot of people, myself included, and for a long time I used sex as a coping mechanism and much preferred one off occasions or fwb situations to committed sexual/romantic relationships to avoid the emotional conflict & attachment it created…but eventually I found the lack of emotion in a sexual context was only beneficial to me on my terms…it sometimes made the sex less satisfying and with my specific kinks trust is very important, so there was a lot missing from my sex life. On the occasions I did catch feelings for the wrong people, the sex was amazing but the relationships very toxic and quite damaging emotionally… All kinky fun but with partners who would consider themselves vanilla… I joined this site in the hope of finding someone who’s as kinky as me, but also understands the psychological dynamics, why aftercare is important, why there are boundaries and limits and safe words. Why consent and communication is so important. For me personally, I want the vanilla side too, so I’m definitely looking for somebody who is open to developing a romantic relationship, but I don’t think there’s anything at all wrong with just wanting the sexual fun or a dynamic without emotions. It’s all about making your intentions clear.

[Ae****]

I think a lot of people are very dramatic with their bdsm passion. Purists. For them bdsm is very intense and all encompassing - but for some, it's possible for it to just be fun. This may be quite jarring for the intense people to think about but that's ok. If it's fun for you, enjoy it. Be aware of boundaries and feelings and, if everything's ok, that's all that matters. The *** and worries that others have is theirs alone to grapple with, not yours.

[Ar****]

I think you already know that there is no inherent danger in being emotionally unavailable to a play partner - as you say, communication is what is important.

 

When I read your post my mind started to picture differing relationships as sort of star shapes similar to those seen in neurodiversity diagnosis (amongst other situations), where each point is the tip a scale representing the strength of a particular aspect. And on this relationship star we might have kinkiness, we might have emotional intensity, we might have danger, and so forth. I don't see why any aspect should by default correlate to another; how dangerous a person is really needs to be measured independently of their other aspects, and I think that probably (in this undoubtedly clumsy analogy which I know might not work) most of us are just hoping to find the people whose shapes work best with ours.

3 hours ago, CopperKnob said:

Ooo, just to add, for some people, it might be that it's actually safer to keep emotions out of it

Bingo.

[Deleted Member]

For myself, D/s dynamics are the only kink thing I’ve known. When I was a new submissive, just discovering it all, I mistook the power exchange for love. But I think that’s the problem for the vanilla’s that don’t know: they see a relationship and think “love”. So it appears twisted and ugly and what they see as abusive.

But we all know a healthy dynamic is very much the opposite. Once I learned to let go of the vanilla version of love, I realized that my submissive version, where I have chosen to give up that control and completely submit, is an entirely different thing. Vanilla love/emotions, whatever word one wants to use, can be very fickle. For me, in D/s dynamic, it’s the most rock solid, trust worthy connection I’ve ever felt. And it hurts that much more when it breaks.

I am personally not a fan of one-offs, but that’s just me. I do feel that there is room for safe non-emotional play. Communication is the most important part for that.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Deleted Member

[Ju****]

9 hours ago, Firewitch said:

I was part of this discussion on the lobby.  I'm pleased you've raised this as a forum post @Finally_Jen to build on the discussion.   I have a number of points to make on it,  all of which are based on my own experiences of exploring various BDSM dynamics.

Most who've been involved in a D/s dynamic will report feelings of heightened emotions due to the depth of trust and connection with their D/s. Most in these dynamics find the opportunity to explore their deepest and darkest desire,  many of which are taboo in mainstream society/ culture.

 This exploration of the self and the trust in their chosen confidante creates something quite unlike any romantic/ vanilla/ kinky vanilla relationship. 

For clarity,  I am referring to a Dominant/ submissive dynamic whereby 2 people seek to secure a relationship which is rooted in power exchange and the romantic notion of "being in love" is not part of it.

That is not to say the two cannot co- exist.  In my opinion when the freedom and confidence to bring both together is present then you have a rare and beautiful thing. Not that it's more than or less then but is the holy grail of those who seek it in its full glory. But that is another tangent which I won't address here.

1) emotional connection and investment is not as binary as "love and romance or not". It is informed by patterns of human behaviour that are established early on in our lives with regard to attachment styles and in turn expectation,  needs and wants.  These are subsequently informed by our experiences and how we make sense of the world around us and contribute to our internal moral compass.  I subscribe to the school of thought that these are crucial to understand to ensure they can be communicated and shared with any other with whom we're engaged with.

2) dynamics in BDSM are underpinned by trust which is created by communication,  knowledge of oneself, knowledge of your kink and willingness to understand the other persons interests/ kink.  This takes time and investment of the self.

3) for any person to enter into a power exchange relationship on either side of the "/" one might hope that this is done with clear judgement and insight of what's entailed.  The absence of this is full hardy and potentially dangerous.

4) to suggest that a dynamic could be achieved successfully and safely without points 1, 2 and 3 is naive and certainly does merit further exploration and understanding.

I wholly support learning in all these areas to progress our insights individually and as a community.  I look forward to further contribution and input...

🔥🧙🔥

Thank you for your input. 

I am very aware that you were there.  And you yourself know who said the "dangerous" comment. Given the person's experience and length of time in BDSM it provoked that thought in me. But as more people came in and the conversation diluted a bit, I didn't want to tail back.. You know how it is in there.

 

My main query was "Is it dangerous for play/aftercare to occur when NO emotions involved?". I don't feel it is. 

---

The difference in the "Dynamic vs Relationship" labels probably have a lot to answer for. But none of us except those involved in said dynamics or relationships, know how they bond and mix kink in. Each to their own.

 

My two cents was that emotions are the deepest darkest vulnerabilities. Who I let very few people close to. I have shared feelings and care for people, but that's not an "emotional" bond for me. Yes I can care for someone or look for aftercare / offer it, if i was not emotionally attached. If I didn't care about them as a person or human being, then no...I'd not have any involvement at all. This being said, I know my view and meaning on the word "emotion" can vary from others. 

 

I would have a play partner who I just want it to be exactly that. Play.

Trust and a level of care, obviously should *always* be paired in that, but I won't want to be emotionally available to someone I play with.

I do notice a different kind of connection, (from what I have read and heard from long term bdsm friends), in dynamics. The power exhange certainly... But for a lot of people, they can do this within their dynamic without it being complicated by emotions.

An example is penetration. Some see sex as a purely intimate / involving emotions "thing" they wouldn't do within a D/s.

D/s is more than that in it's own way, as relationships mix more in the way of emotion. They have their balances.  (Again this is my personal opinion).

 

You make sense though here. The topic itself I felt was VERY interesting and provoking. Not just for safety, (though we all definately should have safety in mind foremost), but for the variation of the other people who commented.

I found it fascinating. 

And I am sure some lucky people can indeed mix their D/s dynamic with a romantic relationship. And I think that is amazing. It is rare, but it can happen. Maybe that'll be the case for me one day. I won't know until I leap out of my emotional box and into the sole physical and mental play side where I can seperate the emotional bond.

My safety and someone else's (my opinion) is to *not* play within a dynamic or try this until I am able to maintain that seperate balance. I will be focussing on my relationships with emotional ties until I feel free to explore without giving someone more than I can offer them. This is just my view ofcourse. 

[Ju****]

9 hours ago, MissTakenDeep said:

I think it would be extremely unfair and judgmental to label someone ‘dangerous’ simply because they like to keep ‘dynamics’ and ‘relationships’ separate…as long as they fully communicating that to their partner and are not misleading anybody.

Emotions can complicate sex for a lot of people, myself included, and for a long time I used sex as a coping mechanism and much preferred one off occasions or fwb situations to committed sexual/romantic relationships to avoid the emotional conflict & attachment it created…but eventually I found the lack of emotion in a sexual context was only beneficial to me on my terms…it sometimes made the sex less satisfying and with my specific kinks trust is very important, so there was a lot missing from my sex life. On the occasions I did catch feelings for the wrong people, the sex was amazing but the relationships very toxic and quite damaging emotionally… All kinky fun but with partners who would consider themselves vanilla… I joined this site in the hope of finding someone who’s as kinky as me, but also understands the psychological dynamics, why aftercare is important, why there are boundaries and limits and safe words. Why consent and communication is so important. For me personally, I want the vanilla side too, so I’m definitely looking for somebody who is open to developing a romantic relationship, but I don’t think there’s anything at all wrong with just wanting the sexual fun or a dynamic without emotions. It’s all about making your intentions clear.

Bless your heart. You seem to have had a story to tell. I hope you can find yourself more at ease now? 

I have done the whole "let's just have physical stuff" in my past. I cared about the human being yes, but I didn't want to have an emotional bond with them. It was more a mutual agreement and sharing time with them. With a level of trust and care and respect. But easy for me to seperate them from deeper involvement with me as a person. This worked for me. 

My last relationship I had nothing but emotions left right and centre. I switched off eventually as that was NOT healthy for me due to bad experiences within that and when i rebooted my head I have found I am very select on who gets to that *** level with me. *We all have different *** levels / places, for me this is mine*. 

 

I was the same, in my thinking as you, emotions complicate things. Some poeple can have and enjoy things a bit...looser and without the craving of intimacy on an overly sexual or emotional level. For myself, I do indeed associate the two. Where I stand IF I tried to have a dynamic for play with agreed rules and boundaries and felt myself slipping into a more than desired state of emotion, I would bet most would push me out and aside. This would not at all be good for me. So I simply don't try for that yet. Minimising my risk for allowances of harm. 

That all being said, I do plan one day to learn myself and mend myself to a stage where I can have connections with someone that are on an agreed level, with zero expectation of romance and emotions. Where I can have that fun and experience, and mutually enjoy it as it is, with the other person. Save my emotions and intimacy of that level for someone I am romantcially involved with, as (for me) I feel a relationship is more a wing it free for all, if emotions happen they happen. I'd be constantly asking myself what every feeling I have is or was, if in a dynamic and wondering if I was toeing a line. I'd drive myself mad haha.

But yes consent and limits are definately more prominant used so to speak, within a dynamic, it's more testing?! Where these elements are required. Communication should be universal if I am honest.

As for vanilla, I wasn't even speaking about vanilla stuff. is a realtionship Vanilla and a Dynamic kinky?! I haven't even went down that route of thinking haha. But I do agree a healthy balance should be applied. And definately not falling for the right people or allowing a toxic relationship to creep up. I think this is why I am so slow on my ways and prgoress. I want to make sure I do not get emotionally invested and end up with the wrong kind, and then feeling worse. So I sort of take my time assessing someone then if it gets to a length, emotions occur naturally for me. That way I know I have made a positive choice. I do so much wish I can just switch off though to enjoy others without that attachment and explore... for now, it isn't mean, but if and when I do and can, I believe I have the capability to do so safely. The other human being matters just as much as I.

[Ju****]

8 hours ago, Aeonova said:

I think a lot of people are very dramatic with their bdsm passion. Purists. For them bdsm is very intense and all encompassing - but for some, it's possible for it to just be fun. This may be quite jarring for the intense people to think about but that's ok. If it's fun for you, enjoy it. Be aware of boundaries and feelings and, if everything's ok, that's all that matters. The *** and worries that others have is theirs alone to grapple with, not yours.

Yes I guess that is true to a degree, more so the difference on how some view it. To some it is more intense and powerful. For me, that is how i see relationships as I know I won't be handing over my emotional being to someone I intend to just play and experience with. There is a slight veil there for me perhaps. 

I do want to reach that stage to have fun with it. To have the play and learning and it be agreed to be what it is. 

This said, I do have a loving romantic/emotional bond with my partner within a relationship. I can and do have the means and time soon to explore a D/s type dynamic within that, but I do not yet know to what extent. I do know I have enough of my love to go to one or two other people, (I need to keep some for me, and my *** ofc), but I do wish to have that fun and learning without it going deeper. As I stated above, I believe In can have this practised safely.

[Ju****]

8 hours ago, Aranhis said:

I think you already know that there is no inherent danger in being emotionally unavailable to a play partner - as you say, communication is what is important.

 

When I read your post my mind started to picture differing relationships as sort of star shapes similar to those seen in neurodiversity diagnosis (amongst other situations), where each point is the tip a scale representing the strength of a particular aspect. And on this relationship star we might have kinkiness, we might have emotional intensity, we might have danger, and so forth. I don't see why any aspect should by default correlate to another; how dangerous a person is really needs to be measured independently of their other aspects, and I think that probably (in this undoubtedly clumsy analogy which I know might not work) most of us are just hoping to find the people whose shapes work best with ours.

Bingo.

See this is the thing for me! It has opened up a big host of other ideas and theories and thinking. It really plucked at different parts of me. I am enjoying discussing it. I know my experience, explanation and availability is going to be different to the next persons. 

I do agree both dynamics and relationships have their own things along with it. Neither is worth more or less than the other, and some lucky people can share both within the same. It is really beautiful. For me I have that line, for now at least. Shapes analogy was great thank you as always for your input. 

I am just praying I am coming across right this time around as I have noticed a view pattern which usually comes with my more mixed up posts. lol 

I just want to learn and open though processes I didn't know I had. Same with life really haha.

[Ju****]

6 hours ago, starryeyed24 said:

For myself, D/s dynamics are the only kink thing I’ve known. When I was a new submissive, just discovering it all, I mistook the power exchange for love. But I think that’s the problem for the vanilla’s that don’t know: they see a relationship and think “love”. So it appears twisted and ugly and what they see as abusive.

But we all know a healthy dynamic is very much the opposite. Once I learned to let go of the vanilla version of love, I realized that my submissive version, where I have chosen to give up that control and completely submit, is an entirely different thing. Vanilla love/emotions, whatever word one wants to use, can be very fickle. For me, in D/s dynamic, it’s the most rock solid, trust worthy connection I’ve ever felt. And it hurts that much more when it breaks.

I am personally not a fan of one-offs, but that’s just me. I do feel that there is room for safe non-emotional play. Communication is the most important part for that.

Sorry I am a bit lost on the Vanilla bit. I am not talking about vanilla anything. Unless the word Relationship is being seen as vanilla? (I touched on this above).

I am talking about sole dynamics without emotional attachment and relationships with that emotional attachment, both having kink mixed in. One (for me) has more of an ease and flow on what I can and will allow, whereas the other I wouldn't dare let someone tread unless agreed.

Dynamics and relationships (in kink or otherwise), *can* allow someone to develop emotions to another. And as you have said, some can mistake a part in that (power exchange) for "love". I get this entirely.

But that happens in every single relationship or dynamic all over the world, kink or not. People can often mistake friendship for something more, become attached then get hurt when not reciprocated. But, jumping to conclusions and not communicating is how this can crop up.

Which is why, should I be interested in just "play" within a dynamic with someone, I'll be outlining emotions / attachment as a limit for me. It can be discussed sure should it arise, but it can throw a spanner in. The only way for me this can change is if it naturally gravitated for *both*, into a relationship with the kink mixed in. But that (for me) is not something that I could ever imagine happening easily. I am like fort knox with letting people in emotionally. 

This mentioned, I am also not a fan of one-offs. I am not at all talking about one-offs. If I were to have play with someone, I would prefer it to be recurring. But still within the agreed limits. I cannot do multiple experiences without a connection of some sort. I am not just about the physicals, thought that may also change for me one day. So I entirely get you there.  

 

Now this bit captured me. 

"But we all know a healthy dynamic is very much the opposite. Once I learned to let go of the vanilla version of love, I realized that my submissive version, where I have chosen to give up that control and completely submit, is an entirely different thing. Vanilla love/emotions, whatever word one wants to use, can be very fickle. For me, in D/s dynamic, it’s the most rock solid, trust worthy connection I’ve ever felt. And it hurts that much more when it breaks."

 

Healthy. That's a very powerful word for any dynamic and relationship. It is definately vital. Vanilla version of love I am sad to read that someone has "let go" of it, (this may be my balance for both, but each to their own) but from what you have said here is that for you, you can and do manage well having a dynamic with "emotions" involved. That is great! I find you have phrased it well to get your point across, so thank you. I do hope that one day I can maybe find that same emotion towards it, but my emotions as I stand, are saved for my romantic (not necessarily vanilla) relationship/s. For beginning perhaps I will do the more physical and mental element before the emotional one, and see how that goes. I am not closed to it, but I do not think that my endevour to try play without the emotions, makes it dangerous for me or anyone else, as long as the person has a level of respct and care, I think it is manageable. 

Every bond that breaks is horrible. I have had some which hurt like hell, some not so much. Cutting people out, same thing, some more than others. It all depends on how much of you invested in a bond I would imagine? 

But I really value what you've said here. I don't mean anything negative towards you or your comment incase I have read that way, I literally type as I speak but tone is impossible to put across. You've made sense, thank you 

[MissTakenDeep]

45 minutes ago, Finally_Jen said:

Bless your heart. You seem to have had a story to tell. I hope you can find yourself more at ease now? 

I have done the whole "let's just have physical stuff" in my past. I cared about the human being yes, but I didn't want to have an emotional bond with them. It was more a mutual agreement and sharing time with them. With a level of trust and care and respect. But easy for me to seperate them from deeper involvement with me as a person. This worked for me. 

My last relationship I had nothing but emotions left right and centre. I switched off eventually as that was NOT healthy for me due to bad experiences within that and when i rebooted my head I have found I am very select on who gets to that *** level with me. *We all have different *** levels / places, for me this is mine*. 

 

I was the same, in my thinking as you, emotions complicate things. Some poeple can have and enjoy things a bit...looser and without the craving of intimacy on an overly sexual or emotional level. For myself, I do indeed associate the two. Where I stand IF I tried to have a dynamic for play with agreed rules and boundaries and felt myself slipping into a more than desired state of emotion, I would bet most would push me out and aside. This would not at all be good for me. So I simply don't try for that yet. Minimising my risk for allowances of harm. 

That all being said, I do plan one day to learn myself and mend myself to a stage where I can have connections with someone that are on an agreed level, with zero expectation of romance and emotions. Where I can have that fun and experience, and mutually enjoy it as it is, with the other person. Save my emotions and intimacy of that level for someone I am romantcially involved with, as (for me) I feel a relationship is more a wing it free for all, if emotions happen they happen. I'd be constantly asking myself what every feeling I have is or was, if in a dynamic and wondering if I was toeing a line. I'd drive myself mad haha.

But yes consent and limits are definately more prominant used so to speak, within a dynamic, it's more testing?! Where these elements are required. Communication should be universal if I am honest.

As for vanilla, I wasn't even speaking about vanilla stuff. is a realtionship Vanilla and a Dynamic kinky?! I haven't even went down that route of thinking haha. But I do agree a healthy balance should be applied. And definately not falling for the right people or allowing a toxic relationship to creep up. I think this is why I am so slow on my ways and prgoress. I want to make sure I do not get emotionally invested and end up with the wrong kind, and then feeling worse. So I sort of take my time assessing someone then if it gets to a length, emotions occur naturally for me. That way I know I have made a positive choice. I do so much wish I can just switch off though to enjoy others without that attachment and explore... for now, it isn't mean, but if and when I do and can, I believe I have the capability to do so safely. The other human being matters just as much as I.

I don’t think you sound ‘mean’ at all Jen, I think you sound like a very intelligent woman who is very aware of herself, her needs, desires and limits..There is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. I worry about the same thing, feelings developing in a dynamic that are only one sided, that hurts and the *** of being disregarded and pushed aside for someone who needs ‘less’ is very real, so I can completely understand why you’d want to avoid that currently. When I say vanilla & kink.. I mean my past relationships, there hasn’t been a dynamic because the men I’ve been with are not part of the kink community…the problem there has been that I’ve tried to mix bdsm sex and dynamics with feelings and partners who don’t understand the bdsm side/rules.. so it’s ended up toxic and definitely not healthy for me. You’d expect on here, or similar sites, that it would be easier to find a partner acclimated to both…but again, like yourself, I’m finding most people want play partners with little emotional connection. Aftercare and basic respect is not enough for me to submit, might be enough for occasional play, but for me to fully give myself, I need to feel fully wanted. Taking your time, assessing the situation, the person you’re considering play with, knowing where you’re at, what you can offer and communicating what you need are all things that will keep you safe mentally & physically…it’s something we should all do 💙

[Deleted Member]

Good points one and all and food for thought for everyone just remember what works for ones dynamic may not work for another the main thing is at the start the R.O.E's are explained and agreed by all parties I could wax lyicly on but that is the core of my explanation we are all unique and there is not a set answer for every one out

[Deleted Member]

I didn’t take offense to anything you said, Jen. One of the most beautiful things I find about BDSM is how encompassing it is. It really is what you make of it.