Ix nay to switches

[Deleted Member]

Chatting to a potential, I've just had a bit of an epiphany as to why I've always instinctively steered away from switches. This may seem totaly BS to a lot of people, but it has been nice to finally understand my mental process.

I can't trust switches, they don't feel safe to play with. I could never understand why and it always seemed ridiculous to me, but it was how I felt. I realised tonight that it's because they allow someone else to Dominate them (Yes, I know. Duh, they're switches). But what that means is that that person influences them and so, if they Dominate me, I am in part being controlled by their Dominant. And I don't like that. It doesn't feel safe to me. Because I don't have to just read the person I am submitting to, but also understand someone else down the chain who I may not have access to (and they may not currently, either) but even if I do, it can never be to the extent that I can access the person who wants to Dominate me. They are a mystery. An uncertainty. And I just can't let my guard down under those conditions.

I know, I've got issues lolol And there are likely terrible preconceived judgments in here that don't work at all. But it is nice to at least understand my instinctive reacton. Whether I want to work on that, I haven't decided just yet.

[iamdog]

I am now so confused

[Deleted Member]

You are a trip....damn I bet your fun....

[La****]

Congratulations on achieving this next step in better understanding yourself

[Deleted Member]

Great post. At least your being you. That’s all that matters. Toooooo many rackets on here. Stay safe hunni xxx

[Cheekysub247]

I can relate to the switch thing in part, albeit different. Its not about trust or feeling they have others influencing them (as i would only meet single people or a complete couple).
For me its more understanding where their mind is at, ive been with switches and the connection just hasnt been right.
If you are thinking of dating a switch then maybe only single ones? That way you know theres only you and them involved in the situation 😊

[TiberiusSicae]

There's a lot Lady Car that I can also relate to - it never seemed easy to put into words and I have always thought it to just be my own (somewhat "different") way of thinking.  I am a non-judgemental person and feeling like this made me uneasy.  I have a good friend who is a switch and he's a fantastic person; he's tried to explain it to me but I have just ended up saying "I just don't fully get it" and we've left it at that.  Now I think I'll be able to better explain my side because of your post.  Thanks!

Edited November 16, 2022 by TiberiusSicae

[ey****]

I think there's a lot of reasons people don't feel happy with switches and that is totally valid

There's some switches who, as a Dominant, just copy what they do/like/etc as a sub and assume it will be the same for others and that doesn't really understand the individuals mind set

[ma****]

I can understand you. Switches would not be compatible with me either.

[Deleted Member]

I feel it comes down to stability and feeling grounded with someone. It like an anchor .

[Jo****]

I get your reasoning and it's valid, but a person should be upfront if they're seeing other partners- if they're also seeing a dominant then that's something you would need to talk about with them. Someone being a mystery or an unknown is a communication issue- if they're not willing to clear things up then if that's a dealbreaker for you it's a dealbreaker. If you're worried that they're using their dominants influence to dominate you then you need to make it clear that they need to dominate you in a different way that's not influenced by their partner. However, I think that is also unfair on the switch because everyone is influenced by someone else in one way or another; "no man is an island as they say", and sexual experience is no different. Unless they are seeing their dominant at the same time as you (which again, that's something you'd have talk about with them and tell them you're uncomfortable with if that's a dealbreaker), everyone is going to be influenced by their past relationships, sexual or not; it's like being angry at your partner for having a female friend who they ask for relationship advice. You're not in a relationship with their dominant, they shouldn't be in a relationship with their dominant- therefore their dominant has no influence on you. I don't mean to write all this to invalidate your feelings on the matter, because they're right and clearly it's an important issue for you, but just wanted to show a different perspective.

[se****]

I think you are being little harsh on Switches, but see your point. I wouldn't trust them either. Being a Switch, I had some Switches who can't make up their mind, or not clear. It not just Switches, but in general alot of people are not clear, or don't want to be. It's really a headache, and waste of time. Had a guy say "You should not be a Submissive, but a Dominate, and my reply was "No, I am a Submissive, but CLEAR!"

[Deleted Member]

Reading this back this morning, I don't think I quite got out what I was trying to say 🤦‍♀️ There's also something hierarchical about it - if I am under them, and they are (have been) under someone... then that pushes me down, beneath someone I didn't choose. Again, I *know* that these are independent relationships and that each dynamic is different, but these are my instinctive reactions.

[Deleted Member]

As I said. Refreshing that your being you.

[se****]

Also, there are Switches that are naturally dominate without the influences of Dominates, but it takes time to find out.

[se****]

Lady_Char, I was thinking about this the whole day. I want to thank you for your interesting view. Most my opinion hasn't changed, But it is very unique, and made think " how I think about this". If any dominate comes in my life, are their ways of dominate from them, or someone else?. If it is someone else, how would I feel about this? Would I want this? This was very enlightening for me.

[Deleted Member]

33 minutes ago, kiseu said:

Lady_Char, I was thinking about this the whole day. I want to thank you for your interesting view. Most my opinion hasn't changed, But it is very unique, and made think " how I think about this". If any dominate comes in my life, are their ways of dominate from them, or someone else?. If it is someone else, how would I feel about this? Would I want this? This was very enlightening for me.

It's bothered me for a while bc I felt like I was being silly but I couldn't get away from my reaction.

[se****]

10 hours ago, Lady_Char said:

It's bothered me for a while bc I felt like I was being silly but I couldn't get away from my reaction.

Agreeing or not, and some would think being super picky... this is about you. If you had a deep thinking about this, and it bothers you, then "No". Everybody has something that bothers them, and don't want it. This includes me. Bottom line is I know your feeling... 

Edited November 17, 2022 by kiseu

[littlemiss37]

I was wondering what that was to . I'm new here xx

[PanamaJoe]

First of all - I would say that if you are uncomfortable with switches - then by all means you should avoid getting into relationships with them.   We all have our biases, attractions, and no go zones and if someone doesn't mesh - then they just won't mesh.   Trying to push it further is like pushing on a rope.

That said however, I would disagree with the viewpoint that somehow under a switch you would be more dominated than someone who is purely dominant.   The fact is that no one is a pure dominant.   We have all as children been dominated by our parents - during the most formative years of our lives.   And then our teachers.   I mean heck - go ahead... try to disobey a cop when he pulls you over for speeding.   In the US you could get 12 in the chest if you're not careful.   So like it or not, we have ALL been dominated at one point or another.   And we are all still dominated by them.

The fact is, even if you have the most dominant dom, by the logic we are using - then you are still being dominated by their parents, teachers, coaches, and even the government and society.   But I would also say that a switch recognizes this fact and has a unique ability to be flexible where they can play both a dominant role and a submissive one; and perhaps it is not an issue with the switch, but your own biases which are sabotaging your relationships with them.

But hey... I'm not against sabotaging.   Preferences are preferences.   Perhaps you never want to play a dominant role - this would make it hard for a switch, so it would be better if you never started a relationship with them.   However I am against this idea of making an entire group seem... off.   We've done this many times in the past where we didn't like or mesh with a specific group of people and then tried to make up stuff in our heads to separate ourselves from them and justify it.   Perhaps it is your wish to avoid playing a dominant role that causes you to create far reaching ideas for how to justify avoiding relationships with switches?   Maybe it's something deeper?   Maybe something to think about and explore about yourself?

Ultimately, I don't care about a person's preferences.   Some people like dating only whites, others only blacks.   Some only want to talk to people who speak german or french.   Some people like impact play, others don't want any ***.   Some people absolutely want rimming, while others are disgusted by scat play.   And some don't want to date switches.   Your preferences are your own and you don't need to justify them.   But trying to justify your avoidance on a whole group of people based on some vague notions that somehow you would feel even more of a sub underneath them is I think reflecting more about your own biases than an actual reality.

And even that is ok - I mean there will probably be some who have a kink that they want to be a sub-sub.   That by being a sub to a switch who then gets instructions from a domme - that would turn them on.   However - just because they believe they are a sub-sub, doesn't make it a reality.   But hey... if they get off on it... why not?   Let them think whatever they want if they enjoy it and get into a sub space they enjoy.   But I would never expect them to say "You're not really a sub until you date a switch... only then can you truly be dominated and be a true submissive."   That would just be silly... but they can express themselves this way if they want to - no matter how off the wall it may seem.   But I'll still correct them.   Hopefully without destroying their fantasy.

A kink is not logical - it just is.   It doesn't need to be justified nor can it be justified.   Trying to justify it or your preferences will make you go insane.   It's just the way your brain works and hopefully you find someone who can scratch that itch.   However - I really can't abide with ***ting people with their own specific kinks (ie switches) as somehow being 'not right' or 'not safe'.   That's not really being accepting of other people's kinks and really puts people down who are not of the same mindset as yourself.

Final point - I know you weren't meaning any harm in your comment towards switches.   In order to think - you need to speak.   And when you speak, there is a risk that the things you say - some people may find offensive.   (oooo... such a touchy word these days... "offensive"... I wonder if anyone is offended because I used the word offensive?   Or do I really care?)   But if you never speak - then those thoughts (offensive or not) remain in your head and can never be challenged or corrected - they grow like a cancer.   So speak away - you have the freedom of speech - I'm just here to challenge your thinking and don't take any offense to your growth as a person.   In fact I'm glad you shared your thoughts so that topics like these can be discussed.   And hopefully if there is something I said that someone believes I'm in error with - they too will speak out and challenge my thoughts in a respectful way.   We all need to grow.

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, PanamaJoe said:

First of all - I would say that if you are uncomfortable with switches - then by all means you should avoid getting into relationships with them.   We all have our biases, attractions, and no go zones and if someone doesn't mesh - then they just won't mesh.   Trying to push it further is like pushing on a rope.

That said however, I would disagree with the viewpoint that somehow under a switch you would be more dominated than someone who is purely dominant.   The fact is that no one is a pure dominant.   We have all as children been dominated by our parents - during the most formative years of our lives.   And then our teachers.   I mean heck - go ahead... try to disobey a cop when he pulls you over for speeding.   In the US you could get 12 in the chest if you're not careful.   So like it or not, we have ALL been dominated at one point or another.   And we are all still dominated by them.

The fact is, even if you have the most dominant dom, by the logic we are using - then you are still being dominated by their parents, teachers, coaches, and even the government and society.   But I would also say that a switch recognizes this fact and has a unique ability to be flexible where they can play both a dominant role and a submissive one; and perhaps it is not an issue with the switch, but your own biases which are sabotaging your relationships with them.

But hey... I'm not against sabotaging.   Preferences are preferences.   Perhaps you never want to play a dominant role - this would make it hard for a switch, so it would be better if you never started a relationship with them.   However I am against this idea of making an entire group seem... off.   We've done this many times in the past where we didn't like or mesh with a specific group of people and then tried to make up stuff in our heads to separate ourselves from them and justify it.   Perhaps it is your wish to avoid playing a dominant role that causes you to create far reaching ideas for how to justify avoiding relationships with switches?   Maybe it's something deeper?   Maybe something to think about and explore about yourself?

Ultimately, I don't care about a person's preferences.   Some people like dating only whites, others only blacks.   Some only want to talk to people who speak german or french.   Some people like impact play, others don't want any ***.   Some people absolutely want rimming, while others are disgusted by scat play.   And some don't want to date switches.   Your preferences are your own and you don't need to justify them.   But trying to justify your avoidance on a whole group of people based on some vague notions that somehow you would feel even more of a sub underneath them is I think reflecting more about your own biases than an actual reality.

And even that is ok - I mean there will probably be some who have a kink that they want to be a sub-sub.   That by being a sub to a switch who then gets instructions from a domme - that would turn them on.   However - just because they believe they are a sub-sub, doesn't make it a reality.   But hey... if they get off on it... why not?   Let them think whatever they want if they enjoy it and get into a sub space they enjoy.   But I would never expect them to say "You're not really a sub until you date a switch... only then can you truly be dominated and be a true submissive."   That would just be silly... but they can express themselves this way if they want to - no matter how off the wall it may seem.   But I'll still correct them.   Hopefully without destroying their fantasy.

A kink is not logical - it just is.   It doesn't need to be justified nor can it be justified.   Trying to justify it or your preferences will make you go insane.   It's just the way your brain works and hopefully you find someone who can scratch that itch.   However - I really can't abide with ***ting people with their own specific kinks (ie switches) as somehow being 'not right' or 'not safe'.   That's not really being accepting of other people's kinks and really puts people down who are not of the same mindset as yourself.

Final point - I know you weren't meaning any harm in your comment towards switches.   In order to think - you need to speak.   And when you speak, there is a risk that the things you say - some people may find offensive.   (oooo... such a touchy word these days... "offensive"... I wonder if anyone is offended because I used the word offensive?   Or do I really care?)   But if you never speak - then those thoughts (offensive or not) remain in your head and can never be challenged or corrected - they grow like a cancer.   So speak away - you have the freedom of speech - I'm just here to challenge your thinking and don't take any offense to your growth as a person.   In fact I'm glad you shared your thoughts so that topics like these can be discussed.   And hopefully if there is something I said that someone believes I'm in error with - they too will speak out and challenge my thoughts in a respectful way.   We all need to grow.

You've written a lot, so thank you for giving me things to think about. There are one or two points that I'm going to challenge back on. I did not say that switches were unsafe. I said they made me feel unsafe. That's *how i feel* and that is valid. Yes, it comes from my own issues and biases, but what I was trying to discuss in my forum post was the roots of instinctive feelings. That is my *instinctive feeling*. Also, what you don't cover, and what was really the crux of my point, is the reason for my discomfort: that switches who Dom me are going to be Dommed by others and *whether that's a direct line or not*, it unnerves me because it's an influence from a person I can't see or know. You are absolutely correct when you say we're all influenced by Dominant ***s - parents, teachers, cops, Doms. But my feelings remain valid. I have issues with trust - not the don't hurt me kind of trust, the you can lean on me kind of trust - and that influences who I choose to dominate me and why. 


Again, thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate them - bar the ones that imply I'm switch bashing. I am not, I am only trying to understand myself and why I instinctively veer away from them, because I know I am denying myself what could be excellent opportunities and I would like to change that. Understanding first, change after. 

[ey****]

Not wishing to be too pedantic - but there is a fundamental difference between following the rules of the land, workplace, household - and submission to another individual

The concept or respecting an authority figure is a whole different ball game to a D/s relationship - ditto for disrespect of an authority figure : not every person has good parents, some cops are corrupt, some teachers are unsuitable, some bosses are bullies and/or have unfair practices.

I switch.  There are very few people I do any form of switching with; most people is one or the other.  My long term relationship is with my wife but while we are both kinky, we are not in a D/s relationship.   I have been in D/s relationships in this time but most has been casual play (even if some are long term play partners to some degree)

And so as a side note - for some people any form of casual play is a no no, and I wouldn't default to talking people round to it.

A lot of folk feel switches get somewhat of a rough time, but, I don't feel that.  I think if I meet someone who is (say) a sub who is not interested in being with a switch, and only wants a relationship with a Dominant, then we're not compatible. Just like we would not be compatible if I wasn't a switch but a sub, or was a Dominant - but had wildly different ideas to them.

Equally I meet people who are perfectly happy with me being a switch, in some cases with them, in most cases : as long as I don't wish to switch with them.

When I first joined my local kink community, there were people where it was a switch in a relationship with a non-switch, and the non-switch simply did not wish to see their switch partner doing the other role.  They were happy for them to do so, they just didn't want to see it or know the details because it affected their own perception and headspace.

To a little degree, that's on them, but sometimes the best way to even decide if you need to work through something is to focus on what you are happy to do, rather than convince yourself to do something you're not (presently) happy with.

Arguably, it might be that someone is missing out by not wishing to do something with a switch, but to me that's slightly flawed - in the sense that someone who won't do whatever else is against their current limits isn't missing out either  

 

[PanamaJoe]

Cool - thanks for the clarification.

And I agree that it's necessary to really examine your feelings sometimes and figure out why you have them - especially if they block you from going forward in a particular direction.  Lord knows I'm doing the same.   But just like kinks and preferences - I find feelings pretty hard to pin down.   Feelings are much more flaky in that they can change over time, your mood, the weather... I mean think about how many people felt appalled by BDSM and then love it when they get a taste of it.   And now they can't go back to vanilla.

You know - this is an aside but it might help you out.   There was a point in life where I hated regular cheese.   I didn't like the taste, the flavor... I just avoided it.   But then I was introduced to it properly... with slices of fruit and crackers.   After that I couldn't get enough of the stuff.   Maybe in the same way, your initial foray into relationships with switches was just awkward and you didn't like the taste it left behind.   Maybe you just weren't introduced to it properly and maybe if you found a proper switch it might change things around.

Don't know - such is life.   We can't always control how people introduce themselves into our lives and you never get a second chance to make a first impression.   I wish you all the best on your path to self discovery.

[PanamaJoe]

12 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

Not wishing to be too pedantic - but there is a fundamental difference between following the rules of the land, workplace, household - and submission to another individual

As far as being a pure dom vs a switch - I would still argue that there is a switch in all of us.   You just wouldn't survive if you couldn't turn from a dom to a sub on a dime.   It just depends on the situation.   A courtroom might be different than a bedroom... but you sure as hell will know how to act and be submissive when the judge talks to you.   So you still have that submissive side in you - even if you never show it in the bedroom.   As far as I'm concerned, the only ones who don't have a submissive side are psychopaths and narcissists.   They can only act submissive - but never BE submissive.   Just like they can only act sad - but never BE sad.

And thinking about it... even in the bedroom.   If the sub you're with all of a sudden gets furious and says that you hurt them and they're going to call the cops to have you arrested... you watch how quickly the dom turns into a sub in that situation.   Pleading that they don't call the cops.   Or do you expect the dom to slap the sub across the face and say "you're not calling anyone!" ?   Besides being non-consensual, that can very quickly spiral out of control!   There is a reason why doms are expected to use safewords - in those rare cases when you have an intense session where the sub goes into a panic and is mad enough to kill you because of the fight or flight response, you need to have a way to calm them down and bring them back to reality before you untie them.

Ultimately... I believe we're all subs... the dom is the act.   But that's just my opinion.

[se****]

Switch here. All I have to say is "What works for one may not work for another". Trying to be open minded, and giving things a chance is a Great thing, but sometimes it can actually bite you on the butt. If it cause more stress and negative, than the benefits... it is better to limit one's self. Health and happiness comes first! I am a Mono person, and gotten so much grief for it. Maybe I will miss out on greatest kink experiences, but this what works for me.