Free Will & Human Rights As A Submissive ✒

[Os****]

Free Will & Human Rights As A Submissive.


Most Dominants want their submissive to give up their free will. Some want them to give up their human rights.

But in the BDSM world, this is really just an illusion, dependent on the commitment of the submissive to the Dominant.

Legally, the submissive still has free will and human rights when in a dynamic.

That is why consent and nonconsent are so important to remember.

When you consent to submit to a Dominant free will is still something that a submissive deals with constantly. With each command of the Dominant, the submissive freely chooses to submit to the command or not. It is their commitment to the Dominant that factors into how well they will submit. But even that commitment, is by choice of free will.

Any Dominant that tries to “train” the free will out of a submissive is actually not being Dominant, but domineering and abusive, just like an abusive husband that tries to make a wife so dependent on him that the wife has no choice but to stay, no matter what the *** she takes.

Every submissive has human rights, even in a BDSM dynamic. The submissive can consent to anything they choose through free will. But legally, the human rights we all have can be applied to make certain things illegal for the Dominant to do to a submissive, even with consent.

It also is the reason why revoking consent is the submissive’s right to do at any time for any reason.

Again, the commitment to the Dominant and the dynamic is what keeps a submissive from doing whatever they please.

But commitment alone is no reason to remain in an abusive dynamic or with an abusive Dominant.

Submissives need to know the difference between commitment and free will.




♾ OsPando 🎩


#BDSM #BDSMcollars #BDSMcurious #Dominant #Submissive #Kink #kinkfriendly #Kinks #kinkcurious #Brat #roleplay #DDLG #Kinkster #Dom #Sub #BDSMdom #BDSMsub

[Deleted Member]

I have not experienced any dominant wanting me to give up my free will. Or my human rights. Even as an illusion. Are you asking any questions or just publishing your fixed views?

[Os****]

29 minutes ago, inconceivable said:

I have not experienced any dominant wanting me to give up my free will. Or my human rights. Even as an illusion. Are you asking any questions or just publishing your fixed views?

No questions asked...

[Deleted Member]

13 minutes ago, OsPando said:

No questions asked...

Why post in a forum then? If you don't want to discuss ideas, theories, situations, sexuality, kink - if all you want is for people to validate your thoughts? I don't understand this.

[Deleted Member]

Commitment doesnt really factor into a submissive following their dominants orders. It’s about respect. It’s about feeling safe in the dynamic. Your post is confusing and honestly just sounds like projecting.

[Os****]

12 minutes ago, inconceivable said:

Why post in a forum then? If you don't want to discuss ideas, theories, situations, sexuality, kink - if all you want is for people to validate your thoughts? I don't understand this.

Look in the process of a prospective sub, I ask about previous experience, and she brings this situation, is for this I wrote something about.

[Os****]

12 minutes ago, darlingjay said:

Commitment doesnt really factor into a submissive following their dominants orders. It’s about respect. It’s about feeling safe in the dynamic. Your post is confusing and honestly just sounds like projecting.

If you pay attention to all the writings that have been done up to this point, you will realize that I try to put emphasis on problems within our community.
Just because I write about dragons does not mean that I am a dragon.

[Deleted Member]

12 minutes ago, OsPando said:

Look in the process of a prospective sub, I ask about previous experience, and she brings this situation, is for this I wrote something about.

You misunderstand me. I am challenging you about the format of your posts, not the content. It's a forum. Forums are for discussion, in my opinion. But you don't invite any discussion of the topic.

[Os****]

3 minutes ago, inconceivable said:

You misunderstand me. I am challenging you about the format of your posts, not the content. It's a forum. Forums are for discussion, in my opinion. But you don't invite any discussion of the topic.

Ok, when I said no questions asked.
I was meaning a particular subject to be over the table and will open a discussion.
Remember Ethical debate are great.

[Th****]

3 minutes ago, OsPando said:

If you pay attention to all the writings that have been done up to this point, you will realize that I try to put emphasis on problems within our community.
Just because I write about dragons does not mean that I am a dragon.

It's awfully arrogant for you to think that anyone is reading all or any of your other writings and that each one doesn't need to make sense and be clear on its own. It's also pretty arrogant for you to speak for "most dominants" as to what they want. 

[Os****]

5 minutes ago, ThaliaVirago said:

It's awfully arrogant for you to think that anyone is reading all or any of your other writings and that each one doesn't need to make sense and be clear on its own. It's also pretty arrogant for you to speak for "most dominants" as to what they want. 

Wasn't my intention sounds Arrogant, I can't speak for another perspective.
Maybe opinionated, yes. But bring a controversial subject over the table will be always in the long-term a benefit for open minded

[VexDA]

The BDSM lifestyle has always been a hunting ground for abusive people and professional victims. I remember there was a woman (20 years ago) who posted photos of her "Dom's" work. Her busted cheekbone, her busted lip, her swollen jaw. She submitted with her photo how she did what he said, how this was part of her role as a sub, etcetera. She wasn't the first.

While 20 years ago is different from today, there is still *** and this is still a hunting ground. Recently I was apprised of another form of *** in a D/s dynamic, not as harsh as physical but still harsh when someone slowly and unexpectedly begins to use *** tactics to mentally deconstruct someone... no consent. And that's the magic of professional ***rs, they know how to manipulate (gaslight) so one thinks it's okay, normal, part of the dynamic.

I don't think OsPando is wrong in putting this out there as a fair statement. There are not always strong minded people in this lifestyle who can see an abusive situation coming or realize they may be in one. Even in a vanilla dynamic people get sucked in, and yes, there are perpetual victims who find themselves always gravitating towards abusive situations through this lifestyle.

TES is a great place to actually find information on how to avoid or escape situations in the lifestyle that one might find themselves having to escape. Why does that information exist? Because there are those who call themselves Dominant for the sole purpose of finding someone to control and not for the right reasons.

[Si****]

12 minutes ago, OsPando said:

Ok, when I said no questions asked.
I was meaning a particular subject to be over the table and will open a discussion.
Remember Ethical debate are great.

How is this post supposed to promote discussion?
Sounds like preaching to me!

(And the formatting is ***ful to read too)

[Os****]

9 minutes ago, 4RCH said:

How is this post supposed to promote discussion?
Sounds like preaching to me!

(And the formatting is ***ful to read too)

You have the entitlement to your opinion, but not to a fact.

Abusive "dominant" is a fact. Also Abusive bully in the vanilla side is also a fact.

[Si****]

4 minutes ago, OsPando said:

You have the entitlement to your opinion, but not to a fact.

Abusive "dominant" is a fact. Also Abusive bully in the vanilla side is also a fact.

This still doesn't explain how this post is supposed to promote discussion about the topic. 
All I see is lots of back and forth about how this is a preachy post and how it's poorly formatted. 

 

But let's give it a go.........

 

20 hours ago, OsPando said:

Most Dominants want their submissive to give up their free will. Some want them to give up their human rights.

That's the first line in your post and it's unsubstantiated, unqualified bullshit!

• Where did you get your information from?
• What research have you done? 
• How many Dominants did you interview?
• How many submissives?
• What qualifies you to make such a claim?
• How long have you been involved in the BDSM lifestyle?
• Do you understand the difference between a Dominant and an ***r?

Let's discuss........
 

[an****]

I’ve said, from the beginning of my journey of just shy of 3 years, unless the dom is ill intended and or wants to harm, ultimately I have the control. Without me, the dom has no purpose either. But that goes both ways with purpose of each role..

[Os****]

7 minutes ago, analangel said:

I’ve said, from the beginning of my journey of just shy of 3 years, unless the dom is ill intended and or wants to harm, ultimately I have the control. Without me, the dom has no purpose either. But that goes both ways with purpose of each role..

That's exactly what I'm trying to explain. The sub gives us, as a gift the power to use the control of using the power in an empowered way and its consent is crucial in addition to being able to be revoked at any time. which shows that the one who really has the power is the sub.

[an****]

I won’t pick apart your statement- it’s dumb to argue

However, I have had more than a few always tell me I’m a brat or that I’m not a true sub because I say what I commented above. Unless your wish is to harm or are ill intended to make me do things I do not want to do- I hold the control. I allow myself to be the muse

I had a dear friend who was a magnificent man and lusting lover, touched base with me after a 2 yr hiatus and asked me to be his sub- but he couldn’t get past my statement. Ugh. Whatever

Another example for me was a mfm with my current daddy and an old playmate Aussie friend of mine. Daddy and I were having all the fun and my old Aussie friend was off- well he was either too low to be effective - no mid leveling vibe at all tho. But he asked me if he could slap me, I said yes. And the next thing i heard were birds as he fucking half Beethovened the fuck out of my head and ear. I was able to brush it off but it was like wtf. He never even thought to ease into it.. and then my ear? The night was saved but that put me off to the point of almost crying and also put my daddy in a spot of fight or flight but thankfully my daddy was able to read me to know that I was okay enough and would let him know if I needed his intervention

[gi****]

I find that I struggle with the premise here. Not because I struggle with the idea that there are many ***rs that use the cover of BDSM for their ***. That is true now, and has been true over the 30+ years I've been a part of this community, or at least adjacent to it. There are those that prey on others (and not in the "primal" sense). These individuals need to be called out for their behavior and what they do needs to be addressed. Here are some of the things that I struggle with in this post.

1) "Most dominants want their submissive to give up their free will"--this is a rhetorical device that seems to conflate domination and ***. Most dominants that I have known, and many I have read and interacted with here on FET, engage in open and active communication with submissives about their desires, needs, boundaries/limits, etc. They make certain that there is care during play, aftercare afterwards, and safewords that they encourage to be used when something isn't going quite right. This is at the core of bdsm, and it is why it has come up in so many different discussions in the Forum.

2) Free will. A definition of free will is helpful in this case. "the supposed power or capacity of humans to make decisions or perform actions independently of any prior event or state of the universe." (from Britannica online) The foundation of the lifestyle is consent. The ability to say yes and no. The vast majority of the dominants that I have known respect and encourage consent. There are, as one submissive who I talked to so aptly put it, horny, kinky bullies. But, importantly, these are different than dominants. Are there many of them, without a doubt. Do most dominants encourage their submissives to give up their free will, not in my experience. They value and encourage submissives right to choose.

3) Human rights. Again, a definition is helpful. "Human rights are rights inherent to all human beings, regardless of race, sex, nationality, ethnicity, language, religion, or any other status. Human rights include the right to life and liberty, freedom from slavery and ***, freedom of opinion and expression, the right to work and education, and many more. Everyone is entitled to these rights, without discrimination." (United Nations). Many acts in BDSM may appear to violate these. But, foundational to both human rights and the lifestyle is the individual's right to choose. Your post conflates, in my opinion, human rights, illegality, and the lifestyle. There are certainly ***rs who violate the human rights of submissives. But, do the majority of dominants violate submissives' human rights by tying them up, flogging/whipping them, etc., no, I don't believe so. They are engaging in consensual activities that both parties have agreed upon. Inherent in *** of human rights is that one entity has seized the power from another. There is no consensual exchange of power in this ***. In BDSM, there is an exchange of power between the dominant and submissive that is at odds with the premise that dominants violate submissives human rights.

3) In some ways, again to me, there is some virtue signaling here. Again, a definition "the public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or social conscience or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue." As has been said by others, this post reads more like an article than a discussion. There isn't an invitation to discuss in this. A question may be asked that would open this to discussion, such as: "How can a dominant encourage the free will and honor the human rights of the submissive?" A valid and important question. The post may also have highlighted that there are risks of the dominant restricting a submissive's free will. Also, quite a valid point and one that could be discussed. I honestly mean no disrespect in calling this virtue signaling. But, this doesn't seem to open to a discussion or invite introspection or reflection.

[Os****]

5 minutes ago, giraut said:

I find that I struggle with the premise here. Not because I struggle with the idea that there are many ***rs that use the cover of BDSM for their ***. That is true now, and has been true over the 30+ years I've been a part of this community, or at least adjacent to it. There are those that prey on others (and not in the "primal" sense). These individuals need to be called out for their behavior and what they do needs to be addressed. Here are some of the things that I struggle with in this post.

1) "Most dominants want their submissive to give up their free will"--this is a rhetorical device that seems to conflate domination and ***. Most dominants that I have known, and many I have read and interacted with here on FET, engage in open and active communication with submissives about their desires, needs, boundaries/limits, etc. They make certain that there is care during play, aftercare afterwards, and safewords that they encourage to be used when something isn't going quite right. This is at the core of bdsm, and it is why it has come up in so many different discussions in the Forum.

2) Free will. A definition of free will is helpful in this case. "the supposed power or capacity of humans to make decisions or perform actions independently of any prior event or state of the universe." (from Britannica online) The foundation of the lifestyle is consent. The ability to say yes and no. The vast majority of the dominants that I have known respect and encourage consent. There are, as one submissive who I talked to so aptly put it, horny, kinky bullies. But, importantly, these are different than dominants. Are there many of them, without a doubt. Do most dominants encourage their submissives to give up their free will, not in my experience. They value and encourage submissives right to choose.

3) Human rights. Again, a definition is helpful. "Human rights are rights inherent to all human beings, regardless of race, sex, nationality, ethnicity, language, religion, or any other status. Human rights include the right to life and liberty, freedom from slavery and ***, freedom of opinion and expression, the right to work and education, and many more. Everyone is entitled to these rights, without discrimination." (United Nations). Many acts in BDSM may appear to violate these. But, foundational to both human rights and the lifestyle is the individual's right to choose. Your post conflates, in my opinion, human rights, illegality, and the lifestyle. There are certainly ***rs who violate the human rights of submissives. But, do the majority of dominants violate submissives' human rights by tying them up, flogging/whipping them, etc., no, I don't believe so. They are engaging in consensual activities that both parties have agreed upon. Inherent in *** of human rights is that one entity has seized the power from another. There is no consensual exchange of power in this ***. In BDSM, there is an exchange of power between the dominant and submissive that is at odds with the premise that dominants violate submissives human rights.

3) In some ways, again to me, there is some virtue signaling here. Again, a definition "the public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or social conscience or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue." As has been said by others, this post reads more like an article than a discussion. There isn't an invitation to discuss in this. A question may be asked that would open this to discussion, such as: "How can a dominant encourage the free will and honor the human rights of the submissive?" A valid and important question. The post may also have highlighted that there are risks of the dominant restricting a submissive's free will. Also, quite a valid point and one that could be discussed. I honestly mean no disrespect in calling this virtue signaling. But, this doesn't seem to open to a discussion or invite introspection or reflection.

Thanks, finally you bring valid concepts and common sense

[Deleted Member]

3 hours ago, OsPando said:

Thanks, finally you bring valid concepts and common sense

That's a little disrespectful of all the other comments made. I pointed out that as a sub, I'd not encountered any Dom who behaved as you suggest most Doms do. And I also suggested you were not seeking discussion.

[Si****]

20 minutes ago, inconceivable said:

That's a little disrespectful of all the other comments made. 

I couldn’t agree more!

[AKA_Copper]

Crikey, that's a pretty restrictive/narrow view of D/s relationships! Not all stypes give up free will? That's the point of limits and consent?
It's also a really inappropriate use of the ECHR (or whatever Act is being referenced depending on country) for all the reasons suggested by Giraut and more.
But, if we're applying it I'd challenge your thinking and argue (if you're open to discussion) that Art.8 and Art.10 of the HRA98 actually provides us with the right to live our lives as we please, privately and without interference and to therefore engage in BDSM activities (whether we're legally able to consent to being harmed or not but, let's be honest, that's just one potential aspect).
Perhaps the OP was designed to highlight the potential for subs to experience ***. Likewise, there's the potential for Dtypes to have the same/different risks. That's true in all walks of life. But, citing the HRA to validate your thoughts? Poor choice IMO

[fiend_13]

"Most Dominants want their submissive to give up their free will" is an unsubstantiated claim which cannot be backed up by any data. If the opening premise is as deeply flawed as this then why post it at all? It's an insult to Doms everywhere who actively promote respect and safety in a dynamic. If a new and inexperienced sub were to read this post it could possibly give them a very skewed perspective of what Ďoms are like. Though you could, in their eyes, be seen as one of the rare "good guys" in a horde of stereotyped ***rs. Is this whole post designed to cast yourself as a white knight? If you want to promote your own merits, please do so in a positive fashion which focuses on what you can bring to the table rather than simply demoting the rest of us by generalizing us as ***rs who do not respect human rights.

[Mi****]

Yesterday at 11:38 AM, inconceivable said:

Why post in a forum then? If you don't want to discuss ideas, theories, situations, sexuality, kink - if all you want is for people to validate your thoughts? I don't understand this.

Someone needs to to the lifestyle could come across this and it could help them out. It’s not a bad thing.