The Divide: Dominant Women and What They Seek compared to Submissives and What They Seek.

[Deleted Member]

Friday at 10:51 AM, ThaliaV said:

The entitlement here is a huge part of why a lot of Doms are so averse to newbies. They want to be spoon fed and as has been mentioned those newbies, way more often than not, take our time and effort for granted and are often afflicted with shiny object syndrome and end up being users. It's totally logical that Doms would become burnt out by this and not be so willing to take on newbies. 

We're still perfectly happy to coach and teach how we each want our *own* sub to be. Because.... newsflash.... we don't all have the same style and/or want the same things 😱 shocking right? But we've gotten to the point that we're tired and don't want to be covering 101 level stuff anymore. There absolutely is a huge amount anyone can learn all on their own before entering a dynamic. Showing initiative and learning as much as one can before and *while* searching for consistent play partners and/or a dynamic will absolutely make a sub stand out and they'll get scooped up quick by a genuine Dom. There is so much very easily accessible education available on the internet, fetlife's class and event listings in addition to groups and the thousands of writings there is especially a good starting place for finding all of these resources. There are in person events for learning and interacting with Dom  women. 

It's not that we're unwilling to teach *at all* but we need to not feel like we're the one putting in the much larger effort. 

I absolutely agree!! Tho I’m a sub I cannot/will not teach a guy how to be a Dom or handle men. 1st off on my side of things being Dom is not something I can teach. You either have it or not. Yes you learn along the way. However I need the basics already in place. I’ve never talked/met to any Master or Dom that’s committed to the lifestyle that will NOT teach/train his slave/sub. That is a given. Every single person is different in any dynamic.

[Deleted Member]

Friday at 10:51 AM, ThaliaV said:

The entitlement here is a huge part of why a lot of Doms are so averse to newbies. They want to be spoon fed and as has been mentioned those newbies, way more often than not, take our time and effort for granted and are often afflicted with shiny object syndrome and end up being users. It's totally logical that Doms would become burnt out by this and not be so willing to take on newbies. 

We're still perfectly happy to coach and teach how we each want our *own* sub to be. Because.... newsflash.... we don't all have the same style and/or want the same things 😱 shocking right? But we've gotten to the point that we're tired and don't want to be covering 101 level stuff anymore. There absolutely is a huge amount anyone can learn all on their own before entering a dynamic. Showing initiative and learning as much as one can before and *while* searching for consistent play partners and/or a dynamic will absolutely make a sub stand out and they'll get scooped up quick by a genuine Dom. There is so much very easily accessible education available on the internet, fetlife's class and event listings in addition to groups and the thousands of writings there is especially a good starting place for finding all of these resources. There are in person events for learning and interacting with Dom  women. 

It's not that we're unwilling to teach *at all* but we need to not feel like we're the one putting in the much larger effort. 

Sorry about my typos. I never proofread I just hit enter and hope for the best. I meant to say I cannot/will not teach a man to handle me. 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️My brain was going so much faster than my fingers could type. 😂😂However your comment is 100% spot on in my opinion. I feel the same way you do about it. You always comment in such an educated and respectful way to people.

[MistressWhipplash]

On 6/7/2024 at 5:48 AM, RannitheMoon said:

Sorry, I disagree. I was taught how to be a proper submissive in person, by other dommes throughout the years. I've learned so much from them. It just sounds like you don't want to put in the work to train and teach a submissive; respectfully. That's fine, but good luck finding someone who you can grow and build a trusting relationship together with.

I am not actually looking. I have live-in-Property so I'm dandy. Getting to know each other well and building deep trust while enjoying BDSM together is how we developed our long term relationship where I am Boss. Everyone has their own way. So you do you.

 

[fc****]

Thank you for the interesting topic.

Question 1: Do you feel that Divide is widening than in previous years? Do explain your answer a bit.

Question 1a: If you have a theory to your answer of yes or no Do give details.

I can't say for certain if the divide is widening, as there has seemingly been a common divide for as long as I have been active as a sub.  There has always been a shortage of dedicated service-oriented subs.  There has always been a glut of bottoms that mistake bottoming for submission.  

I do feel that the difficulty of finding a complementary people and partners has been rapidly increasing over the past few years.  If this is the divide, then my answer is yes, I believe it is widening.

As for theories, I have been watching Femdom change over the past twenty years and these are a few of the things that come to mind...

BDSM and FLR began to separate ~10 years ago and the divide has become more noticeable over the past 3-4 years.  Many BDSM communities have gone to great lengths to create an environment of (fairly) standard ethics and consent.  Some of this falls into conflict with the tenets of FLR or Femdom from an earlier eras.  I know in my local BDSM community, there are many woman tops but only a handful of woman dominants.

(I know other areas have BDSM communities where D/s is still active and present, but in mind it is only a very small percentage who partake in D/s anymore.)

The post-pandemic era has also created a greater influx of newbies than before.  The BDSM/FLR divide affects this as well, since people who have done some research may have educated themselves on BDSM, on FLR, or in many cases, porn.  

I have also found that BDSM terminology has lost a lot of its specificity over the years whereas it was fairly rigid in earlier years.  As such, I find it's even more common to find bottoms calling themselves slaves or subs, but I also find a number of tops that call themselves dominants.  It just makes it a lot harder to find someone else when the people you are finding are not necessarily the role that they identify as.  

I know it's a lot more complicated than this, but these are just some thoughts I had.  

Take care.

[Th****]

@fcsy What a refreshing addition to this conversation. 

I don't know that i feel the divide is actually widening though i do feel as of it appears as if it is. I feel like the reason is connected to what you mentioned in the influx of new people who aren't bothering to educate themselves at all and coming with preconceived ideas or aren't getting their information from quality sources and not verifying and/or cross checking their sources and information. This is essentially diluting the concentration of knowledgeable kinksters who are seeking the same things and making it much more difficult to find each other. 

I'm curious what you mean by the divide and separation of BDSM and Femdom or FLR due to ethics and consent. I don't see where the incompatibility lies. 

I totally agree with the terminology issue, a lot of people have gone a bit too literal with the "bdsm is whatever you want to make it" idea but also I feel like most of the newer people haven't even a clue what a top and bottom actually are in comparison to Dom and sub. There are a lot of people out there calling themselves Doms who are missing a lot of opportunities on fulfilling partnerships because they've got things so very fixed in their minds that they're a Dom and nothing else. 

I know that I'm definitely a Dominant when it comes to D/s, but I could also very happily be play partners with a lot of different types of tops. I also recognize that everyone might not be open to both D/s dynamics and more casual play partner relationships without D/s. 

[fc****]

2 minutes ago, ThaliaV said:

@ThaliaV

I'm curious what you mean by the divide and separation of BDSM and Femdom or FLR due to ethics and consent. I don't see where the incompatibility lies. 

Thank you for the kind words.  

Many of the groups in my local BDSM community use a common consent statement that act as sort of the baseline governing rules.  While I consider the overall message to be good, it was worded a bit loosely and is focused primarily upon casual and pickup play, but that aspect isn't stipulated, so the people who are educated within our community tend to view it as if it should apply to everyone and everything equally. To summarize it as succinctly as I can, it basically ***ts things like power exchange or punishment dynamics as things that are not ethically consensual and/or are abusive.  I have encountered a good number of people who entered the BDSM community looking for a power exchange relationship but after getting acclimated to the community they shifted more towards bottoming or topping since their desired version of D/s didn't fit what was being taught or practiced openly.

Over the past 5+ years I have watched the FLR movement try to distance itself from BDSM, with increasing intensity.  Some of this is due to many BDSM communities being heavily polyamorous, but there's also been a bit of an attitude of "this is how we live, not just things we do."  I have also seen the BDSM community shift further away from FLR for various reasons, consent being a big part of it but also due to changes in views on gender-identity and the like.  From my experiences, FLR more closely resembles Femdom/BDSM from ~20 years ago, a time when dominants were more likely to dictate how things would be and subs were given much less power in negotiation.  

As an avid Femdom blogger and blog reader for years, I've watched the separation happen gradually over time.  Sort of like the BDSM blogs have become more about play/scenes and FLR blogs are the ones talking about D/s.  

I hope this makes sense.  

[MistressWhipplash]

On 6/7/2024 at 8:52 PM, eyemblacksheep said:

there's stuff got a potential to go a bit off topic - but in this concepts

Relationships/dynamics require work from both people 

I don't think anyone is disputing that.

Prior to a dynamic/relationship starting - no one owes anyone else time or training.     Obviously there are people who will lend their time/skills/expertise in certain circumstances.  Like workshops, discussion groups, mentoring, whatever - that's entirely different.  But these are either within the community, or through people they have appropriate rapport with.

To be honest. If someone new/naive/etc is coming to community spaces then that is already an opportunity for their growth via the community

When it comes to relationships/dynamics - as I say this requires work from both people, and if someone doesn't appear to have put in reasonable effort into their own training, then this is a warning sign.

What is deemed to be reasonable effort, would depend on the individual.  Because it is often emotional labour, which is exhausting.  It's probably unsurprising some people are less willing if they spent time 'training' someone only for the person to say "you don't go far enough" - it's going to have them re-evaluate who they spend time on.

But then equally, if someone has been active on the community for 8 years, why would you need training?  Like. If a Domme went to me, "right, I want you as a sub" the only 'training' needed is how they like certain things (since I can't mind read) if they're like "Blacksheep, you're coming to Pedestal" then I don't need training because I know what is expected in Pedestal.  

We're ultimately responsible for our own learning.  It can be easier to do this *with* someone, but there has to be some benefit to them doing it *with* you. 

Getting to know each other first to check mutual compatibility and long term relationship goals/life goals are key. 

Establishing an Active Control Framework relationship based undivided needs and much more takes a huge amount of time.

When a newbie is in my inbox pushing for transactional kink I don't reply because his rudeness I ignore him and block. Experienced submissives and Slaves are my thing.

 

Yes I agree if a submissive has experience at Pedestal he is likely clued up in how to behave and may know the same people I do in a positive way, which helps. It is thrn a different sort of effort on my part- it is two experienced adults sharing more fun times rather then me "babysitting".

 

We are each responsible for our development in life whether work related, kink or emotional development. When I was very new I asked questions at play parties. I had a Kink diary of questions and I would write the answers on returning home. I did not expect to be spoon fed every drop of information about play parties and private kink parties or BDSM etiquette and safe play practices as a Dominant Sadist Woman. I occasionally spoke at length with a very experienced Submissive man but didn't want a play partner or Submissive until I gained a few years experience and knew how to manage potential issues in a kink scene. (Aftercare, drop etc.)

 

Funny note - I went to a ton of private play parties first before I eventually went to a Munch. I preferred to be social in a walking about environment rather than sitting to start new acquaintance conversations. That's a me thing.

[LadyV]

On 6/6/2024 at 7:40 PM, MistressWhipplash said:

The Divide: Dominant Women and What They Seek compared to Submissives and What They Seek.

Question 1: Do you feel that Divide is widening than in previous years? Do explain your answer a bit.

 

Question 1a: If you have a theory to your answer of yes or no Do give details.

I think it is the same divide that has always existed since I first got into kink about 11 years ago. Cishet men haven't done much to address their misogyny that creates it in the first place. The only difference is that kink has grown in mainstream popularity so now there's just more of the exact same in larger volumes and more frequent occurrences. Not different, just more men to cause problems with it. 

 

One thing that has been consistently true: 

What I want and what sub men are offering me are not the same thing. 

 

What I want is collaborative D/s with a heavy emphasis on service and S/M. 

 

What sub dudes continue to offer me is me serving their dicks and assholes. 

 

And they continue to be confused and angry about me not being interested in that. 

[goon2yu]

This is just my opinion after experiencing this lifestyle. I'm pretty sure I made every mistake a sub could make. My mindset, approach, respect, and ministry changed after I went through training. You may of noticed I used the term ministry. I was first introduced to D/s in 1987 in Neu Ulm, Germany . It would not be until 1989 after several recommendations I decided to attend a BDSM academy. It was not called a BDSM academy. It's actual name in the German language was "Order of Ministry".  There was a 6 week program and a 9 week program. Before they would even accept a potential sub, you had to be sponsored by a presiding member. (which was difficult).

The curriculum was very extensive where we had to take notes, and were given written, verbal and physical exams. The experience and training was life changing for me. Everything was focused on D/s as a form of art, like the performance arts. We were taught as submissive that we are in a Ministry. To an extent it was very religious as we would perform many forms of ritualistic type setups.

One of those setups, was Domme Approach. It was not called that. But in German it was kindred to approaching God. Several techniques were taught that were aligned to a Domme's personality type. There was a lot more involved, but to keep this brief, the training was instrumental in helping to change our mindset. I realize everyone is on different levels in their individual journey,  but it's not easy for a male sub to understand service to a Domme if he has not been through some type of training to help initiate the process of overcoming patriarchal conditioning and the masculine-subs right of self-fulfillment that comes through service of a Domme.

Reading books or online BDSM material is good, but just like taking a college course, more is really needed to change ones mindset to serve. I realize training is but a catalyst to a life long process, But in person training can help a male sub find peace as he slowly assimilates his inclinations through loyal service, with the objective of instilling the right mindset of admiration, adoration, and obedience to female authority.  

Yes, I know the journey of proving oneself worthy for a Domme can be an arduous process.  I suspect if you have less than 3 or 4 years experience in this lifestyle,  and still have yet to be serious about training, there's a chance you might not be ready for a Domme. Sometimes the Domme will appear when the sub is ready. Thanks for reading. 

 

 

[ey****]

34 minutes ago, goon2yu said:

This is just my opinion after experiencing this lifestyle. I'm pretty sure I made every mistake a sub could make. My mindset, approach, respect, and ministry changed after I went through training.

I'm going to say - I really enjoyed reading your experiences.   

I think there's a lot of people who maybe are struggling who can turn that round should they wish to, are willing to learn and are willing to grow.  The Ministry sounds really interesting and that it benefited you; I do feel a little that it might not work so much these days for a couple of reasons even if things are the same in essence.

So for example that 1987, there was internet but it wasn't widespread and so the info is there - and also a little that there are a lot of different ways to do kink - even though I think there's a lot which will have been in the training that guys wishing to appeal to Dominant Women can learn from, especially in what I assume is medium and high protocol settings. 

Mind I do think one big change is someone willing to commit to an intensive 6-9 week programme when they want a Domme within days haha

[2112Arashikami]

On 6/6/2024 at 9:40 PM, MistressWhipplash said:

The Divide: Dominant Women and What They Seek compared to Submissives and What They Seek.

Question 1: Do you feel that Divide is widening than in previous years? Do explain your answer a bit.

 

Question 1a: If you have a theory to your answer of yes or no Do give details.

I've been a part of the lifestyle since the late 90s. Since '07 and onward I have been on the outskirts of the scene as life, work, and family took precedence.  I can say from personal observation that there has been a change in how Dommes and subs interact since I started so many years ago.  Back in the beginning (for me at least), the I first stepped into the waters through the old Lifestyles BBS, which was a TELNET connection before all of the forums, dating sites, and other ways to communicate became more prevalent.  This led to me meeting my first Domme and learning under her for a year.  As time past and I learned more and more, I also began to attend Munches and other local events, which were few and far between because of where I live, and met others of similar mindset.  Nowadays I have found it is very difficult to find a Domme online due to the sheer number of scammers out there, and the best way to meet a Domme is local munches or events.  This is not to say you cannot meet a new Domme online, as I did meet one and we did have a glorious run, but that is a tale for another day. 

So yes, I think the Divide has grown.  It has become too easy for someone to create a profile, grab a pic and pretend.

For me as a sub, it takes time to meet and gain the trust of a Domme.  There has to be clear communication, especially in the beginning .   There is a level of respect to be offered initially, but in the first communication just being honest and frank can go a long way to building that trust.   I am more of an introvert, so at times it is more difficult for me to make the first move, but I do watch and try get the feel of a munch before interacting.  More often I spend more time taking with other subs than I do Dommes, but I also understand putting yourself out there and greeting a Domme can be the first step in a potential long lasting relationship.

[Ka****]

So how does one join the lifestyle trying to have exposure to such experiences?