Sexual shame in women

[Deleted Member]

I have a female friend and we have become quite close over the last 6 months.This wonderful human being has struggled all her life with sexual "shame" about the way she feels,Those urges/cravings we are all familiar with.You need to understand she is submissive only in the bedroom and in vanilla extremely strong-willed. She has an inner battle going on with what she feels and what she thinks is the right way to live her life. Ive explained to her she can't help what she is she just is but she struggles so much to accept those inner base instincts.

 

Is there anyone else out there who has been through a similar process of sexual shame, be it sub or dom, and how did you deal with it? How did you come to accept the reality of what you are and thereby find some measure of inner peace.

[Deleted Member]

She is not alone .

[ey****]

I think one big problem is that a lot to do with kink/fetish/etc that we're taught over the years almost tells us it's wrong or abnormal.

The media never *really* helps is that half makes it shameful and the other half over glamourises as this mythical 24/7 thing.  

Whilst online can be helpful - I've even sometimes had "do I really fit here?" kind of moments when comparing to others (golden rule: don't compare to others) whilst also I've sometimes found the behaviour/attitudes of some really do fit into negative stereotypes I've not wanted to be associated with.

I guess the thing to remember is you/she/everyone is not alone - there are others who've all got our weird and wonderful things which turn us on or make us happy - and that the diversity within this is also a good thing.

I think realising there are others can be a first step of accepting this is OK - and that yes, some things that might not seem normal... actually... are ok. 

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, LadyMidnight66 said:

She is not alone .

And this is what I need her to understand.I think she's so torn she feels isolated and I so want her to see there are others who feel the same

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I think one big problem is that a lot to do with kink/fetish/etc that we're taught over the years almost tells us it's wrong or abnormal.

The media never *really* helps is that half makes it shameful and the other half over glamourises as this mythical 24/7 thing.  

Whilst online can be helpful - I've even sometimes had "do I really fit here?" kind of moments when comparing to others (golden rule: don't compare to others) whilst also I've sometimes found the behaviour/attitudes of some really do fit into negative stereotypes I've not wanted to be associated with.

I guess the thing to remember is you/she/everyone is not alone - there are others who've all got our weird and wonderful things which turn us on or make us happy - and that the diversity within this is also a good thing.

I think realising there are others can be a first step of accepting this is OK - and that yes, some things that might not seem normal... actually... are ok. 

As always wise words Eyem and when I show her these replies I'm hoping it will help her settle.

[Annalou]

I think this is a really important discussion. From a very young age, as girls and then on to women, we are told that men are the sexual beings and we are just the objects there to please them. Sexual shame about both vanilla and kinky sexual preferences are, in my opinion, a product of that. It takes some work to get over the sexual shame, but I have faith that in a trusting and safe space your friend will be able to work through the shame and enjoy her kinks! 

[ca****]

I think this is kinda common (with its obvious individuality for each person) - but i know it does happen from first hand experience and also family members and also people i have talked with on Fet and other sites (not just Kink related either)

The common thread to me tends to be previous life experiences - ie where did her idea of what is correct come from - where, when,whom and why was it formed...  if those areas can be 'sensitively' addressed ... possibly a way forward.  Takes time and there is not set agenda

[Deleted Member]

58 minutes ago, Annalou said:

I think this is a really important discussion. From a very young age, as girls and then on to women, we are told that men are the sexual beings and we are just the objects there to please them. Shame about both vanilla and kinky sexual preferences are, in my opinion, a product of that. It takes some work to get over the shame, but I have faith that in a trusting and safe space your friend will be able to work through the shame and enjoy her kinks! 

Tha k you ever so much,the reason for this post is so I can show her the replies so first of all she sees she is not alone and has support from all sides of the community 😊

[As****]

An event in my youth along with years of the things said that my mother raised me with... I grew up believing a non moving female was only there for procreation and not sexual pleasure.

An event came up in my life where my mother even shamed me for enjoying anal. It wasnt until recently (over the last 3 years) that I was able to overcome a lot of the bullshit stigmatization that comes with anal, mess and all.

All in all, growing up and even adulting, I had to tell myself and justify to myself of why it was okay to like or be curious about something like being shocked or bruises.... it began that way with a lot of my piercings that I wanted back then.

Anal was the biggest issue I had had for so many years... and even now, when I'm feeling a bit insecure about myself and my life, I cant relate it to the stress of anal sex in the mindset I used to have.

I figure it means I have done a lot of self growth..... but I really couldn't have done it without the right partner. He never once made me feel ashamed for the days when my body just wouldn't cooperate, no matter how good I tried to eat. He didnt ever shame me for the nerve endings my body biologically had. He never once made me feel ashamed for any of the things I enjoyed. Period.

Sometimes it takes the right support system.

[zm****]

I feel she should look at her life like a story, and she is the protagonist, while there are some parts of the story that seem dark and cloudy, there are brighter parts full of care and light, she can try and pick apart the character, but she can't directly change what was written, instead she should try and find why she feels the way she does then try and be open towards it, she should see that the side characters in her story are exactly that, side characters and cant do really anything to her story, except help her grow and develop, she should focus on bringing her emotions together, instead of looking at them separately, because wether she's a strong willed woman, or a submissive little girl in the bedroom, she's still a person, and those two aspects of her thoughts and emotions are what makes her the perfect person in her own way, so instead of trying to figure out a way to fight how she feels, have her embrace her feelings and emotion, then she should be able to accept herself, and not those who won't bend in consideration....but that's just my thoughts, take it how you will

[my****]

Sex was passively shamed in my household growing up. It had taken me years to get over a lot of it, and there are still some things I am working on.

[Deleted Member]

8 hours ago, quietlysure said:

Interesting that this topic has arisen now, a question, what is the first thing you think when you think about Jack the rippers victims? You'll be surprised your probable answer is related to this topic

A strange post,to mention a man like that.Please enlighten me as I'm a little confused and seek clarification of the point you wish to make

[Deleted Member]

8 hours ago, zman1232 said:

I feel she should look at her life like a story, and she is the protagonist, while there are some parts of the story that seem dark and cloudy, there are brighter parts full of care and light, she can try and pick apart the character, but she can't directly change what was written, instead she should try and find why she feels the way she does then try and be open towards it, she should see that the side characters in her story are exactly that, side characters and cant do really anything to her story, except help her grow and develop, she should focus on bringing her emotions together, instead of looking at them separately, because wether she's a strong willed woman, or a submissive little girl in the bedroom, she's still a person, and those two aspects of her thoughts and emotions are what makes her the perfect person in her own way, so instead of trying to figure out a way to fight how she feels, have her embrace her feelings and emotion, then she should be able to accept herself, and not those who won't bend in consideration....but that's just my thoughts, take it how you will

I'm afraid you miss the point completely,I am not trying to "figure out a way to fight how she feels"as I clearly stated I have explained to her she can't help what she "feels".It's what she is and can't be changed.My point is how does she reconcile those emotions and where does she go from here.You say "have her embrace"how she feels and again you miss the point I'm afraid.If it were that easy this post would not exist,how do I make someone feel something they do not?How does she just throw a switch to turn off those emotions??The simple answer is she can't,hence the mental anguish she now feels.She has spent a lifetime wrestling with these opposing ***s within her,these two sides of her character battling for control and she is approaching a crossroads where she is going to make a decision one way or the other.This has to be her decision and hers alone,I am merely a close friend trying to help her find her way,trying to support her and show her there are others who struggle.This is a grown arsed lass,who is independent and no doormat to be ordered around and told what she is allowed to "feel"and bot feel.Im afraid it doesn't work that way and if one  the type to try and impose ones will on another who feels so strongly about something then one for me one deos not uderstand what the word "support"means.Yes she's submissive sexually but that does not make her a plaything that can be emotionally controlled.This is a hugely complex issue and something she has to work out herself,with support no matter what she chooses.Im her friend and if she chooses vanilla then I will still be her ftiend.My post was not about trying to "fix"her,only she can do that,my post was about seeking others points of view and personal experiences so I can show her she is not alone.

[Deleted Member]

4 hours ago, mystikitty said:

Sex was passively shamed in my household growing up. It had taken me years to get over a lot of it, and there are still some things I am working on.

I think that's the same for most of us,sex being a "dirty"word especially from the older generation.This is the crux on the debate though,how do we reconcile what "society"trells us how me must act/feel compared to how we actually act/feel.This is the conflict she is battling.Its so much easier for us men to accept what we are than lasses and society tells us as men if eh have lots of sexual partners amongst out peers we are something to be admired,a "stud"if you like however with lasses the implications for having those same wants/emotions are generally extremely negative .Something to be ashamed of,something that you just shouldn't be and again this is part of the root cause for how she feels.The way society conditions the different sexes to feel about themselves where sex is involved.

[J_****]

This is a subject that I can easily identify with.  First and foremost, my advice to you is to always make her feel safe and loved and respected and praise her for being her true self.  This will go a long way.

Now, let me give you a bit of my history to put my thoughts into perspective.  I was brought up in an environment that gave incredibly mixed messages regarding a woman's worth.  On the one hand it was measured by her virtue and strength, but on the other side of the coin, "Fuckability" was almost more important than virtue.  So she needed to be beautiful, sexy, and let's be honest..."Hot" (with strength and independence lending a hand in this package) while being deferential and virtuous and obedient.

Seriously mixed messages here!  My father would tell me almost daily that I had a nice pair of tits (to boost my self-esteem) but then disowned my *** because she moved in with her fiancé at 19 years old... because she was "shacking up".  

Then I married a man who was even more fucked up in his opinions.  He had a 12 foot satellite in his back yard to connect with German TV (he didn't speak German...two guesses what he watched!), but locked down the internet so tight that no porn sites could be accessed.  He swore blind he never masturbated and insisted our relationship was purely vanilla.

I wasn't allowed to be too forward in the bedroom, and when I slipped up once and asked him to fuck me harder, he stopped mid-thrust, rolled over and shunned me for being so disgusting.  All of these messages fucked with my head big time!  So for years I had not only severely repressed sexual desires, but also an overwhelming shame for even having those desires.  This manifested in full blown sexual dysfunction.  I didn't have my first orgasm until I was in my thirties!

Then by chance I met someone dominant minded who was kinky and fun and could read me like a book.  He once described me in one word as "underutilized" and all I could say was, "YES!!!".  In the bedroom he treated me like his personal cum slut and I fucking loved it!  He could get me to cum on command.  Talk about a complete turnaround!

But then outside of that dynamic, he was the first man to treat me with complete respect day-to-day.  He encouraged me to find my strength and stand up for myself.  He was the first man who wasn't domineering and controlling towards me.  And he encouraged me to be my true and authentic self.  That one relationship started me on a journey of self discovery that opened so many doors, but most of all made it so that I can look at myself unflinchingly in the mirror (all 24 stone of soft, curvy me) and be very proud of who I am.

I would encourage her to do some core belief work.  Every time she's triggered by anything, get her to write down the inner monologue.  This will be very difficult, so she will need a lot of gentle encouragement.  Then explore where those messages come from.  That voice in her head will not be her own.  It will be that of those who planted the seeds at an early age.

Then get her to challenge those thoughts and write a positive affirmation that reflects her true self.  Once she has those, she should repeat them to herself daily.  This will feel awkward and weird at first.  But you can rein*** this by repeating the same affirmations to her when doing a scene.  She will need to hear it from you because her sub nature will crave that approval.

It won't be an easy journey, but it won't be as hard as she may think either.  The one thing that helped me to find my true self was having someone I trusted give me permission to do so.   And none of my strong female vanilla friends would ever understand or approve of that.  

But I have learned that those not in this lifestyle WON'T approve and they don't have to. They need not know the details because what they WOULD approve of is me being my authentic self.  That's what it all boils down to after all. 

If she ever needs someone to talk to from a sub perspective, you may encourage her to contact me.  I'm happy to help where possible. xXx

[J_****]

9 minutes ago, quietlysure said:

Exactly my point, you remember the unknown man, but history has all but forgotten about Polly, Annie, Elizabeth, Catherine and Mary-Jane, unfortunate women who are the ones who should be remembered, no real evidence they were prostitutes, but because they were lower class women it was how they were seen, that was 1888, today in 2020 I sometimes wonder how much has actually changed in attitudes

I have to admit that I can't see the relevance to this topic and certainly don't understand how this will in any way help his friend to reconcile being her true self.  

 

Your message is valid, but not remotely related to this topic.

[Deleted Member]

46 minutes ago, quietlysure said:

Exactly my point, you remember the unknown man, but history has all but forgotten about Polly, Annie, Elizabeth, Catherine and Mary-Jane, unfortunate women who are the ones who should be remembered, no real evidence they were prostitutes, but because they were lower class women it was how they were seen, that was 1888, today in 2020 I sometimes wonder how much has actually changed in attitudes. Today if you go round London he is a tourist attraction, his name and images appear particularly in the area of the ***s, but what of the proud women who were daughters, ***s, aunts, wives, mothers, barely remembered because they were women

But i still don't see what that has to do with a woman who is struggling with two  deep and very different emotions.

[Deleted Member]

59 minutes ago, J_Darkmoon said:

This is a subject that I can easily identify with.  First and foremost, my advice to you is to always make her feel safe and loved and respected and praise her for being her true self.  This will go a long way.

Now, let me give you a bit of my history to put my thoughts into perspective.  I was brought up in an environment that gave incredibly mixed messages regarding a woman's worth.  On the one hand it was measured by her virtue and strength, but on the other side of the coin, "Fuckability" was almost more important than virtue.  So she needed to be beautiful, sexy, and let's be honest..."Hot" (with strength and independence lending a hand in this package) while being deferential and virtuous and obedient.

Seriously mixed messages here!  My father would tell me almost daily that I had a nice pair of tits (to boost my self-esteem) but then disowned my *** because she moved in with her fiancé at 19 years old... because she was "shacking up".  

Then I married a man who was even more fucked up in his opinions.  He had a 12 foot satellite in his back yard to connect with German TV (he didn't speak German...two guesses what he watched!), but locked down the internet so tight that no porn sites could be accessed.  He swore blind he never masturbated and insisted our relationship was purely vanilla.

I wasn't allowed to be too forward in the bedroom, and when I slipped up once and asked him to fuck me harder, he stopped mid-thrust, rolled over and shunned me for being so disgusting.  All of these messages fucked with my head big time!  So for years I had not only severely repressed sexual desires, but also an overwhelming shame for even having those desires.  This manifested in full blown sexual dysfunction.  I didn't have my first orgasm until I was in my thirties!

Then by chance I met someone dominant minded who was kinky and fun and could read me like a book.  He once described me in one word as "underutilized" and all I could say was, "YES!!!".  In the bedroom he treated me like his personal cum slut and I fucking loved it!  He could get me to cum on command.  Talk about a complete turnaround!

But then outside of that dynamic, he was the first man to treat me with complete respect day-to-day.  He encouraged me to find my strength and stand up for myself.  He was the first man who wasn't domineering and controlling towards me.  And he encouraged me to be my true and authentic self.  That one relationship started me on a journey of self discovery that opened so many doors, but most of all made it so that I can look at myself unflinchingly in the mirror (all 24 stone of soft, curvy me) and be very proud of who I am.

I would encourage her to do some core belief work.  Every time she's triggered by anything, get her to write down the inner monologue.  This will be very difficult, so she will need a lot of gentle encouragement.  Then explore where those messages come from.  That voice in her head will not be her own.  It will be that of those who planted the seeds at an early age.

Then get her to challenge those thoughts and write a positive affirmation that reflects her true self.  Once she has those, she should repeat them to herself daily.  This will feel awkward and weird at first.  But you can rein*** this by repeating the same affirmations to her when doing a scene.  She will need to hear it from you because her sub nature will crave that approval.

It won't be an easy journey, but it won't be as hard as she may think either.  The one thing that helped me to find my true self was having someone I trusted give me permission to do so.   And none of my strong female vanilla friends would ever understand or approve of that.  

But I have learned that those not in this lifestyle WON'T approve and they don't have to. They need not know the details because what they WOULD approve of is me being my authentic self.  That's what it all boils down to after all. 

If she ever needs someone to talk to from a sub perspective, you may encourage her to contact me.  I'm happy to help where possible. xXx

Thank you Darkmoon for your brutally to eat and open reply.This is the sort of musings I seek.

[Snakee]

Well I can't say I can identify as I've always been awkwardly open about my sexuality,  my kinks and all that 😂 but it's probably because I'm more of a non-binary.  In real life I have a rather masculine personality and I actually like being a weirdo.  I like to see the look on people's faces when they're clearly thinking..."wtf is wrong with you? 😵😳" 

So my question is...why is it so important to conform to the rules of society? (other than staying within legal limits of course). Do you really need everyone to agree with you?  Do you really need that self-validation so badly?  And are you really willing to sacrifice your own happiness to live up to the expectations of people who want you to be a different person from who you really are? 

...Just think about it 😉

[Deleted Member]

I guess your lady friend is of a certain age and it’s different now! Most 16 years old kids now talk about spanking and deepthroat like it’s a normal conversation. Everything on tv is sexualised with a hint of kinky side. 
maybe she need to go in an event where she could see more peoples embracing and  enjoying fetish or kinky sex without a problem. 
 

[Bi****]

Yes I can agree, most 16 year olds don't think deepthroating is kinky, its normal. Spanking is common place but is still in the kinky zone

[Fl****]

Well, I'm a huge furry and for a while my hormones were jumping beans, causing issues each day, but I tamed it over time and allowed whatever happens. She's not alone is what I can say

[J_****]

On 2/13/2020 at 1:40 PM, FabSeverus said:

I guess your lady friend is of a certain age and it’s different now! Most 16 years old kids now talk about spanking and deepthroat like it’s a normal conversation. Everything on tv is sexualised with a hint of kinky side. 
maybe she need to go in an event where she could see more peoples embracing and  enjoying fetish or kinky sex without a problem. 
 

I don't think this is really the issue.  It's not the kink side she's struggling with, if I read the original post correctly.  I think it's reconciling the polar opposites of being a strong, independent and fairly powerful woman in her day to day vs. being submissive by night.  

 

In some ways my struggle was the other way around.  I've always been naturally submissive and have had to learn how to be strong and independent and powerful in my working life.  

 

The thing that I would be inclined to emphasize is that there's always a balance in life (or should be).  So the submissive side is simply the other side of the coin.  The yin to the Yang, so to speak.  You don't have to be one or the other. x

[Wyattator]

One of the most difficult things about kink for me is that I'm such a ruthlessly independent person outside of the bedroom. It does not play well with the part of my brain that just wants to shut off and let my partner turn me into a writhing mess. It used to be that the vanilla side of me was embarrassed by how submissive I could be, and the submissive side was always trying to hide away my fierceness lest I scare away another Dom. Or worse, attract a sub that I'd have to disappoint. It took me years to come to the realization that people are more interesting when they're multi-faceted. I really like being interesting, even if I do scare off the occasional Dom.
Tell your friend it gets easier. Also, a little shame can be a nice spice!

[Ba****]

I felt the same. But I once was told to deny ourselves to be who we are isn't living. If you knew someone who hated a hobby you did should you stop that hobby? It's not wrong to be yourself. But I believe it's wrong to lie fo myself on who I am. We all have a deeper need, to not fill it is to not care for yourself fully. ( Based on personal experience )