I'm not Topping from the bottom

[AKA_Copper]

This week's learning from the forums... brats are still misunderstood (and in writing that/this, I'm not saying I am one)
.
To start - We. Do. Not. Need. Taming
It's a word thats thrown about like nobodies business by people who've no idea. It creates images of wild horses being broken in. The moment you treat us like feral ***s, you'll loose us. We arent wild because there's something wrong, we're testing the fence to see if it moves when we push. We're seeing how far we can go before you react. If your reaction changes every time, you’re not dominant enough for us, you’re a slot machine. And, given the link between brats and ADHD/ADD/ODD, we will chase the dopamine rush and pull on that lever forever because creating chaos is the whole damn point.
Real Dominance isn’t about the frequency or creativity of punishment. It’s predictability.
When the fence remains solid, we'll stop throwing ourselves at it just to test its strength. Instead, we'll start leaning on it, because we finally believe it will hold.
.
We might look chaotic, our world's can feel chaotic to us. The constant pushing of buttons can be an ask for structure and routine. At first we might respond to it like it’s a personal insult until we realise it’s still there even though we've done all we can to burn it down. To know that the routine didn’t flinch when we screamed, sulked or cried, helps to ground us and supports us to feel safe.
.
The harder we fight, the more we’re expressing an unmet need, that is, for you to be the immovable object to our unstoppable ***. Give us a Dom who wavers, bargains, or escalates into anger and we’ll stay feral forever. Give us a Dom who responds with tenacity and certainty and watch what happens: we dont disappear, far from it but, the pushing slows and what’s left is a submissive who finally feels safe enough to follow because someone was strong enough not to blink first.
.
We arent being manipulative.
We aren't Topping from the bottom
We don’t need taming.
.
Dominance needs to be constant, undeniable, and indifferent to tantrums. We need a Dom steady enough that the game lessens. If thats too much for you, rather than make accusations/complaints against them, leave them alone.

[Li****]

Thank you for putting into words something I was never able to. 💜

[An****]

Thank you for describing this in a way I cant

[Deleted Member]

First time EVER reading this description, which, may not apply to every brat's notion, but wow!! As a person who IS Neuro______, And lived as brat throughout my life, And has specific damage (as result of trauma), this applies to MY [being] brat as well as the wounded parts of Me not directly related to kink.

What astute assessment and iteration you've offered here.
I am very excited by this post and THANK YOU for capturing and expressing such a profundity, and one that I hadn't realised were the case for myself.

[Mr****]

Very concisely put. Well done for finding the words.It’s about a framework that is consistent and robust. Once it is established and trusted, then it can be used to develop a different dynamic. Far better to push against a rock than jump off the cliff. xx

[4R****]

Think I just fell a little bit in love with you CK!

[Deleted Member]

I appreciate the points raised here.

[Deleted Member]

Well said Cooper - here's hoping the message gets through to the people that need to embrace it!

[Ch****]

Ty, I never felt the, "topping from the bottom" rhetoric. Possibly someone a Brat po'd

[Wh****]

I felt this…

[Deleted Member]

I honestly don’t think you could have said it any better

[Bm****]

Perfectly put

[Se****]

I am saving this. Really, so good.

[Se****]

8 hours ago, AKA_Copper said:

This week's learning from the forums... brats are still misunderstood (and in writing that/this, I'm not saying I am one)
.
To start - We. Do. Not. Need. Taming
It's a word thats thrown about like nobodies business by people who've no idea. It creates images of wild horses being broken in. The moment you treat us like feral ***s, you'll loose us. We arent wild because there's something wrong, we're testing the fence to see if it moves when we push. We're seeing how far we can go before you react. If your reaction changes every time, you’re not dominant enough for us, you’re a slot machine. And, given the link between brats and ADHD/ADD/ODD, we will chase the dopamine rush and pull on that lever forever because creating chaos is the whole damn point.
Real Dominance isn’t about the frequency or creativity of punishment. It’s predictability.
When the fence remains solid, we'll stop throwing ourselves at it just to test its strength. Instead, we'll start leaning on it, because we finally believe it will hold.
.
We might look chaotic, our world's can feel chaotic to us. The constant pushing of buttons can be an ask for structure and routine. At first we might respond to it like it’s a personal insult until we realise it’s still there even though we've done all we can to burn it down. To know that the routine didn’t flinch when we screamed, sulked or cried, helps to ground us and supports us to feel safe.
.
The harder we fight, the more we’re expressing an unmet need, that is, for you to be the immovable object to our unstoppable ***. Give us a Dom who wavers, bargains, or escalates into anger and we’ll stay feral forever. Give us a Dom who responds with tenacity and certainty and watch what happens: we dont disappear, far from it but, the pushing slows and what’s left is a submissive who finally feels safe enough to follow because someone was strong enough not to blink first.
.
We arent being manipulative.
We aren't Topping from the bottom
We don’t need taming.
.
Dominance needs to be constant, undeniable, and indifferent to tantrums. We need a Dom steady enough that the game lessens. If thats too much for you, rather than make accusations/complaints against them, leave them alone.

There are many reasons why I call you a friend but this is a HUGE one. You put into words very eloquently what I struggle to say at times. Thank you for this explanation, it helps hugely. Here’s praying that the forumites who NEED to see it actually read it, comprehend it and take it on board and don’t let their egos prevent them from learning xxx

[ey****]

I genuinely hate "topping from the bottom" as a term, because it's so widely misused.  

Usually against female subs, but male subs can be on the receiving end also.  Cos like actual topping from the bottom can be an issue - micromanaging, especially midscene, intentional bait and switch -- particularly when not pre-agreed or part of a dynamic

But folk will call stuff like "using a safeword", "communicating likes/dislikes/preferences", "making suggestions", "asking to play / initating play" all is 'topping from the bottom' when they're all a key part of communication

[AKA_Copper]

1 hour ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I genuinely hate "topping from the bottom" as a term, because it's so widely misused.  

Usually against female subs, but male subs can be on the receiving end also.  Cos like actual topping from the bottom can be an issue - micromanaging, especially midscene, intentional bait and switch -- particularly when not pre-agreed or part of a dynamic

But folk will call stuff like "using a safeword", "communicating likes/dislikes/preferences", "making suggestions", "asking to play / initating play" all is 'topping from the bottom' when they're all a key part of communication

Noooo, I'm liking your less diplomatic comments elsewhere 🤣😂

[Ha****]

This reminds me of my husband 😂 @dommingloverman you read this?

[LittleLeo]

This is amazing, one of best most poetic explanations of the relationship.

It made me tingle all over just reading it.

[Deleted Member]

This is one of the clearest, most grounded explanations of brat dynamics I’ve seen on here.

 

What you’re describing isn’t “taming” at all - it’s containment. And that distinction matters.

 

Bratting, when it’s healthy, isn’t chaos for chaos’ sake. It’s information-seeking. Is the structure real? Is the response consistent? Does this person stay themselves when I push? As you said, if the reaction changes every time, it stops being dominance and turns into gambling for dopamine. That’s exhausting for everyone.

 

The line about dominance being predictability rather than punishment is especially important. A steady response - not louder, not crueler, not performative - is what creates safety. Anger, bargaining, or escalation doesn’t read as strength; it reads as instability. And instability invites more testing, not less.

 

I also really appreciate you naming that pushing is often an expression of unmet need, not manipulation or topping from the bottom. A Dom who understands that doesn’t take it personally and doesn’t need to “win.” They just hold the line calmly until the need underneath no longer has to shout.

And your final point matters: if someone doesn’t have the patience, emotional regulation, or consistency for this kind of dynamic, that doesn’t make the brat “too much.” It just means they’re mismatched - and walking away is far kinder than mislabelling or blaming.

 

Strong post. This should be required reading for anyone who throws the word taming around without understanding what brats are actually asking for.

[cl****]

Alot of brats show this behaviour outside of play however. I have a hard limit on bratting because i have found it to appear alot unconsented to as a communication style which becomes abusive.yes I get its around attention seeking etc and also personally unfulfilling dealing with unmet needs in this way rather than simply asking for it with self awareness. This looks like a constant need for validation often which is emotional labour that for me is better addressed elsewhere rather than D/s

[cl****]

(I will say I did have to cut off a few individuals in 2025 because of unconsented and disowned bratting behaviour which also meant the end of friendship in total-since dommes/doms are people too and have limits and don't owe anyone dominance if its unfulfilling)

[AKA_Copper]

9 hours ago, clear_spring said:

Alot of brats show this behaviour outside of play however. I have a hard limit on bratting because i have found it to appear alot unconsented to as a communication style which becomes abusive.yes I get its around attention seeking etc and also personally unfulfilling dealing with unmet needs in this way rather than simply asking for it with self awareness. This looks like a constant need for validation often which is emotional labour that for me is better addressed elsewhere rather than D/s

I would argue that they aren't brats

[ey****]

Like, I feel in general people's dynamics is between them - and most of the judginess towards brats comes from people of whom it doesn't concern.

This said, of course - there can be folk act up (online, or in community spaces) for attention/punishment/etc and it involves people not in their dynamic - and that's bad craic; but not just limited to brats. 

[cl****]

1 hour ago, AKA_Copper said:

I would argue that they aren't brats

They would argue differently. I.e. brat being a core identity within kink but also witnessing the behaviour as a relational dynamic outside of any play time. I agree its actually a sign of a highly dysregulated nervous system to the point of compulsion.

[Ni****]

This is a really good breakdown, thank you for sharing this!