How to communicate constructively

[jinxed]

@SerendipitousKeeper I fully agree with you, the other person matters and that is what shocks me the most, in this case the other person was continuously understanding, patient, open, responsive and the safest place I have ever known. This is what I mean, this need seems to be so ridiculously fundamental that it overrides everything.

But let's not get started on boundaries though.. I'm working on basic interaction skills at the moment, still in the baby-steps stage I'm afraid.  

Thanks for your message, no rambling detected and I very much appreciated your words!  

[pe****]

3 hours ago, petix said:

Have a look at the book “Attached”. By Amir Levine and Rachel S.F. Heller. You may have an “anxious” attachment style and it tends to work particularly badly if your romantic partner is/was an “evitative” one. Both sides should learn to converge to a “safe” style. These are deeply ingrained characteristics and we can’t really totally change them (the name style may sound like something we can just change as we wish, which it is not the case), but we can learn to improve. I hope this helps.

Apologies for wrong translation: Where I wrote “evitative”, please read “avoidant”

[jj****]

Our triggers are ultimately our own responsibility and we have to address them in therapy. Expecting a partner to walk on a tightrope sets up everyone for disappointment later.

It is not your partner’s responsibility to keep track of your triggers or the words you don’t like. You’ll have to find a way to cope with those things. The most reasonable thing you can ask of a partner is to not *** the knowledge of your sore points.

Having an anxious attachment style doesn’t mean love is impossible, it just means you have to kind of parent yourself in a way. And you have a ***ful lesson to carry with you as a motivator for continuing to do the work you need to do.

[si****]

I like approach life and interactions with others with;
"YOU'RE OK, I'M OK". We all want to end up with best relationships for ourselves. We are all working through our (own) life's journey. From a bird's eye view, how do find the right person to start working with? I always want that answer. But in our real lives, we have to interact with MANY before we "try " another person to develop an ongoing relationship with.

I didn't mean to give you specific solutions. Only I observed through your responses to others on different topics that you have a great awareness of yourself and wishing others well.

You WILL work through your interactions with developing relationships. I wish you well. BEST WISHES. HUGS

[Mr****]

So I don't know your exact circumstances but I don't think there is anything wrong with treating things as rules. Whether we like to admit it or not we all have rules for who, when, how much, of our time and attention we give others. It is your partner's choice whether that is something they can live with or not.

What is important is that you communicate clearly about your needs and your rules. So that might look something like. "I want you to know that I really struggle when it feels like there is a lack of transparency in a relationship. When (insert scenarios where you feel like transparency is lacking) type situations occur. I tend to react in these ways. I can recognize that some of these things aren't supportive of a healthy relationship and I plan to work on those. What would be really helpful in those situations is for you to listen and remind me that you care about me and not take the things I say personally. I really want a partner who is understanding and patient and who can support me in working to make our relationship better. If that's not your cup of tea no worries."

It takes a lot of work to better yourself. And you should be proud of how far you have come. Don't turn mountains into baby steps. Celebrate every tiny victory like you just cured cancer. (Insert really great inspirational quote that I forgot here). Keep up the good work

[Darling-Brat]

I haven't looked at the other comments, so bear with me if I repeat something.

First and foremost, no, giving someone a list of things that can set you off is not a list of rules they need to follow: they're an ask for accommodation.

It sounds like you're going through something a lot of neurodivergent people struggle with - whether you are one or not: living in a world where you're not the visible norm and people constantly gatekeep whether your needs are valid.

Here's the thing: you're not compatible with everyone, which also means that not everyone is for you. The people who are will be thankful to learn how you work and curious about what makes you tick.

That doesn't mean communication isn't a challenge. But people who care are also usually welcoming of a challenge. Challenge is something that brings us closer together if we attack it as a problem we can find ways to solve together.

Circling back to your list of triggers: someone may look at them and say: "I'm unable to accommodate these the way you want," and that's okay. If the conversation ends there, that's it. But it doesn't have to. Sometimes, you can work out new ways to accommodate those needs. Your needs are a reality. You can't shrink them to be more pleasant.

And you're already aware of and working on your own issues. I'm sure this isn't pleasant for you either. As long as you work on becoming a better person while the person you care about works with you on figuring out ways to accommodate you, it's okay to not be perfect. You can give and receive grace with the people where it clicks.

Genuinely, you deserve compassion, not as an excuse to hurt, but as a permission to be human and make mistakes and then make amends. Repair is key. And then accountability.

Good luck. I know how hard it is, but I believe.

[Mr****]

That you're asking at all shows your heart is in the right place.

Tl;dr: get you own boundaries and permeaations in order, balance your hopes with realistic understanding of people (including yourself), and assert your needs as hoc as thought without the unhelpful assumption *by you* that expressing your *desired state* is either a contract or a death sentence.

These things are practiceable, but require a "dynamic of yourself within yourself" first. Flatly: if you cannot simultaneously balance a personal-life expression of boundaries (what is not permitted regardless of how close anyone/anything is) and permeaations (what you allow to fast-pass to the depths of your very self regardless of boubdaries), you are not ready for any sort of dynamic or interpersonal relationship at all. I stand on that statement as the one absolute in the full relative field of interactions we call dynamics. You may still find one and be happy in it; but know that such outcomes are the domain of favorable winds of fortune more than genuineness of self.

You state that you have a high need for consistency, transparency, and reliability. That just translates to "be who you said you'll be, present the same way that you actually are, and try not to change too much." Fine. But humans are fallible and inconstant creatures: temper your hopes with reality and expand your reality with hope. You can express your desires for the *state and condition* of a person, but *that will never be enfor.ceable* because people ourselves are transient. Our mood and condition can change based on the spiciness of colognes / perfumes we encounter or foods we eat: your first submission must be to the inevitable transience of human beings. Get that part down and the rest falls into place.

You don't "make the desire for consistency, transparency, and reliability go away", you hope that the ideal exists but expect that it doesn't *and you stuff your disappointment when you encounter reality as it is*. That is first; that is foremost. From there, you assess your boundaries *but you also reassess you'd own contract*. Both happen simultaneously always: you don't second-guess your dynamic because something happened *to* you, you check in with your requirements as something *you maintain*. A breach is a breach, full stop. Discuss, then move forward, move out, or move on—but you *move*. You effect some action.

As to "when should I"—wrong question. Any consideration of things relative to *you* (what makes you *you* and what you *prefer* from others—"require" is too strong a word to guarantee) happens *with immediacy and urgency*. Delay in that is forbidden because the failure to convey information in intended-transparent relationships is almost universally unhelpful to you or anyone else.

That's it: nothing follows.

[jinxed]

8 hours ago, Darling-Brat said:

That doesn't mean communication isn't a challenge. But people who care are also usually welcoming of a challenge. Challenge is something that brings us closer together if we attack it as a problem we can find ways to solve together.

[...] Your needs are a reality. You can't shrink them to be more pleasant.

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts! 
When I read them, I felt so much hope! I mean, it takes a lot of mutual understanding to make any deeper connection work, regardless of the type of person you are, right? Sometimes because of stuff in our brains, sometimes because of outside circumstances. For example, if someone has a young child, then the other one will need to make allowances for that too and actually that would be a need that cannot as you so perfectly said it be shrunk at all. So everyone will have a need that is fundamental and solutions need to be found to still make it work. 
Thank you. Your words felt like honey! 

Edited May 24 by jinxed

[La****]

I'm a trauma survivor and it's taken 3 years to get my reactions and emotions under control with the help of many books, pod casts, meditation, therapy DBT training.

The DBT training was the most valuable part of my recovery. If you have any questions I'd love to help.

[an****]

Can you share with us some details about your reactions, triggers, and such? How was this relationship destroyed? A high level of consistency, transparency, and reliability is a bar, the standard, not the exception. Inability to deal with exceptions sounds like holding a boundary, this is hard limit language not a mental disorder. Clear scheduling is adult behavior not 'asking too much'. Communication is a non-negotiable not burden. I am making an assumption here. You had a little human or some other life change and developed normal boundaries and now it feels wrong because being a doormat has been consistent and normal for so long that wanting anything else feels like selfish or something that's not for you. Your post has a lot of very normal and decent ideas and wants, so unless you are randomly triggered and biting or beating up people, if you are just standing your ground, that is not weird or some disorder or something mythical. It's just normal and that might feel wrong. Are you biting people?

[jinxed]

@anotherusername First of all, thank you for making me laugh! 
Unfortunately, most of the answers to your questions are a bit too personal for a thread, so I can only answer the last one: For some years now only playfully. 
Your words made me think and of course you are right, communicating important needs is simply necessary. I'm understanding this slowly. If one can learn to voice them in a reasonable and preventative manner instead of during an outburst, it might even feel freeing to do it. But the first step seems to be accepting the necessity of stating what helps to build trust, and your post offers many convincing arguments, so thank you. 
 

[an****]

2 hours ago, jinxed said:

@anotherusername First of all, thank you for making me laugh! 
Unfortunately, most of the answers to your questions are a bit too personal for a thread, so I can only answer the last one: For some years now only playfully. 
Your words made me think and of course you are right, communicating important needs is simply necessary. I'm understanding this slowly. If one can learn to voice them in a reasonable and preventative manner instead of during an outburst, it might even feel freeing to do it. But the first step seems to be accepting the necessity of stating what helps to build trust, and your post offers many convincing arguments, so thank you. 
 

Please understand why you are reduced to outbursts. Think of energy in whatever temperature or terms are comfortable to you. Masculine/feminine, dominance/submission, hot/cold, etc. Know this truth, energy has to find it's opposite. You are listing all the clues to the answers you seek, while cryptic to us, you can see it, you just want validation without exposure. That's hard. Even a therapist will validate surface level if you don't challenge them to work for you not coddle. Your outbursts are not failure of control (actually contrary, it is control) they are failure of structure. You are recieving the wrong energy and having to break submission. Your reactions are fight because you are being attacked. Again, normal. Your profile says 100% submissive, yet you are finding yourself lashing out and not being able to submit fully (assumption). Don't forget that you can step out of the dynamic or role and be however masculine and assertive you need to be to agree and contract for structure and reevaluate from time to time. (same applies to family, friends, work, partners, etc). Then step back into submission and exist and let your leader lead. Subs are not voiceless, but having to break dynamic constantly will ruin your whole life, like slow decay. Your outbursts are not the problem they are the alarm. Don't ignore that.

[jinxed]

2 hours ago, anotherusername said:

 

Please understand why you are reduced to outbursts. Think of energy in whatever temperature or terms are comfortable to you. Masculine/feminine, dominance/submission, hot/cold, etc. Know this truth, energy has to find it's opposite. You are listing all the clues to the answers you seek, while cryptic to us, you can see it, you just want validation without exposure. That's hard. Even a therapist will validate surface level if you don't challenge them to work for you not coddle. Your outbursts are not failure of control (actually contrary, it is control) they are failure of structure. You are recieving the wrong energy and having to break submission. Your reactions are fight because you are being attacked. Again, normal. Your profile says 100% submissive, yet you are finding yourself lashing out and not being able to submit fully (assumption). Don't forget that you can step out of the dynamic or role and be however masculine and assertive you need to be to agree and contract for structure and reevaluate from time to time. (same applies to family, friends, work, partners, etc). Then step back into submission and exist and let your leader lead. Subs are not voiceless, but having to break dynamic constantly will ruin your whole life, like slow decay. Your outbursts are not the problem they are the alarm. Don't ignore that.

You assumed correctly, submitting fully is a struggle. And that might be the crux, the level of reliability needed to trust someone completely is just too high. I've always found that letting someone take over during sex is the easiest thing to do. Like many others here, I had unpleasant experiences because of it, but recklessness in physical contact always seemed to me to be a joke in comparison to emotional trust being broken. And to really, truly trust somebody to be there seems almost impossible, as a human being cannot act perfectly at all times. Therefore something as minor as a misunderstanding makes me question everything and that is not just receiving the wrong energy, but rather going into it with the wrong energy in the first place. Yes, I could go back to the sex thing, make my life a whole lot easier. But it just feels so hollow now. So I'll have to work more on myself and that is that. 

[an****]

7 hours ago, jinxed said:

You assumed correctly, submitting fully is a struggle. And that might be the crux, the level of reliability needed to trust someone completely is just too high. I've always found that letting someone take over during sex is the easiest thing to do. Like many others here, I had unpleasant experiences because of it, but recklessness in physical contact always seemed to me to be a joke in comparison to emotional trust being broken. And to really, truly trust somebody to be there seems almost impossible, as a human being cannot act perfectly at all times. Therefore something as minor as a misunderstanding makes me question everything and that is not just receiving the wrong energy, but rather going into it with the wrong energy in the first place. Yes, I could go back to the sex thing, make my life a whole lot easier. But it just feels so hollow now. So I'll have to work more on myself and that is that. 

You said, "The level of reliability needed to trust someone completely is just too high. I counter, "the cost of not being truly *** is dangerous". Too many people hold back thinking they are protecting themselves. Personally, I like long term relationships and have had successful relationships for 13, 2, 2, 3 years respectively. Always with forever as the goal. Heartbreak sucks, court sucks, but forever holding back some of the 100% means not living in the little puddles of "perfectly". Reality is, people get hit by cars they never saw. 20 year marriages are rife with cheating and deception. Physical trauma is more accepted because emotional trauma comes with too much truth. Fact: people leave because we aren't good enough. The key part, is that we weren't good enough for them at the specific moment, energy, and effort they wanted (not needed, we need very little). They also weren't good enough for us to (want to) adapt. I think you might have worked on yourself enough (personal, non-professional opinion), you seem pretty self aware, maybe it's time for higher standards (someone you can submit to fully). Or step out of your comfort zone and do something trust based that you can suck at. You are good at giving up control during sex, skip that (it feels hollow because it's fake 😅 you are still in control of giving up control). I am getting a perfection vibe from you and that is IMO what needs the work. Your pictures are curated, the room immaculate, your physical appearance is stunning, you are well written. Yet you doubt yourself harshly. Assumption: Failure wasn't allowed for little Jinx. Go fail now. Do hard stuff you suck at. Seek failures, lots of failures. Accepting that failure (and correction) doesn't make you a failure might be worth researching. 'Minor misunderstanding' sounds like "doesn't take feedback well" (unless submitting to an identified superior, i.e. work, because you sound intelligent so I assume you navigate well IRL). Are you navigating work/life well in highly structured areas? How do you take criticism from a supervisor, if you have one?

[jinxed]

You have a point there. If I could have allowed myself to not be seen as being perfectly fine and put-together and had opened up about my imperfect feelings, then the excessive energy that led to my explosion wouldn't have accumulated in the first place. 
Taking feedback isn't the issue, giving it is. 

"Puddles of 'perfectly' " - that's just beautiful! 

[mr****]

Saturday at 09:49 AM, jinxed said:

I'm not sure to be honest. But I don't think this is a problem that affects only me. So perhaps I should rephrase my question. Is there a way to communicate such fundamental needs, no matter what they are exactly, that isn't demanding or ultimatum-like?

 

Yes their is and I think it’s all about timing read the room on when they are most receptive and go about it in a give and take method and just. Use good communication just make sure you cover their needs too

[mr****]

Saturday at 10:05 AM, BraggiR said:

Yes, I think there is in terms of assertiveness.

1) Let them go first. Get them to express their needs and their boundaries. We all have them. I think a person would be a lot more receptive to talking about your needs if you had just fully explored theirs.

2) Go gradually. I’m just at the very beginning of another new relationship (Whoo hoo). I’m going at their pace, letting them move things along at a level they are comfortable with.

3) Give and take conversations. Where you each take a particular boundary and discuss it.

4) Homework. This was my introduction to BDSM with the woman who is now my longest running relationship in our polycule. She gave me a homework sheet to fill in which had EVERYTHING on it. This works for her as she’s very autistic. After I had filled out my homework she and discussed it she showed me hers. As she’s an abusive survivor her sheet is littered with things we cannot do, and I know exactly why. Very clear, useful communication.

6) Pick the best moment to discuss. You’ll know in your gut.

Hope some of that helps.

Yes well said I used this method tonight it works perfect everyone has needs and boundaries just get them to talk about theirs as well then it’s a discussion and not demanding ultimatums

[Hypnocurious]

The more I follow these forums the more I realize there are a lot of people with issues they need / want help with. Everything that has been said here is true and honest. You can have to life you want. You can find the help you need. You are enough. Keep striving for that puddle of perfection and you will improve every day. Little by little. Until one day when you look back you will see how far you have come.

[mr****]

Saturday at 02:18 PM, SerendipitousKeeper said:

This is likely going to be one of the most unhelpful replies you’ll get and I apologise for that but sometimes it is also about the other person and their responsiveness/ability to make you feel safe enough to explain what you need and also their ability to take it on board and adapt.

I am not saying it is solely about the other person though.

I struggle with similar things to what you appear to be talking about. I’ve (over)reacted and escalated in situations in the past and it has cost me dearly.

Parts of me shut down, and are still shut down, because I was/am too much/not enough etc, etc.

I stopped trying to explain my needs and simply tried to please others enough that they’d give me what I (thought I) needed without me having to actually ask or explain myself to them - unsurprisingly that didn’t work.

I have, fortunately, met a wonderful man who, much to my disgust, is teaching me to talk and use my words. I hate it with a passion because it terrifies me every time I express a need or an emotion. However, every time, without fail he responds consistently, with empathy and a genuine desire to further understand me and how he can support me. Nothing seems to phase him and he always has a calm control. I am learning, slowly, that opening up and being honest about what I need is actually improving not only our relationship but also thoughts and feelings I believed about myself for so long.

I empathise with your worries about “these are the rules…” but they aren’t your rules, they’re your needs for what makes you be able to be safe enough to open up. Would thinking of them as boundaries change your view point at all?

Sorry for the ramble. I hope you get some great advice and answers. 

Yes sharing deep conversations about things that make us feel exposed or *** will always bring a relationship closer I just had an open conversation with a new partner too

[se****]

I would eat and suck ur pussy until you can't stand it anymore and you start begging for me to fuck you then I don't stop until you are ready and filling good it's all about making you cum till you feel good

[mr****]

This is a really good thread with a lot of good advice imo. I feel like I learned stuff about myself I wasn’t aware of. Some of you talked about bpd adhd so I’m both. And I have never been able to tolerate lack of transparency or people not doing what they say and then people who can’t or won’t used good communication check my profile my only limit is bad communication . I have never had patience for it. And I always felt like these things are just too simple to provide that theirs no excuse or reason that’s valid. Or theirs a reason they won’t give transparency ie: shady people up to no goodAnd have never thought it could be anything else but I’m like you self aware and always growing searching for knowledge soo I’m gonna look into that see if I find any answers.

[se****]

So now what

[Darling-Brat]

May 24, jinxed said:

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts! 
When I read them, I felt so much hope! I mean, it takes a lot of mutual understanding to make any deeper connection work, regardless of the type of person you are, right? Sometimes because of stuff in our brains, sometimes because of outside circumstances. For example, if someone has a young child, then the other one will need to make allowances for that too and actually that would be a need that cannot as you so perfectly said it be shrunk at all. So everyone will have a need that is fundamental and solutions need to be found to still make it work. 
Thank you. Your words felt like honey! 

If you ever want or need to talk about it with someone, my DMs are open.

It honestly seems like you have a pretty good grasp on yourself and what you need to work with from reading your comments, and I'm thinking about whether part of your reactivity comes from feeling like you have to constantly suppress yourself and your needs. I'm saying that because that happened to me. When you put more pressure on yourself to not react instead of finding healthy ways to react and being with someone you feel will respond compassionately to you expressing your needs, at some point, of course the dam will burst.

This might not be the issue, you know better than I do. But if it is, stepping up for yourself and reminding yourself that you're allowed to listen to your own intuition is a really valuable first step.

[Kn****]

Trauma is real and much of what you want are not very big asks in my book. The right person will be patient , will learn you, your boundaries and help you grow, when you want, at your own pace.