How do you *** your slave/sub?

[Ace-6728]

I just recently got a girl who wants to be my slave and a part of it is choking her, im used to being a daddy but i actually dont know the correct way, i guess, to *** her into submission. I was wondering if i could get some help finding out what to do or at least where to look?

[Deleted Member]

A girl or a woman? Also a slave? Or more like a sub.
Daddy type also *** their babygirls, they are not all nice a sweet playtimes.
If you don’t really know I would suggest reading about it rather than ask random people on here. Or just don’t do it as it’s a risky kind of practice.
Is your sub healthy? Have you asked her if she’s got any health issues like asthma?
Try it on yourself to feel the hands pressure and how long before you release it. Or let her guide your hand with hers to execute the pressure then she will release and let you finish the job.
Stopping *** supply could cause to some people *** clot which result A&E ending.

[TheBookCollector]

Its not necessarily about choaking her into submission,.choaking can create a euphoric experience as you reduce the oxygen and *** floe to the brain.

I would also question why you are considering someone who is out side your current risk profile. Dies she know that its not in your skill set?

Breath play, especially choaking is dangerous and can go wrong for experienced people let alone those new to it.

Its easy to damage the wind pipe and you may also fracture the hyoid bone.

I would also suggest learning basic CPR as you may need it if play goes very wrong.

I personally would attend a class on the subject, or speak to someone in person at a local munch or event who is experienced in choaking.

[Deleted Member]

Personally I’d say the best person to ask is her! I’ve found everyones kinks to be pretty individual tbh, you could talk to 20 ppl who enjoy being ***d in different ways. The safety issues TheBookCollector has mentioned are very real issues though and speaking to Dom’s who use choking in their techniques might help too.

[Nylon-Nellie]

Breath play isn't my kink, but please listen to the advice and guidance given.

[AndreMM]

ask HER. there's 2 types of ***s and i've met girls who enjoy one over the other.

you can either block her airway  or her *** supply. with both you have to be SAFE. 

she'll pass out way faster with the *** one so take care, and if she does, release imidiatly. even though it can take up to 3 minutes to cause real damage, there's no need for it. 
the air *** means she'll be wake for way longer, but there's a risk of damaging her air aways, don't over strengten it.

 

just keep reading her signs as you do with everything else

[ey****]

yeah

don't do the *** trick unless someone extremely trust worthy and experienced has shown you first and talked you through a lot of the safety. I've seen people literally pass out where they were sat... or stood.  Which if it catches you by surprise you might not be able to stop them cracking their skull on the way down.

Start simple if you're going to do this. Rather than actively *** (i.e. hands around neck) start with other forms of simpler breath play - for example placing hands over mouth and nose.  Have her keep here eyes open, watch her eyes.  Make it so she is not restrained or tied and can move your hands if needs be.  Count in your head, we are literally talking 10 seconds if new to this, and that is at a max. See how she feels as you move your hand.

Remember all breath play is rack and high risk.  Certainly consider workshops to help get the most from it. 

[Cu****]

Have the local ambulance or paramedic parked outside...yes, it's that serious!!

[Deleted Member]

Dude, as a long time martial artist I can tell you, choking someone out can go really wrong even if they’re fighting it with neck muscles and are mentally prepared.


If she wants you to *** her to asphyxiation or the *** supply *** I would sit her down and discuss safety and boundaries before anything else. Good luck explaining to the police that she consented to the choking if it goes wrong, and good luck living with it.


When we train in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu almost all ***s are *** ***s and you rarely see anyone go *** because we ALWAYS tap out first. We’re trained to. One of the earliest things you’re taught is how to *** someone safely and the dangers of getting it wrong and when in doubt release the *** because it’s never worth the risk. If this slave of yours isn’t ok with that I’d walk away personally.

[BigcityDom]

Leave well alone.! It'll end in tears. Not even Dr's can tell when someone will pass out and then it's lack of oxygen and potential brain damage. Train your sub slave in anal play, cock worship and cane..... All you need😂. That's a joke by the way but breath play isn't. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Cu****]

Ok, let's stop the prevaricating and dodging the seriousness of this activity.

Some respondents,who know what they're talking about, have identified the life-threatening seriousness of choking and rough sex, and given us their input. There is a legal case of *** from this procedure.

Since the British backpacker Grace Millane *** trial in New Zealand last year (July 2020), where her sociopath date used "rough sex" as his defence for her ***, to absolve himself from responsibility, the UK government reacted and voted to ban such a defence excuse. 

MPs in the UK  backed an amendment to the Domestic *** Bill, which rules out "consent for sexual gratification" as a defence for causing serious harm.

This surely sends alarm bells ringing through the bdsm community in this Country, but quite honestly there's not been a chorus of support to ban the procedure. You still see females advertising in their profiles, that they have a desire to be ***d and to experience rough sex. So they, unwittingly, give the green light to want the experience. Any dominant should now be aware that this is illegal under UK law. And still nobody says anything here, nor on other major bdsm websites. 

For everyone's safety, sub and dom alike, the opportunity to advertise this scene should be removed. I appreciate that that doesn't stop anyone from writing or speaking about it, but it removes the initial "appeal".

Really, this is part of our education. The subject should be highlighted in munches up and down the Country and on the online munch, operated by this site. The consequences of not knowing the outcome of one's actions, is absolutely no excuse anymore. Unless you like the prospect of being caged up for 17 years, at Her Majesty's pleasure.

[ey****]

I do think, a little

A lot of people do really enjoy breath play.  In many forms.

I think it is serious and one where, yes you can kill your partner and this would be -at best - manslaughter in the UK

But. Many people do it. And will do it.

I think let's not sugarcoat the ultimate danger.  But, like, if folk are going to do it to try to put out information that helps people do it safely and get enjoyment from it.

Remember of course breath play includes, but is not limited to

choking

*** choking

gas masks (some other masks also limit breathing)

rebreather bags

face sitting

smothering (hands/gloves/cloth/etc)

foot gagging

cock gagging (facefucking can also incorporate breath play)

Drowning/waterplay

Christ - someone the other week wrapped her hair around my throat

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Now, as an also... breath play isn't the only kink to carry risk - and while many the risk is unlikely to be death

I mean, ropes are very popular - any form of rigging/suspension has a severe risk.. 

[TheBookCollector]

2 hours ago, CumbriaLeather said:

Ok, let's stop the prevaricating and dodging the seriousness of this activity.

Some respondents,who know what they're talking about, have identified the life-threatening seriousness of choking and rough sex, and given us their input. There is a legal case of *** from this procedure.

Since the British backpacker Grace Millane *** trial in New Zealand last year (July 2020), where her sociopath date used "rough sex" as his defence for her ***, to absolve himself from responsibility, the UK government reacted and voted to ban such a defence excuse. 

MPs in the UK  backed an amendment to the Domestic *** Bill, which rules out "consent for sexual gratification" as a defence for causing serious harm.

This surely sends alarm bells ringing through the bdsm community in this Country, but quite honestly there's not been a chorus of support to ban the procedure. You still see females advertising in their profiles, that they have a desire to be ***d and to experience rough sex. So they, unwittingly, give the green light to want the experience. Any dominant should now be aware that this is illegal under UK law. And still nobody says anything here, nor on other major bdsm websites. 

For everyone's safety, sub and dom alike, the opportunity to advertise this scene should be removed. I appreciate that that doesn't stop anyone from writing or speaking about it, but it removes the initial "appeal".

Really, this is part of our education. The subject should be highlighted in munches up and down the Country and on the online munch, operated by this site. The consequences of not knowing the outcome of one's actions, is absolutely no excuse anymore. Unless you like the prospect of being caged up for 17 years, at Her Majesty's pleasure.

Under recent UK laws, especially the domestic *** bill 99% of what we do in BDSM is illegal even between consenting adults.

@eyemblacksheep, i dont think people.realise just how dangerous a lot of the things we.do are dengerous, even caning and paddling can have severe consequences, especially if used incorrectly around the kidneys and liver.

Rope, is very dangerous especially in suspensions with permanent nerve damage being a realistic side effect, even more so if it involves neck rope.

Estim if applied across the heart can lead to a heart attack.

[ey****]

Absolutely.  Strike someone really hard in the kidney with a cane and you can do serious damage.   I can tell a story also of a guy who took ***killers (thins the ***) before a ballbusting session who then ended up in hospital because there was rupture to the testicle which bled... and wouldn't stop bleeding.... and as well as everything else had to go to A+E to explain exactly what had happened.

I think people should be aware that the majority of activities we do in kink can have serious consequences - but this doesn't mean we should avoid all of them.  Just try to share information on how to do them safely.  Which could be "for the love of fuck go to a workshop at least"

It's a crying shame Miss Tilly is no longer (to my knowledge?) on this site - she ran an amazing breath play workshop with her sub at her dungeon which was really helpful.  Her sub is massively into breath play and so the two explore it together being aware of the risks.

[Cu****]

And you can suggest that people go to a munch, as much as you like. Even if they went, no one knows how much notice was taken of available information. What medical qualification does anyone in a munch have, to suggest that stopping someone's *** supply to their brain is ok? You are laughing through the back of your head.

Attending such gatherings is pretty difficult for many who don't wish to be identified, or can't get to one because of distance, timings, apathy and inconvenience. If warnings arent posted on video porn sites, or some other mass communicator site like you tube, you might just as well spit into the wind. As in every helpful, informing, educating situation, where you want people to be well versed in safety, and to think about risk assessment before embarking on such perilous activities, the people you really want to target, won't read and won't find the information, and go blindly on being dangerous. They don't see the point, it's spoiling their enjoyment, their desire to seek out prey to wing it. Far more exciting. Self centred gratification. The same effect as when a normally decent, law abiding guy climbs onto his super fast motorbike on a Sunday or Wednesday evening. When you've got the freedom to go fast, and you've a couple of mates riding too, you're spurred on, get the adrenalin surging through your system, and then plaster yourself over a stone wall because you couldn't take a corner, or hit unsuspecting oncoming vehicles. They know the rules, they know the codes of safety, they have a family, and responsibilities, they were members of a bikers club. But, what sparked a psycho moment to be rash, and open up the throttle, just a little bit more, and just push it that little bit more and...catastrophe! The moment of selfishness, leaves a massive trail of destruction. Those left behind can't understand the mentality that suddenly ended everything. The same with Grace Millane.

We only need one occurence of such a nightmare choking to go wrong, in the UK and the media will start a witchhunt, and do undercover surveillance in the munches and clubs and expose everyone as unbalanced psychopaths, calling us all morally depraved members of society. Social media will do the same, and go further with bricks hurled through windows. Sex offenders will look like church goers, in comparison. If you don't think that that can happen, then come to sunny Cumbria and find out what happened when a local journalist snooped in a munch being held in a local pub. He wrote many untruths, but the population soaked it up and the bdsm fraternity basically went into hiding.

The Domestic *** Act 2021 includes making non-fatal strangulation a specific criminal offence, punishable by up to five years in prison. The act typically involves an ***r strangling or intentionally affecting their victim’s breathing in an attempt to control or intimidate them. This follows concerns that perpetrators were avoiding punishment, as the practice can often leave no visible ***, making it harder to prosecute under existing offences such as Actual Bodily Harm (ABH). I know a female who suffered this domestically.

No one knows if a sub will go to the police, after having talked with her friends about what she experienced, particularly if it frightened her. Courts are  providing screens to protect the identity of victims, along with video links and reducing the opportunity for cross examining and taking letters from doctors and employers, as evidence of such occurences. This suggests that prosecution is going to be easier.

Now tell me that we still should allow choking, or breath play, with the above penalties for conviction. It's law.

If we were all dealing with the same model of human being, in that every human had exactly the same wiring, locations of *** vessels, *** pressure, brain function, muscle tone, bone structure, cartilage construction...like they were all fridges or cookers...then you could say that you would know how much pressure to apply and exactly where and for how long, in order to be safe. But we're not.

Why do we have physiologists; professionals to whom we turn when we need physical treatment for our bodies? How many years of deep research, studying, actual experience with hundreds of patients does it take to have a good grasp and understanding of the science of the human body, and to be recognised by professional bodies to be allowed to work in such areas of health care? One mistake and you're struck off! Who are we to cause potential devastation to someone, based on very little knowledge and a whim????? Hands up all those doms/ dommes with a medical degree.

I read and read and read the pleas for aftercare, from subs. Well, how about pre-care? How can you all be so proud of yourselves that you ***d someone, and you gave them after care???? It's an absolute joke and total hypocrisy, deceitful and phoney. "I took you to the edge of your normal existence. One false move and you'd be in a wheelchair, or be like a vegetable. But hey...I gave you after care. Aren't you impressed?"

I make no apology for writing so much. If you got to the end, thank you for reading. 

[ey****]

so a lot to digest - but to repeat something that has been said above

pretty much NOTHING in kink is safe.  NOTHING. 

And of course, yes, Some carries greater risk than others and for some that is the appeal.

So, if people are going to do it then discussions are needed to try to minimise the risk. Discussions like this.  And risk is of course two ways, because, rightfully nobody wants to cause a submissive a bad experience let alone one that ends in *** to whatever degree.

Incidentally... 

There HAVE been cases of choking gone wrong, BDSM gone wrong, so on and so forth.  which have ended in death and have hit the papers - and no, there hasn't been a witchhunt. There are assorted rules of what the press can and cannot report on - but also, fetish clubs generally tend to have their own rules on play etc to protect them.   Never mind undercover officers, there's dungeon monitors who will intervene in scenes.

Just for comparison - I'm going to cherry pick from your fetish list

Age Play - a lot of people judge this as being akin to peadophilia

Anal Beads - carries risk of rupturing the anus, or getting stuck

Anal plugs - ditto

*** Play - risks causing lasting trauma or PTSD

Breath Play - you actually have breath play listed as an interest on your profile while telling people here not to do it?!

Restraints - risk cutting off *** and circulation, similar risk to a *** *** you also warn against

Fisting - risk of rupture to anus

Genital *** - lasting damage or internal bleeding

Wax - risk of 1st and 2nd degree burns

Whips - mishits can cause serious and severe damage. Even accurate hits can break the skin and risk infection

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And for all of the above I won't say "don't do it" but that if folk are doing it they have to understand the risks and - as is the purpose of this thread - to share information on mitigating risks.

[Cu****]

Thank you. I've now removed the breath play as a way of showing how I feel. 

The whole purpose of making quite an impassioned number of posts, is from the way that law makers in the UK have reacted to the case in New Zealand. You'll have read that the non-fatal suffocation...you know, the victim is still alive after the event...has now a prison term of 5 years if convicted. The ease with which a prosecutor can achieve such a conviction should be very much noticed, because as mentioned earlier, no one knows how a sub feels about what she's been through, apart from her, herself, or him if a male sub. To now realise that what she's been through is punishable, she has every right to go to the police, and the trauma of doing so is less onerous than in a case of assault. Before anyone says words to the effect of, "Well it's her word against mine, " it's not.That's the very excuse that this legislation is trying to squash. The defence ability to say that the victim consented to rough sex, isn't going to work anymore. The victim can have medics and employers on side to give opinions on how the victim has suffered, as a result of their experience, and boy, could they suffer. You know, suffered mentally, with low self esteem as a result of exposure to some traumatic experience...near death.

How many other examples should I think of before you take this seriously? And yet you smokescreen by pointing out that "pretty much NOTHING in kink is safe", instead of appreciating the rough justice that women have endured for so long, and saying that because of a potentially easy conviction, the act of choking and breath play should be given a huge amount of attention. But it isn't. The apathy is the acceptance on the unacceptable.

Many people here look to see how the regulars or long serving, contributing members react to controversial matters. We appear to now live in a world of "the influencers". We don't need to think for ourselves, "Let's see what xyz says about this, then we'll do the same. Problem solved, and no harm done." Did they have appropriate qualifications to accurately make convincing statements?

The cold, medical realities of breath play are that there's NO way of safely suffocating or strangling someone. The brain and the heart need this stuff called oxygen. Starve them of this and they're dead, in a very short space of time. A cardiac arrest...a heart attack...will quickly follow and there's no way of anyone knowing when that will happen. If they arrest, there's an extremely small chance that even with CPR, you might revive them. And, I know that there's people here who say they don't take their sub up to the point of ***ness. Clever people. You can tell that by the cardiac equipment and oximeter that they're connected to, can you?

It's very difficult to know when someone becomes ***. ***ness is a symptom, not a cause and can have many reasons for occurring. No one in the medical world who might have bdsm sympathies, has come up with a safe way to breath play. These are people who have spent years learning and understanding about how the body works. There is no safe way of breath play without putting your sub in imminent danger of dying. You want that on your conscience for the rest of your life? And after a prison sentence? Or be responsible for irreversible brain damage? It takes less than one minute to start causing problems.

 When the heart gets low on oxygen, it starts to fire off "extra" pacemaker sites. These usually appear in the ventricles and are called premature ventricular contractions; PVC's. If a PVC happens to fire off during the electrical repolarization phase of cardiac contraction (the dreaded "PVC on T" phenomenon, also sometimes called "R on T") it can kick the heart over into ventricular fibrillation which is a form of cardiac arrest. The lower the heart gets on oxygen, the more PVC's it generates, and the more *** to their effect it becomes. Hypoxia, a below normal level of oxygen in your ***, increases both the probability of a PVC-on-T occurring and of its causing a cardiac arrest.

 I'm fully aware of the other dangers in some aspects of bdsm, and these could, in their own right, also lead to prosecution under Actual Bodily Harm and doesn't need to be serious, but more significant than a push or a shove and includes things like bruises, scratching and bite marks, and, worryingly, there doesn't need to be an intent to cause *** to actually commit Actual Bodily Harm. If you were to go to similar websites as this one, and look at some of the bruising and scratching on different parts of the anatomy, the "victim" has every right to bring a case of ABH.

You say that we should all be educated about the subject. Where is this highlighted on this website? Is there a section called bdsm and the law? I appreciate that as the site has grown, it has a more global presence and therefore sections would have to focus on "local" laws and restrictions. But not knowing is not an excuse. Similarly, knowing something and doing nothing about it is not an option. 

[ey****]

There's a lot where - like... 

No, I agree with you.

And something that Dominants and submissives alike should be aware of before entering any activity together. 

That some activities can cause death, permanent damage or serious damage.  And that as well as any legal ramifications there is also what is on your conscience.

And that, yes, you can cane someone (for example) leave a mark and if they go to the police that is evidence of ABH.  So, in this case the mitigation to consider is "will they take these marks to the police?" which sounds stupid but vetting both partners and situations is a two-way thing.

Because of this, all form of breath play may be outside someone's risk profile.   And as well as kink - this also rules out skydiving and swimming.  Because swimming and holding breath underwater carries the same risks.  Ditto for wrestling.

--

Whether we like it or not, choking during sex is extremely popular.  Even outside of kink. 

So I would say, for example, that yes people need to know this carries a danger of death and that if their partner dies they will be prosecuted.

But also that if people are going to do it, how to mitigate the risk.  Because they're going to do it anyway.

--

It's fine for breath play to be outside of your risk profile.  Of course.

But it's within other people's and trying to police what other people do in kink, when something like facesitting is no more illegal than flogging, doesn't actually help people. 

Breath play is in my risk profile.  But not with just anyone. And I mean that either side of play.  But I am aware of the risks.

[Cu****]

Thank you for your considered responses. I'm most grateful. People within our community need to not only be aware that the act of non-fatal strangulation is now a criminal offence, both in the UK and 30 states of USA, but if they go on to do it, they could cause ***ness within 10 seconds and that they could well, by their action, have caused enough damage to the brain to manifest potential strokes  and heart failure, days or even weeks after the event. No outward signs will show what has happened, apart from possible groups of tiny red spots which indicate bleeding under the skin. The walls of veins or arteries could be crushed/damaged during the act, which would produce *** clotting. These detach and circulate in the *** stream and are the harbingers of cerebral and heart damage.

Is this outcome acceptable from two people agreeing to choking? Psychologically, the strangled individual suffers trauma, anxiety, memory loss, emotional stress, PTSD for very good reason, sleeplessness and when they do manage to sleep, they often suffer nightmares.

Edging is something that some bdsm people talk about experiencing, and pushing limits occurs occasionally. I don't think that edging on the edge of death is acceptable.

This thread is so far down the news feed now, that it's going to be lost. What can be done and where, to bring this subject into the glaring spotlights that it deserves?

[TheBookCollector]

Just to add to this, people who are considering choaking/strangulation should read up on the case od Sophie.Moss.and Sam Pybus to understand the dangers and consequences of such action.

While Pybus got 4 years, the sentance is being reviewed and may increase.

[Taramafor]

I've always thought about a leash around the neck being slowly tugged at (and loosened).

Whatever method you go with just be sure to time it. I like to get people to hold their breath as long as they can think. Even online. Just to see if they'll resist the urge to breath the moment they feel/think they need too. Some last longer then others. Those are the ones that actually try.

There's a few factors at play. How much oxygen is already in the body (it's not the same as drowning), how long you're holding your breath for. How healthy/unhealthy your lungs are. Which is going to factor in age. It all has to be taken into account.