Can science help?

[charlias]

Can science help?
So I've been reading forum posts for a while and I've noticed a common post. I.e men having trouble meeting people/messaging people. So can science help?...

Well...

No.

But! Looking at the data might stiffen the resolve... That, or induce an existential crisis...

So! :)

First off, we need some data points. I've been keeping a tally of new members and their gender for the last week. And, well, the numbers speak for themselves:

Males: 417
Females: 80
Trans: 5
Couples: 18
Non binary: 3

As they are now, they are clearly stacked against males at a smidge over a 1-5 ratio. But its not over yet. From these numbers you need to remove: the people that don't match in: sexual orientation, kink preference, personal tastes and any other factors that may disqualify a potential partner. So it "may" be as little as 1-15. Now i don't have data on the Dom to sub ratio but it seems (for females) that the majority are submissive. So if you're a strait submissive male, you're playing a numbers game, and its more than likely going to take you a while to find someone compatible.
If you're a strait guy looking for a domme trans... Well... I wish the best of luck to you.

The next thing to consider is biological evolution. Humans are biologically monogamous. We know this from: testicle size, females having a blind ovulation, sex being enjoyable and the time it takes to raise a child. Because of these facts, there are many reasons why a woman are, and should be selective when choosing a partner.
All through the natural world, and in our society, it is for the largest part, females who select the males they wish to mate/pair up with. This selection happens in many ways in nature, but seen as with this app, the first contact is visual, for this instance let's use the birds of paradise and an example. Through beautiful plumage, song, gesture and fastidious cleaning of his display arena, the male tries to win over a females. And in this task he is tireless. Let me ask you: What are you doing to preen your plumage? And what songs are you singing when a female turns up?
From the women I've talked to on this site, some of the openers that they're subject to, are genuinely shocking, and are in no short supply. One of them, that is an apparent favorite is "hello cumslut" ... ??? ... Nothing more. Just that. (Wtff???) Would you ever dare to say that to someone's face?
Ask yourself: if you had an endless stream of sexual offers, would you not become extremely picky? And if you were subject to insults and ***, would you not look for red flags and sift out any that cropped up?

The last thing i want to mention is the size of the kink community. Compared to vanilla sites/apps, we have a much smaller population of people to choose from. So the population spread of members is thinner and further between. Your doorstep probably won't hold your perfect match. So you will have to look further afield.

So in conclusion: you have a mass of males vying for the attention of a few women, who are spoiled for choice and that are being hounded daily.

So what to do?

You need to stand out as being worthy of their time. Weather you're a Dom or sub, you need to display why you should be chosen. What's in your bio? Is it just kinks? Is that all you are? Is your bio honest? And when it comes to messaging, if you're leading with unsolicited sexual advances, its just not going to work. If you're at the bottom of a mountain, getting your d#ck out isn't going to get you to the top. You're just gonna get frostbite.

So to all the struggling fellas out there, i say: don't loose hope. The data has spoken, and declared a challenge ahead. So bide your time, preen, sing and clear the the filth from your bower. That way you'll be ready when a female comes along.

[ey****]

I agree with your conclusion in the sense of - yep, don't lose hope. But, stand up. Stand out.

 

Some of the stats I think there always needs to be a bigger picture.   While it can be disheartening - it's more likely that the new influx of guys will include the curious and those who want instant result who of course shouldn't be counted towards any total.  But then I also guess in the new women sign up how many are scams are bots (did these new sign ups still have their profile a week later? A sign they're less likely to be a scam)

But yeah, absolutely.  I know a lot of men in particularly gloss over the "awful messages women get" threads - but there's lessons within there on how low the bar sometimes is.  

[Mi****]

Love this. Respect and a bit of integrity goes a long way with me. That’s why I put my rant up the other day😆

[Du****]

I do actually ❤️ you a lil bit ☺️ Shake that tail feather baby!! xx

[Deleted Member]

I like your science. 

My experience could have saved you a week of collecting numbers though. (insert cheeky lol wink here).

And that's my point. How on earth do you stand out in an ocean of men where the good ones are invisible to the naked eye? 

We write a bunch of words, with no facial expressions, no tone of voice, no body language, nothing. Just words. Men have to literally be a writer in the premier League, which is still highly likely to be ignored because they'd look way too clever or something. Its just so impersonal and exhausting for women to take much notice of because they get so much and can afford to be choosy. Good! 

So I rarely ever bother. If I do it's because I've seen some kind of general vanilla interest in something they've written publicly or in their profile. Commonly known as chit chat.

That's my science song 😌

[Du****]

34 minutes ago, Axlsub said:

I like your science. 

My experience could have saved you a week of collecting numbers though. (insert cheeky lol wink here).

And that's my point. How on earth do you stand out in an ocean of men where the good ones are invisible to the naked eye? 

We write a bunch of words, with no facial expressions, no tone of voice, no body language, nothing. Just words. Men have to literally be a writer in the premier League, which is still highly likely to be ignored because they'd look way too clever or something. Its just so impersonal and exhausting for women to take much notice of because they get so much and can afford to be choosy. Good! 

So I rarely ever bother. If I do it's because I've seen some kind of general vanilla interest in something they've written publicly or in their profile. Commonly known as chit chat.

That's my science song 😌

On the contrary: it’s easy to stand out. Have good manners. Don’t be crass. Take care over your profile and demonstrate you’ve read hers. Considering how easy it is, it’s surprising so few men can manage it ☺️

[Deleted Member]

Not sure your science is all correct bud. Humans are certainly not biologically monogamous in the technical sense - i.e. all members of the species mate for life. But otherwise, great points all around - dudes need to stop playing themselves.

[Deleted Member]

I think the blind PM is a hard sell. At this point I don't know you from Adam and I'm not really on the hunt anyway. I spend a lot of time in the Lobby and while experiences in there can be ... varied, it gives you the chance to just chat in a casual environment. Ppl get a feel for you and then, if you are interested and get into private chat, you're not just a random person. You're someone they already like and they're disposed to want to keep chatting with you.

I really do like the dick out frostbite analogy. It is applicable in the Lobby too.

[Deleted Member]

7 hours ago, DuchessFeuille said:

On the contrary: it’s easy to stand out. Have good manners. Don’t be crass. Take care over your profile and demonstrate you’ve read hers. Considering how easy it is, it’s surprising so few men can manage it ☺️

Its really not easy. Even being polite, taking care on your profile, showing hers has been read, still doesn't have any more impact than one line crass messages. Saying that, I don't expect a reply, I'm not entitled to a reply. It takes a while to get used to that and learn to just cross your fingers. Add into that the practicality of distance, age, interests etc. This is why I don't bother unless I find some general chit chat to open up with. 

[qu****]

One of the problems, and perhaps the main one is choice, you join a site with a fixed idea of what you're looking for, only to be confronted with a wide variety of choice, not necessarily a bad thing, but it can confuse you, and instead of the blue eyed blonde, size 10 figure, now you're not sure, in real life this fixed ideal may work to an extent, but online realizations make you think more about what you're really looking for, the answer, just relax, be yourself, use forums and chat, and open your mind you may just surprise yourself.

[Du****]

2 hours ago, Axlsub said:

Its really not easy. Even being polite, taking care on your profile, showing hers has been read, still doesn't have any more impact than one line crass messages. Saying that, I don't expect a reply, I'm not entitled to a reply. It takes a while to get used to that and learn to just cross your fingers. Add into that the practicality of distance, age, interests etc. This is why I don't bother unless I find some general chit chat to open up with. 

I didn’t say it would *work*. I said it would make you stand out. The latter is guaranteed if you do as suggested. The former is less certain for all sorts of reasons which are not in the sender’s control.

[ey****]

I think what is important is to differentiate the difference between "standing out" and "sure fire results" - a big difference is the latter doesn't exist.  Because you can't control others responses.

Standing out of course at least puts a more pleasant experience of you in people's heads and sometimes they might see you write on a forum or in chat and it's "oh, that's the guy that sent the good message" and might even prompt to a reply or to act more favourable.  

Mind, becoming too well known can both be a blessing and a curse. Ha. 

[charlias]

9 hours ago, br0kenFree said:

Not sure your science is all correct bud. Humans are certainly not biologically monogamous in the technical sense - i.e. all members of the species mate for life. But otherwise, great points all around - dudes need to stop playing themselves.

We are. We can choose not to be but biologically we are. With testicle size non monogamous species have huge nads as a kind of flush out the guy before, and with a females blind ovulation there's no way to tell if a woman is in estrus. mix that with sex being enjoyable and you find, to be successful in reproducing (without working out the few days of the month a woman is fertile) is to pair up and have a lot of sex, then stay together till the child is grown. Its not to say that you can't be ethically non monogamous. Its just a biological predisposition.

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, DuchessFeuille said:

I didn’t say it would *work*. I said it would make you stand out. The latter is guaranteed if you do as suggested. The former is less certain for all sorts of reasons which are not in the sender’s control.

Its not guaranteed to make men stand out though. If it does, there's no acknowledgement. They still get ignored more often than not. The best they get is a "thanks but you're not my type". 

I'm not complaining here. I'm giving my experience of this type of cold calling response. Women ARE bombarded by messages. It takes a big effort on their behalf to read a pick out a message for a reply. I get it. Most men don't, hence the short, crass, c&p messages. It is a numbers game for men as per the stats in this science talk. 

[charlias]

One thing I will add, that would make it much easier. if everyone had actually written a bio and was honest in it (fat chance, I know). Blind messaging silly hard without information about the other person besides kinks. which I would think leads to a lot of jumping in c**k first.
But i've found that simply not mentioning anything sexual until they do, or until its warranted, goes a hell of a long way, and had 100% improved the response rate I receive.

[Du****]

18 minutes ago, Axlsub said:

Its not guaranteed to make men stand out though. If it does, there's no acknowledgement. They still get ignored more often than not. The best they get is a "thanks but you're not my type". 

I'm not complaining here. I'm giving my experience of this type of cold calling response. Women ARE bombarded by messages. It takes a big effort on their behalf to read a pick out a message for a reply. I get it. Most men don't, hence the short, crass, c&p messages. It is a numbers game for men as per the stats in this science talk. 

1. I promise you, hand on heart, men with good manners ALWAYS stand out.
2. That does not guarantee a response, but as Eyem says, it cements the good rep of the gentleman.
3. What is wrong with a “thanks but you’re not my type”? Why would anyone want to pursue someone who wasn’t their type?

[ey****]

Gonna confess my non-secret agenda

One day I will be at an event somewhere in the UK and someone will see me and recognise me and be like "Hey, you're black sheep" and I am and it'll be nice to have the positive experience of seeing them, even if of course what we both might be looking for doesn't balance out (unless of course, they're looking for more friends and people and so on) and that'll be great.

Mind, if they're a nice lady it might be "because you post so much awesome stuff you can kiss my feet, be my ashtray, be spat on, be borrowed as my toilet.... or because I'm a sub you can do any of those to me ;)" 

But actually the last bit is more of a half joke pipedream (Even if it has happened) 

[Deleted Member]

42 minutes ago, DuchessFeuille said:

1. I promise you, hand on heart, men with good manners ALWAYS stand out.
2. That does not guarantee a response, but as Eyem says, it cements the good rep of the gentleman.
3. What is wrong with a “thanks but you’re not my type”? Why would anyone want to pursue someone who wasn’t their type?

1. Thank you, that's reassuring, but it's not evident.

2. I can only hope it does. 

*3. There's nothing wrong with it after getting to know someone. Personally, I find it odd to think after a completed profile, which they rarely look at, and after reading a polite, non sexual introduction message, which apparently "stands out", the instinct is to reply with "you're not my type" (if they do reply) when they can't possibly have any idea without at least an exchange of a moderate length. Maybe even a phone call. 

Honestly, it's really hard to get past not being an aweful lot of women's type. 

[qu****]

All this is very well but from the online dating side of things, ( not so much community based site), it comes down to whether a sites algorithms match, we put up photos, fill out the profile and the site says here are your matches, you message but still get the I'm sorry you're not my type, you sit there thinking but the site says we're a perfect match, what's wrong with him/her, have they lied in their profile. The truth is the vast majority of sites are interested in profit over people, and couldn't boast, let's say over 1000, our site has over 1000 matching members , in reality it's probably only 50 people that truely match, or an even lower percentage, so while members could at times behave/respond better, it's the sites causing the problem by basically lying

[charlias]

44 minutes ago, Axlsub said:

1. Thank you, that's reassuring, but it's not evident.

2. I can only hope it does. 

*3. There's nothing wrong with it after getting to know someone. Personally, I find it odd to think after a completed profile, which they rarely look at, and after reading a polite, non sexual introduction message, which apparently "stands out", the instinct is to reply with "you're not my type" (if they do reply) when they can't possibly have any idea without at least an exchange of a moderate length. Maybe even a phone call. 

Honestly, it's really hard to get past not being an aweful lot of women's type. 

If that's a quality you don't like (*3 dismissive people) surly that's a bonus for you, as they weed themselves out.
Most people aren't most peoples type and finding the one has been a life time challenge since humans began. And even more so now that we are being actively told by the media what is attractive.

[qu****]

Speaking of matching, online it comes down to appearence and how you come across, in real life, before deodorants, perfumes and aftershaves smell was a large part of finding someone genetically matched to you, their scent causing pheromone detection and well you were either turned on or off, afterall we are ***s, there have been studies regarding this and when participants went without any form of perfumes etc it was discovered that body odour attraction was important,

[Gidorra]

Well, the statistics (not 'science') are what they are, independently of whether you are aware of them or not, so arguably, they cannot help. Though they may have the potential to frustrate you, depending on who you are

There is 'that other dating site' that shall not be named here, created by mathematicians and I have to say, I had rarely received profiles for my viewing pleasure which were a terrible mis-match. So science can certainly help at the back-end of a dating-site.

[Deleted Member]

@charlias here's some stats.

Dominant women between 45 and 60 within a 50km radius of me (so that captures Birmingham, Stoke, Shrewsbury cities) = 3

200 miles = 19

I think the pool of available women is very shallow in this age group.

20-30yo 50km = 19

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Deleted Member

[charlias]

2 hours ago, quietlysure said:

Speaking of matching, online it comes down to appearence and how you come across, in real life, before deodorants, perfumes and aftershaves smell was a large part of finding someone genetically matched to you, their scent causing pheromone detection and well you were either turned on or off, afterall we are ***s, there have been studies regarding this and when participants went without any form of perfumes etc it was discovered that body odour attraction was important,

Omg! I was at a climbing wall a while ago and me and this woman were chatting and climbing together. the smell of her sweat... It was so hot. I've never had an olfactory response like it, and knew at once that we were compatible.

[charlias]

2 hours ago, Gidorra said:

Well, the statistics (not 'science') are what they are, independently of whether you are aware of them or not, so arguably, they cannot help. Though they may have the potential to frustrate you, depending on who you are

There is 'that other dating site' that shall not be named here, created by mathematicians and I have to say, I had rarely received profiles for my viewing pleasure which were a terrible mis-match. So science can certainly help at the back-end of a dating-site.

???
”So can science help?...
Well...
No.
But! Looking at the data might stiffen the resolve... That, or induce an existential crisis..."