The Feminist Submissive

[CopperKnob]

If the first Dom I encountered had told me what to expect from a D/s relationship with him from the start, I would have accused him of misogyny before slamming a door in his face and running. Instead he seduced submission out of me one tiny cell at a time. I couldn't understand my response to it. Because, whilst it compelled me, it also grated against my feminist side.

A lack of control. Rules. Obedience. Punishments.
A part of me loved it. Another part of it felt that it was absolutely reprehensible. Kowtowing to a males authority, even if I had put him on that pedestal myself?
Feminism in that enviroment felt like a dead weight. It didn't feel possible. And yet, it seemed that only I had this conflict. That it was only me experiencing such turmoil. Finding the courage to return to another kink site, which is as feminist as the Daily Fail, none of the subs I spoke with were having any trouble reconciling their beliefs with their submission.

I learnt why
D/s has absolutely nothing to do with gender or societal norms. I'm not a sub because I'm a woman. BDSM doesn’t give a damn about the Y chromosome. A community which is notorious for enabling us to be free, to be who we want to be and is accepting of that, insists that we all choose our sexualities freely. It does not give a single duck to heteronormative ideas. What is more consistent with feminist ideology than that?

I also learnt the difference between subjugation and submission a short while after my initial D/s encounter. Subjugation doesn't facilitate equality. It keeps us inferior.

I choose submission, I don't see it as a loss of power, but as something that gives me power.

Amongst other things, submission comes from profound respect. If you're like the first Dom, I won’t submit at all because he made me feel completely disempowered. Not only did he feel that submission was his due, something to be given in exchange for selfish demands and nothing more, he also saw females as second class citizens. He'd confused subjugation and submission just like I had.

As counterintuitive as it may seem, equality is necessary in a power exchange dynamic, empowerment is the very thing that allows me to give up power.

Feminism and submission are symbiotic, they can absolutely live alongside each other in perfect harmony in a D/s relationship.

[Ch****]

I like your analysis of submission vs subjugation...I'll admit it hadn't really been on my radar because I'm not a "lifestyle subjugator" (if that's not a thing, maybe it should be). At any rate, you've give us something good to think about. I might also say that dominance and feminism are not mutually exclusive either.

[Xi****]

So well said ❤️
On the other side of things I sometimes feel male subs choose more stereotypical “female” attire as a way to get into the headspace of someone who “should” be submitting. While I am attracted to this and love being dominant, it confuses my internal feminist a bit.

[CopperKnob]

2 hours ago, ChromeDom said:

I like your analysis of submission vs subjugation...I'll admit it hadn't really been on my radar because I'm not a "lifestyle subjugator" (if that's not a thing, maybe it should be). At any rate, you've give us something good to think about. I might also say that dominance and feminism are not mutually exclusive either.

Dominance/feminism isn't something I've considered so interested in how you think they may not be mutually exclusive

[CopperKnob]

38 minutes ago, Xini said:

So well said ❤️
On the other side of things I sometimes feel male subs choose more stereotypical “female” attire as a way to get into the headspace of someone who “should” be submitting. While I am attracted to this and love being dominant, it confuses my internal feminist a bit.

So, like ChromeDom for you Dominance may not always/necessarily equate to feminism?

[Re****]

Feminism was originally invented by Rockefeller to push woman out of the home and less time barring kids. This provided a whole half of the population that could be used for more taxable income. Don’t be played by the system. Feminism doesn’t empower woman , it’s just there to tax your income eventually lol for more money and power for them !

[CopperKnob]

9 minutes ago, ReynoldsRap2222 said:

Feminism was originally invented by Rockefeller to push woman out of the home and less time barring kids. This provided a whole half of the population that could be used for more taxable income. Don’t be played by the system. Feminism doesn’t empower woman , it’s just there to tax your income eventually lol for more money and power for them !

Feminisim isn't simply about empowering women. It's about equality. For all genders

[Xi****]

52 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

So, like ChromeDom for you Dominance may not always/necessarily equate to feminism?

Exactly. I really appreciate the brain food about submission vs. subjugation. It’s important to me to consider what feelings and thoughts I’m pushing. Does my sub feel beautiful and like themselves or are they holding onto an idea that they can only be vulnerable and submissive dressed as a woman? It’s an important distinction to me. I wish for everyone to feel they can express themselves and their needs regardless of gender. The fluidity of gender roles is something I highly value in the BDSM community.

[Xi****]

40 minutes ago, ReynoldsRap2222 said:

Feminism was originally invented by Rockefeller to push woman out of the home and less time barring kids. This provided a whole half of the population that could be used for more taxable income. Don’t be played by the system. Feminism doesn’t empower woman , it’s just there to tax your income eventually lol for more money and power for them !

While I can see what you are trying to express, Feminism encapsulates much more than empowering women to enter the work force, but it’s certainly an important part of it. Prior to WW2 there were very few jobs for women - meaning they could not earn their own money and had to relay on those that could (men). This being the dynamic women who were in abusive relationship had very few if any options to leave the situation. Additionally, if widowed, women would find themselves impoverished. Think for a moment how your life would be if you could not work and relay on yourself. In addition to women’s rights, Feminist works to give equality for all genders. Feminist work to get paid family leave for men when have a new born and work to give access to men for reproductive planning (family planning), just as we work for those rights for women. Every sane and educated person should consider themselves a Feminist, but especially so in the BDSM community.

[CopperKnob]

49 minutes ago, Xini said:

Exactly. I really appreciate the brain food about submission vs. subjugation. It’s important to me to consider what feelings and thoughts I’m pushing. Does my sub feel beautiful and like themselves or are they holding onto an idea that they can only be vulnerable and submissive dressed as a woman? It’s an important distinction to me. I wish for everyone to feel they can express themselves and their needs regardless of gender. The fluidity of gender roles is something I highly value in the BDSM community.

Thank you. I hadn't considered that there may be some males who are only able to find their submissive headspace when dressed in clothing associated as that which is female

[Re****]

1 hour ago, Xini said:

While I can see what you are trying to express, Feminism encapsulates much more than empowering women to enter the work force, but it’s certainly an important part of it. Prior to WW2 there were very few jobs for women - meaning they could not earn their own money and had to relay on those that could (men). This being the dynamic women who were in abusive relationship had very few if any options to leave the situation. Additionally, if widowed, women would find themselves impoverished. Think for a moment how your life would be if you could not work and relay on yourself. In addition to women’s rights, Feminist works to give equality for all genders. Feminist work to get paid family leave for men when have a new born and work to give access to men for reproductive planning (family planning), just as we work for those rights for women. Every sane and educated person should consider themselves a Feminist, but especially so in the BDSM community.

What are you not getting? All that is made up bullshit. It was literally a plan set in motion by our elites in Washington to access more tax money lol. It’s no debate. Factual . All that shit you think is empowering or equal rights stems from a place of bullshit.
Birth control? More sex ? Abortion… equal pay and jobs . Means less time at home with babies more time working and earning taxable income

Now you may believe in those things which is great. As do I. Woman should have equal value and tools to protect them in abusive relationships and more jobs offered for woman.

But to label it as feminism is a way to only look stupid and uneducated about something that they’re trying to promote. Which is only causing them to less likely be able to influence an individuals opinion because of the unfortunate reflection of ignorance coming from someone using the term “feminism “. Unless tax purposes obviously

[Re****]

Again I support completely what your pushing under the term feminism …..
Just wish it wasn’t the actual term feminism

[Xi****]

6 minutes ago, ReynoldsRap2222 said:

Again I support completely what your pushing under the term feminism …..
Just wish it wasn’t the actual term feminism

I appreciate your thoughts and I understand where you are coming from. Gender equality is a fine term as well, though it’s sad that the word “feminism” conjures such sour feeling for some. Makes me think it’s more about the connection to femininity that people can’t stomach - which bothers me. Regardless of your preferred term, it sounds like we are on the same page.

[Xi****]

The page being that all people deserve equal rights.

[CopperKnob]

18 minutes ago, ReynoldsRap2222 said:

What are you not getting? All that is made up bullshit. It was literally a plan set in motion by our elites in Washington to access more tax money lol. It’s no debate. Factual . All that shit you think is empowering or equal rights stems from a place of bullshit.
Birth control? More sex ? Abortion… equal pay and jobs . Means less time at home with babies more time working and earning taxable income

Now you may believe in those things which is great. As do I. Woman should have equal value and tools to protect them in abusive relationships and more jobs offered for woman.

But to label it as feminism is a way to only look stupid and uneducated about something that they’re trying to promote. Which is only causing them to less likely be able to influence an individuals opinion because of the unfortunate reflection of ignorance coming from someone using the term “feminism “. Unless tax purposes obviously

Perhaps when responding to other peoples thoughts and opinions you can do so politely and with manners?
Rudeness only breeds more rudeness.
.
You may also want to think about the various types of feminism over the centuries in terms of goals and intentions. Various forms of feminism were around long before the Rockefeller you're talking about and has since moved on again.
.
You may also want to consider how current day feminism intends to work towards equality for all and how that impacts upon men in the positive.
.
Of course, to do that you'll have to step out of the Manosphere for a short while

[Xi****]

19 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

Perhaps when responding to other peoples thoughts and opinions you can do so politely and with manners?
Rudeness only breeds more rudeness.
.
You may also want to think about the various types of feminism over the centuries in terms of goals and intentions. Various forms of feminism were around long before the Rockefeller you're talking about and has since moved on again.
.
You may also want to consider how current day feminism intends to work towards equality for all and how that impacts upon men in the positive.
.
Of course, to do that you'll have to step out of the Manosphere for a short while

Very well put. You make a great point about historical context and allowing yourself to experience views from different perspectives. It’s important to keep an open mind. That’s why we’re all here, right?

[ki****]

Congratulations on nailing what initially appears to be a contradiction. Required reading for would-be 'doms'.

[CopperKnob]

2 minutes ago, kindofblue58 said:

Congratulations on nailing what initially appears to be a contradiction. Required reading for would-be 'doms'.

Dom's and any subs. It's taken me a long time to feel comfortable with submission because I struggled with it so much

[ki****]

4 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

Dom's and any subs. It's taken me a long time to feel comfortable with submission because I struggled with it so much

Likewise with dominance, because it jars with preconceived notions of equality and independence.

[CopperKnob]

39 minutes ago, kindofblue58 said:

Likewise with dominance, because it jars with preconceived notions of equality and independence.

I'm determined that there can be feminism in Dominance. Though, I'm struggling because I'm not one and, probably because of our stereotypical thinking about D/s. I think it just takes some out of the box thinking...

[ki****]

6 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

I'm determined that there can be feminism in Dominance. Though, I'm struggling because I'm not one and, probably because of our stereotypical thinking about D/s. I think it just takes some out of the box thinking...

You had it right when you posited feminism as societal and d/s as personal. When we enter that space with a partner, it's our world entire - which is why mutual trust, respect, understanding and communication are vital.

[Re****]

2 hours ago, CopperKnob said:

Perhaps when responding to other peoples thoughts and opinions you can do so politely and with manners?
Rudeness only breeds more rudeness.
.
You may also want to think about the various types of feminism over the centuries in terms of goals and intentions. Various forms of feminism were around long before the Rockefeller you're talking about and has since moved on again.
.
You may also want to consider how current day feminism intends to work towards equality for all and how that impacts upon men in the positive.
.
Of course, to do that you'll have to step out of the Manosphere for a short while

Omg your still not getting it the TERM FEMINISM and the idea being pushed was for money purposes.

No I don’t disagree with woman’s rights
Nor am I opposed to being near the idea of a woman’s influence and femininity, infant ask anyone I have more woman that run my business for me then men for many of reasons .

We’re just not getting it “different forms of feminism” no it’s actually different forms of equality . But feminism isn’t what your thinking it is and that’s my entire point. Your The one’s creating
The label to be diff then gender equality . That’s the problem. Ur not wanting what feminism acfual goals are , your intentions
Are not even close to
The true goals of the Inventor of feminism

[Xi****]

18 minutes ago, ReynoldsRap2222 said:

Omg your still not getting it the TERM FEMINISM and the idea being pushed was for money purposes.

No I don’t disagree with woman’s rights
Nor am I opposed to being near the idea of a woman’s influence and femininity, infant ask anyone I have more woman that run my business for me then men for many of reasons .

We’re just not getting it “different forms of feminism” no it’s actually different forms of equality . But feminism isn’t what your thinking it is and that’s my entire point. Your The one’s creating
The label to be diff then gender equality . That’s the problem. Ur not wanting what feminism acfual goals are , your intentions
Are not even close to
The true goals of the Inventor of feminism

Thank you for your opinions. Let’s instead put this discussion to the side and not derail from the original post.

[ey****]

every thread on feminism needs at least one man to mansplain gender equality  

[Xi****]

1 minute ago, eyemblacksheep said:

every thread on feminism needs at least one man to mansplain gender equality  

😂😂😂