Boundaries Outside of Dynamics

[Ju****]

Just now, BruisedScaredRabbit said:

I haven’t blocked you either. Just a bug I guess.

I see this, I don't see gemini's comment either. How odd haha. xx

[Th****]

5 minutes ago, Jeneral_Whore said:

I can see that yes ty. I haven't blocked these users, so bizarre.

I figured you hadn't, I've pretty much given up on the app if that's what you typically use. The browser is still buggy on occasion significantly less. 

[ge****]

6 minutes ago, BruisedScaredRabbit said:

I haven’t blocked you either. Just a bug I guess.

Depends how you came to access the thread - doing so on the app via notifications posts go missing - if you access it via the forums link on the app all posts are there.

[Deleted Member]

5 hours ago, Jeneral_Whore said:

Ok so. You are willing and able to verify the authenticity of a partner which is what you have said you're happy to do. However, people you seem to be interacting with (those who've admitted feels for example) are people who possibly??? haven't done the same. However while I agree it's always good you can vouch for someone you date, it's also good to ask people you are approached by if their partner is aware so THEY can let them know they're ok with the situation? If you see what I mean? 

Yes, I definitely will make this a part of my vetting and protocol.

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, ThaliaVirago said:

Do you see here that you are holding other people to different standards than you yourself had? You were available if your LDR partner's other partners wanted to verify but in the other scenarios you went out of your way to talk to the other person. I'm going to assume with how you said it turned out badly that you did so without the knowledge of the half you had been interacting with which to me would be inserting yourself into their relationship or dynamic and overstepping. Not everyone wants kitchen table or even parallel, some people practice don't ask don't tell and whatever your personal views are on dadt all you can do is choose not to participate if the way you prefer things to be differs from theirs. 

 

Imo "doing no harm" would be something like what BruisedScaredRabbit suggested. You having the boundary of telling someone you're talking to who has expressed interest that you will only consider a relationship or dynamic if you can verify their other partner(s) knowledge with them. 

 

Context helps a lot. As stated in my responses, all relationship partners contacted me first and made the first "move".  So, no, I did not insert myself. And while I do understand no two dynamics are alike, this is definitely something poly partners might need to consider in protocols and their dynamics sense they have the advantage and may not want others "poking into their dynamics". If I'm being pursued, then I have the right to ask imo.🤷🏽‍♀️

 

I do agree, hind sight is 20/20. I held myself to a higher standard than I held others. I have already corrected the issue. Mistakes are how we learn. But I cannot/will not take the responsibility of someone else and claim it as my own. That's unhealthy. Thanks for contributing.

[Deleted Member]

Grateful for the feedback and discussion. Thank you all. 🥰

[Th****]

37 minutes ago, 165Sw33t said:

Context helps a lot. As stated in my responses, all relationship partners contacted me first and made the first "move".  So, no, I did not insert myself. And while I do understand no two dynamics are alike, this is definitely something poly partners might need to consider in protocols and their dynamics sense they have the advantage and may not want others "poking into their dynamics". If I'm being pursued, then I have the right to ask imo.🤷🏽‍♀️

 

I do agree, hind sight is 20/20. I held myself to a higher standard than I held others. I have already corrected the issue. Mistakes are how we learn. But I cannot/will not take the responsibility of someone else and claim it as my own. That's unhealthy. Thanks for contributing.

Yes, definitely ask the person pursuing you, discuss it with *them*. But circumnavigation them and going to their partner is inserting yourself in whatever they have, especially if they have agreed to an don't ask don't tell situation this would be bad form on your part. You have every right to have the boundary of having everyone involved full knowledge and consent, but you can't *** it on people. 

 

How it would look would be telling the person pursuing you about how you do things. "Fab but I need to get confirmation directly from your parnter." Then either they set that up to happen or they don't like it and you walk away. Your boundaries are about how you conduct yourself, not about the other party. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by ThaliaVirago

[Ju****]

2 hours ago, gemini_man said:

Depends how you came to access the thread - doing so on the app via notifications posts go missing - if you access it via the forums link on the app all posts are there.

Not sure if you meant to reply to Bruised when I am having the issue?

I use the site. I never have issues seeing comments on forums. Until today. 

I only see this and the reply Bruised gave when I stated I cannot see previous replies. 

It's very odd.

[Ju****]

2 hours ago, ThaliaVirago said:

I figured you hadn't, I've pretty much given up on the app if that's what you typically use. The browser is still buggy on occasion significantly less. 

Nope I refuse to use the app, always always site for me xx

[Br****]

Maybe it lost it because I was on the app who knows?

[Deleted Member]

4 hours ago, ThaliaVirago said:

Yes, definitely ask the person pursuing you, discuss it with *them*. But circumnavigation them and going to their partner is inserting yourself in whatever they have, especially if they have agreed to an don't ask don't tell situation this would be bad form on your part. You have every right to have the boundary of having everyone involved full knowledge and consent, but you can't *** it on people. 

 

How it would look would be telling the person pursuing you about how you do things. "Fab but I need to get confirmation directly from your parnter." Then either they set that up to happen or they don't like it and you walk away. Your boundaries are about how you conduct yourself, not about the other party. 

I disagree, while I understand your perspective, you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of; inserting yourself and telling me how to do things. So, if my boundaries are about me, then I know I made the best decision I thought was appropriate. Unfortunately with cheating partners it's a lose lose situation even when you don't want to be involved. 

[Br****]

Yes but Sw33t - even if you have been approached that doesn’t necessarily give you permission to blow the other person’s life up because you want transparency. If they want transparency that’s one thing but if they say no - you walk away, you don’t go and *** transparency - that’s lack of consent.

[Chloebear]

21 minutes ago, BruisedScaredRabbit said:

Yes but Sw33t - even if you have been approached that doesn’t necessarily give you permission to blow the other person’s life up because you want transparency. If they want transparency that’s one thing but if they say no - you walk away, you don’t go and *** transparency - that’s lack of consent.

However… within the dynamic, the cheating person is also acting without consent. That’s why communication is so important, and increasingly so the more people involved. If as the third you’re concerned there isn’t transparency, it’s an awkward situation to be in. I have previously encouraged them to be honest rather than approaching myself, but there’s no guarantee they will. I’ve also seen people play off six or more partners who had no idea about each other… some people misunderstand poly or use it as cover to do what they want.

[Deleted Member]

2 hours ago, BruisedScaredRabbit said:

Yes but Sw33t - even if you have been approached that doesn’t necessarily give you permission to blow the other person’s life up because you want transparency. If they want transparency that’s one thing but if they say no - you walk away, you don’t go and *** transparency - that’s lack of consent.

I see your point but I still disagree and I'll explain why. First, for those who don't know me, I would never intentionally take someone's consent away nor "blow their life up!" There's always more to the story.

Unfortunately, in these situations, there is no "win" scenario. I think it's important to differentiate harm vs. hurt. And dissect this in the order of events

Remember, I did not initiate any of these interactions. I was approached and advancements were made. My consent was taken when I was put into these situations. Even still, my thought process immediately went to the other partner. So, I really do think understanding a person's intention really helps define the ***.

If I am given information that could potentially destroy an individual, I will always share it. I'm not one to sit back and watch the demise of someone else when I have the advantage. For me, that is my ethical/moral responsibility. Do no harm.

So while I see your point, me taking someone's choice away did caused *** that was hurt. I was not the one who was betraying trust and maliciously harming their partner/dynamic.

[Ju****]

8 hours ago, Chloebear said:

However… within the dynamic, the cheating person is also acting without consent. That’s why communication is so important, and increasingly so the more people involved. If as the third you’re concerned there isn’t transparency, it’s an awkward situation to be in. I have previously encouraged them to be honest rather than approaching myself, but there’s no guarantee they will. I’ve also seen people play off six or more partners who had no idea about each other… some people misunderstand poly or use it as cover to do what they want.

For me.... the transparency,  and telling the additional/unaware partner,  boils down to the intent behind it. 

 

Are you just telling him or her because you got hurt by one of them?

 

Are you telling him or her because you genuinely feel concerned for his or her well being?

 

Are you telling him or her because you are wanting to cause a divide in that couple?

 

.

 

Middle one is the only one I'd tell a partner for.

Don't get me wrong I've acted for the first one there, but not the last. But I know it sure happens.

I agree someone's acting out of consent anf cheating and whatever else,  so should they get their karma back, or be left to it? Or the other half informed and given a choice? 

 

It's a tough situation for sure. But how it's judged, in a way, is by the intent.

[Deleted Member]

47 minutes ago, Jeneral_Whore said:

For me.... the transparency,  and telling the additional/unaware partner,  boils down to the intent behind it. 

 

Are you just telling him or her because you got hurt by one of them?

 

Are you telling him or her because you genuinely feel concerned for his or her well being?

 

Are you telling him or her because you are wanting to cause a divide in that couple?

 

.

 

Middle one is the only one I'd tell a partner for.

Don't get me wrong I've acted for the first one there, but not the last. But I know it sure happens.

I agree someone's acting out of consent anf cheating and whatever else,  so should they get their karma back, or be left to it? Or the other half informed and given a choice? 

 

It's a tough situation for sure. But how it's judged, in a way, is by the intent.

My intention was to help the partner when I discovered the other was lying or omitting the truth. I am a big picture person. I always take screenshots and show proof. FET and the law encourage them as evidence.

SIDE NOTE: Some hate that screenshots are taken and think they are invasion of privacy but it's not. The FBI website warns that the internet has malicious people and makes aware to the users that they assume risk of what they post and share and to whom. There is also a list of malicious intent online to distinguish cyberbullying.

So going back full circle, when I share a screenshot shot, it is done in privacy with trusted individuals, undoctered. It is done objectively and where the other individual can make their own decisions unbiased. And I have seen folks deny the truth in front of them...but that's a whole different conversation.If I feel someone has been unfair, I show the content instead of warping my words to manipulate bias/favoritism.

This is where character comes into play. So here's my pattern. You yourself Jen, have witnessed me in chat many times. Our first discussion got heated and we didn't get along. But then we got to talk via DMs and work things out. I am always happy to admit fault if I feel I've done something wrong or I can correct my behavior.
There are a lot of relationships and friendships here that didn't work out the way I wanted. I never sought to destroy them bc I'm not vindictive.
In regards to the cheating, at one point I sought objective counsel on what to do. The outsider only knew the situation, never any names. They helped me see full picture and respond; not react. To this day, that person still doesn't know who was involved. If I can't work out a relationship I walk away or if necessary, I block. This is my character.

[Ju****]

27 minutes ago, 165Sw33t said:

My intention was to help the partner when I discovered the other was lying or omitting the truth. I am a big picture person. I always take screenshots and show proof. FET and the law encourage them as evidence.

SIDE NOTE: Some hate that screenshots are taken and think they are invasion of privacy but it's not. The FBI website warns that the internet has malicious people and makes aware to the users that they assume risk of what they post and share and to whom. There is also a list of malicious intent online to distinguish cyberbullying.

So going back full circle, when I share a screenshot shot, it is done in privacy with trusted individuals, undoctered. It is done objectively and where the other individual can make their own decisions unbiased. And I have seen folks deny the truth in front of them...but that's a whole different conversation.If I feel someone has been unfair, I show the content instead of warping my words to manipulate bias/favoritism.

This is where character comes into play. So here's my pattern. You yourself Jen, have witnessed me in chat many times. Our first discussion got heated and we didn't get along. But then we got to talk via DMs and work things out. I am always happy to admit fault if I feel I've done something wrong or I can correct my behavior.
There are a lot of relationships and friendships here that didn't work out the way I wanted. I never sought to destroy them bc I'm not vindictive.
In regards to the cheating, at one point I sought objective counsel on what to do. The outsider only knew the situation, never any names. They helped me see full picture and respond; not react. To this day, that person still doesn't know who was involved. If I can't work out a relationship I walk away or if necessary, I block. This is my character.

Yes our disagreement was about car licence plates, of all things. But we did sort that at the time, and didn't feel the need to hold onto any animosity. 

 

Again with screen shots, it's it breaking privacy if used as evidence to a situation that has turned sour I guess, but the way they are shared, is again down to intent. 

But the main focus is couples/individuals within that not being transparent. I think it is a learning curve on what behaviours and habits to perhaps look out for should you date again, and know to avoid if your gut flags you about it.

All anyone should try to do, is be honest, and genuine, within their dynamic and otherwise, then a lot of these issues don't arise.

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, Jeneral_Whore said:

Yes our disagreement was about car licence plates, of all things. But we did sort that at the time, and didn't feel the need to hold onto any animosity. 

 

Again with screen shots, it's it breaking privacy if used as evidence to a situation that has turned sour I guess, but the way they are shared, is again down to intent. 

But the main focus is couples/individuals within that not being transparent. I think it is a learning curve on what behaviours and habits to perhaps look out for should you date again, and know to avoid if your gut flags you about it.

All anyone should try to do, is be honest, and genuine, within their dynamic and otherwise, then a lot of these issues don't arise.

Yes we did resolve it and I love that. 💕 So here in the states regarding screenshots, it is not a breach of privacy according to the Privacy Act of 2012 because the individual was made aware of risks by the site, app etc. By engaging in the social media platform they are giving consent to sharing their information. But I also do agree intent is everything.
Just to add, I try to research information via government websites and not just discussion or media platforms. There's a lot of misinformation. I have personally been through a criminal case where the district attorney has used screenshots as evidence so I am very aware of how to use them appropriately

[sp****]

Sweet I have had a thought about disclosure and such that you are talking about I understand that you feel transparency is tantamount and that you should be transparent to the persons partner of any interactions but take this into consideration of a person who has an open relationship but the persons partner doesn't want to know about any other interactions

[sp****]

By you being transparent with that persons partner you then risk blowing up that persons relationship

[sp****]

Just food for thought

[Ju****]

32 minutes ago, spyder89 said:

Sweet I have had a thought about disclosure and such that you are talking about I understand that you feel transparency is tantamount and that you should be transparent to the persons partner of any interactions but take this into consideration of a person who has an open relationship but the persons partner doesn't want to know about any other interactions

I really get what you are saying here. It's very valid. 

 

Brings me down the thinking route of a few different things.

 

1. Did the individual tell her their partner was ok with it, and she sought that clarification? People sometimes do this, as you can't always take someone's word as gospel, but genuine people don't mind.

Even if it's just, I am speaking to "such n such" I hope this is ok, and if not, I won't intrude?!"

2. Yes the approacher is indeed genuine, and their partner is aware but has told them not to make them aware of any meetings etc they have. But this is where it gets complicated. The person may be telling the truth, but in order to KNOW you're doing right by someone it's always good to have that confirmed, and in approaching the other  half it is courteous and good intent to make sure they're well being is met, but it does also risk, them being made aware of something they don't want to know.

I think in cases like that, for me, I would ask a part of a couple, if just them, and they told me their partner doesn't want to know anything, I would ask that person for proof.

For example, IF I was an approacher and someone asked proof from me that my partner was ok with things, I'd try to show them something along the lines of...

 

Me: Hey so us being open, I just want to check that you still don't want to know details of things I do should I meet someone else, or has that changed?

Partner: Yes I would rather not know, thanks for checking in. 

 OR

Me:  Hey so us being open, I just want to check that you still don't want to know details of things I do should I meet someone else, or has that changed?

Partner: Yeh I don't want to know details but if I need to vouch for you or anything, I will.

OR

Partner: Yes no details but make me aware of who so I am informed, thanks.

 

 

All different ways to be discreet but show transparency.

[sp****]

3 minutes ago, Jeneral_Whore said:

I really get what you are saying here. It's very valid. 

 

Brings me down the thinking route of a few different things.

 

1. Did the individual tell her their partner was ok with it, and she sought that clarification? People sometimes do this, as you can't always take someone's word as gospel, but genuine people don't mind.

Even if it's just, I am speaking to "such n such" I hope this is ok, and if not, I won't intrude?!"

2. Yes the approacher is indeed genuine, and their partner is aware but has told them not to make them aware of any meetings etc they have. But this is where it gets complicated. The person may be telling the truth, but in order to KNOW you're doing right by someone it's always good to have that confirmed, and in approaching the other  half it is courteous and good intent to make sure they're well being is met, but it does also risk, them being made aware of something they don't want to know.

I think in cases like that, for me, I would ask a part of a couple, if just them, and they told me their partner doesn't want to know anything, I would ask that person for proof.

For example, IF I was an approacher and someone asked proof from me that my partner was ok with things, I'd try to show them something along the lines of...

 

Me: Hey so us being open, I just want to check that you still don't want to know details of things I do should I meet someone else, or has that changed?

Partner: Yes I would rather not know, thanks for checking in. 

 OR

Me:  Hey so us being open, I just want to check that you still don't want to know details of things I do should I meet someone else, or has that changed?

Partner: Yeh I don't want to know details but if I need to vouch for you or anything, I will.

OR

Partner: Yes no details but make me aware of who so I am informed, thanks.

 

 

All different ways to be discreet but show transparency.

That's kinda what I'm getting at jen yes it is difficult to navigate but it is something to consider but those are great examples jen

[Chloebear]

6 hours ago, Jeneral_Whore said:

For me.... the transparency,  and telling the additional/unaware partner,  boils down to the intent behind it. 

 

Are you just telling him or her because you got hurt by one of them?

 

Are you telling him or her because you genuinely feel concerned for his or her well being?

 

Are you telling him or her because you are wanting to cause a divide in that couple?

 

.

 

Middle one is the only one I'd tell a partner for.

Don't get me wrong I've acted for the first one there, but not the last. But I know it sure happens.

I agree someone's acting out of consent anf cheating and whatever else,  so should they get their karma back, or be left to it? Or the other half informed and given a choice? 

 

It's a tough situation for sure. But how it's judged, in a way, is by the intent.

Completely agree. And you’d better be damn sure you have your facts in order first haha! I’ve told a couple of times…. It was the right thing to do in those instances, but it wasn’t easy and it was hurtful to them. It did allow them an informed choice though… others I’ve just let get on with it… or like I said encouraged the cheating partner to be honest. It depends on the circumstances and what you’re messing with and why. If you do it for personal gain, it’s not right but also it’ll probably backfire anyway.

[Chloebear]

3 hours ago, spyder89 said:

By you being transparent with that persons partner you then risk blowing up that persons relationship

Really, this should form part of initial conversations so you know where you stand, as completely agree, some don’t want to know details in open relationships. Although there are again people who use this as cover. You have to take the word of the person you’re with though and if this is outlined as the arrangement, must respect it. If they explain this and you disregard it, you have breached their consent and trust. Whatever your motivations, you’ve disregarded your agreement and it will likely end that partnership.