Born ?.....or made?

[Co****]

I ve not heared this viewpoint before.
.......' if the Sub is really the one in Control- then anything that goes wrong is surely on them?'

I de read the Sub has the Power, the Sub is in Control really.

However, you ve reminded me of if a Dom gets carried away, and does more than is Comfortable for the Sub?
As I had happen on my very first meet.

It going wrong was on the Dom.

I was nt in Control.......

Not even to remember to say Red, I was so shocked.

Probably a different Topic .......x

[helpinghand_256]

1 minute ago, ThaliaV said:

My response wasn't in any way meant to be unkind or snarky, especially not towards you. My general style of communication is very straightforward and direct and since there isn't any tone or expression in text some people can read me as being harsh when I'm really not being so at all. Several long standing members here can attest to that. 

I do, however, often get quite frustrated and feel the urge to 🙄 at some of the things other Dominants have to say when these types of topics and discussions come up. 

Yeah, I believe we were both part of a thread a while back with some guy who was... Very toxic to say the least

[Th****]

1 minute ago, CosmicAngel said:

I ve not heared this viewpoint before.
.......' if the Sub is really the one in Control- then anything that goes wrong is surely on them?'

I de read the Sub has the Power, the Sub is in Control really.

However, you ve reminded me of if a Dom gets carried away, and does more than is Comfortable for the Sub?
As I had happen on my very first meet.

It going wrong was on the Dom.

I was nt in Control.......

Not even to remember to say Red, I was so shocked.

Probably a different Topic .......x






 

To briefly touch on this, and yes perhaps better for a whole separate thread to elaborate, I don't thing that power and control are interchangeable concepts. They're separate and different things. Authority would be yet another. 

[Co****]

2 minutes ago, CosmicAngel said:

I ve not heared this viewpoint before.
.......' if the Sub is really the one in Control- then anything that goes wrong is surely on them?'

I de read the Sub has the Power, the Sub is in Control really.

However, you ve reminded me of if a Dom gets carried away, and does more than is Comfortable for the Sub?
As I had happen on my very first meet.

It going wrong was on the Dom.

I was nt in Control.......

Not even to remember to say Red, I was so shocked.

Probably a different Topic .......x






 

Ooops,that was in reply to Eyemblacksheeps post previously.  X

 

[helpinghand_256]

3 minutes ago, CosmicAngel said:

I ve not heared this viewpoint before.
.......' if the Sub is really the one in Control- then anything that goes wrong is surely on them?'

I de read the Sub has the Power, the Sub is in Control really.

However, you ve reminded me of if a Dom gets carried away, and does more than is Comfortable for the Sub?
As I had happen on my very first meet.

It going wrong was on the Dom.

I was nt in Control.......

Not even to remember to say Red, I was so shocked.

Probably a different Topic .......x






 

It's a constant communication right? The Dom is the one with authority, but they still have to listen to the sub as their partner just as the sub has to listen to the Dom as their partner, as well as perhaps their Master. So to say that either one has more control than the other is wrong. The Dom needs to be able to read the room and not go so far that the sub has to exert the control they DO have, but the sub should also be able to trust the Dom with the control they have given up - if any. 

[Th****]

5 minutes ago, lookingabout_256 said:

It's a constant communication right? The Dom is the one with authority, but they still have to listen to the sub as their partner just as the sub has to listen to the Dom as their partner, as well as perhaps their Master. So to say that either one has more control than the other is wrong. The Dom needs to be able to read the room and not go so far that the sub has to exert the control they DO have, but the sub should also be able to trust the Dom with the control they have given up - if any. 

Hence the term power *exchange*

[Th****]

25 minutes ago, Coco_De_Leche said:

With anything you can learn it (because even if you’re born with a quality you still have to learn aspects…) and you can act/fake it but imo it takes a mixture of these “natural” qualities for the person on the other side of the exchange to truly feel the benefit of the power dynamic.

At some point in learning things do, in a sense, become "natural." We all have the ability to evolve and grow as individuals. The traits one has inherently can make things either easier or more difficult to develop through "nurture" (environmental influences and doing conscious work) but it's less often those traits make things impossible even if very unlikely or very difficult. 

[Co****]

2 hours ago, ThaliaV said:

At some point in learning things do, in a sense, become "natural." We all have the ability to evolve and grow as individuals. The traits one has inherently can make things either easier or more difficult to develop through "nurture" (environmental influences and doing conscious work) but it's less often those traits make things impossible even if very unlikely or very difficult. 

I don’t disagree.

[ey****]

2 hours ago, CosmicAngel said:

I ve not heared this viewpoint before.
.......' if the Sub is really the one in Control- then anything that goes wrong is surely on them?'

I de read the Sub has the Power, the Sub is in Control really.

However, you ve reminded me of if a Dom gets carried away, and does more than is Comfortable for the Sub?
As I had happen on my very first meet.

It going wrong was on the Dom.

I was nt in Control.......

Not even to remember to say Red, I was so shocked.

Probably a different Topic .......x
 

there's a lot that ties in with my point

sometimes subs take/do more than they're comfortable with for many reasons - be it too stunned to call red, subspace can also be a limiter, be it scared of letting the Dominant down, be it that they don't want play to end so are hoping things will change within the play : and the question here is - why can't the Dominant read the situation? why doesn't the Dominant understand factors limiting the response? and this is communication

The Dominant HAS to be the one controlling the scene.  The submissive has a number of factors where they are not in control.  

[Th****]

3 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

there's a lot that ties in with my point

sometimes subs take/do more than they're comfortable with for many reasons - be it too stunned to call red, subspace can also be a limiter, be it scared of letting the Dominant down, be it that they don't want play to end so are hoping things will change within the play : and the question here is - why can't the Dominant read the situation? why doesn't the Dominant understand factors limiting the response? and this is communication

The Dominant HAS to be the one controlling the scene.  The submissive has a number of factors where they are not in control.  

Excellent examples of the level of *responsibility* it is in being a Dominant or top. These aren't things to be taken lightly as very real harm both physically and psychologically can occur. Also a good reason for having spotters. 

[Leisa]

I think alpha is a trait someone is born with. I think Dom/Dommes are made through education and experience

[Th****]

5 minutes ago, Leisa said:

I think alpha is a trait someone is born with. I think Dom/Dommes are made through education and experience

Nope "alpha" is nothing more than a position of rank. Most alpha talk is toxic nonsense and I've yet to see anyone who self describes as one be anything like any of the truly impressive Dominants I respect. 

[Leisa]

6 minutes ago, ThaliaV said:

Nope "alpha" is nothing more than a position of rank. Most alpha talk is toxic nonsense and I've yet to see anyone who self describes as one be anything like any of the truly impressive Dominants I respect. 

Agree to disagree. The question asked for an opinion.

[Deleted Member]

2 hours ago, ThaliaV said:

Excellent examples of the level of *responsibility* it is in being a Dominant or top. These aren't things to be taken lightly as very real harm both physically and psychologically can occur. Also a good reason for having spotters. 

What’s a spotter? A third party?

[Th****]

7 minutes ago, centralpark said:

What’s a spotter? A third party?

Yes, exactly that. Someone not actually participating who watches and assists in making sure that the sub/bottom is doing ok and/or that the Dom/top is respecting boundaries and limits or even just another pair of eyes to catch things the top might miss. They can particularly helpful in pick up play at a party or event and edge play. 

Edited April 7 by ThaliaV
Typo and punctuation

[helpinghand_256]

32 minutes ago, ThaliaV said:

Yes, exactly that. Someone not actually participating who watches and assists in making sure that the sub/bottom is doing ok and/or that the Dom/top is respecting boundaries and limits or even just another pair of eyes to catch things the top might miss. They can particularly helpful in pick up play at a party or event and edge play. 

Unrelated to the thread but how common is this? I think it's a great idea to help hold people accountable and within the bounds of sanity, but it doesn't seem like something many people would be interested in doing? And when would you reckon it's necessary? 

[Th****]

11 minutes ago, lookingabout_256 said:

Unrelated to the thread but how common is this? I think it's a great idea to help hold people accountable and within the bounds of sanity, but it doesn't seem like something many people would be interested in doing? And when would you reckon it's necessary? 

It seems to be pretty common for those active in public play at dungeons and play parties. It's kind of part of what a dungeon monitor does. 

I know friends who use it a lot because they're pretty heavy edge players as well as there are a few of the play partners who have various health conditions. Certain things within edge play, like fire, requires the top to really focus on what they're doing, so having another person there can be an excellent safety precaution. 

[ey****]

21 minutes ago, lookingabout_256 said:

Unrelated to the thread but how common is this? I think it's a great idea to help hold people accountable and within the bounds of sanity, but it doesn't seem like something many people would be interested in doing? And when would you reckon it's necessary? 

Dungeon Monitors are a good example

Equally, sometimes - so I've played with ladies where their partner or my wife is also casting an eye to be able to give feedback that might be missed

they're very common in gang bangs - so often the ladies actual partner might not be involved in the gb but casting eyes - making sure nobody "forgets" what was consented to (or intervenes with something which wasn't discussed but would/wouldn't be permitted) and also green light others joining the scene, or not

[Shilo66]

On 4/6/2024 at 10:26 PM, CosmicAngel said:

 

Hi, I'm  relatively newish, been on here for 2 years on and off,  reading, learning, chatting. ....

Had a couple of experiences along the way to hopefully  finding my Dom.

One good, one not so.

Someone said to me recently,  that 'Doms are born,  and not made'

Im inclined to agree.

I think its an innate quality in someone that you feel or know,  by the way they talk , act speak.

Which is hard to learn.

I wondered what other more experienced peoples thoughts were on this?....

 

In the context of this Kinky Sex Arena, in my opinion, it's definitely as you say 'Doms are born, not made.'

For simplicity, to me, it's no different to someone who is naturally inclined to be either:

Heterosexual,

Bisexual, or...

Homosexual.

We all fall instinctively into one of the above mentioned groups.

* P.S. I'm fully aware of the other spectrums of LGBTQ+.... but for this explanation, I'm just keeping things simple.*

So, having mentioned the three main naturally inclined groups above, we then naturally fall into the three main sub groups below of:

Those who naturally enjoy doing things to certain others.... usually Doms.

Those who naturally enjoy having things done to them by certain others.... usually Subs.

Those who naturally enjoy either doing things to, or receiving things from, certain others... usually Switches.   

To illustrate my point, OP, your description of yourself on here in Kinky Space, is that of a Submissive, a role that comes naturally to you and one you feel most comfortable with.... It's the exact same thing for those of us taking up the title of Dominant.  A role that comes naturally to us in Kinky Space and one that we feel most comfortable with for all the above previously mentioned reasons, whether we're Straight, Gay, or Bi.

 

 

[Th****]

38 minutes ago, Shilo66 said:

Those who naturally enjoy doing things to certain others.... usually Doms.

Those who naturally enjoy having things done to them by certain others.... usually Subs.

Those who naturally enjoy either doing things to, or receiving things from, certain others... usually Switches.   

What you've described here is Top, bottom, vers. Not Dom, sub, switch. 

Humans are still humans even in "kinky space" so nature/nurture still applies. 

[Shilo66]

51 minutes ago, ThaliaV said:

What you've described here is Top, bottom, vers. Not Dom, sub, switch. 

Humans are still humans even in "kinky space" so nature/nurture still applies. 

I disagree, because in "Kinky Space" most 'Tops' tend to be Dominants, and, most 'Bottoms' tend to be Submissives, regardless of sexuality.

With regards to nature/nurture in "Kinky Space",  a lot of people come into this field to "learn" how to become more of what they naturally feel themselves to be... in this field.   

For example, someone who is naturally submissive in "Kinky Space" could learn to role play as a dominant, the "nurture" thing you're on about, but they wouldn't really enjoy doing so, because that role is not in their "nature" here. They're more interested in becoming a better Sub, AND finding a compatible Dominant to dominate them the way they think they should be. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 8 by Shilo66

[Th****]

1 minute ago, Shilo66 said:

I disagree, because in "Kinky Space" most 'Tops' tend to be Dominants, and, most 'Bottoms' tend to be Submissives, regardless of sexuality.

It has nothing to do with anyone's sexuality. A rope top is ther person who ties, a rope bottom gets tied up. 

In kink and BDSM a top does the thing a bottom is the one having the thing done to them. 

A Dominant gives direction a submissive follows direction. A Dominant can instruct their sub to top if they wish to recieve impact or be pegged or anything else. They're still the Dominant because they're the one with power and control. 

[Shilo66]

46 minutes ago, ThaliaV said:

It has nothing to do with anyone's sexuality.  

I clearly stated that ... did you miss it?

53 minutes ago, Shilo66 said:

I disagree, because in "Kinky Space" most 'Tops' tend to be Dominants, and, most 'Bottoms' tend to be Submissives, regardless of sexuality.

46 minutes ago, ThaliaV said:

In kink and BDSM a top does the thing a bottom is the one having the thing done to them. 

Exactly the same as a Dominant doing a "thing" to their Submissive, such as "spanking them."

46 minutes ago, ThaliaV said:

A Dominant gives direction a submissive follows direction. 

A Dominant doesn't just "give direction," we also get to just do "things" to our Submissives within already agreed upon parameters and criteria... CNC is a good example of this.

46 minutes ago, ThaliaV said:

A Dominant can instruct their sub to top if they wish to recieve impact or be pegged or anything else. They're still the Dominant because they're the one with power and control. 

I've already covered this aspect here .... note the part where I mentioned "finding a compatible Dominant" in the last sentence below. And, if the Dominant wanted the Sub to 'Peg' him, this would only happen if it was part of the  'already agreed upon parameters and criteria' I've mentioned above, because not all Subs want to 'peg' or 'impact play' on their dominants.

53 minutes ago, Shilo66 said:

For example, someone who is naturally submissive in "Kinky Space" could learn to role play as a dominant, the "nurture" thing you're on about, but they wouldn't really enjoy doing so, because that role is not in their "nature" here. They're more interested in becoming a better Sub, AND finding a compatible Dominant to dominate them the way they think they should be. 

 

Edited April 8 by Shilo66

[Th****]

1 hour ago, Shilo66 said:

I clearly stated that ... did you miss it?

Exactly the same as a Dominant doing a "thing" to their Submissive, such as "spanking them."

A Dominant doesn't just "give direction," we also get to just do "things" to our Submissives within already agreed upon parameters and criteria... CNC is a good example of this.

I've already covered this aspect here .... note the part where I mentioned "finding a compatible Dominant" in the last sentence below. And, if the Dominant wanted the Sub to 'Peg' him, this would only happen if it was part of the  'already agreed upon parameters and criteria' I've mentioned above, because not all Subs want to 'peg' or 'impact play' on their dominants.

 

I'm well aware of what a Dominant is I am one. Dominants can both top and bottom. Topping and bottoming are seperate from D/s. What you originally described as the one who does things to others is a top. As you described it, there is no D/s involved. A top *can* be a Dominant but they aren't necessarily a Dominant. Doing something and having something done to you doesn't inherently involve D/s. 

[Shilo66]

6 hours ago, ThaliaV said:

I'm well aware of what a Dominant is I am one.  

Really?... I never would have guessed from all the numerous times you've stated so and mentioned it in the equally numerous and various forum threads. Thanks for the heads up.

So it was a very lucky guess on my part that I correctly assumed your status when I wrote this... ... Yeah, the "WE" and "OUR" parts can be difficult to comprehend.

8 hours ago, Shilo66 said:

A Dominant doesn't just "give direction," we also get to just do "things" to our Submissives within already agreed upon parameters and criteria... CNC is a good example of this.

 

6 hours ago, ThaliaV said:

What you originally described as the one who does things to others is a top. 

Wrong... this is what I actually wrote . I'm really curious why the  word "usually" is so difficult to grasp.

10 hours ago, Shilo66 said:

Those who naturally enjoy doing things to certain others.... usually Doms.

Those who naturally enjoy having things done to them by certain others.... usually Subs.

Those who naturally enjoy either doing things to, or receiving things from, certain others... usually Switches.   

And just to make sure things stay on topic, and, are easier to understand, I'll break down the definitions even further....

A Dom is the person who has control/power/authority in a D/s relationship.

A Sub is the person who has given up some amount of control/power/authority to the Dom within a D/s relationship. This, to be clear, includes "following" instructions given to them by their Dominant.... so long as those instructions/directions fall within already agreed upon parameters and criteria.... Remember, the Sub has only given up "some amount of control," not all of it.  

Edited April 8 by Shilo66