Born ?.....or made?

[Th****]

5 hours ago, Shilo66 said:

A Dom is the person who has control/power/authority in a D/s relationship.

A Sub is the person who has given up some amount of control/power/authority to the Dom within a D/s relationship. This, to be clear, includes "following" instructions given to them by their Dominant.... so long as those instructions/directions fall within already agreed upon parameters and criteria.... Remember, the Sub has only given up "some amount of control," not all of it.  

Yes, however this is very different from what you first stated but I've yet to see you enter in any conversation in good faith with the intent for collaboration and mutual understanding. You're consistently argumentative, belittling and condescending towards others so there's no point spending the time and energy trying to get you to understand the why's and how's because it's obvious you have no interest. 

[mad-potato72]

Ever since I can remember, Ive always had a foot fetish, but its like there is a lot of go between when it comes to my personality. I've always been timid, kind of afraid of the opposite sex. I always felt a lady deserves respect, and want to treat her right. However I don't like to be degraded. To me theres nothing sexier than a woman in charge. I don't know maybe its because I lost my dad at a young age to cancer who could show me the ropes on what a man is supposed to be and what not. I always hated in movie scenes seeing a woman being taken advantage of or sexually violated. I don't know was I born with it? Or does it come from upbringing?

[Shilo66]

3 hours ago, ThaliaV said:

Yes, however this is very different from what you first stated but I've yet to see you enter in any conversation in good faith with the intent for collaboration and mutual understanding. You're consistently argumentative, belittling and condescending towards others so there's no point spending the time and energy trying to get you to understand the why's and how's because it's obvious you have no interest. 

Wrong again... this was the original question on this thread ... 

On 4/6/2024 at 10:26 PM, CosmicAngel said:

Someone said to me recently,  that 'Doms are born,  and not made'

Im inclined to agree.

I think its an innate quality in someone that you feel or know,  by the way they talk , act speak.

Which is hard to learn.

I wondered what other more experienced peoples thoughts were on this?....

... and I answered it thus ...

19 hours ago, Shilo66 said:

In the context of this Kinky Sex Arena, in my opinion, it's definitely as you say 'Doms are born, not made.'

For simplicity, to me, it's no different to someone who is naturally inclined to be either:

Heterosexual,

Bisexual, or...

Homosexual.

We all fall instinctively into one of the above mentioned groups.

* P.S. I'm fully aware of the other spectrums of LGBTQ+.... but for this explanation, I'm just keeping things simple.*

So, having mentioned the three main naturally inclined groups above, we then naturally fall into the three main sub groups below of:

Those who naturally enjoy doing things to certain others.... usually Doms.

Those who naturally enjoy having things done to them by certain others.... usually Subs.

Those who naturally enjoy either doing things to, or receiving things from, certain others... usually Switches.   

To illustrate my point, OP, your description of yourself on here in Kinky Space, is that of a Submissive, a role that comes naturally to you and one you feel most comfortable with.... It's the exact same thing for those of us taking up the title of Dominant.  A role that comes naturally to us in Kinky Space and one that we feel most comfortable with for all the above previously mentioned reasons, whether we're Straight, Gay, or Bi.

So, as can be seen, I stayed fully on topic when answering the OP's question... You didn't.

You started to talk about Tops and Bottoms, which has nothing to do with the original question of whether a Dominant is born or made. To which, trying to keep you on track with this question, I simply pointed out that most Tops tend to be Dominants and most  bottoms tend to be Subs. I then gave further clarification of OUR (yours and mine) role of being a Dominant, and also further clarification of a Submissive role. 

If my writing appears condescending, rest assured, it is only reserved for those truly deserving of my condescension.... 

AND, this is an "opinion question," so expect to see and accept other "opinions" that differ from yours on this topic.

Edited April 8 by Shilo66

[Fa****]

On 4/7/2024 at 2:08 PM, CosmicAngel said:

I ve not heared this viewpoint before.
.......' if the Sub is really the one in Control- then anything that goes wrong is surely on them?'

I de read the Sub has the Power, the Sub is in Control really.

However, you ve reminded me of if a Dom gets carried away, and does more than is Comfortable for the Sub?
As I had happen on my very first meet.

It going wrong was on the Dom.

I was nt in Control.......

Not even to remember to say Red, I was so shocked.

Probably a different Topic .......x






 

Re this, but yes, a different topic, I personally believe that both are in control and BOTH ought to have safe words. Both are responsible for gaining and relinquishing control and both ought to have the power to stop it.

I’ve heard the line many times that the sun is ultimately in control as they “give” their submission. But by the same token the Dom “gives” their dominance.

I genuinely believe that both parties ought to have safe words - although the vast majority of D types I speak with think I’m barking mad for even suggesting such a thing. 

[Th****]

29 minutes ago, FatefulDestiny said:

Re this, but yes, a different topic, I personally believe that both are in control and BOTH ought to have safe words. Both are responsible for gaining and relinquishing control and both ought to have the power to stop it.

I’ve heard the line many times that the sun is ultimately in control as they “give” their submission. But by the same token the Dom “gives” their dominance.

I genuinely believe that both parties ought to have safe words - although the vast majority of D types I speak with think I’m barking mad for even suggesting such a thing. 

All the genuine kinksters I know do but I also know a lot who don't use "safewords" they either use regular language because it's not CNC or the traffic light system. Doms/tops absolutely can call red same as they all *should* have limits and not "only the limits of my parter"

[Shilo66]

3 hours ago, FatefulDestiny said:

Re this, but yes, a different topic, I personally believe that both are in control and BOTH ought to have safe words. Both are responsible for gaining and relinquishing control and both ought to have the power to stop it.

I’ve heard the line many times that the sun is ultimately in control as they “give” their submission. But by the same token the Dom “gives” their dominance.

I genuinely believe that both parties ought to have safe words - although the vast majority of D types I speak with think I’m barking mad for even suggesting such a thing. 

I like this statement, it makes sense and it is still on topic. You see, Natural born Dominants (NDs) in "Kink Space" are more than likely to use their common sense when in a session / play / scenario / dynamic, because we enjoy having this type of power and control over someone else, BUT CRUCIALLY, we realise that the only way we're going to keep it, is if OUR SUBS ARE ENJOYING IT TOO!

To this end, we'll do everything in our power to ensure they are, because this will lead to them wanting to come back for more. 

So, in no particular order, and using spanking as an _ impact play_ example of what NDs will consider and do as an action, here's a small but not exhaustive list of the sort of things we'll naturally do:

Proper research on how to use a particular implement and where/how to strike a person when using it.

Use and adhere to safe words.

Consider our own limits about what we're prepared to do and to whom.

Periodically check during a session that our Sub is still okay to continue. Usually disguised as some form of 'session chat/break' that's still in keeping with what we're playing out so the Sub is non the wiser.

We'll naturally check beforehand with the Sub what kind of preparation they'll need/want and what type of aftercare is required, well er... afterwards... usually cuddles, hugs, water, that sort of thing. 

If during a session, in our observations we think that a Sub can't take anymore despite not using their safe words, we'll simply end things. Again, there are many ways to disguise doing so without spoiling the mood/ambience already built up.

We tend to evaluate and self-reflect after a session, so as to see what worked, what didn't, and, what can be improved. 

There's more, but you get the gist. 

Those not naturally dominant, but who are "playing" a dominant role, tend not to even consider any of the above aspects, without first being reminded and/or having to be told to do so. 

Edited April 9 by Shilo66

[Ar****]

On 4/8/2024 at 1:04 AM, ThaliaV said:

What you've described here is Top, bottom, vers. Not Dom, sub, switch.

Absolutely!

I saw the most excellent infographic regarding this oft-misunderstood aspect of BDSM/kink play only a matter of days ago which explained it excellently in very simple 101 terms.

Unfortunately I'm not certain the site will allow me to share it as an external link, but if you run a basic internet engine search on "top bottom vs dom sub douglas fir" (Douglas Fir being the creator of the image from his X/Twitter account) it should show up as a light red picture very near the top of your hits.

[Shilo66]

20 minutes ago, Aranhis said:

Absolutely!

I saw the most excellent infographic regarding this oft-misunderstood aspect of BDSM/kink play only a matter of days ago which explained it excellently in very simple 101 terms.

Unfortunately I'm not certain the site will allow me to share it as an external link, but if you run a basic internet engine search on "top bottom vs dom sub douglas fir" (Douglas Fir being the creator of the image from his X/Twitter account) it should show up as a light red picture very near the top of your hits.

Talking about Tops and Bottoms has nothing to do with the original topic question asking if a Dominant is born or made.

 

Edited April 9 by Shilo66

[Th****]

18 minutes ago, Shilo66 said:

Talking about Tops and Bottoms has nothing to do with the original topic question asking if a Dominant is born or made.

 

You're the one who brought it up you just labeled them incorrectly, and instead of listening to hear and have productive discourse. You're being your ususal argumentative self and claiming "off topic" 

[Ar****]

10 minutes ago, Shilo66 said:

Talking about Tops and Bottoms, has nothing to do with the original topic question asking if a Dominant is born or made.

You are correct, it does not.

But when somebody responds to that question with the notion that people who enjoy doing things to others are typically dominant while those who enjoy having things done to them are typically submissive - then proceeds to argue with somebody who simply makes a clarification - the community bears a responsibility to educate and help set the record straight.

The OP didn't post asking for misinformation, and that is what you presented. Many other members of the site will not know the difference and would assume just by reading what you wrote that Doms do one thing, subs do the other, and that's the way it is. And it plain isn't true - you weren't describing being Dom or sub, you were describing topping and bottoming.

If you're a Dom who has never enjoyed having their sub do certain things to you at your command/will, that's all fine and good for you but it is not representative of the community at large.

The same goes the other way round too. if you've never had a sub who has enjoyed doing certain things for/to you, then.... ?

[Shilo66]

1 hour ago, ThaliaV said:

You're the one who brought it up you just labeled them incorrectly, and instead of listening to hear and have productive discourse. You're being your ususal argumentative self and claiming "off topic" 

LOL 🤣... the feelings you have for me, are exactly the same that I have for you. 😘

It was YOU who first brought up the Tops and Bottoms... have you forgotten?...we can all read you know.

Speaking of which, you're reading that book upside down... you know the one - 'How to make friends and influence people' 😂🤣😅... and that's why it isn't working for you. 😂🤣😅

Do you seriously think that by attacking someone they'll have any interest in anything you have to say afterwards?... if so, then you also need to get a refund on that psychology course you attended. 😂🤣...

Furthermore, what an incredible sense of entitlement you have in assuming that I'd want any discourse with one such as yourself. The fact that I've never engaged you first, should have been a big clue that I have very little interest in anything you have to say or your viewpoints.

You chose to completely ignore what I had written and the context of said writing just to be belligerent... that means to be argumentative by the way....😂🤣😅

... and now, you're simply upset because I showed you up for what you were trying to do, which was to subvert a topic purely for the sole purpose of having an argument. 

So, since you brought this particular nonsense up, which has zero bearing on the subject matter, and then chose to ignore what was written in my post, the explanations and the context of it, and the fact that it directly addressed the OP's question... How does the topic of tops and bottoms have ANYTHING to do with the original question asked on this thread of whether a Dom is born or raised???...

The short answer is, it doesn't.... but I can't wait to read your convoluted desperate diatribe attempt to show it does. 😏

Edited April 9 by Shilo66

[CopperKnob]

The answer is not as black and white as the OP suggests. Its both and I'm going to use a vanilla example rather than anything to do with BDSM/kink because this is no different to the question, 'are people born bad' or in proper language, as psychopaths.
.
KCL and ICL did research on twins measuring against the markers known for psychopathy. The conclusion was all three traits of a psychopathic personality can be inherited from your parents.
.
With that said, I strongly believe that we are the sums of our experiences within the environments in which we are raised.
.
To this end, most within the CJS are not diagnosed psychopaths, they simply did not have the upbringing/parenting that they deserved, they were likely in the care system, they likely lack education and developed addictions and/or mental illness health.
.
So, whilst a good discussion, it's far too complex (and misunderstood) subject for an online discussion.

[Shilo66]

3 hours ago, Aranhis said:

You are correct, it does not.

But when somebody responds to that question with the notion that people who enjoy doing things to others are typically dominant while those who enjoy having things done to them are typically submissive - then proceeds to argue with somebody who simply makes a clarification - the community bears a responsibility to educate and help set the record straight.

The OP didn't post asking for misinformation, and that is what you presented. Many other members of the site will not know the difference and would assume just by reading what you wrote that Doms do one thing, subs do the other, and that's the way it is. And it plain isn't true - you weren't describing being Dom or sub, you were describing topping and bottoming.

If you're a Dom who has never enjoyed having their sub do certain things to you at your command/will, that's all fine and good for you but it is not representative of the community at large.

The same goes the other way round too. if you've never had a sub who has enjoyed doing certain things for/to you, then.... ?

As usual, regarding my posting, you are incorrect. I've put enough clarity in my first post below to make clear distinctions, and used the word "usually" to differentiate the fact that it's not always a Dom or Sub or Switch doing those particular roles or things. I then followed this up in my later post.... see further below. 

The fact you both choose to misunderstand is a "you" problem, not mine. 

 

On 4/8/2024 at 12:23 AM, Shilo66 said:

In the context of this Kinky Sex Arena, in my opinion, it's definitely as you say 'Doms are born, not made.'

For simplicity, to me, it's no different to someone who is naturally inclined to be either:

Heterosexual,

Bisexual, or...

Homosexual.

We all fall instinctively into one of the above mentioned groups.

* P.S. I'm fully aware of the other spectrums of LGBTQ+.... but for this explanation, I'm just keeping things simple.*

So, having mentioned the three main naturally inclined groups above, we then naturally fall into the three main sub groups below of:

Those who naturally enjoy doing things to certain others.... usually Doms.

Those who naturally enjoy having things done to them by certain others.... usually Subs.

Those who naturally enjoy either doing things to, or receiving things from, certain others... usually Switches.   

To illustrate my point, OP, your description of yourself on here in Kinky Space, is that of a Submissive, a role that comes naturally to you and one you feel most comfortable with.... It's the exact same thing for those of us taking up the title of Dominant.  A role that comes naturally to us in Kinky Space and one that we feel most comfortable with for all the above previously mentioned reasons, whether we're Straight, Gay, or Bi.

 

20 hours ago, Shilo66 said:

A Dom is the person who has control/power/authority in a D/s relationship.

A Sub is the person who has given up some amount of control/power/authority to the Dom within a D/s relationship. This, to be clear, includes "following" instructions given to them by their Dominant.... so long as those instructions/directions fall within already agreed upon parameters and criteria.... Remember, the Sub has only given up "some amount of control," not all of it.  

 

Edited April 9 by Shilo66

[Co****]

As the Original OP, I wish there wasn't this arguing. I appreciate all the comments and Thank you for the time you've taken.
I have found it interesting that, there is Domination, Submission, Topping, Bottoming.....( not a word?😄)
And surely this is how a natural Conversation flows?
Different points are brought up.
Its all Educational for me, so useful.
Thankyou.

[NAW123]

1 hour ago, CosmicAngel said:

As the Original OP, I wish there wasn't this arguing. I appreciate all the comments and Thank you for the time you've taken.
I have found it interesting that, there is Domination, Submission, Topping, Bottoming.....( not a word?😄)
And surely this is how a natural Conversation flows?
Different points are brought up.
Its all Educational for me, so useful.
Thankyou.

Nicely put, everyone has their own views and has the right to express them without malice towards another. 

[FETMOD-BD]

There seems to be accusations and condescending comments on this thread!

I've been having a nice day, the sun is shining, the birds are singing and I'm in a good mood......
lets not spoil it!

[CopperKnob]

1 minute ago, FETMOD-BD said:

There seems to be accusations and condescending comments on this thread!

I've been having a nice day, the sun is shining, the birds are singing and I'm in a good mood......
lets not spoil it!

Where are you? Send the sun this way. Suffolk is not its usual sunny self!!

[Hy****]

In the field of sociology, the rule or behavior across demographics is such: “We only have two provable (or more specifically, non-falsifiable) variables what it comes to human behavior: socialization and genetics, and if you claim it’s the second, you better fucking be able to prove it.

Studies have been done about ***/trauma being causaul to kink interests, and it has fairly definitively been ruled out. One night in a standard BDSM is all the time you need to figure out that the marker of sustained BDSM interest has much more to do with neurodiversity. In short, kink interests is innate, not taught.

I just answered a question in another forum about what makes a Dom so I’m not going to comb it over here others than to say that this post has huge “TWUE” Dom energy and misses the mark completely about the dialectic of how power roles are assumed.

[mad-potato72]

I have wondered why I've been a virgin all these years. I've known I'm a sub for the longest time. Sometimes I wonder if I'm into vanilla sex.

What I do know is that I would get more pleasure by pleasing her the dom. I've had a foot fetish for a long time but I like to explore other avenue

of bdsm. I hope I making sense not going off topic. I want to earn the pleasure she would let me have. I remember one time me and some other

marines met some girl at the e club and took her back to the barracks. Some of the others were taking turns having consensual sex, then it was

my turn, I couldn't do it. It just didn't feel right. Thats something I always felt is sacred. I've just always had my reservations about regular sex. I don't

like oral unless I was giving it to her and pleasing her. I'm just trying to make sense of what I am what I can offer a Dom lady.

[DemonCandy]

Wednesday at 01:57 PM, Hyrrolar said:

In the field of sociology, the rule or behavior across demographics is such: “We only have two provable (or more specifically, non-falsifiable) variables what it comes to human behavior: socialization and genetics, and if you claim it’s the second, you better fucking be able to prove it.

Studies have been done about ***/trauma being causaul to kink interests, and it has fairly definitively been ruled out. One night in a standard BDSM is all the time you need to figure out that the marker of sustained BDSM interest has much more to do with neurodiversity. In short, kink interests is innate, not taught.

I just answered a question in another forum about what makes a Dom so I’m not going to comb it over here others than to say that this post has huge “TWUE” Dom energy and misses the mark completely about the dialectic of how power roles are assumed.

Shush. You can say whatever you want but there is no need to be rude.

[mad-potato72]

How was i being rude

[mad-potato72]

Never mind I thought you were talking to me have to get used to this

[DemonCandy]

19 minutes ago, mad-potato72 said:

Never mind I thought you were talking to me have to get used to this

Its k. I get it. And thanks for understanding it was your mistake.

[mad-potato72]

👍

[onyx_aurum78]

I wonder if this sounds like the age-old sociology question of nature vs nurture. From my newbie perspective, all of us can express dominant or submissive behaviour. Therefore I believe both are innate, but one has to choose to do so, in line with what they are comfortable with. Many of us have been behaving with dominant expressions for so long that we tend to think that we are only that way.

When I look at the field of epigenetics, the central theme is it is our perception of and interaction with the environment that informs the genes that are expressed and passed down. I'm going to put on a limb and say that most behaviour expressions are learned through conditioning to the environment as well.

With all that being said, I think one can be made dominant as well as born dominant.