Too submissive to make safe decisions.

[Ky****]

@LazyPiratesBounty can I ask about how that works when doing a demo? in private you both know that stop doesn't mean stop it just means change the implement, but how do you convey to those watching that this is special to your dynamic with Pirate and it doesn't mean a sub who says stop does not mean stop but please change from cane to flogger etc.?

[Deleted Member]

49 minutes ago, lil-monster said:

I've had a lot of shit happen to me in the beginning of my journey as a submissive. I was very very naive and didn't know where to go ect as I suffered with depression and anxiety for years I was in an abusive relationship for a while so I guess its what I was use to, to let guys find that bit of something they could use to get in my head and break me down cause of my mental health I saw no different cause my brain was telling me it was normal. I've had a guy from here who stole my pics and used them on another adult site all cause I dumped him for getting stalkerish with me. And had someone groom me also to the point he stole a load of *** from me cause he said I was his submissive I should hand over my cards cause he'd look after me ect 🤷‍♀️🙄 silly I know but it's what they do they get inside your head when your mental health is low and twist you to believe everything they say. Also had one Dom go pass my safeword to the point I was bruised and hurt emotionally I left the BDSM scene for 6 months. 

I've now found my Sir who has shown me the true meaning of a real Dom and has shown me that safewords are there for a reason and that once I say it, he will stop. 

But I think we need to get these stories out to people/new subs to help them see that there is light at the end of the tunnel and to read up as much as they can even down to asking questions to someone they can trust i.e a mentor of some sort. 

No not silly Lil.You have nothig to be ashamed about what is shameful is that there are men like this,make no mistakeI'm far from perfect and have caused *** myself,i freely admit that but I try to learn from it,it shames me that I have upset another soul and can bother me for months afterwards.  Some just have zero empathy and actually get their kicks from hurting others in a deeply emotional way.Thats why bravery and courage that both you and LPB have shown is so important,in the hope others may read this and it may in some way help armour them against the worst this scene has to offer.

[Si****]

As a dom who's still learning all i can really say is be there for ur friend. I knew a sub like her who allowed a "dom" to control everything. Including her ***. Last we messaged she was trying to move to a different state to get away from him.

[Wo****]

1 hour ago, Kymi said:

@LazyPiratesBounty can I ask about how that works when doing a demo? in private you both know that stop doesn't mean stop it just means change the implement, but how do you convey to those watching that this is special to your dynamic with Pirate and it doesn't mean a sub who says stop does not mean stop but please change from cane to flogger etc.?

Pirate tells them, explains it's a rapport we have and it's something that kinda developed over time.

That's why I think demos are important because they show how a dynamic works as well as the actual session.

[Do****]

All too common I think. Not heard of a story this bad before but, especially from the younger more impressionable ladies, they’ve told me things like “yeah my ex was nasty” or politely “not a nice person.”
To which I reply these are not Doms, these are control freaks with bullying issues. Many have hate issues towards women, stay well away from those guys. A real Dom will also care about you and get to know you and your limits, building trust, before turning to the dominant side.

[ey****]

1 hour ago, Kymi said:

oops, fallen for that one myself, defn need to learn to stop rising to it

how the pattern goes

op: "I'm into *rather common fetish* but it's hard to find anyone into it?"

woman: "I'm into it"

op: *messages woman*

woman : *not interested*

op : "It's so hard to get a conversation going, where are all the real women?"

another woman : "We're here, you have to find us"

op : *messages*

so on

somewhere within this, someone will message saying she will help for a tribute 

op : "why do all the women want ***?"

repeat infinity 

[cautiousswitch]

The question of whether there is such a thing as being "too submissive" starts to get into the realm of mental health which most of us are not qualified to delve into.  When people start thinking that being submissive means they get no rights, limits, or expectation of consent then they are crossing the line between healthy kink and mental problems and most of us would agree that it is too submissive.

When the scammers message me asking if I want to be their slave I ask what they expect from their slave.  The correct answer should include some question about my limits otherwise I discount them as not being real dommes.  In your conversations with your friend did she ever mention discussing limits with this dom? If not then starting that conversation may be the first step towards getting her to break it off with him (you never said whether she was still seeing him or not but I sort of get the impression that she is).

The problem with limits is that there is a whole lot of stuff going on out there and very few of us have heard of everything.  I'm sure that given time someone can think of something that is not on a limit list because the sub just hasn't thought about it.  A good dom/me has  pretty good idea of which of their kinks are well known and which aren't and will discuss the less common ones with a sub before trying them.  From what you've described, it's possible that your friend has a limits list and the dom may have tried springing something new on her without allowing discussion.

When you said that you tried to get her to start a thread it raises the question does she have an account here? If so then perhaps the best help you can give her is to try and steer her towards friendships with people who can show her what is wrong with her situation.  If you try this you are not looking for people who aren't going to just start lecturing her but who are in a more healthy D/s relationship and allow her to see by example that your point of view is shared.  It would have to be people who are not going to try to *** the issue, but will talk to her like they would any other person until the conversation naturally turns to the topic of kink.

[ne****]

Thank you for helping this lass out: you did the right thing. The lass may suffer from very low self-esteem, and there are courses for that.

[Deleted Member]

Honestly you are absolutely right. I too have had the unfortunate experience of seeing a sub friend meet a piece of human filth and that's putting it lightly.
The kink community is often a lovely place but sadly it is also prime for real predators. Actually dangerous individuals who aren't so much dangerous because they don't care about affecting people's mental health. It's that they actively seek to do so as they get a sick sense of joy and control. Put simply it's *** of the worst kind.
Don't be put off by people who throw the term "white knight" at you as you have saved a person's sanity and possibly their life. What it comes down to is we all have to help look out for each other here.
Their are some real monsters in sheep's clothing out there and they won't stop anytime soon I'm afraid. All we can do is spread awareness and have open conversations like this. Aswell as call out dangerous behaviour like you have done and of course be there to listen when people need help or advice.

[Deleted Member]

2 hours ago, MaskedDom said:

Don't be put off by people who throw the term "white knight" at you as you have saved a person's sanity and possibly their life.

People who shame you with the "white knight" in cases like this are just trying to discourage others from saving the victim. None of the predators want their prey being taken from them.

[Vandalslut]

14 hours ago, Donnykinkster said:

Now I've been accused before of trying to play the "knight in shining armour" when I've tried to understand certain things but in this instance i feel its the duty of any decent human being to intervene and protect those who are weak from those who have zero moral code.

The world needs more Sir Galahads, Donnykinkster - there's no such thing as too many knights in shining armour.  I, like others here, am so very, very grateful that you could be there for this poor girl and I agree we need to intervene where appropriate (and intervene appropriately) and hopefully not only protect the weak, but the naive - the submissives who blithely declare themselves 'up for anything, no limits!' worry me a great deal. I hope she can bring herself to start a discussion on this and find supportive friends in a safe community. I'm sure you've convinced her that she's done nothing wrong; and you've explained that arse she encountered is not a Dom by any definition. Does she need any other practical help - counselling, or do the police need to be involved? Will she be able to walk away or do you know if he'll be the type who'll stalk her, desperate to hang on to her because he had such a good time? Sadly, they are out there, and not even hiding - the law has 50 shades of grey areas when it comes to BDSM and these ugly Dom/mes know they can get away with anything short of ***. 

It's a privilege to 'know' you,  to have you as a member on this site and as a member of the human race, and we'll gladly do what we can as well to bring awareness to those new to the Scene.

 

12 hours ago, LazyPiratesBounty said:

I still feel.... ashamed i guess. Even though i know it wasn't my fault. I wasn't in a healthy headspace. Looking back i can see how and where he played on my vulnerabilities, how he groomed me.

 Don't be ashamed, Bounty.  Be proud that you're in a space now where you can tell the story and if your telling it saves just one other soul from such horrors, you've done more than many. That f***head vampire you encountered played on the vulnerability EVERYONE has - we all want to be liked, desired, loved. When we're in a fragile emotional state, when our self confidence has just taken a hiding, we're doubly ***. Well done, Sis.

[cautiousswitch]

On the white knight side of things, it is used as a term of derision for someone who tries to substitute themselves for a real working solution.  This is either bad for the person they are trying to help as they don;t get the real help they need, bad for the knight as they have taken on an obligation that they aren't prepared to handle, and their sense of duty prevents them from getting out of the situation, or a combination of both of those.

You are showing sympathy and support while advising her to talk to other people about the situation.  If you find that she is constantly coming to you for emotional support then you may be crossing into white knight territory and it may be better if you pull back until she is willing to talk to others about it.  It doesn't sound like you've gone there yet though.

[Deleted Member]

2 hours ago, cautiousswitch said:

On the white knight side of things, it is used as a term of derision for someone who tries to substitute themselves for a real working solution.  This is either bad for the person they are trying to help as they don;t get the real help they need, bad for the knight as they have taken on an obligation that they aren't prepared to handle, and their sense of duty prevents them from getting out of the situation, or a combination of both of those. 

That's a really valuable perspective @cautiousswitch. I've met some white knights in my time and have been a white knight myself once or twice. It can be hard to extricate yourself without feeling like you're abandoning the person who is struggling. 

Maybe when someone says that they're really OK, and they don't need help, that's when the knight should step back?  

[Mo****]

From everything I have read so far, I see, either true Doms who are repulsed by the deeds of this one particular arsehole, or the true confessions of submissives who have bravely admitted to actions in their past.  Bravo to you all for having the gumption to stand up and highlight the things that are not right with this kinky life.

I keep telling newbies to this life that there are real dangers, not just physical, if you select the wrong dominant or engage in activities that have not been properly risk assessed, or by simply rushing in.  There are the mental and emotional dangers as well, which if not addressed can lead to far worse things, not just for the sub, but perhaps the sub's family members if grooming is used, or to financial ruin.  And where we can, we should be trying to weed these Sharks/Rogues from our midst.  Difficult I know, but if we can identify them, then make a point of talking with those that they have befriended, and advising them.  Some may take notice, some may not, but if we can at least save one or two, isn't this better than watching far more be destroyed.

As a true Dom, we have to get inside the heads of our submissives in order to understand their emotions, desires and needs.  We need to almost know what they want before they really know and understand themselves.  But we can and should, along the way, give them a safe environment to reside in, either physically or mentally/emotionally, we should show them that we care for and understand them, their desires/needs. and especially their limits.  If we want someone to fully submit and give us that control, we have to show them that they matter, that they're special.   And we should NEVER stop reinforcing the positives that they have.  To do differently, is doing them an injustice.

I have spoken to many newbies over the years, and tried to guide and advise.  Some I have had success with, some I haven't, but these are just the ones I know of, and they are only part of the overall number.  My success rate may be higher, but that I can only hope for.  On a daily basis, I check the newbies to this site, and have seen a large rate of under 23s come here.  That is scary, because for a lot of them, they know nothing much about the depths that this life can descend to, and generally with their lack of life experiences, they don't know and they believe this is normal.  Hopefully, they will read topics like this in the forum, as part of their research, and thus make decisions accordingly.

 

As an aside to this last paragraph, I have also noticed a lot of FAKES and possible scammers with multiple profiles cropping up.  These people can make it difficult to try and advise newbies on the dangers, simply by being here and flooding the community.

 

Once again to everyone who has commented.  BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deleted Member]

There are some very sick people out there, obviously. Some are sicko control freaks who will freely *** others for their own selfish gain and some are evidently sick in their mental health, having low self esteem and self worth, which makes them a prime target for ***.

And then there are those, like me, who “just want to have some fun”. No hang ups, no baggage, no stress, no issues, just liberating, mind and soul freeing shared experiences between two (or more) people who just want to escape mundanity for a while and get high on the endorphins of mutual pleasure.

It is certainly my abundant experience that being respectful of each other’s wishes, fantasies, limits and desires, like minded, kinky and adventurous playmates can give to each other the time of their lives, mind blowing experiences to remember and treasure for a lifetime...

[ey****]

8 hours ago, cautiousswitch said:

On the white knight side of things, it is used as a term of derision for someone who tries to substitute themselves for a real working solution

White Knighting is something that's, interesting.   It's a bit of a problem when someone is only doing actions to get noticed - but - there's people who get accused of it by folk trying to silence them.

It's something I sometimes worry as coming across as - it's about getting the balance.

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, eyemblacksheep said:

White Knighting is something that's, interesting.   It's a bit of a problem when someone is only doing actions to get noticed - but - there's people who get accused of it by folk trying to silence them.

It's something I sometimes worry as coming across as - it's about getting the balance.

Eyem, you can be my White Knight. I think you know the difference. 

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, eyemblacksheep said:

White Knighting is something that's, interesting.   It's a bit of a problem when someone is only doing actions to get noticed - but - there's people who get accused of it by folk trying to silence them.

It's something I sometimes worry as coming across as - it's about getting the balance.

It's something I've always been guilty of I'm afraid, not much angers me but bullies however do, You could punch me in the face and there is a chance I won't respond, punch the timid kid and I will be straight on you. I did ask her to post and totally understood her hesitation, it's a serious issue and quite frankly caught me by surprise and has also taught me a couple of things about human nature and those who move among us. She has read all these comments and I feel they have been a great help for her.

[ey****]

1 hour ago, MsWhiteRose said:

Eyem, you can be my White Knight. I think you know the difference. 

deal <3

[Ky****]

@Donnykinkster by the sound of that last comment you're not guilty of this white knighting thing, what you describe is stepping in to help someone perhaps at genuine risk to yourself, which is not what's being described, maybe we should use White Knight for those genuinely riding to the rescue and lower case for the others

[J_****]

On 4/20/2020 at 8:20 AM, Donnykinkster said:

some submissives when in sub space don't have the ability to say no even though deep down they know it's just all wrong, red flags flying high.

For some subs it doesn't take subspace to not be able to see the red flags.  And I have deliberately phrased it this way because for some of us the *** and manipulation has been a feature for so long that it becomes "normal".  And as much as this sounds like a horrifying concept to you and others who are decent human beings, the reality is that it is so deeply ingrained that when you (Knights in shining armour, if you will) react with indignance and anger on our behalf it's sometimes (often) genuinely baffling.  

I for one am grateful on so many levels that you are the kind of Dom that protects others despite not being in a dynamic.  I personally have learned  so much from you... invaluable lessons that I never should have had to learn in the first place.  I can remember from one of our first phone conversations you were talking about the way that things SHOULD play out... from vetting to meeting in a safe public space...how the Dom should earn my trust and respect my boundaries, what negotiation should occur, etc.  I listened with interest as you said all this stuff that sounded like a completely foreign concept to me and then you finished with, "But I don't need to tell you.  You know this.".  

But I didn't know.  I had no clue!  And I think I genuinely shocked you when I told you as much.  I've known many people in the lifestyle that have explained the concept of boundaries and how important it is to discuss them in advance, etc.  I've been involved with a few.  But not one discussed MY boundaries.  Nobody negotiated with me despite lecturing me themselves about the importance of respect.  Put simply, loads of people talk the talk but I've never been involved with anyone who walked the walk.

I said this last night to a guy who I've been talking with for just over a month when we were discussing this post.  He's now only the second person in my 44 years on this planet to tell me that they felt physically sick from anger and indignation in response to hearing about my personal journey.  You were the first.  And both times I was taken aback by it.  It's not that I can't see the wrong in what I've experienced.  It's just that I've experienced it so often that it has become the norm.

 

But it's through conversations with folks like you that is slowly....inch by inch... helping me to see right from wrong.  The indignation of others on my behalf always has the same series of reactions:  First...hilarity.  I know this may sound strange, but I always initially react with an urge to laugh.  I think it's nervous laughter, if I'm honest... because when someone says, "How can they not see this is wrong?" in reference to the ***r, it always makes me feel guilty for not seeing it's wrong (as a victim).

This is then quickly followed by my own indignation and defensiveness... because I'm a strong and independent woman.  Not a "victim"!!!! Because admitting that would mean admitting weakness and naivety.  And that leads to ***.  Because why couldn't I see it?  Something so obvious that it's second nature to most people...yet it wasn't even on my radar.  

 

Then your words sink in and I start to see things from your perspective.  The horror, the anger, the indignation and disgust.  This always has two effects.  The first is a feeling of guilt that my story has negatively affected someone else just from hearing it.  I know it's ridiculous.  But that's just how it is.  It's been ingrained in me to feel guilty first, then find out what I'm supposed to feel guilty about later.

 

Eventually it has the effect of making me raise the bar one notch higher.  And over time, little by little, through posts like this one and conversations with true gentlemen I learn and grow and the veil slowly lifts until I can see my worth.  

Have patience with your friend.  I know you will.  But also cut yourself a break.  People who throw the "Knight in shining armour" label around like it's a bad thing are normally the kind of arrogant c***s that folks need rescuing from.  So stay on that charger and keep on rescuing the damsels in distress.  Because each act of kindness and support slowly but surely rebalances the scales of self worth for those who need it. xXx

[Deleted Member]

Thank you @J_Darkmoonfor those words, they mean more than you may realise. If I've made even a small.positive difference in your world then I'm a happy man 😊 and it's good to hear you see the truth of what we as "Dom" should be. All a learning experience and that includes me, I make mistakes but do try to take the positives from it if I can and become better, not just a better "Dom" but a better man.

[Mo****]

1 hour ago, J_Darkmoon said:

For some subs it doesn't take subspace to not be able to see the red flags.  And I have deliberately phrased it this way because for some of us the *** and manipulation has been a feature for so long that it becomes "normal".  And as much as this sounds like a horrifying concept to you and others who are decent human beings, the reality is that it is so deeply ingrained that when you (Knights in shining armour, if you will) react with indignance and anger on our behalf it's sometimes (often) genuinely baffling.  

I for one am grateful on so many levels that you are the kind of Dom that protects others despite not being in a dynamic.  I personally have learned  so much from you... invaluable lessons that I never should have had to learn in the first place.  I can remember from one of our first phone conversations you were talking about the way that things SHOULD play out... from vetting to meeting in a safe public space...how the Dom should earn my trust and respect my boundaries, what negotiation should occur, etc.  I listened with interest as you said all this stuff that sounded like a completely foreign concept to me and then you finished with, "But I don't need to tell you.  You know this.".  

But I didn't know.  I had no clue!  And I think I genuinely shocked you when I told you as much.  I've known many people in the lifestyle that have explained the concept of boundaries and how important it is to discuss them in advance, etc.  I've been involved with a few.  But not one discussed MY boundaries.  Nobody negotiated with me despite lecturing me themselves about the importance of respect.  Put simply, loads of people talk the talk but I've never been involved with anyone who walked the walk.

I said this last night to a guy who I've been talking with for just over a month when we were discussing this post.  He's now only the second person in my 44 years on this planet to tell me that they felt physically sick from anger and indignation in response to hearing about my personal journey.  You were the first.  And both times I was taken aback by it.  It's not that I can't see the wrong in what I've experienced.  It's just that I've experienced it so often that it has become the norm.

 

But it's through conversations with folks like you that is slowly....inch by inch... helping me to see right from wrong.  The indignation of others on my behalf always has the same series of reactions:  First...hilarity.  I know this may sound strange, but I always initially react with an urge to laugh.  I think it's nervous laughter, if I'm honest... because when someone says, "How can they not see this is wrong?" in reference to the ***r, it always makes me feel guilty for not seeing it's wrong (as a victim).

This is then quickly followed by my own indignation and defensiveness... because I'm a strong and independent woman.  Not a "victim"!!!! Because admitting that would mean admitting weakness and naivety.  And that leads to ***.  Because why couldn't I see it?  Something so obvious that it's second nature to most people...yet it wasn't even on my radar.  

 

Then your words sink in and I start to see things from your perspective.  The horror, the anger, the indignation and disgust.  This always has two effects.  The first is a feeling of guilt that my story has negatively affected someone else just from hearing it.  I know it's ridiculous.  But that's just how it is.  It's been ingrained in me to feel guilty first, then find out what I'm supposed to feel guilty about later.

 

Eventually it has the effect of making me raise the bar one notch higher.  And over time, little by little, through posts like this one and conversations with true gentlemen I learn and grow and the veil slowly lifts until I can see my worth.  

Have patience with your friend.  I know you will.  But also cut yourself a break.  People who throw the "Knight in shining armour" label around like it's a bad thing are normally the kind of arrogant c***s that folks need rescuing from.  So stay on that charger and keep on rescuing the damsels in distress.  Because each act of kindness and support slowly but surely rebalances the scales of self worth for those who need it. xXx

J_Darkmoon, for what you have written you should be congratulated.  YOUR strength in admitting these things shows your well on your way to being a much stronger and wiser person.  We all make mistakes, simply because we are human, and it is what we do with acknowledging those things, that gives us a better chance for a more balanced future, one where limits are adhered to, where RESPECT is given and shown, where happiness and contentment are attained.  This life shouldn't be bad or hard, it should, with the help of our partners, be fun and exciting and happy.

These so called doms who don't treat their subs in the right way, are nothing but Rogues who care for their own satisfaction more than the well being of another human being.  They are nothing but shit in my eyes.  As a dominant, I am responsible for a hell of a lot with regard to my sub.  Her well being, her safety, her security, and her health and mental and emotional levels.  All of this can be a lot of hard work at times, but if you have the right partner, with whom your honest and you use open communication, then there shouldn't be a problem that the partnership can't overcome.

 

YOUR also right in what you say about Donny.  Thank god for guys like him and others who have the guts and integrity and compassion, to stand up for those that can't stand up for themselves.  If only this life had more members like him in it, there would be far less 'victims'.  We should all try and educate others where possible.

 

Donnykinkster, your a 'White Knight' all right.  I just wish that there were more guys around like you mate. 

[Ky****]

from what I've been reading on here, and other threads, I'm starting to ask questions of people in my life, it would have been safer if I'd known about this site long ago, thanks to all

[Mo****]

26 minutes ago, Kymi said:

from what I've been reading on here, and other threads, I'm starting to ask questions of people in my life, it would have been safer if I'd known about this site long ago, thanks to all

Kymi people come into this life, for all the right reasons (for THEM), but the way they come into it and with who is the problem.  As so many are finding out, this life does have some real and present dangers to it, not just in the form of marks, but emotionally, and even financially.  We should ALL be trying to educate others, through such things as blog posts, articles, munches and general messaging.  No ONE person has all the answers but when enough of us are all saying the same thing, then the newbies and not so newbies, will take notice, hopefully.