"Realistic" Restraints for a Physically Powerful Sub but Practised Safely?

[Deleted Member]

So in the femdom forum I was talking about the possibility for a petite domme to restrain a physically well-endowed male sub and came up with the idea that she could use a taser, which everyone said was a bad idea because it could potentially be lethal - e.g. if the sub were to fall on a hard surface and crack his skull, or if he could end up with a heart attack. (By the way I should put a footnote here that I am assuming a private session where the domme and sub have already discussed boundaries, safety words, etc., neither are psychologically *** and it's something they both particularly desire to do).

Anyway, I thought this post would be better made in the BDSM forum because we could also have a situation where a well-endowed female grappler could want to explore her submissive side but with a weaker male dom. We could have some fake wrestling where the submissive deliberately loses to the dominant but it occurred to me that it wouldn't be as exciting if there wasn't that realistic submissive/dominant dynamic, i.e. where the submissive genuinely loses physical control and could only put a halt to the session by communicating a withdrawal of consent. Obviously a lot of trust would have to be involved.

So some other ideas came up in that other thread, like for instance giving the dominant a cattle prod to restrain an unbound submissive but I don't know if that would be powerful enough. Also it was suggested the submissive could wear a straight jacket, or have their arms tied behind their back but that would also make it a situation where the sub had already relinquished some control. Besides I don't think there is enough room to escape that way which could take away from the challenge.

I thought also that for the femdom scenario where a male sub was significantly more powerful than the female domme, we could introduce rules where the domme is allowed to use physical strikes and the sub is only permitted to try and escape. Or perhaps have the submissive enter a darkened booby trapped room rigged by the dominant but they would have to be particularly skilled in this.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?

[ey****]

I think...

Whilst exceptions apply - men are generally usually going to be physically stronger.  Obviously, as I say, exceptions apply - for example your trained wrestlers so on.

There's a general saying that submission should be given freely. You shouldn't have to *** or beat it out of them.  

Of course there can be fun with the overpowering - but that is again, usually better with natural strength.  

[Ky****]

in femdomme wrestling the rule is always the male never fights back, is this similar? essentially this scenario must be a role playing one, if your sub is much stronger then it is difficult to subdue them unless they agree without risk of damage

[ey****]

Just now, Kymi said:

in femdomme wrestling the rule is always the male never fights back

what rule is that  

So. I've done mixed wrestling and been to mixed wrestling events.  There are kinda rules but "male never fights back" isn't one of them.   Unless it's against Ina Black - she's so strong you don't get a chance to fight back

[Ky****]

@eyemblacksheep it was my understanding that with pro domes femdomme 'wrestling' the sub is not allowed to fight back.  Indeed this has been stated in the adverts.  I'm not aware of what u r referring to so I was restricting my comment to something I thought relevant to the op.

The stated problem was how to restrain a sub who is far stronger safely.  This is why the sub is not allowed to fight back.  In part to protect the domme, in part to maintain the illusion of power in this situation.  In certain circumstances it may also be to protect the sub, the only way to restrain a far stronger sub is to use  superior technique and if the sub lacks any training this can cause serious *** usually joint dislocations when they try to power out of a hold in the wrong way and their joint pops.  So in my opinion the only safe option here is to role play the scenario with the sub not fighting back, based on over 40 years of grappling experience some of it at the highest level-i.e. against Olympic competitors.

btw never heard of this mixed wrestling, although I've obviously trained against women and still train against men although I haven't transitioned far enough for them to know its mixed lol, is this a fetish thing or a sporting one? curious Kymi

[Wo****]

7 minutes ago, Kymi said:

although I haven't transitioned far enough for them to know its mixed

😆😆😆😆😆😆

Sorry but that really tickled me..

 

[Ky****]

47 minutes ago, LazyPiratesBounty said:

😆😆😆😆😆😆

Sorry but that really tickled me..

 

THAT WAS MY HOPE LOL GLAD IT HAD THAT EFFECT

[Deleted Member]

7 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

There's a general saying that submission should be given freely. You shouldn't have to *** or beat it out of them.  

I agree submission should be given freely, I just happen to be imagining a situation where a submissive freely consents to a realistic scenario where they would be overpowered. They  could for example use a safety word to bring it to a halt.

 

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Of course there can be fun with the overpowering - but that is again, usually better with natural strength.  

It is but a shame if you're naturally more physically endowed than the dominant because then you won't be overpowered in a consensual but genuine sense.

[Deleted Member]

6 hours ago, Kymi said:

in femdomme wrestling the rule is always the male never fights back, is this similar? essentially this scenario must be a role playing one, if your sub is much stronger then it is difficult to subdue them unless they agree without risk of damage

Not fighting back is essential because a strong male could hurt most dommes, especially with physical strikes. But it takes away from the fantasy if they're not allowed to even try and pin or escape.

[Ky****]

27 minutes ago, BlushingFlush said:

Not fighting back is essential because a strong male could hurt most dommes, especially with physical strikes. But it takes away from the fantasy if they're not allowed to even try and pin or escape.

that's part of the consensual aspect, the sub doesn't need to lie there but does need to not make serious attempts to escape, and by fighting back I wasn't thinking of strikes but wrestling moves which is how most injuries occur, its actually a lot easier to control a physical strike to prevent *** than it is to control wrestling situations in this regard, so basically to me its a case of being the same as other sub dom games, the resistance must be simulated not real-just as the punishments are never taken too far

[Deleted Member]

Just now, Kymi said:

that's part of the consensual aspect, the sub doesn't need to lie there but does need to not make serious attempts to escape, and by fighting back I wasn't thinking of strikes but wrestling moves which is how most injuries occur, its actually a lot easier to control a physical strike to prevent *** than it is to control wrestling situations in this regard, so basically to me its a case of being the same as other sub dom games, the resistance must be simulated not real-just as the punishments are never taken too far

It is consensual but removes the realistic aspect. If I gave permission to a dominant to use chloroform or a cattleprod, in my view it would still be consensual.

Wrestling is highly dangerous, brazilian jiu-jitsu is more natural for the body ;-)

[Ky****]

2 minutes ago, BlushingFlush said:

It is consensual but removes the realistic aspect. If I gave permission to a dominant to use chloroform or a cattleprod, in my view it would still be consensual.

Wrestling is highly dangerous, brazilian jiu-jitsu is more natural for the body ;-)

personally I'd regard a cattle prod as less dangerous, the problem with both wrestling & BJJ in fetish play is the capacity to accidentally inflict damage, I've broken someone's neck and have only been stopped from breaking the spine lower down because a 3rd party stopped the bout, not really what we're after, btw Kymi is 5th dan Jiu jutsu, 2nd dan Judo which may affect her views on why femdomme wrestling should be non competitive

[Deleted Member]

7 minutes ago, Kymi said:

personally I'd regard a cattle prod as less dangerous, the problem with both wrestling & BJJ in fetish play is the capacity to accidentally inflict damage, I've broken someone's neck and have only been stopped from breaking the spine lower down because a 3rd party stopped the bout, not really what we're after, btw Kymi is 5th dan Jiu jutsu, 2nd dan Judo which may affect her views on why femdomme wrestling should be non competitive

You've broken someone's neck!? I'm not really envisioning a situation where an average male submissive tries to escape a pro Olympic wrestler - if that was the case there wouldn't be need for anything complicated, she'd just have to be a little restrained as she could easily control him. If it was a male dom tasked with restraining a pro Olympic female wrestler, he would probably be the ones that would need a cattleprod in a consensual dynamic. Definitely can't have situations where pro Olympic female wrestlers & judokas could paralyse someone trying to get involved with more consensual roleplay. But those situations your describing would be extremely rare as the vast majority of people don't have that level of ability. I personally would never grapple with a pro Olympic wrestler or judoka.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Deleted Member

[Ky****]

@BlushingFlush that's probably why Kymi has certain reservations, especially since she used to be male so wouldn't have grappled as the sub, mind you I've also seen 2 novices cause each other severe damage through inexperience, pressure applied the wrong way and ouch, and not the good ouch that comes from a flogger across the my bum,

so Kymi is actually thinking more of the two novices situation, where a male sub with no training is wrestling with a dominatrix who also has little to no training and is substantially weaker, although that said its not that easy if the woman is very well trained to subdue a far larger and stronger opponent without damaging them, in my case I can subdue a lighter opponent without damaging them by applying the hold with technique but also backing it up with strength so it doesn't have to be cranked on fully, its the bigger ones that get hurt because then I can't hold back if they are going to fight back for real so hold goes on and if opponent gets too macho they get hurt

I suppose that's one of my trigger points 

[Deleted Member]

Just now, Kymi said:

@BlushingFlush that's probably why Kymi has certain reservations, especially since she used to be male so wouldn't have grappled as the sub, mind you I've also seen 2 novices cause each other severe damage through inexperience, pressure applied the wrong way

Yeah, obviously some kind of moderation has to be applied, that's why realistic is in speech marks in the title and safety is strongly emphasised as it always has to come first. Still I'm interested to see how far you could go with the concept and still be safe.

This is a couple's account?

 

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so Kymi is actually thinking more of the two novices situation, where a male sub with no training is wrestling with a dominatrix who also has little to no training and is substantially weaker

Right so in that situation the domme is no expert in grappling, she has to subdue a larger, stronger opponent (I'm assuming) so what measures could she take to safely assume that. Personally I like the idea of a non-lethal booby trap room - the sub walks into a dark room with trip wires, and set-ups designed to partially restrain them. Then the domme who designed the room or knows the rooms designs can walk in with night vision goggles or some such and completely restrain the sub.

 

Quote

although that said its not that easy if the woman is very well trained to subdue a far larger and stronger opponent without damaging them, in my case I can subdue a lighter opponent without damaging them by applying the hold with technique but also backing it up with strength so it doesn't have to be cranked on fully, its the bigger ones that get hurt because then I can't hold back if they are going to fight back for real so hold goes on and if opponent gets too macho they get hurt

Yeah, an overly aggressive and physically larger/more powerful novice is likely to get hurt against a well experienced grappler.

[ey****]

7 hours ago, Kymi said:

it was my understanding that with pro domes femdomme 'wrestling' the sub is not allowed to fight back.  Indeed this has been stated in the adverts. 

It depends.  Certainly, yeah, I've been in and seen matches where the male could fight back (if they got chance, ha!) but a lot depends on the level of strength and training of the other person.  Some Ladies do specify non-competitive or semi-competitive.   That said, there was one Lady (where the match ended 0-0) I didn't fight back because I felt I really could overpower her (that and I liked that she spent a lot of time with her feet in my face) - but there's one other person I do fight back with.  But she is a lot tougher than me. She thought I was letting her win (our first match was a 10 minute match she won 1-0, but she did spend a lot of time toying with me.  Our second match was a 5 minute she won 3-0, but actually, I'd picked up an *** in an earlier match, which sounds like an excuse - but, well, Ina did beat me 13-0) 

[Ky****]

@eyemblacksheep that sounds fun, I've heard of Ina Black through Sambo but didn't know she was a dominatrix

[ey****]

2 hours ago, Kymi said:

@eyemblacksheep that sounds fun, I've heard of Ina Black through Sambo but didn't know she was a dominatrix

I don't think she is.  But she's involved in a Wrestling event - and she runs a clip store which is mostly wrestling and face sitting.  There are photos (and a little piece of video footage) exist of when I grappled with her.

[re****]

I'm going to come at this from a slightly different perspective. I adore the struggle between two people for who will achieve power, for me that is a very primal want and need.

 

I'm going to use my Aikido training as an example, in Aikdio we are taught there is a flow between the two partners. One, controls the others body with the use of wrist/shoulder locks, the tension in the joints is very dangerous. You could cause anything from a strain to tearing a tendon if its resisted. So the Uke, the bottom partner follows through allowing themselves to be taken down. Because the alternative is *** and/or *** which is undesirable. 

 

It's not dissimilar to what happens in a scenario between participants who are engaging in an apparent struggle for control. The bottom should assert themselves but also follow the lead of the Top in this instance. For a small, significantly weaker person such as myself against any number of my past partners, the passive resistance doesn't detract from things. Part of it is mental, the energy being created by asserting mental and emotional dominance which the bottom is responding to is no less a win. Furthermore, tactics such as sexual distraction might be fair game, if they respond to say hair pulling or biting, they may temporarily forget to resist and surrender to that. If you pull my hair, the moment you do, I'm going to "follow" my body will automatically move to keep the tension/position in a way that isn't harmful to me and if i resist that I do so in a way that isn't going to risk my neck. It is much much safer if things are done at a reduced speed so that each person has time to react and respond.

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, reasyn said:

...

When I talk about "overpowering" someone, I'm actually referring to being able to submit which doesn't necessarily involve purely ***/strength (though it's actually impossible to do without some degree of ***/strength but that's another subject). From my research and experience, I don't mean to sound like I'm down talking but personally think aikido is an especially useful martial art but again another subject. I say this not knowing much about it however, there is a channel from a former aikido student, martialartsjourney where he explains why the applications are limited. If you have intensive grappling experience by the way, you do tend to learn pretty early on that it's pretty hard to just ignore the strength & conditioning aspect. (or raw psychological aggression for that matter). Those are subjects that I'd have  to take a lot of time to delve into properly though.

I think for an average female to submit an average male it would take something "else".

Edited June 13, 2020 by Deleted Member

[re****]

I wouldn't use my aikido in kink, while useful it isn't applicable. I was using it for the theory behind the give/take, where the larger male resists but also follows.

[re****]

I wouldn't use my aikido in kink, while useful it isn't applicable. I was using it for the theory behind the give/take, where the larger male resists but also follows.

[re****]

My point, was more that to create a realistic fantasy the larger stronger person will have to give in some way. It won't be physically possible for me to take a man down with pure strength and *** no matter how I look at it otherwise.

[Deleted Member]

16 minutes ago, reasyn said:

My point, was more that to create a realistic fantasy the larger stronger person will have to give in some way.

Ah, I got you.

[Ky****]

9 hours ago, reasyn said:

My point, was more that to create a realistic fantasy the larger stronger person will have to give in some way. It won't be physically possible for me to take a man down with pure strength and *** no matter how I look at it otherwise.

yes, an analogy with the yukei/sohei situation was what I had in mind, the yukei resists only to the degree necessary to allow the sohei to improve, ditto in use of restraints in a 'realistic' manner in BDSM play the sub must understand that any resistance must be limited to what will enhance the game rather than turn it into a real situation