Informed Choice

[Go****]

15 minutes ago, ARCH73 said:

In some ways I agree, in others I don't. I agree that honesty and integrity are absolutely vital in all walks of life and deliberately misleading someone of your intentions is completely wrong. But alas even that comes with a caveat.

I'm a sadist, I enjoy *** play, I enjoy abduction and CNC, I enjoy creating situations that completely screw with someone's sense of reality to cause them to think that the knife I've just used has actually cut them (even though they know I don't like *** play) that the branding iron I just pressed against their skin was really red hot (even though it left no mark). That the gang scene we were doing was real (even though it was just me and her). If I give full disclosure of all the finer details, the scenes won't work because she will know exactly whats happening.

The example you gave about the person with the illness. At what point do you think he should have told you? During the first message? During the first week? Just before you met? Or should he have done what he did and explained it at the point it affects you?

You call it informed choice, and you're right it is, by being informed about someone's health up front you get to decide whether or not to speak to them. Of course, because of the information in their profile you've already made the decision whether or not to speak to them based on age, gender, race, religion or sexuality, so why not add in an unseen condition over which they may have no control and let that define them too?

Thats called DISCRIMINATION!

I get it, we all know what we are looking for, and everyone' should be given the choice whether to engage or not. People should be open qnd up-front about what they are here for: Online Only, Friends (with or without benefits), want to have a kinky chat, want to meet (or never want to meet), are having an affair or lookin for a poly situation, have experience or have no experience..... SAY IT!!!!

And to some extent medical conditions do come into it, of course they do, I wouldn't want to find out the person I've just suspended by their ankles has hypermobility after their joints have become dislocated, it would be prudent to mention it before we play so that I can make adjustments.

Equally if someone has had a bad experience or trauma, I'd want to know that before we play too, as that might cause me to adapt the kind of play we do or at least check in more often.

But I don't need to know any of these things to talk to them. I have met lots of people within this lifestyle and made a great many friends (some who are sadly no longer with us) because I don't allow an illness, mental or physical, or previous negative experience to define the person.

So whilst I agree with the intent of this post, and I agree with being open, upfront, truthful, above board and wholeheartedly support Informed Consent, I think we need to be careful how much we demand of others qnd we don't ostracise members of our community because of something over which they have no control.

You only need to know of something if it affects you, and in this case, thats exactly what happened. He became ill and at that point it affected you. You've been informed about the illness, and now you have all the information you need to make your "informed choice",

Choose wisely!

I agree there is a lot of discrimination out there and that people are wary of being defined by whatever. And this should have been discussed by my friend either before first meet or at first meet it was important. It would have made no difference to me as to deciding to meet or enter a relationship.

As to the finer details of your scenes, full disclosure would make this boring imo as the mind is where a lot of that is taking place allowing the fantasy to be played out, it would be like a magician revealing the magic before performing to his audience.

[Deleted Member]

2 hours ago, ARCH73 said:

In some ways I agree, in others I don't. I agree that honesty and integrity are absolutely vital in all walks of life and deliberately misleading someone of your intentions is completely wrong. But alas even that comes with a caveat.

I'm a sadist, I enjoy *** play, I enjoy abduction and CNC, I enjoy creating situations that completely screw with someone's sense of reality to cause them to think that the knife I've just used has actually cut them (even though they know I don't like *** play) that the branding iron I just pressed against their skin was really red hot (even though it left no mark). That the gang scene we were doing was real (even though it was just me and her). If I give full disclosure of all the finer details, the scenes won't work because she will know exactly whats happening.

The example you gave about the person with the illness. At what point do you think he should have told you? During the first message? During the first week? Just before you met? Or should he have done what he did and explained it at the point it affects you?

You call it informed choice, and you're right it is, by being informed about someone's health up front you get to decide whether or not to speak to them. Of course, because of the information in their profile you've already made the decision whether or not to speak to them based on age, gender, race, religion or sexuality, so why not add in an unseen condition over which they may have no control and let that define them too?

Thats called DISCRIMINATION!

I get it, we all know what we are looking for, and everyone' should be given the choice whether to engage or not. People should be open qnd up-front about what they are here for: Online Only, Friends (with or without benefits), want to have a kinky chat, want to meet (or never want to meet), are having an affair or lookin for a poly situation, have experience or have no experience..... SAY IT!!!!

And to some extent medical conditions do come into it, of course they do, I wouldn't want to find out the person I've just suspended by their ankles has hypermobility after their joints have become dislocated, it would be prudent to mention it before we play so that I can make adjustments.

Equally if someone has had a bad experience or trauma, I'd want to know that before we play too, as that might cause me to adapt the kind of play we do or at least check in more often.

But I don't need to know any of these things to talk to them. I have met lots of people within this lifestyle and made a great many friends (some who are sadly no longer with us) because I don't allow an illness, mental or physical, or previous negative experience to define the person.

So whilst I agree with the intent of this post, and I agree with being open, upfront, truthful, above board and wholeheartedly support Informed Consent, I think we need to be careful how much we demand of others qnd we don't ostracise members of our community because of something over which they have no control.

You only need to know of something if it affects you, and in this case, thats exactly what happened. He became ill and at that point it affected you. You've been informed about the illness, and now you have all the information you need to make your "informed choice",

Choose wisely!

I agree with Arch’s comment regarding discrimination. Much as disclosure is a vital part of informing consent, no one is entitled to know every fact about another person before they meet them. If it didn’t impact upon meeting you, it wasn’t pertinent to mention it beforehand.

Although it has no basis in law in personal situations, perhaps it would be well to take the Equality Act as a loose guide to what to expect from people. There are excellent reasons why an employer is not allowed to ask about medical conditions or other protected characteristics when hiring.

You said you had a fantastic time with this guy. You wouldn’t have had that perhaps if you’d known about his medical condition beforehand, so it’s not all bad. Also, and this is just a shot in the dark, I hope the illness you’re referring to isn’t mental health related because, if it is, I would hope he doesn’t see this post.

[Deleted Member]

There is nothing difficult about asking what’s the health situation! I always ask the potential sub if she’s suffering of any condition or have any health issue that would impact on the dynamic. It’s very important and could turn a session into a dangerous or risky end.

[Foxter]

So you're saying, you want him to tell you his health issues so you have a choice in what you want to do?

But then aren't you taking his choice away with what he's comfortable sharing?

[kikmozz666]

The person may of fantasised Over your pics. Liked the sound of you. And when meets you. Yes he wants to fuck you/play. But something doesn’t feel right. So either mans up. Or makes a excuse to not meet again. Happen all the time.