Does Lived Experience Shape Our Learning Curve in the Kink Community?

[JusticeForHJ]

Recently, I made a post on a different forum (not this one). This one is about how learning curve can be hampered when there is a difference in lived experience (last time, I realised that differences in communication style may not be enough to explain that: flatlined progress). I am saying that you do not have to be new to kink to struggle in these regards, if you struggle with the dominant social culture of the community, and I have felt in my own experiences misunderstood, or actively misread at times. Not because I have been resistant but the way how, in my bid to learn, I have been probed to uncover "reasons" why, or provided advice that can be flippant, unsolicited or corrective.

I believe that a community that claims to prioritise informed consent can still be ostracising, especially if boundaries are imagined and then claimed to not be observed. I have argued that the idea of rules at times can feel stifling or arbitrary, even if necessary to the functioning of the group. It is fair to request some common grounds to be observed, but I do not think the ethical boundaries become more healthy when someone with an outside perspective is unfairly penalised before they have even considered requesting to be involved in BDSM.

The idea of a "challenge" in this instance causes "in-group" threat, alarm, panic and distress which leads to pack mentality (dog piles, brigading, malicious communications, etc.). I don't think this causes outsiders to become more reasonable in response, I believe it triggers the same fight or flight reaction, because some kind of deviation, within reason, is required, some kind of light probing or testing of the group's meta-narrative. Without that, the group becomes an echo chamber, where it presupposes certain rules are just correct, advanced, moral, without seriously testing how those parameters work in practice, or just being open to discussion.

An outsider could be a pathogen, they could be a medicine, gut bacteria or they could be pollen. We have to question how our bodies react to these things to stay healthy. On a collective scale, always acting like white *** cells, can cause us to become bullies. In fact, sometimes it is the predators who act as guardians, while accusing others of what they themselves, are guilty of, to win influence over group dynamics. I consider this a serious problem with unchallenged authority in general, but being questioning of authority is too frequently treated with great distrust and unnecessary rigidity.                                            

I have attempted to engage with BDSM, both the online forum and local scene, for some years, and struggled not for a lack of curiosity or awareness on my behalf, but truthfully there just has not been that mutual recognition. I do feel there are many bad faith actors in position of influence, too many. Though you could say just one is one too many, I would say that there really is enough of them to have shaped my personal experience.

This is enough not just to frame me as "new" but "unready", "immature", "entitled", "different", etc. Admissions that I have struggled have lead to excessive scrutiny, hostile speculation, character assassination, and advice that is far too general (and most likely already tried) to be useful. I have noticed a tendency for group responses to turn sour at a rate that is alarming and unnerving, no matter how tolerant or diverse the kink community prides itself to be.

[Qu****]

Its sounds to me that you've gotten backlash for either disregarding rules or questioning them in the community. Understand every space may have individual sets of rules, these aren't put up arbitrarily but have been thought about from experiences that you haven't lived through. If everyone came in thinking they knew better than the location's staff it would be a mess and injuries would happen. As someone who works in a dungeon I don't have the time or patience to babysit adults. For instance we have a rule for fire play that if you're doing it you must have burn cream on hand. Sure I can sit there and explain that something will go wrong even if you've had decades of experience but if I have to explain it time and time again it will take me from other duties. I also do vetting for my dungeon, if you can't demonstrate that you have read through the rules why should I allow you into my dungeon?

[ey****]

yes, lived experience can affect the learning curve

however, this is the same with anything and everywhere.

Like if you're looking for a job you don't just turn up at a company say that you work there now, and that you disagree with all their rules and that they're doing it wrong.   This doesn't mean any company wouldn't appreciate different perspectives, but if you turn up - acting like you know better than them - it's not going to go down well.   You are often have expected to do a little bit of groundwork first before getting a job there.

And this is the issue over years, that a lot of kink groups exist from periods of trial and error, from different feedback and perspectives, moving around frameworks and (where relevant) legislation -- and then someone new/outside comes "you're doing it wrong" and often without any evidence to back this up.

This said, of course, most groups are not perfect - and if you've never been in one, you won't be aware of actually a lot of the disagreements and pushbacks within them - often different perspectives and how people would do things differently.

 

[JusticeForHJ]

10 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

This said, of course, most groups are not perfect - and if you've never been in one, you won't be aware of actually a lot of the disagreements and pushbacks within them - often different perspectives and how people would do things differently.

Exactly, they do arise with time, one way or another. And when they do, disagreement must learn to be tolerated and not "ban anyone who even looks like they may think different". To assume malice, or even neglect, from someone who has not even asked to attend events meets the parameters of toxicity.

[ey****]

yep, they do learn to live with disagreement - which is why they continue to exist.

Though, a lot does depend on the nature of the disagreement.  I guess for example, everyone thinks they know how they'd handle certain scenarios, and might judge others for their handling of it.  But then they themselves later be in a situation whereby it wasn't as straight forward as it seems

It depends where the different lines of thought or agreement lie.