Pride

[Charms]

Do kinksters belong at pride?

 

Been watching videos from 2 of my favorite kinksters in usa. What was discussed  is that some people in pride say kinksters should not be allowed in any part of pride.

Also the pride flag had 8 colours in it. Iv learnt things tonigh

Edited June 1, 2021 by Charms

[Deleted Member]

Kink isn’t about sexual orientation or gender identity so I agree, it has nothing to do with pride. That’s not to say you’re excluded from going to pride or the lgbtq+ community, just that ‘being kinky’ doesn’t make you part of it imo.

[qu****]

13 minutes ago, NessusIssues said:

Kink isn’t about sexual orientation or gender identity so I agree, it has nothing to do with pride. That’s not to say you’re excluded from going to pride or the lgbtq+ community, just that ‘being kinky’ doesn’t make you part of it imo

If you follow that arguement it isn't about acceptance as claimed then, it's more a case of look at us we're different. By the way I've spoken with many from the now called LGBT community the majority of which hate that label, and also don't attend pride events as they want to be seen as a part of society, not appearing to be outside of it. Also with that arguement straight heterosexuals also have no part in it. So much for inclusivity then....

[Deleted Member]

I think you’ve misinterpreted my meaning, I think anyone supportive should be welcomed into pride.. I just don’t think ‘being kinky’ is part of what the lgbtq community stand for. Just my opinion. I know a lot of people who also don’t attend pride anymore, especially the Manchester one because of how many straight cishet people attend just to attend, they don’t support the community outside the pride events.

[qu****]

But then perhaps we should look at the original meaning of PRIDE, Personal Rights In Defence and Education, now it means Promote Respect Inclusion and Dignity for Everyone, so yes all should be included

[Deleted Member]

Pride is for a specific community - LGBT etc. If kinky people and families and heterosexual people want to attend - fine. But it is diluting the power and the message if things are changed to be more inclusive of people that Pride is not for. Regardless of the acronym meaning - Pride is not for everyone. Why should it be?

[ey****]

the "no kink at pride" discourse comes from people who want to exclude Leather Daddy's and Leather Pups (and, to a degree, Dykes on Bikes) 

this isn't really about cishet people with a foot fetish wanting to attend.   It's about people wanting to exclude groups who do.

[qu****]

The other funny thing is that a fair bit of BDSM language and clothing if not totally originating from but was more widely used and promoted as an image by the gay community particularly males, as Ive said everyone means everyone, not just cherry-picked from for a particular argument

[ey****]

BDSM borrows a lot from the gay community.  The whole concept of 'old guard' comes from leather families comes from gay culture.

Which is why, for example, there is zero place for homophobia/transphobia/etc in the kink community. 

[Sa****]

No. Being kinky or having a fetish doesn't make you LGBTQ+, therefore you are not a part of that community unless you identify as queer or something under that umbrella term. 

You are, of course, welcome at pride, as are everyone else as long as you bring a smile and a good mood. You're just not walking as a part of the LGBTQ+ community, but as an ally. 

That being said, Happy fucking pride kinksters!!! 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈

[Deleted Member]

Pride is a business for a long time. Funny that an event that fought against exclusion now exclude another community 🤷‍♂️😂!
Anyway if they still need to have a celebration parade to prove they are gay/etc then there is something wrong with the system.

[Deleted Member]

4 hours ago, Curvykate said:

Pride is for a specific community - LGBT etc. If kinky people and families and heterosexual people want to attend - fine. But it is diluting the power and the message if things are changed to be more inclusive of people that Pride is not for. Regardless of the acronym meaning - Pride is not for everyone. Why should it be?

Of course this is a tricky subject and I've seen very different pride events take very different stances.

For example in 2018 at the London pride event there was a lot of controversy over attitudes of inclusion and exclusion. As several kink groups had tried to take part and were told they couldn't due to possible controversy. 

However there was a great deal of controversy as a group called "get the L out" took part and used pride to push an anti trans message.

Of course the organisers did not know about this however it did raise a good deal of debate. Sadly not all as respectful and calm as this one.

Personally I'm not too bothered by kink not being included however I can empathize as I have heard people say similar things to curvykate yet LGBT is open to growth and change to be more inclusive. The best example being the change from LGBT to LGBTQ+. However I do think if there is going to be change to include kink it will take some time for it to happen.

However I do understand people's annoyance that they are not allowed into the parade as there different sexual nature is deemed to be not part of it or too controversial yet you have large companies using it as an advertisement.

To be told you can't take part in an event about awareness and understanding then to see BT and Santander marching along with big banners is a bit of a kick in the crotch.

Ultimately it seems to be down to the organisers of the event in that area.

[Wi****]

Its become big business marketing now, so I'm not even sure gay peopel belong at pride any more. I saw a tweet today with a "non binary trans LGBT" person saying "those f**ers should not be present" - it was a bunch of Tory gay guys. If only the right kind of gay is allowed, tells you all you need to know.

I guess those who are gay should be there, but if you're straight and kinky, being kinky doesn't suddenly include you. I wonder if the same applies to non-binary fab people, and "trans lesbians" 🤔

[Deleted Member]

52 minutes ago, MaskedDom said:

Of course this is a tricky subject and I've seen very different pride events take very different stances.

For example in 2018 at the London pride event there was a lot of controversy over attitudes of inclusion and exclusion. As several kink groups had tried to take part and were told they couldn't due to possible controversy. 

However there was a great deal of controversy as a group called "get the L out" took part and used pride to push an anti trans message.

Of course the organisers did not know about this however it did raise a good deal of debate. Sadly not all as respectful and calm as this one.

Personally I'm not too bothered by kink not being included however I can empathize as I have heard people say similar things to curvykate yet LGBT is open to growth and change to be more inclusive. The best example being the change from LGBT to LGBTQ+. However I do think if there is going to be change to include kink it will take some time for it to happen.

However I do understand people's annoyance that they are not allowed into the parade as there different sexual nature is deemed to be not part of it or too controversial yet you have large companies using it as an advertisement.

To be told you can't take part in an event about awareness and understanding then to see BT and Santander marching along with big banners is a bit of a kick in the crotch.

Ultimately it seems to be down to the organisers of the event in that area.

Do you suspect the no-kink group rulings are down to attracting sponsorship from the likes of Santander? So it's a more family-friendly event that looks sanitised enough for business.
Get the L out were protesting calling lesbians transphobic if they didn't want to date trans women. The cotton ceiling as it's known. Is that anti-trans or pro-lesbian?

[ey****]

1 hour ago, FabSeverus said:

Anyway if they still need to have a celebration parade to prove they are gay/etc then there is something wrong with the system.

But there *is* something *still* wrong with the system.  That's the point

Pride isn't a 'celebration parade' it's a protest.  

[qu****]

 It used to be the statement  we are no different to anyone else and want to be treated as such, (which is true,), now it seems to be look at us we're different, I'm not saying we shouldn't celebrate all that's good with life, but it must be for everyone, not just meaningless labels. We are all people

[Deleted Member]

12 minutes ago, quietlysure said:

 It used to be the statement  we are no different to anyone else and want to be treated as such, (which is true,), now it seems to be look at us we're different, I'm not saying we shouldn't celebrate all that's good with life, but it must be for everyone, not just meaningless labels. We are all people

Why must Pride be for everyone? It's an LGBTQ event. Pride started a year after the Stonewall Riots, Pride Month is in June which is when the riots took place. The rainbow flag was originally designed for Pride.

[Sa****]

16 minutes ago, quietlysure said:

 It used to be the statement  we are no different to anyone else and want to be treated as such, (which is true,), now it seems to be look at us we're different, I'm not saying we shouldn't celebrate all that's good with life, but it must be for everyone, not just meaningless labels. We are all people

Pride isn't for everyone. As mentioned above it is an LGBTQ+ event. 

And it's still not just a parade. It is a riot, a peaceful one at that, but still a riot. It is a march we do to show people that we are still present and will always continue to be and hopefully countries where we are not allowed to marry or be together will review their laws and systems to accommodate us as well. 

Therefore, everyone is welcome at pride, as long as you march with us as an ally.

[Miss_Sarina]

8 hours ago, Curvykate said:

Pride is for a specific community - LGBT etc. If kinky people and families and heterosexual people want to attend - fine. But it is diluting the power and the message if things are changed to be more inclusive of people that Pride is not for. Regardless of the acronym meaning - Pride is not for everyone. Why should it be?

Because it is about inclusion otherwise what is the point.  At least I always took it to mean a way to celebrate LGBTQ+ community AND those who support them... 

[Deleted Member]

38 minutes ago, Miss_Sarina said:

Because it is about inclusion otherwise what is the point.  At least I always took it to mean a way to celebrate LGBTQ+ community AND those who support them... 

In that post I said anyone should be able to attend.

[Miss_Sarina]

"But it is diluting the power and the message if things are changed to be more inclusive of people that Pride is not for", Okay, then this part got me confused.

[Deleted Member]

32 minutes ago, Miss_Sarina said:

"But it is diluting the power and the message if things are changed to be more inclusive of people that Pride is not for", Okay, then this part got me confused.

I don't think that anyone who isn't part of that community should influence or control decisions about Pride.

[Deleted Member]

4 hours ago, Curvykate said:

Do you suspect the no-kink group rulings are down to attracting sponsorship from the likes of Santander? So it's a more family-friendly event that looks sanitised enough for business.

It could be business related but it could also be wanting to avoid upsetting parents or conservative style people tbh. Which again I do see the point of some arguments that since Pride was originally a protest the idea of not including certain people so as to not to offend people is hypocritical.

As I said it is tricky to try and pin down as of course with so many people being involved there are so many different views. 

I know here in Cardiff a few years ago there was a kink group in the parade with people in full leather and even puppy boys. I was surprised but what was more surprising (in a good way) was how normal everyone reacted.

Though the thing I took away most was seeing one of the puppy boys have a bit of trouble trying wiping tears away. I gave him a tissue as I had plenty (it was a very hot day so a lot of swear lol) and asked if he was ok.

He said he couldn't believe people were smiling and clapping as he walked around in his gear and he nearly didn't go as he was scared.

Again I personally would like to see more kink inclusion however I respect that it's a tricky thing and takes time. I mean we still have a lot of problems with hate towards LGBTQ+ groups as it is so certainly I respect concerns from groups about taking away focus ect.

[ey****]

3 hours ago, quietlysure said:

 It used to be the statement  we are no different to anyone else and want to be treated as such, (which is true,), now it seems to be look at us we're different, I'm not saying we shouldn't celebrate all that's good with life, but it must be for everyone, not just meaningless labels. We are all people

Both can be true

We all bleed red.  But people are different and diversity should be celebrated.

However... a large point of Pride is very much a case of "We are Queer and we're still here" - it's a reminder.  And, you know... there still isn't actually true equality across the board - while things are not *as bad* for LGBTQ+ folk there's still a lot of times in living memory when things were awful.

 

[Deleted Member]

18 minutes ago, MaskedDom said:

It could be business related but it could also be wanting to avoid upsetting parents or conservative style people tbh. Which again I do see the point of some arguments that since Pride was originally a protest the idea of not including certain people so as to not to offend people is hypocritical.

As I said it is tricky to try and pin down as of course with so many people being involved there are so many different views. 

I know here in Cardiff a few years ago there was a kink group in the parade with people in full leather and even puppy boys. I was surprised but what was more surprising (in a good way) was how normal everyone reacted.

Though the thing I took away most was seeing one of the puppy boys have a bit of trouble trying wiping tears away. I gave him a tissue as I had plenty (it was a very hot day so a lot of swear lol) and asked if he was ok.

He said he couldn't believe people were smiling and clapping as he walked around in his gear and he nearly didn't go as he was scared.

Again I personally would like to see more kink inclusion however I respect that it's a tricky thing and takes time. I mean we still have a lot of problems with hate towards LGBTQ+ groups as it is so certainly I respect concerns from groups about taking away focus ect.

I'm a parent and I probably wouldn't have taken my young kids to Pride if there was kink on show. But I don't think that Pride should change because people outside the community are offended - exactly as you say.