Letting things develop naturally

[jinxed]

Beforehand: I don't have 30 years of experience, so this is based on my personal idealistic ideas.
'Within the lifestyle', I had the chance to be involved with two men so far who both hadn't had any experience with BDSM. Therefore with both it was a journey of discoveries for both of us that couldn't have been more dissimilar from one another. There were no lists of things we liked or didn't like given out beforehand. Instead there was chemistry, fantasies being shared (albeit reluctantly from my side because I was so ashamed of them back then), and sometimes plain and simple experiments.
Did everything work perfectly? No, there were moments I had to stop mid-action because it felt wrong or where my partner turned a situation into something that I hated. Once I learned to discuss these events, they became stepping stones instead of obstacles. But the main aspect was that we were two individuals who were developing something together. Had I gone into it saying "Here is my list, see what works for you" or "I'm a slave/pet/..." I believe I would have missed out on those magical, surprising moments but more importantly on this joint venture of discovering what connected the two of us even more. Where I was the most obedient slave for one, I turned into a vicious little prey with the other. 
I understand that it is important to state likes and limits, but does it really have to be in advance? Can't it develop over time as I get to know my counterpart? I'd be very curious to hear what other people think about this, because I know that the lists are used for a reason. I just feel like they inhibit a more natural development. 

Edited Sunday at 09:27 AM by jinxed

[Si****]

I totally agree with you, a D/S relationship is still a relationship. It develops and evolves over time; personally I find most joy in discovering what my partner and I enjoy (or don't). You don't go into a more traditional relationship writing out every little thing beforehand either. Of course lists can be helpful to set boundaries within you can explore but they're not needed if there's mutual trust and good communication.

[ey****]

I think for the most part, things do develop other time with people.

However, also at the start whilst there may well be an open minded approach - there's always things that people might specifically want to try (based on prior fantasies) or things that they particularly don't, even if that may be changeable with time.

I guess, however, a thing is - now you have had that period of experimentation - you will have things that you know you like, or discovered you like - and things that you know you dislike and wouldn't wish to do again.  So any future experiences already shifts your position.  Any further relationships while there's still likely scope for experimentation - there are activities there's little sense in repeating as you know you don't like them and then those you may be drawn towards because you do.

[Schmerzhaftschön]

First of all, I am really happy for you! I personally prefer do have an overview of general likes/ limits because I don't want to invest much time into someone who doesn't share at least 60/70% of my likes - as it takes time for me to decide: yes, we can start a d/s relationship. I am a HUGE fan of development over time - as we grow with our playpartner, and the remaining fantasies can be discovered over time.
Of course, if someone is new and open to experiment - The list will create itself over time. I like to build on top of (already existing) lists, or contribute to new variations of the same 'kink' or fantasy. Someone might enjoy x, but everyone executes x in a different way which makes it more interesting. I think that lists provide a good base, and even if it's not there yet - if both parties get along, it can be discovered together.

[jinxed]

9 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I guess, however, a thing is - now you have had that period of experimentation - you will have things that you know you like, or discovered you like - and things that you know you dislike and wouldn't wish to do again.  So any future experiences already shifts your position.  

You might think that's the case. But what I find is that it depends completely on the partner I might encounter in the future. Maybe I just didn't like the execution with a former partner while I might love the experience with someone who does it differently. A new partner might bring out completely different aspects of me again which turn everything on its head and with this person things I used to love just wouldn't make sense. So you see, I just can't see the benefit of bringing my checklist with me. But I get you point of course. 

[jinxed]

39 minutes ago, SirL_anon said:

 Of course lists can be helpful to set boundaries within you can explore but they're not needed if there's mutual trust and good communication.

It's all down to the communication, isn't it? I thought about this yesterday. Be that non-verbal or verbal communication. And considering that we are (what is it 99,9%?) @nimal, this makes complete sense. But communication develops. It's not just done at some point, and so this can apply to this subject as well.  

Edited Sunday at 11:16 AM by jinxed

[do****]

I believe listing out your likes dislikes takes a lot of the fun in being in a relationship with another. One of the key pieces of intimacy is exploration. It generates the baseline for intimacy exploration. Some may already know what they like and feel the need to list it. Where others wait for another to discover those boundaries and limits on their own will. Perhaps as a test of tolerance between each individual vs any individual.

[Fr****]

I think that you going into this open-minded is the best to do. A lot of people have lists and seem to be looking for that one person that has the exact matching list of wishes etc. This limits the possibilities to experience something new and leads to a lot of frustrations. Because, are you really going to find that perfect match? Most probably not. Anyway, enjoy the journey!

[go****]

the important thing to remember is that each D/s pairing is different. some naturally flow faster than others and that is perfectly fine. Some use contracts and others do not. the guiding principle is in which situation do you feel safe and even more important trusting your Dom to lead you.

[Qu****]

I go in with almost no list, just a couple of hard no's. And I will explain to them that until there is trust, they will only trigger past trauma.

[No****]

I'm new to this and exactly the type of thing I'm looking for

[SweetLittleAngel]

I'll be honest, my experience with exploring and learning as you go with my ex-husband was a BAD one. We started out rather innocent, and I fell in love with him, but we discovered over a decade together that we were sexually incompatible, no matter how much we loved each other, and it completely broke our relationship, as well as completely broke ME. I spent years pushing myself into kinks that weren't mine to fulfill his needs because I loved him and wanted to make things work, and it literally broke me. I would MUCH rather start out a new relationship knowing more about how compatible my potential partner and I are, rather than falling in love again and THEN finding out that we're not sexually compatible. I mean, I don't have to know EVERYYTHING about my partner's sexual desires, but I need to know the basics at least, and to know that my potential partner and I are compatible.

[Ve****]

I would rather go into a relationship with no expectations and a few hard limits rather than just give them a list up front. Its a learning experience for both people.

[Ro****]

I too like my dynamics to develop naturally. I've been poly a decade now, with more than one established long term anchor. Though I do start with stricter boundaries in a new situation for safety, in both mind and body. I know until the trust is gained, there are certain things that may trigger the wrong response. How they deal with navigating that with respect to the boundaries and communication is the foundation of building it. I've tried the whole list thing. It can be inhibiting or even overwhelming to start there.Things can change from one dynamic to another and even from one scene to another. Let it come naturally, the connection is so much better for me this way.

[Bi****]

Personally, I would never be with someone who has no experience. I am not prepared to teach a Dom how to Dom while I want to be in the position of a sub. That's just too much dual responsibility. There's also too much left open for interpretation including the chance for *** of power. My perspective partner MUST have experience and a strong understanding of how D/s dynamics generally work. The rest develops naturally as all people are still human with their own preferences and limits, and relationships all have their own vibe.

[ch****]

I’ll admit it’s communication. But with my experience. The ladies I attracted are more interested in something else. My first girlfriend was older she was bisexual into BDSM / Swinging . But my first fiancé thought it was how can I say this. She was a hypocrite. She had BDSM Video tapes but was very vanilla underneath. My second fiancé was the opposite but much like my first Fiancé. To conservatives yet didn’t want to admit what they really wanted. The communications were lost because both terrible and terrified at explaining or expressing our views. Towards what our goals were.

[jinxed]

29 minutes ago, chicago38936 said:

I’ll admit it’s communication. But with my experience. The ladies I attracted are more interested in something else. My first girlfriend was older she was bisexual into BDSM / Swinging . But my first fiancé thought it was how can I say this. She was a hypocrite. She had BDSM Video tapes but was very vanilla underneath. My second fiancé was the opposite but much like my first Fiancé. To conservatives yet didn’t want to admit what they really wanted. The communications were lost because both terrible and terrified at explaining or expressing our views. Towards what our goals were.

Wow, I have never heard about someone being actually conservative while telling others - and most likely themselves - that they were kinky! Usually it's the other way around, isn't it? 
Do you have an idea what might have made them present themselves as kinky to the world? Because I don't think it would have been hypocrisy, but rather the very unhelpful form of some ulterior and innocent motive. Which of course could be anything, from wanting to please, to wanting to keep a partner, to wanting to impress, there must be hundreds of reasons for such behaviour. Did you ever get an inkling of what it might have been?