Creating spaces

[jinxed]

As I'm trying to come out of an obsession with a man that seems to be out of reach, I came across an insight a Zen monk shared about how to cultivate love in your life. He looks at love as a shared space that is created through and between two beings, be that friends, family members or partners. Now, if I were to apply this concept to a kink connection, it would still mean that the individual partners are substantial to the connection, but the focus would change. A partner wouldn't be substantial for me anymore, but 'only' for the creation of the space between us. 

In my view, this takes away a lot of pressure! Partners don't need to be there for one another, they now would need to show up for the space. The question would go from "Does this person like me enough to put in the effort?" to "Does this person show behaviour that nourishes the space?" What a change in perspective! If they can't/don't want to do that, then the rejection is not aimed towards the other person but towards the space which consequently will dissolve. For me this is big shift and a huge relief. Perhaps someone has learned how to do this and can share insights. 

[Hypnocurious]

It is called a reframe, change the way you perceive something and you change your feeling. Shift is also a technical term for a perception re alignment.

[mr****]

A couple of dialogues from the movie Matrix come to mind.
1. The mind makes it real.
2. There is no spoon.

Each of us use different coping mechanisms and our mind is an interesting... entity. Capable of observing itself in 3rd person. (Practised my Miyamoto Musashi)

My learning has been: everything, without exception, has a cost.
Focusing on a space requires blurring the person or some form of another connection or perspective in some way.
An interesting thing to ponder upon could be, pay this cost once, always..?
Sometimes the space is more important, some times the person.

[jinxed]

30 minutes ago, mrdebil said:

My learning has been: everything, without exception, has a cost.
Focusing on a space requires blurring the person or some form of another connection or perspective in some way.
An interesting thing to ponder upon could be, pay this cost once, always..?
Sometimes the space is more important, some times the person.

This was the exact nagging thought I had with this and why I posted the question here to get second opinions. 

Is the person irrelevant or at least less relevant then? Would it mean becoming detached and less able to connect truly and deeply?

However, the p@in would be gone. Which might make those potential setbacks worth it. 

Edited June 23 by jinxed

[an****]

I like to explain this concept in this way.

No one can make you feel a feeling, this is a fact. It is impossible for an external source to create a chemical reaction 'feeling' inside you, you are your keeper and you are the only one who is in the driver's seat. The 'feeling' is part of the 'space' in the post you wrote. The feeling is the thing you seek, not the person, not their bundle of cells. The way you personally changed your own internal chemical responses based on a set of circumstances.

This is why closure is so confusing, it's not based on reality. You literally try to erase the feeling you unlocked and want, it's not possible. Closure is a lie.

The individual pieces/partners and situations are all experience and with experience comes data. The biggest disservice we do is the belief that kindness is rare, connection is unique, or that love/interest has to be complicated/hard.

The thing is, the more you ask and the more you offer means your pool of potential has to be big enough for the whale and you have to have patience, the right lure, and the right boat when they hook. I see so many many people asking for a whale and having space in there life for a stuffed gold fish.

I do not know the teachings of this Zen monk, but my logic dictates the 'space' described is not between you and another, it is your 'curated designer home' of what each specific dynamic is perfect for you and the people are the real estate market. Now you can always do some diy and upgrades and live with a smaller kitchen, but a bad neighborhood might still be a deal breaker (even for the model home). But the more houses you see the more you understand the market and realize the value and cost, you just have to see a lot of homes if you have a lot of requirements and a lot of homes aren't available for years.

What makes him out of reach and how does that fit this 'space' topic? What 'space' does his characteristics create/fill for you?

[ey****]

I guess a big thing also is that - someone willing to put in the effort, still isn't necessarily the right person

 

[Ze****]

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Edited June 24 by Zer07x

[ra****]

6 hours ago, anotherusername said:

I like to explain this concept in this way.

No one can make you feel a feeling, this is a fact. It is impossible for an external source to create a chemical reaction 'feeling' inside you, you are your keeper and you are the only one who is in the driver's seat. The 'feeling' is part of the 'space' in the post you wrote. The feeling is the thing you seek, not the person, not their bundle of cells. The way you personally changed your own internal chemical responses based on a set of circumstances.

This is why closure is so confusing, it's not based on reality. You literally try to erase the feeling you unlocked and want, it's not possible. Closure is a lie.

The individual pieces/partners and situations are all experience and with experience comes data. The biggest disservice we do is the belief that kindness is rare, connection is unique, or that love/interest has to be complicated/hard.

The thing is, the more you ask and the more you offer means your pool of potential has to be big enough for the whale and you have to have patience, the right lure, and the right boat when they hook. I see so many many people asking for a whale and having space in there life for a stuffed gold fish.

I do not know the teachings of this Zen monk, but my logic dictates the 'space' described is not between you and another, it is your 'curated designer home' of what each specific dynamic is perfect for you and the people are the real estate market. Now you can always do some diy and upgrades and live with a smaller kitchen, but a bad neighborhood might still be a deal breaker (even for the model home). But the more houses you see the more you understand the market and realize the value and cost, you just have to see a lot of homes if you have a lot of requirements and a lot of homes aren't available for years.

What makes him out of reach and how does that fit this 'space' topic? What 'space' does his characteristics create/fill for you?

I was having a conversation with a platonic male friend earlier about men that included several comparisons to fishing

Your whole comment was well articulated, but reading those fishing references made me smile 😂❤️

[jinxed]

9 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I guess a big thing also is that - someone willing to put in the effort, still isn't necessarily the right person

 

Very true. And that would be crucial even if the focus was on the space alone. I once started to fall in love with a man with whom I wasn't aligned in the slightest on an interpersonal level, but our sexual energies - at the time - matched so perfectly well that this space between us was golden for a long time. However, the moment the dynamic soured a bit, our characters' incompatibility made salvaging it impossible. But whether right or wrong person, that doesn't determine where the focus could lie.  

[jinxed]

10 hours ago, anotherusername said:

No one can make you feel a feeling, this is a fact. It is impossible for an external source to create a chemical reaction 'feeling' inside you, you are your keeper and you are the only one who is in the driver's seat. 

The advertising and propaganda industry might beg to differ.. 

But on a more serious note:

"The feeling is the thing you seek, not the person, not their bundle of cells. The way you personally changed your own internal chemical responses based on a set of circumstances." 

This is where it gets horribly complicated because I'm aware that the circumstances are based on a person and their cells. I've tried to tell myself that I was obsessed with the feelings and visions that were created through the interaction. Unfortunately, it is an individual that makes them possible in the first place. His particular frequency (and I use this word in the least new agey sense possible!) made all of my cells vibrate in the most beautiful way. I've experienced this once before and to this day, it is this sync in frequencies that makes that former and deeply loved partner one of my favourite human beings on the planet despite our relationship being over. 
Yet, if such an alignment cannot be lived out and stays theoretical, for example due to actual distance or time constraints, then it's tortvre to feel this immense urge to be with this person. And so I feel the only option left is to not get attached to a certain house but rather to the idea of creating a home. 

Edited June 24 by jinxed

[an****]

5 hours ago, jinxed said:

The advertising and propaganda industry might beg to differ.. 

But on a more serious note:

"The feeling is the thing you seek, not the person, not their bundle of cells. The way you personally changed your own internal chemical responses based on a set of circumstances." 

This is where it gets horribly complicated because I'm aware that the circumstances are based on a person and their cells. I've tried to tell myself that I was obsessed with the feelings and visions that were created through the interaction. Unfortunately, it is an individual that makes them possible in the first place. His particular frequency (and I use this word in the least new agey sense possible!) made all of my cells vibrate in the most beautiful way. I've experienced this once before and to this day, it is this sync in frequencies that makes that former and deeply loved partner one of my favourite human beings on the planet despite our relationship being over. 
Yet, if such an alignment cannot be lived out and stays theoretical, for example due to actual distance or time constraints, then it's tortvre to feel this immense urge to be with this person. And so I feel the only option left is to not get attached to a certain house but rather to the idea of creating a home. 

First, I absolutely love the way you talk 🤤 second, sad to say but none of us are all that rare or unique or unicorns, if one person had a trait someone else has that trait, a bucket load of someones have that trait. What I find is capacity for the 'hunt' is what tends to limit us.

The advice, date like you are collecting Needohs, go to 5 stores (places or lounges) on repeat, become familiar with the staff (get familiar with the staff), get the details on deliveries (find out when high value people show up), plan your attack (plan your attack). I say this because I know it works, but I also don't prioritize making myself available. I go to events and I am out in public but I'm never alone and my friends are needy 😅 so I won't approach anyone when they are around, I also don't have any male friends so that makes it difficult.

Your fish exists, and for every one visable there are hundreds hidden. We reap what we sow and relationships tend to back burner to family, friends, work, hobbies, scrolling, etc. So, it definitely makes it hard to see or interact with many fish if we are never fishing, and the only fish we do get is something random from the buffet that's been picked over and available to everyone.

The point is, don't believe the buffet fish is the only thing out there, it is just the least effort option. But that may be the only capacity we can allow for right now, and that's ok too.

'Creating a Home' is a lovely phrase.

[an****]

15 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I guess a big thing also is that - someone willing to put in the effort, still isn't necessarily the right person

 

And someone who has a lot of capacity, texts right back, talks for hours, commits to plans, is either all-in or is empty, the difference is hugh. But the 'feeling' of being a priority is real and that is data.

[an****]

9 hours ago, raleigh953174 said:

I was having a conversation with a platonic male friend earlier about men that included several comparisons to fishing

Your whole comment was well articulated, but reading those fishing references made me smile 😂❤️

Please share your conversation, if you can 🙂

[jinxed]

3 hours ago, anotherusername said:

 

 sad to say but none of us are all that rare or unique or unicorns, if one person had a trait someone else has that trait, a bucket load of someones have that trait. What I find is capacity for the 'hunt' is what tends to limit us.
 

There might be many people with similar traits, similar looks, similar ways to live life, similar ways to process things. But there are few out there that have that specific frequency that makes my heart vibrate. And I'd claim that this is true for everyone. Again, I've had great connections with men, I sometimes even thought I was in love. But apart from one, those were infatuations with traits, looks, all the superficial stuff. If you look at the core (some call it aura, some call it soul) of the beings around you, then you'll find that not one is identical with another one. For two decades I was a traveler and in that time have met hundreds of people from all walks of life, countries and cultures. This is the second one who brings a joy that is the most invigorating and calming and seducing and all-encompassing. 

Apologies for this public display of affection. As I said, I'm trying to come out of the obsession but it's close to impossible. 

[No****]

What I find fascinating about this idea is that it subtly changes the unit of analysis.

Most people think of a relationship as existing between two people.

This perspective suggests that the relationship itself becomes a third thing.

Not you.
Not me.
But the space we create together.

Once that happens, many questions begin to change.

Instead of asking:
"How do I make this person stay?"

The question becomes:
"How do we nourish the space between us?"

Instead of measuring affection, attention, or commitment directly, we start observing whether the interaction itself produces trust, curiosity, safety, honesty, playfulness, growth, or understanding.

The space becomes a kind of shared garden.

Both people contribute to it.
Neither person owns it.
And if one person stops tending it, the garden doesn't die because somebody failed as a human being.
It simply means the conditions required for that particular garden no longer exist.

What I find most liberating is that it removes the burden of trying to control another person.

You cannot control a person.

You can only contribute to the quality of the space.

Perhaps love, friendship, kink, and even family bonds are less about holding onto people and more about continually participating in the creation of that shared space.

And when viewed that way, rejection becomes less of a statement about personal worth and more of a statement about compatibility in maintaining the space itself.

[jinxed]

6 hours ago, NocturnalVisitations said:

The space becomes a kind of shared garden.

Both people contribute to it.
Neither person owns it.
And if one person stops tending it, the garden doesn't die because somebody failed as a human being.
It simply means the conditions required for that particular garden no longer exist.

What I find most liberating is that it removes the burden of trying to control another person.

This is so beautifully put! And yes, it would be incredibly liberating, wouldn't it? And motivating! If both partners could share this outlook, then showing up for the relationship in the ways 'needed' wouldn't be for the other one, but for this third entity of whose wellbeing both partners benefit. It is a thorough and comforting way to look at any kind of loving connection.