So you want a 'nice' guy

[CopperKnob]

34 minutes ago, Tiny_ said:

Interesting read thanks for posting.

The problem is 'most' girls don't want a "Nice guy", that's not personal opinion it's a fact backed by immeasurable evidence.

This whole problem is a can of worms though and the woke internet is not ready to have a conversation about yet, however....

 

Personally when ever I treat the lady like the "Queen she deserves to be" and like a "Real man", she get's bored takes advantage and its a bad and costly ending for me every time.

Treat them like shit? Be emotionally unavailable?  They keep coming back for more and I cant beat them off with a stick, personal experience.

Who is at fault here?

 

I don't even think i'm ready for the conversation which centres around explaining why men have no business telling women what they want so soon after the last one let alone discussions as to why, when people make such broad sweeping claims which are 'fact' without any evidence to back up the statement will be dismissed or as to how you've entirely missed the intention of the post or why it was even posted
#opinionsare not facts

[ey****]

I think, and being careful how I chime in.

As said elsewhere nice is neither a personality type nor an interest it's a bare minimum and so just being 'nice' isn't anything.  I went on a date once with a lovely nice girl - but we had nothing in common so I felt kind of an arsehole not wanting to meet again - I hope she has found a boy who appreciates she is lovely AND they have a lot in common with each other.

The problem, is when you treat someone like the "Queen she deserves to be" you are dictating how you think she should be treat, not how she wants to be - similarly the entire notion of "real man" is toxic as fuck.  As is intentionally treating someone badly, who is more likely to tolerate this because they're trying to make positive changes to your behaviour; perhaps they're at fault for trying to help someone who is deliberately playing up being an arsehole - who knows.

Usually if someone gets bored it's because the initial attraction wears off and they're maybe then left with someone they don't have a whole lot in common with 

[BitcoinAyo]

I love this

[Denaangel]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Sh****]

3 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I think, and being careful how I chime in.

As said elsewhere nice is neither a personality type nor an interest it's a bare minimum and so just being 'nice' isn't anything.  I went on a date once with a lovely nice girl - but we had nothing in common so I felt kind of an arsehole not wanting to meet again - I hope she has found a boy who appreciates she is lovely AND they have a lot in common with each other.

The problem, is when you treat someone like the "Queen she deserves to be" you are dictating how you think she should be treat, not how she wants to be - similarly the entire notion of "real man" is toxic as fuck.  As is intentionally treating someone badly, who is more likely to tolerate this because they're trying to make positive changes to your behaviour; perhaps they're at fault for trying to help someone who is deliberately playing up being an arsehole - who knows.

Usually if someone gets bored it's because the initial attraction wears off and they're maybe then left with someone they don't have a whole lot in common with 

Don't ask my mum. She thinks I'm a cocky little sh*t :P

[Lo****]

One of my favourite websites and forums of all time (now sadly read-only) is Heartless Bitches International. They have a whole section on Nice Guys (TM).

This is just an excerpt from it …

”What's wrong with Nice Guys? The biggest problem is that most Nice Guys (TM) are hideously insecure. They are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for the simply pleasure of giving. You never know if a Nice Guy really likes you for who you are, or if he has glommed onto you out of desperation because you actually paid some kind of attention to him.

Nice Guys exude insecurity -- a big red target for the predators of the world. There are women out there who are "users" -- just looking for a sucker to take advantage of. Users home-in on "Nice Guys", stroke their egos, take them for a ride, add a notch to their belts, and move on. It's no wonder so many Nice Guys complain about women being horrible, when so often the kind of woman that gets attracted to them is the lowest form of life ... 

Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find "Nice Guys" to be too clingy, self-abasing and insecure. 

Nice Guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date". 

They are so desperate to please that they put aside their own needs, and place the object of their desire on a pedestal. Instead of appreciating her, they worship her. We are only human, and pedestals are narrow, confining places to be - not to mention the fact that we tend to fall off of them. 

They cling to her, and want to be "one" with her for *** that if she is out of sight, she may disappear or become attracted to someone else. A Nice Guy often has trouble with emotional intimacy, because he believes that if she learns about the REAL person inside, she will no longer love him.”

 

If you want to get dates, don’t be nice, be KIND.

I also recommend checking out the red flag list on the website.

 

[ey****]

14 minutes ago, Lockfairy said:

One of my favourite websites and forums of all time (now sadly read-only) is Heartless Bitches International. They have a whole section on Nice Guys (TM).

 

I read the excerpt you posted and there's a lot I identify with.

I won't retell my life story but when I was younger I fell into the "Nice guy" trap : and the net results of this included, well, me being super clingy with one girlfriend and pushing her away - had a couple of short term relationships (one not even an official bf/gf) where the other person took a lend and someone who once fucked me through pity.   Not great.
Of course I did have good relationships as well - but - sitting thinking "how can I not get a break - I'm nice!" didn't actually do anything to help me meet people.   

[Dy****]

As usual, Copper brings up a very valid issue.

Being genuine is too hard for most, and as such, these are people that should be involved in relationships.

[so****]

I'm so glad you're bringing attention to this subject. There's plenty of us guys who are nice. But the term is often associated with betas & clingy types. There are good, dominant men out there, but alas, we are far outnumbered by the assholes lol unfortunately. But we DO exist 👍😂

[Ar****]

I keep seeing little tangents branch off from this post, and I don't know whether typical forum debate/input was intended but somewhere along the way something got me thinking.

Am I a nice guy? Not necessarily in the sense we are even talking about, the sickeningly OTT schmaltzy types who never let that side of them drop EVER - or are we? No, I mean generally.

I try to be the best person I can. I believe that shitty behaviour breeds shitty behaviour, so (even when it's really difficult) if I can step up and do the decent and right thing when others aren't, it might encourage others to as well. If I didn't believe in positive acts having a chain reaction, I'd have given up on everything a long time ago.

I try to set the best example I can for my son. I fuck up, I make mistakes (more often than I would prefer), and I don't hide them from him. I want him to see me be accountable - holding my hands up and accepting responsibility, making amends, learning and growing from those experiences - so that hopefully he will learn from me to do the same. And that applies to everyone else in my life too.

But being such a person isn't the same as being "nice". When I asked myself a moment ago if I was a nice guy, I realised that whatever I might think of myself or whomever I aspire to be the only people who can say are the people who have experienced me; those people will tell you very different things.

I have friends who will gladly tell anybody who will listen that I'm an amazing, peaceful, caring, joy to have in the world. The nicest of guys, if you like. That is their truth. I have other friends who will tell you (and me) that I'm a dick. And that is also true. I've had people work for me who will tell you I was empathetic, fair and inspiring, and I've had people work for me who would swear I was an absolute bastard. These don't have to be mutually exclusive. And this rolls right on through a whole gamut of people out there who feel everything about me from the most positive through to actively wishing me physical harm/ill.

Of the people who think less than favourably of me, sometimes that is literally because I haven't been nice. Maybe I saw somebody I thought was being a dick, so I got arsey with them. Maybe I let some people down and didn't feel all that bothered by it at the time. Maybe I was provoked and somebody saw a side of me they didn't like. Maybe it was ME who was the dick, and some people decided they weren't going to tolerate that.

I didn't think this reply through before I started typing; it has all just come out in a big SPLEURGGH. There is a point in here somewhere, or maybe I've missed the point I first thought I wanted to say. Maybe the point is that nobody is ever really "a nice guy" because we are all constantly changing and our personalities have a beautiful array of facets, like a diamond. Or maybe it's that we can be nice guys, monsters, and everything in-between all at the same time - it just depends on whose storybook you are reading from.

[ge****]

10 minutes ago, Aranhis said:

I keep seeing little tangents branch off from this post, and I don't know whether typical forum debate/input was intended but somewhere along the way something got me thinking.

Am I a nice guy? Not necessarily in the sense we are even talking about, the sickeningly OTT schmaltzy types who never let that side of them drop EVER - or are we? No, I mean generally.

I try to be the best person I can. I believe that shitty behaviour breeds shitty behaviour, so (even when it's really difficult) if I can step up and do the decent and right thing when others aren't, it might encourage others to as well. If I didn't believe in positive acts having a chain reaction, I'd have given up on everything a long time ago.

I try to set the best example I can for my son. I fuck up, I make mistakes (more often than I would prefer), and I don't hide them from him. I want him to see me be accountable - holding my hands up and accepting responsibility, making amends, learning and growing from those experiences - so that hopefully he will learn from me to do the same. And that applies to everyone else in my life too.

But being such a person isn't the same as being "nice". When I asked myself a moment ago if I was a nice guy, I realised that whatever I might think of myself or whomever I aspire to be the only people who can say are the people who have experienced me; those people will tell you very different things.

I have friends who will gladly tell anybody who will listen that I'm an amazing, peaceful, caring, joy to have in the world. The nicest of guys, if you like. That is their truth. I have other friends who will tell you (and me) that I'm a dick. And that is also true. I've had people work for me who will tell you I was empathetic, fair and inspiring, and I've had people work for me who would swear I was an absolute bastard. These don't have to be mutually exclusive. And this rolls right on through a whole gamut of people out there who feel everything about me from the most positive through to actively wishing me physical harm/ill.

Of the people who think less than favourably of me, sometimes that is literally because I haven't been nice. Maybe I saw somebody I thought was being a dick, so I got arsey with them. Maybe I let some people down and didn't feel all that bothered by it at the time. Maybe I was provoked and somebody saw a side of me they didn't like. Maybe it was ME who was the dick, and some people decided they weren't going to tolerate that.

I didn't think this reply through before I started typing; it has all just come out in a big SPLEURGGH. There is a point in here somewhere, or maybe I've missed the point I first thought I wanted to say. Maybe the point is that nobody is ever really "a nice guy" because we are all constantly changing and our personalities have a beautiful array of facets, like a diamond. Or maybe it's that we can be nice guys, monsters, and everything in-between all at the same time - it just depends on whose storybook you are reading from.

You made the point perfectly and eloquently and it's what I think whenever I see the "but I'm a nice guy" type posts....ergo the poster may *think* they are nice, they may even have been told they are nice, but no-one, absolutely no-one is 100% "nice" to all people, all of the time - it's a subjective thing and more to the point a subjective thing that cannot be self-ascribed or appointed.
.
In fact I'd go as far as to say anyone that describes themselves as "nice" is deluding themselves - because they won't be to everyone or even all the time.
.
Nice is actually demonstrated and not told by the person concerned.

[ey****]

Yep.  I think *most* people try to do what they believe is the right thing - and - there's a lot of... contradicting opinions which can still ultimately come from a good place.  

I said on one of the threads that 'nice' isn't a label we can really apply to ourselves but one other people might - and that interpretations are different.

 

[CopperKnob]

48 minutes ago, Aranhis said:

I keep seeing little tangents branch off from this post, and I don't know whether typical forum debate/input was intended but somewhere along the way something got me thinking.

Am I a nice guy? Not necessarily in the sense we are even talking about, the sickeningly OTT schmaltzy types who never let that side of them drop EVER - or are we? No, I mean generally.

I try to be the best person I can. I believe that shitty behaviour breeds shitty behaviour, so (even when it's really difficult) if I can step up and do the decent and right thing when others aren't, it might encourage others to as well. If I didn't believe in positive acts having a chain reaction, I'd have given up on everything a long time ago.

I try to set the best example I can for my son. I fuck up, I make mistakes (more often than I would prefer), and I don't hide them from him. I want him to see me be accountable - holding my hands up and accepting responsibility, making amends, learning and growing from those experiences - so that hopefully he will learn from me to do the same. And that applies to everyone else in my life too.

But being such a person isn't the same as being "nice". When I asked myself a moment ago if I was a nice guy, I realised that whatever I might think of myself or whomever I aspire to be the only people who can say are the people who have experienced me; those people will tell you very different things.

I have friends who will gladly tell anybody who will listen that I'm an amazing, peaceful, caring, joy to have in the world. The nicest of guys, if you like. That is their truth. I have other friends who will tell you (and me) that I'm a dick. And that is also true. I've had people work for me who will tell you I was empathetic, fair and inspiring, and I've had people work for me who would swear I was an absolute bastard. These don't have to be mutually exclusive. And this rolls right on through a whole gamut of people out there who feel everything about me from the most positive through to actively wishing me physical harm/ill.

Of the people who think less than favourably of me, sometimes that is literally because I haven't been nice. Maybe I saw somebody I thought was being a dick, so I got arsey with them. Maybe I let some people down and didn't feel all that bothered by it at the time. Maybe I was provoked and somebody saw a side of me they didn't like. Maybe it was ME who was the dick, and some people decided they weren't going to tolerate that.

I didn't think this reply through before I started typing; it has all just come out in a big SPLEURGGH. There is a point in here somewhere, or maybe I've missed the point I first thought I wanted to say. Maybe the point is that nobody is ever really "a nice guy" because we are all constantly changing and our personalities have a beautiful array of facets, like a diamond. Or maybe it's that we can be nice guys, monsters, and everything in-between all at the same time - it just depends on whose storybook you are reading from.

This!

There's a book about 'nice guy syndrome' that suggests various factors for the 'syndrome' one is a lack of positive male role models in the formative years so it's great that you're sharing all of you with your son

I think that my issue with the self-professed nice guy, is that they claim to be nice yet become irritated and frustrated easily, as they fail to get anywhere with their niceness as we've seen on another post.

They act nice but they are not. They believe that their niceness entitles them to something, generally the time and energy from/of women. So actually, they are not nice, they are entitled.

When someone says that they're a nice guy, it's a red flag. No genuinely nice person has to advertise their core quality/s. No one needs to put up a flashing neon sign, you just need to act like one without trying to convince us that you can behave.

And yeah, humans have various responses to external stimuli, we aren't nice all the time. It's subjective dependent upon how I interact with another person at any given time and that may vary dependent upon a whole host of variables

[RAMB]

I agree!some nice guys are right in front of you?he may have flaws who doesnt?will he be tru to you?that depends on how you treat him sometimes?me for example i am tru,dependable,and spankable

[ol****]

Anybody who feels the need to claim they are a nice guy probably isn't one.

As in all things actions speak louder than words. 

I also suspect that one girls nice guy is another girls doormat.