Taking things personal

[Da****]

Why do people take things personal when someone else has a different opinion or perspective on a topic??? We are all allowed to have our own opinions. We all don't have to agree...

[Deleted Member]

Ego.... people like a "my way or the highway" vibe which is can be domineering in my view not Dominant. People are limited in tolerating others and there's not enough kindness in the world. Live and let live because that will create more peace in your mind
🔥🧙‍♀️🔥

[Ch****]

I think closed minded, ive seen this topic on other sites, seen the arguements, had the arguements 😂

[dorion]

I agree. I have long observed this problem on online communities. I'm not talking particularly about kink.

Imagine  I say something amounting to "X sucks," e.g., "blue is boring" in a discussion about house colours or something. I am then bombarded with accusations that I am attacking the personal preferences of others. In in some circumstances such an assessment might be correct: but often I'm simply stating my personal opinion.

My preference is interpreted as an attack. The response to me is then also an attack on my preference. What irony: both sides end up feeling that their preferences are being excluded.

The usual solution is to hedge, salting everything with "in my opinion," your mileage may vary," and so forth. I detest that solution. Why? Because to have a good argument, to really sort something out, people need to assert strong positions. When everything is a hedged, it just ends up looking like mush. See how much more effective that sentence is than this one: "When everything is hedged, it seems to me - you may disagree - that everything ends up looking kind of mushy."

Furthermore it implies that I and the audience are insecure. It's really no skin off my back what colours (or whatevers) you like or dislike. We all need our preferences affirmed for them to be valid. Maybe someone looks at the slave stuff in my profile and thinks I've got some kind of psychological issue. Fine! I am comfortable with myself, so I'm not bothered - nor am I even offended. But neither am I perfect: maybe the person has a good point to make. Such things do happen. (And often one gains an insight different from the point made by the other person.)

When strongly-stated personal opinions are taken as attacks on others, everything gets hedged, nothing can be right or wrong, everything ends up being personal preference, everyone gets affirmed - and people end up being even more sensitized if someone doesn't follow those rules. I don't think it's healthy. (See? I'm hedging. An excellent book on this: After Virtue by Alasdair MacIntyre.)

It seems likely to me that there must be a deeper underlying issue. Maybe it's because we're talking to strangers. Maybe a lot of people are not secure in who they are, so on the one hand crave affirmation from others, and on the other are more likely to actually attack diverging opinions in order to bolster their own feelings. Maybe it's the lack of cues that one would have in face-to-face conversation leads to misunderstandings. Maybe it's the permanence of written words that can't be taken back and adjusted in the moment. (I far prefer dealing with important things by speaking rather than writing, because I can adjust to the other person's reactions and correct for misinterpretations and tone.) Maybe it's that a major role of communication is not to transmit information or strive for truth, but to establish solidarity ("You like blue? Me too!") and friend-enemy distinctions. Maybe it's a style difference in the typical communication strategies of men and women. Maybe I'm just out of step that I prefer forthright aggressive claims to always being cautious that someone somewhere might be offended. (In which case fine: as I said, I'm comfortable with myself.)

It kind of doesn't matter. Regardless of my thoughts on this, if I want to communicate effectively, I can't be sidetracked by tone. I put in my hedges and my "your mileage-may-vary"s, try to get them out of the way, and then go on to make my point. Is that so hard? Generally not. I guess what bothers me is not the etiquette (which is what it amounts to), but what I called the "mushy" result above. (You can call that a preference. If all preferences are valid...) Have I navigated stating a strong argument in this comment without appearing intolerant? We'll see.

To bring this down to BDSM, probably some preferences are in some ways not healthy for some people. Which preferences? Which people? I don't know. I don't have anything in particular in mind. What's good for one person may not be good for another. I am not in a good position to judge. But - and I suspect some might find this statement intolerant - I don't think that means that every preference is harmless. Maybe not even mine. (If you really are comfortable with yourself, I figure you have to be willing to countenance being wrong.) I am not - absolutely not - proposing than any such argument about good and bad should be had here. It would be destructive and useless.

[AKA_Copper]

22 minutes ago, dorion said:

I agree. I have long observed this problem on online communities. I'm not talking particularly about kink.

Imagine  I say something amounting to "X sucks," e.g., "blue is boring" in a discussion about house colours or something. I am then bombarded with accusations that I am attacking the personal preferences of others. In in some circumstances such an assessment might be correct: but often I'm simply stating my personal opinion.

My preference is interpreted as an attack. The response to me is then also an attack on my preference. What irony: both sides end up feeling that their preferences are being excluded.

The usual solution is to hedge, salting everything with "in my opinion," your mileage may vary," and so forth. I detest that solution. Why? Because to have a good argument, to really sort something out, people need to assert strong positions. When everything is a hedged, it just ends up looking like mush. See how much more effective that sentence is than this one: "When everything is hedged, it seems to me - you may disagree - that everything ends up looking kind of mushy."

Furthermore it implies that I and the audience are insecure. It's really no skin off my back what colours (or whatevers) you like or dislike. We all need our preferences affirmed for them to be valid. Maybe someone looks at the slave stuff in my profile and thinks I've got some kind of psychological issue. Fine! I am comfortable with myself, so I'm not bothered - nor am I even offended. But neither am I perfect: maybe the person has a good point to make. Such things do happen. (And often one gains an insight different from the point made by the other person.)

When strongly-stated personal opinions are taken as attacks on others, everything gets hedged, nothing can be right or wrong, everything ends up being personal preference, everyone gets affirmed - and people end up being even more sensitized if someone doesn't follow those rules. I don't think it's healthy. (See? I'm hedging. An excellent book on this: After Virtue by Alasdair MacIntyre.)

It seems likely to me that there must be a deeper underlying issue. Maybe it's because we're talking to strangers. Maybe a lot of people are not secure in who they are, so on the one hand crave affirmation from others, and on the other are more likely to actually attack diverging opinions in order to bolster their own feelings. Maybe it's the lack of cues that one would have in face-to-face conversation leads to misunderstandings. Maybe it's the permanence of written words that can't be taken back and adjusted in the moment. (I far prefer dealing with important things by speaking rather than writing, because I can adjust to the other person's reactions and correct for misinterpretations and tone.) Maybe it's that a major role of communication is not to transmit information or strive for truth, but to establish solidarity ("You like blue? Me too!") and friend-enemy distinctions. Maybe it's a style difference in the typical communication strategies of men and women. Maybe I'm just out of step that I prefer forthright aggressive claims to always being cautious that someone somewhere might be offended. (In which case fine: as I said, I'm comfortable with myself.)

It kind of doesn't matter. Regardless of my thoughts on this, if I want to communicate effectively, I can't be sidetracked by tone. I put in my hedges and my "your mileage-may-vary"s, try to get them out of the way, and then go on to make my point. Is that so hard? Generally not. I guess what bothers me is not the etiquette (which is what it amounts to), but what I called the "mushy" result above. (You can call that a preference. If all preferences are valid...) Have I navigated stating a strong argument in this comment without appearing intolerant? We'll see.

To bring this down to BDSM, probably some preferences are in some ways not healthy for some people. Which preferences? Which people? I don't know. I don't have anything in particular in mind. What's good for one person may not be good for another. I am not in a good position to judge. But - and I suspect some might find this statement intolerant - I don't think that means that every preference is harmless. Maybe not even mine. (If you really are comfortable with yourself, I figure you have to be willing to countenance being wrong.) I am not - absolutely not - proposing than any such argument about good and bad should be had here. It would be destructive and useless.

Hey!! How very dare you, my house is blue!! 😡😂🤣

[dorion]

16 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

Hey!! How very dare you, my house is blue!! 😡😂🤣

Come to think of it, so is mine...

[ey****]

a lot of people sometimes struggle a bit between attacking the argument and attacking the person.   But equally someone feeling their argument is constantly being attacked might take it personally, just as we may form opinions on people we consistently agree, or disagree, with.

 

[Th****]

14 hours ago, Daddy-n-Paddy said:

Why do people take things personal when someone else has a different opinion or perspective on a topic??? We are all allowed to have our own opinions. We all don't have to agree...

it very true, but unfortunately opinions are like assholes everybody's got one, so theres always going to be a conflict of mind, as they see any differing to their opinions as a personal attack on them.

[Aquarius_Dom]

Mainly because it’s far to easy to sit behind a keyboard and make judgments! 
Whatever happened to “your kink is not my kink but I respect your kink” 

 

[ey****]

15 minutes ago, Old_Grey_Beard said:

Whatever happened to “your kink is not my kink but I respect your kink” 

it's one of the biggest myths in kink

among a lot of things there has to be a paradoxical side  - including anything that is dangerous or immoral or so on.

I mean, what if someone's kink is sitting behind a keyboard judging others? You just disrespected their kink. 

[Chloebear]

Partly the lack of accountability/visible emotional reactivity of being behind a keyboard. Maybe because if you are riled up, your ‘emotional brain’ gets activated, making you more lukey to say rash, reactive or personal things. Likely also because when a person defends their core values these are typically very embedded, so people react as though attacked pretty quickly and they are not as often open to discussion - in fact with core values, persisting with opposing beliefs can double someone down on argument. We can overcome these things, but it takes focus.

[ey****]

oe of the big things in kink in general actually as well, excluding blatant idiots

is that a lot of people come from wildly different backgrounds and teachings.  

And I'm not saying anyone is wrong, or everyone is right, but a lot is in what they were taught or exposed to

So - a lot almost get thrown that someone does things another way : but we've all got our own bastardised version of tradition.

"How dare you call yourself a Master, you're only 20 - I'm *however old* and had to go through *however many* years of training to be able to call myself Master"

Well then there was a key part missing from your training, and that is that 'earned' titles can only be used around those you earned them from, so you can't call yourself Master either.

And then in a lot of the OG (like the *actual* OG, not 90s protocol) titles were chosen by individuals of what they most felt comfortable with.  

And there's a lot of things people weren't exposed to - so don't understand it or don't see it as part of their kink and, therefore, do not see it as part of kink and either think it's a "new idea" and diluting kink or think it's not part and so on.  In ways, they might have been doing 20 years of kink and in their circles never came across certain ideas - and - that's understandable it might throw them

Mind, there's also a lot who will state what they think things 'should' be like which usually involves them being able to get play/relationships easier and that's of course entitlement and should be called out. 

[Da****]

I have had it happen more than once. I like when people have different opinions on a subject, it helps me to see other aspects that I may not think of. When I have voiced my opinion, I tend to always say that I disagree but I respect thier opinion..

[ey****]

I think the other thing also - is there are times when people are making it personal; sometimes covetly.

and that can shape how people see other comments 

[Deleted Member]

Some people just can't handle having their views and opinions challenged. Some people also can't grasp the concept that they can be wrong or misinformed. I don't think it's unique to kink as I suspect they react the same way in other aspects of their lives.

[AKA_Copper]

I think some of it is down to reading comprehension/interpretation and reading with our/their own lens.
Sometimes I'll post and the comments have taken it in a direction I honestly never saw coming.
I know sometimes I'll read a post/comment and think "WHAT?!?!?!" But when I come back to it it reads quite differently. Sometimes I think it's beneficial to read something twice having a space to think before you add your own thoughts. Just like, when at work and receiving an email which frustrates the hell out of you, walking round the block ranting and raving in your head but being able to reply calmly when you've got back to the laptop 🤣

[Th****]

In my experience people do take what is purely an opinion as a personal slight.

E.G.

20 years old is too young to be a Master IMHO (not really just an example.)

But if the reader is 20 and calls himself a Master then he is far more likely to go on the defensive rather than taking the comment as just an opinion.

Everyone's journey and experience is different and that will shape their response and reactions to what they read. I am sure there are certain things I will have to read several times before I can give a balanced reply.

[Deleted Member]

A lot of people forget the magical formula: “in my opinion”. After some decades of d/s related chats I must say that this is one of the environments where people tend to most make an “absolute” of what’s “relative”. And feels compelled to “correct” others. Which is the total BS. One can write “ok, that is how you see it, I see it differently, that is etc etc”. That is an exchange of opinions. But, no! It’s all a “if you say so, then…”. Then what? Everyone is the result of multiple experiences. And none of them, although resembling the experiences of others, produces the same effects. Different sensitivities, and - yes, like it or not - different ethics. Provided one doesn’t brake the laws, my ethic and approach is not better nor worse than those of anybody else. Just my 5 cents.

[Deleted Member]

Noticed lots of heated debates.💣💥😨

[Da****]

3 hours ago, RopesAndBallgag said:

A lot of people forget the magical formula: “in my opinion”. After some decades of d/s related chats I must say that this is one of the environments where people tend to most make an “absolute” of what’s “relative”. And feels compelled to “correct” others. Which is the total BS. One can write “ok, that is how you see it, I see it differently, that is etc etc”. That is an exchange of opinions. But, no! It’s all a “if you say so, then…”. Then what? Everyone is the result of multiple experiences. And none of them, although resembling the experiences of others, produces the same effects. Different sensitivities, and - yes, like it or not - different ethics. Provided one doesn’t brake the laws, my ethic and approach is not better nor worse than those of anybody else. Just my 5 cents.

Is there a reason we should need to put "in my opinion"? Why can't we just assume that the person is giving their opinion, whether they agree or disagree with the other person's opinion? Why do a lot of people take it ad an attack on themselves and not just a discussion. I agree with you that we are all a sum of our individual experiences and that is what makes the differences between people a good thing and why we need to respect each other's opinions,even when they are not ours.

[sm****]

ego and sitting behind a keyboard on the tinternet has  a lot to answer for as it has no real life accountability.

It's not just kink sites and opinions, spend any time on any social media, chatrooms or forums and you will see someone always calling "bo^^ocks" to some question being posed and wanting genuine answers.  You also get the same topics that are bound to goad replies destined to make the topic a shitshow.

99% of these people love an ego boost to show they can be edgy but wouldn't even have the guts to say things in the real world.

The internet is a great tool but misused in the wrong hands.

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, Daddy-n-Paddy said:

Is there a reason we should need to put "in my opinion"? Why can't we just assume that the person is giving their opinion, whether they agree or disagree with the other person's opinion? Why do a lot of people take it ad an attack on themselves and not just a discussion. I agree with you that we are all a sum of our individual experiences and that is what makes the differences between people a good thing and why we need to respect each other's opinions,even when they are not ours.

If you read, on the other thread, tone and content of that “Bodyguard”-boy, maybe you’ll realize why it was due for me to tell him to pipe down, he not being god and even less a d/s god. I won’t copy/paste. Too many people wishing to state what’s right and what not, as if they knew it all. The only thing I disagree with you, Daddy, is about the “assumption”. Stating things like “this is my opinion” is (in my opinion) extremely important as a remark of the fact that others can see it differently. On this, I won’t get lectured by Bodyguard, nor from anyone else. Ciao 🍺

[Chloebear]

3 hours ago, RopesAndBallgag said:

If you read, on the other thread, tone and content of that “Bodyguard”-boy, maybe you’ll realize why it was due for me to tell him to pipe down, he not being god and even less a d/s god. I won’t copy/paste. Too many people wishing to state what’s right and what not, as if they knew it all. The only thing I disagree with you, Daddy, is about the “assumption”. Stating things like “this is my opinion” is (in my opinion) extremely important as a remark of the fact that others can see it differently. On this, I won’t get lectured by Bodyguard, nor from anyone else. Ciao 🍺

Your tone in this response is, on the other hand, completely reasonable. Oh no wait…. Before you state that other people are the issue, look at your own phrasing and responses. They are typically pretty confrontational and/or antagonistic. Slating someone on another thread… not classy.

Mod can we either get that removed or end comments? Many thanks.

[Chloebear]

Ps stating ‘in my opinion’ is not a license to proceed with being rude etc. It’s an excuse.

[AKA_Copper]

@ropesandballgag and @daddy-n-paddy
It's clear that the two of you don't see eye to eye.
Why not simply scroll past each other? There's no need to keep interacting with each other.