Problem in open marriage

[Sa****]

1 hour ago, ThaliaVirago said:

After a quick glance at your profile it's far from the worst I've seen, plus you've only been here a month it looks like. That's unfortunately not much different than having joined today as far as the amount of patience often needed. 

 

Flesh out your profile some more, see if your partner will join as well and link the accounts to show you're on the up and up, participate in the forums and conversations. Reset your expectations to meeting interesting people and having good conversations first. It really helps ease the frustration. 

Thank you and a few others for the tips regarding the real issue. The only reason I haven't brought it up to my Mrs yet about joining, is she's already pretty active and focused on Fetlife. And I don't want her to feel like she's "screening" who i speak with, for lack of better term. But a good discussion with her can probably set this straight.

[Th****]

3 hours ago, SatanLaughed said:

Thank you and a few others for the tips regarding the real issue. The only reason I haven't brought it up to my Mrs yet about joining, is she's already pretty active and focused on Fetlife. And I don't want her to feel like she's "screening" who i speak with, for lack of better term. But a good discussion with her can probably set this straight.

I totally get that and understand, I'm on both and they're fairly different. But it's kind of an unfortunate sort of thing. Maybe start at least with the other suggestions and add a line on your profile that says she's available to verify, but only if she is. She could also join and make a profile that's connected and she doesn't really have to be very active. I offered what I felt like what would be most helpful as did others. It's up to you to decide what you want to go with or not. But the biggest thing regardless will be *patience*. 

[Th****]

3 hours ago, lakeland539213 said:

@ThaliaVirago. If you have the option for both solo n couples dates, it does not cut out Hetero women. Everything you said I totally agree with.

I'm a little confused by your comment. It sounds like you don't agree but then you say you do? 

I just know that for *me* personally as a very mostly hetero woman I'm not interested in dating women/a couple. Could totally be friendly towards someone's other woman partner but I don't want her for a partner myself. 

[Ha****]

@ThaliaVirago, just the part about including the Wife to pick up couples fun or FMF 3somesomes, cutting out his chances with hetero females. It doesn't if they continue the option to solo dates. I agree having the wife available on the site to give potential partners the opportunity to see it's a legit open/poly marriage but including her as an option for couples or 3somse as well as the option to date women without her involved in play but available to verify the status of the relationship totally still puts Hetero females up as an option. That's how me n my primary do it. Sometimes we solo but prefer to play with others together.

[ge****]

8 hours ago, ThaliaVirago said:

. Yes *technically* there may be 100 men to choose from but most women still have standards and are discerning. Just because there may be numerous options it doesn't mean there are any she'd actually want. A lot of men seem to not realize that we very often choose no one. 

This last part is what I was referring to in my previous post - ultimately when you take away the men who just don't get sites like this, and their "interest" in any women - the numbers actually balance out a lot more evenly.

It keeps coming back to the quantity vs quality thing really - however you need to also accept that as effectively a single man on sites like this you need to make yourself stand out for that balance to be found.

[ey****]

19 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

This last part is what I was referring to in my previous post - ultimately when you take away the men who just don't get sites like this, and their "interest" in any women - the numbers actually balance out a lot more evenly.

 

yep - exactly.

Let's say there are 100 men (there's not) - but you subtract the ones who are too far away, subtract the ones who have no/poor profile, subtract the ones where it's not what the person is looking for (i.e. they're a Dom but the person wants a sub or vice versa - they're mono, but wants poly - they want NSA, but you want a relationship) and it's a narrower field before we even get into any form of compatibility etc.

 

When folk say it's "easier for women" I do often feel there's a lot of projection and a little what it's saying is "men have low standards" and this is something men also have to raise.  That, I guess, for the sake of argument - if they got a message that went "Hey, want to meet for sex/play/whatever - imminently" how many would jump at this rather than be "but do I actually wanted to, with them" and doing any form of due diligence.  See also : why men get scammed so easily. 

[Deleted Member]

8 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

yep - exactly.

Let's say there are 100 men (there's not) - but you subtract the ones who are too far away, subtract the ones who have no/poor profile, subtract the ones where it's not what the person is looking for (i.e. they're a Dom but the person wants a sub or vice versa - they're mono, but wants poly - they want NSA, but you want a relationship) and it's a narrower field before we even get into any form of compatibility etc.

 

When folk say it's "easier for women" I do often feel there's a lot of projection and a little what it's saying is "men have low standards" and this is something men also have to raise.  That, I guess, for the sake of argument - if they got a message that went "Hey, want to meet for sex/play/whatever - imminently" how many would jump at this rather than be "but do I actually wanted to, with them" and doing any form of due diligence.  See also : why men get scammed so easily. 

I think the main reason why women do find it easier, is there are still very much gendered expectations in the etiquette of dating apps, sites, and real life too. Men predominantly have to make the initial approach, effort, message etc. If you're not doing this, you won't talk to 95 out of 100 women who may even actually be interested. And it creates and perpetuates this loop, as men find effort and high standards don't necessarily create connections (Apps have a part to play in this too, but thankfully Fet doesn't have the issues some apps have which contribute to this... But that's an entire different conversation), so will resort to lower effort approaches, which then fill up the inboxes of women who then have to filter through that low effort. Men do need to do better, but so do women. It's why scammers work, because a woman initiating stands out so much.

[ge****]

1 hour ago, 109thStar said:

I think the main reason why women do find it easier, is there are still very much gendered expectations in the etiquette of dating apps, sites, and real life too. Men predominantly have to make the initial approach, effort, message etc. If you're not doing this, you won't talk to 95 out of 100 women who may even actually be interested. And it creates and perpetuates this loop, as men find effort and high standards don't necessarily create connections (Apps have a part to play in this too, but thankfully Fet doesn't have the issues some apps have which contribute to this... But that's an entire different conversation), so will resort to lower effort approaches, which then fill up the inboxes of women who then have to filter through that low effort. Men do need to do better, but so do women. It's why scammers work, because a woman initiating stands out so much.

Sorry, but completely disagree - especially with the "women have to do better" comment - how do they have to do better and why should they?
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I'd also disagree that men *have* to make the initial approach - I rarely do, and interact with plenty of people here and on other sites I've been on, the overwhelming majority of whom have been women.
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Yes, men have to make an effort to stand out - but that should be the case anyway if they hope to have their expectations met, the sad fact is many don't.
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I keep coming back to this point, but if you take away all the men that simply don't "get" how sites like this work - you're left with a fairly balanced split of men to women, with *those* men being quite happy with their experience.

[ey****]

1 hour ago, 109thStar said:

Men predominantly have to make the initial approach, effort, message etc. If you're not doing this, you won't talk to 95 out of 100 women who may even actually be interested. And it creates and perpetuates this loop, as men find effort and high standards don't necessarily create connections

I will tell you what I've found.

So. I actually message very few people first.  

I think over around the last 12 months or so on this site I've messaged 3 people first.  2 of those got a conversation going, a 66% success rate.  That's not to say there haven't been others who interested me in that time - but, for whatever reason I felt they wouldn't be interested in me, or I couldn't offer what they were looking for - so on.  

Now, I also have a slight advantage that if I decided to message someone I had had rapport with on the forums - they already know who I am and would see my name and might be more likely to read the message than if it was an unknown name.  In fact a couple of people I met up with recently from elsewhere was just that.

This is obviously a longer process.  But by messaging 3 people I was specifically interested in, 2 at least replied enough for a conversation (one we had discussed meeting, nerves got the better of her, I would not be against resuming the conversation if she returned to the site) 

The kinda thing though that some guys do is they're slightly less selective and also as you say, take lower effort approaches.  This yields poor results.   Someone who messages 30 people and gets 3 replies has more replies than I got, but only 10% from who they contacted and they might very much find a lack of compatibility quickly.

I'm not saying folk should be as slow on me (mind, while it's 3 people on here, it's not 3 people total everywhere - as well as some old friends in the past 12 months I've done some form of play with about half a dozen new-to-me people) but definitely not trying to rip through messaging the entire site within a couple of weeks of sign up

 

There is another story which isn't quite mine to tell - but - there is a lady who was on here who took on board what a lot of men had said about it being so hard.  So, she had over time took it upon herself to reach out to people she was interested in.   This sadly didn't go as she wanted.   Some comments back included people accusing her of being a scammer and wanting her to take ridiculous photos to prove she was real (she rightfully refused.) and some others glossed over some of the "let's get to know each other" bit and pushed for a meet or sex talk quickly.

Now, of course, with that in mind - had she have been happy to drop her knickers (or kick off her shoes for the foot boys) that night/weekend then it was certainly an easy result - but doing the exact type of behaviour men claimed they wanted didn't go as well as they implied it would.  

 

[Deleted Member]

52 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

Sorry, but completely disagree - especially with the "women have to do better" comment - how do they have to do better and why should they?
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I'd also disagree that men *have* to make the initial approach - I rarely do, and interact with plenty of people here and on other sites I've been on, the overwhelming majority of whom have been women.
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Yes, men have to make an effort to stand out - but that should be the case anyway if they hope to have their expectations met, the sad fact is many don't.
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I keep coming back to this point, but if you take away all the men that simply don't "get" how sites like this work - you're left with a fairly balanced split of men to women, with *those* men being quite happy with their experience.

I will say I'm new to this app, so if the dynamic is different here, then I'll be pleasantly surprised.

But with my experience in other apps, both kink/fetish related, and more general dating, and discussions with both men and women using them, what I say holds true. For reference, I'm part of a couple of communities focused on dating and relationship support... Mostly vanilla, so again, if there are differences here, I'll hope to see that over time, but I'm coming from a place where I've heard a lot of people's experiences.

When I say women need to do better, it was a response to the idea that men need to do better. The problems that exist in most apps designed to meet people aren't men problems, or women problems, they are people problems. The normal dynamic on apps is an imbalanced one, in both directions, but for different reasons. There are shitty men out there, absolutely, just as there are shitty women, but even once you take them out of the equation, I feel like you're using kind of backwards logic. If you're happy, you're doing it right, and if not, you don't get it. I'm sure I've heard scientologists make the same argument XD, and while I don't say that with full seriousness, I do personally feel it's often problematic argument to make.

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I will tell you what I've found.

So. I actually message very few people first.  

I think over around the last 12 months or so on this site I've messaged 3 people first.  2 of those got a conversation going, a 66% success rate.  That's not to say there haven't been others who interested me in that time - but, for whatever reason I felt they wouldn't be interested in me, or I couldn't offer what they were looking for - so on.  

Now, I also have a slight advantage that if I decided to message someone I had had rapport with on the forums - they already know who I am and would see my name and might be more likely to read the message than if it was an unknown name.  In fact a couple of people I met up with recently from elsewhere was just that.

This is obviously a longer process.  But by messaging 3 people I was specifically interested in, 2 at least replied enough for a conversation (one we had discussed meeting, nerves got the better of her, I would not be against resuming the conversation if she returned to the site) 

The kinda thing though that some guys do is they're slightly less selective and also as you say, take lower effort approaches.  This yields poor results.   Someone who messages 30 people and gets 3 replies has more replies than I got, but only 10% from who they contacted and they might very much find a lack of compatibility quickly.

I'm not saying folk should be as slow on me (mind, while it's 3 people on here, it's not 3 people total everywhere - as well as some old friends in the past 12 months I've done some form of play with about half a dozen new-to-me people) but definitely not trying to rip through messaging the entire site within a couple of weeks of sign up

 

There is another story which isn't quite mine to tell - but - there is a lady who was on here who took on board what a lot of men had said about it being so hard.  So, she had over time took it upon herself to reach out to people she was interested in.   This sadly didn't go as she wanted.   Some comments back included people accusing her of being a scammer and wanting her to take ridiculous photos to prove she was real (she rightfully refused.) and some others glossed over some of the "let's get to know each other" bit and pushed for a meet or sex talk quickly.

Now, of course, with that in mind - had she have been happy to drop her knickers (or kick off her shoes for the foot boys) that night/weekend then it was certainly an easy result - but doing the exact type of behaviour men claimed they wanted didn't go as well as they implied it would.  

 

I'm new to this app, so I do actually hope my experience here matches that, my point was a more general one from other apps and sites I've been on, and the dynamic I've seen and heard about from people who are a part of it.

And I agree, a less selective approach gets a lower percentage of results, but often people make the mistake of attributing it to guys with bad motives, whereas my experience is that many end up resorting to that approach, because higher effort and more selective approaches haven't worked, and levels of effort aren't matched even with people who they've matched with. And I'm not saying there aren't a lot of shitty people out there too, but I feel like that's only part of the story.

And I guess that's the shittiest thing of all, that bad actors on both sides cause a lot of distrust and toxic behaviour. Men are suspicious of women being scammers in the same way, for example, women are suspicious of men (such as the OP) who claim to be in open relationships/marriages, of cheating. My only interaction on this app so far was with what I assume to be a bot/scammer, asking me for photos in her second message, so I can't say that was a good start! But I have a lot of respect for women like the one in your story who do put themselves out there and make the effort. I think in general, I maybe initiate 95% of interactions on apps, but most of the best interactions have been when a woman has messaged me first. Partly I guess because I'm sub leaning, and like an assertive woman anyway XD but partly, because I feel like the ideal for any app like this is for good quality, mutual effort and open communication. And as much as men doing better is a part of getting to that, women have their part to play too.

[ey****]

28 minutes ago, 109thStar said:

but often people make the mistake of attributing it to guys with bad motives, whereas my experience is that many end up resorting to that approach, because higher effort and more selective approaches haven't worked, and levels of effort aren't matched even with people who they've matched with

so yeah, I'd agree.  there's a lot of people who don't have bad motives and probably aren't bad guys.

the rule they sometimes forget is the recipient doesn't know that.  

the failures of these guys is patience.  so they might have tried a bit more effort (or maybe never saw the point) and then gave up and lowered their effort - and that's a lack of patience.  But it's also a toxic trait, like, if they don't get what they want from a relationship are they just going to stop trying, when relationships do need worked on.

The peace to find - and this is true on any site, any dynamic, etc. is to never be desperate for a relationship and accept it might take a while.  Depending on what the individual is looking for they can take the time to improve their own prospects.  Cos, like, the surefire jackpot is when a woman contacts them first - and, to do that, they need to work on what makes them appealing that women would contact them first.

 

[ge****]

1 hour ago, 109thStar said:

I will say I'm new to this app, so if the dynamic is different here, then I'll be pleasantly surprised.

But with my experience in other apps, both kink/fetish related, and more general dating, and discussions with both men and women using them, what I say holds true. For reference, I'm part of a couple of communities focused on dating and relationship support... Mostly vanilla, so again, if there are differences here, I'll hope to see that over time, but I'm coming from a place where I've heard a lot of people's experiences.

When I say women need to do better, it was a response to the idea that men need to do better. The problems that exist in most apps designed to meet people aren't men problems, or women problems, they are people problems. The normal dynamic on apps is an imbalanced one, in both directions, but for different reasons. There are shitty men out there, absolutely, just as there are shitty women, but even once you take them out of the equation, I feel like you're using kind of backwards logic. If you're happy, you're doing it right, and if not, you don't get it. I'm sure I've heard scientologists make the same argument XD, and while I don't say that with full seriousness, I do personally feel it's often problematic argument to make.

Like you I've been around apps and sites like this, so more than just this one, for quite some time and my post was based on those experiences both my own and what I have gleaned in that time, and I stand by all I've said.
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It's not backwards logic in the slightest, you only have to take a look at the number of threads here, and elsewhere, where men bemoan their "luck" and lack of "success" are offered sound advice by the very people they're hoping to attract, or those who are happy with their experiences - yet choose to ignore that advice, or in some cases argue against it - and it's mostly because they are looking for excuses to pin their self-perceived lack of "success" to rather than actually take the advice on board and make changes....now *that* is backwards logic!!
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I still fail to see what women could do better too? Respond to more messages? Why should they if the messages are so crass or simply don't merit a response? Be more receptive to anyone contacting them? Same answer. Spend more time contacting men first? As I've said, they do, they're just more selective than men are - so if a guy hasn't put effort into his profile and pics or shown he's a decent guy on the forums, why would they make that initial contact.
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And yes there are shitty women out there, that's undeniable, but by comparison to the number of shitty men, they're a minority.
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Ultimately it's perfectly possible for anyone to get on with sites like this, there are no guarantees of course, but to do so you need to understand how they work, put the right level of effort in, find an approach that works, set expectations and attitudes correctly and back that up with a decent profile and pics along with decent interaction - all of those things are within the control of the individual user, sadly though many think it's as simple as creating a login and it really isn't.

[MisstressStorm]

1 hour ago, 109thStar said:

I'm new to this app, so I do actually hope my experience here matches that, my point was a more general one from other apps and sites I've been on, and the dynamic I've seen and heard about from people who are a part of it.

And I agree, a less selective approach gets a lower percentage of results, but often people make the mistake of attributing it to guys with bad motives, whereas my experience is that many end up resorting to that approach, because higher effort and more selective approaches haven't worked, and levels of effort aren't matched even with people who they've matched with. And I'm not saying there aren't a lot of shitty people out there too, but I feel like that's only part of the story.

And I guess that's the shittiest thing of all, that bad actors on both sides cause a lot of distrust and toxic behaviour. Men are suspicious of women being scammers in the same way, for example, women are suspicious of men (such as the OP) who claim to be in open relationships/marriages, of cheating. My only interaction on this app so far was with what I assume to be a bot/scammer, asking me for photos in her second message, so I can't say that was a good start! But I have a lot of respect for women like the one in your story who do put themselves out there and make the effort. I think in general, I maybe initiate 95% of interactions on apps, but most of the best interactions have been when a woman has messaged me first. Partly I guess because I'm sub leaning, and like an assertive woman anyway XD but partly, because I feel like the ideal for any app like this is for good quality, mutual effort and open communication. And as much as men doing better is a part of getting to that, women have their part to play too.

Women do play our part and it’s quite the shitty end of the stick. “ Not all men are dweebs” but if your DMs are full of self serving, entitled men then you betcha you have to up your game. Whether you like it or not , Women are the sexual gate keepers of our psyche , nothing happens in our knickers unless you switch on the our brains first. It’s a numbers game that is heavily weighted in our favour, cause you are 80% of customers and the 20% of women , not all are interested solely in men 😱⛈

[Deleted Member]

6 hours ago, MisstressStorm said:

Women do play our part and it’s quite the shitty end of the stick. “ Not all men are dweebs” but if your DMs are full of self serving, entitled men then you betcha you have to up your game. Whether you like it or not , Women are the sexual gate keepers of our psyche , nothing happens in our knickers unless you switch on the our brains first. It’s a numbers game that is heavily weighted in our favour, cause you are 80% of customers and the 20% of women , not all are interested solely in men 😱⛈

I don't think it's a competition about shittiness of experience, men and women have different experiences for sure, but whether an inbox with a lot of shitty people is better or worse than an empty inbox is just a matter of perspective. But your last point is kind of what I'm getting at, the numbers game is weighted in favour of women. And no-one is entitled to anything from anyone else, when I'm saying women need to do their bit, it's not about engaging with shitty men. You're always going to have shitty men looking for just sex, and shitty women looking for *** on these things. But it's recognising that women also have a part in why dating app dynamics are so shitty, that there are good and bad in both sides of the dynamic, and that women can be just as bad as men in perpetuating that toxic dynamic, albeit for different reasons.

[ge****]

2 hours ago, 109thStar said:

But your last point is kind of what I'm getting at, the numbers game is weighted in favour of women. 

The thing is though, as I said above, take away the shitty men and shitty women, and that numbers game disappears - what you're left with is a fairly even balance of genders all of whom are happy with their experience.

So it comes down to whether you view it as a numbers game or you choose to look beyond it and see that balance - I know which I do.

[Setrion]

2 hours ago, 109thStar said:

But your last point is kind of what I'm getting at, the numbers game is weighted in favour of women.

This is exactly the point that toxic men like to harp on to bemoan their poor state, but it's a classic case of lying with statistics. If you compare getting 100 apples to getting 5 apples in a void, the former seems naturally superior. but how many of those apples are rotten? If the former group has a rot rate of 99% and the latter only has one rotten apple, which of them is really more?

As Gemini has repeatedly pointed out, women may get more "responses" or "messages sent to them" or whatever, but these numbers are fake. They have no substance. There is no potential for a relationship inside them.

When we look at the actual number that matters, how often is there a chance to make a real connection that can convert to play or a relationship, there is no significant distinction by gender.

People like to say that dating is a numbers game. They're either wrong or lying. Relationships of value don't come about by brute ***; they must be cultivated. I'm not gonna give you some spiritual "love cannot be quantified" bullshit, but seriously, the numbers are a distraction. You have to focus less on the end goal and more on the process; there's no way to get a girlfriend without first forming a friendship. 

[Deleted Member]

57 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

The thing is though, as I said above, take away the shitty men and shitty women, and that numbers game disappears - what you're left with is a fairly even balance of genders all of whom are happy with their experience.

So it comes down to whether you view it as a numbers game or you choose to look beyond it and see that balance - I know which I do.

That doesn't match my experience on any app I've been on simply. I don't want it to be a numbers game, I've never treated anyone I've talked to as though it's a numbers game, but in a macro sense, it is, and being aware of that is one of the ways to keep sane when using these sort of apps XD. If it's different on here, then I'll be happy with that, I've not seen enough to judge.

[Deleted Member]

34 minutes ago, Setrion said:

This is exactly the point that toxic men like to harp on to bemoan their poor state, but it's a classic case of lying with statistics. If you compare getting 100 apples to getting 5 apples in a void, the former seems naturally superior. but how many of those apples are rotten? If the former group has a rot rate of 99% and the latter only has one rotten apple, which of them is really more?

As Gemini has repeatedly pointed out, women may get more "responses" or "messages sent to them" or whatever, but these numbers are fake. They have no substance. There is no potential for a relationship inside them.

When we look at the actual number that matters, how often is there a chance to make a real connection that can convert to play or a relationship, there is no significant distinction by gender.

People like to say that dating is a numbers game. They're either wrong or lying. Relationships of value don't come about by brute ***; they must be cultivated. I'm not gonna give you some spiritual "love cannot be quantified" bullshit, but seriously, the numbers are a distraction. You have to focus less on the end goal and more on the process; there's no way to get a girlfriend without first forming a friendship. 

All I can talk about is my experience with these apps, I'm not talking statistics, because I don't know those numbers, and I'm guessing as you've not mentioned any in particular, I'm guessing neither do you, I just know, qualitatively, the experience of men and women I talk to, and used numbers to illustrate that point, as you've done. I can talk about statistics on match rates and the like because I have looked in to those before, but I feel like that misses the point. Ultimately, if you've not experienced dating apps as a numbers game, then fair enough, but that is the feel of it, and the experience of, a lot of people. Just denying that gets no-one anywhere.

And I'll make this point quickly also, that I agree with your last point completely, because I feel you're reading what I'm saying wrongly. The reality of the balance of apps doesn't mean people should be shitty in their approach to men or women. But men need to go in to these apps understanding the experience women have on them... And women need to go in to these apps understanding the experience men have on them. It isn't a competition, it's empathy and awareness in both directions.

[MisstressStorm]

11 minutes ago, 109thStar said:

All I can talk about is my experience with these apps, I'm not talking statistics, because I don't know those numbers, and I'm guessing as you've not mentioned any in particular, I'm guessing neither do you, I just know, qualitatively, the experience of men and women I talk to, and used numbers to illustrate that point, as you've done. I can talk about statistics on match rates and the like because I have looked in to those before, but I feel like that misses the point. Ultimately, if you've not experienced dating apps as a numbers game, then fair enough, but that is the feel of it, and the experience of, a lot of people. Just denying that gets no-one anywhere.

And I'll make this point quickly also, that I agree with your last point completely, because I feel you're reading what I'm saying wrongly. The reality of the balance of apps doesn't mean people should be shitty in their approach to men or women. But men need to go in to these apps understanding the experience women have on them... And women need to go in to these apps understanding the experience men have on them. It isn't a competition, it's empathy and awareness in both directions.

I have some second hand experience of the type of scammers/blackmailers on sites. I’d say empathy without action is a tick box experience. A number of subs discussed their experiences of scammers with me. They felt embarrassed and ***. How to move forward without  invalidating their lived experience ? A number of Dommes formed a protective, safe space where subs could interact with Mistresses without *** of being blackmailed/scammed. Dominas could flex their Domme muscles and play with the subs, expanding their safe practice. ⛈

[Deleted Member]

53 minutes ago, MisstressStorm said:

I have some second hand experience of the type of scammers/blackmailers on sites. I’d say empathy without action is a tick box experience. A number of subs discussed their experiences of scammers with me. They felt embarrassed and ***. How to move forward without  invalidating their lived experience ? A number of Dommes formed a protective, safe space where subs could interact with Mistresses without *** of being blackmailed/scammed. Dominas could flex their Domme muscles and play with the subs, expanding their safe practice. ⛈

I've been caught once, not under the guise of any D/S dynamic, just an LDR that went wrong. And you're right that action is important, but so is talking. Because I talk daily with people dealing with all types of issues with relationships, dating and other connections (mostly vanilla), I see some amazing people who have had atrocious experiences... And some absolute a**seholes who are full of entitlement. There's some people there are no hope for, but a lot of shitty people are coming from a place where shitty stuff has happened to them, and because they don't have that empathy from the right place, they end up perpetuating it after getting it from the wrong place (look at the rise of Andrew Tate).

And just bringing it back around, I'm not saying it's anyone's particular responsibility to fix that beyond the person themselves. Creating that sort of space for that dynamic should certainly be lauded. I just find when people in general will dismiss or diminish negative male experiences in apps like this, when the truth is that it's often shit for everyone, just for different reasons.

[ey****]

1 hour ago, 109thStar said:

I don't want it to be a numbers game

so the simple is to not treat or think of it like a numbers game.    

Am I interested in this person Y/N

If N - don't contact

If Y - why are you interested? can you show this in a message?

Of course some would say but there's this grey in between where you're not *sure* if someone interests you because there's a lack of info on their profile or whatever - and there's many reasons why there's a lack of info on profiles - so on one hand, it might be best to leave it, on another hand, if you do wish to message then there still must be a reason - and even if the reason is "they're local and around your age" - make a local question "hey, I saw you're not far from me - have you ever been to the munch/fet event/etc" but then also not expect a reply cos the reason for being blank could well be their own uncertainty or nerves.

Take away maths and apply merits.

[ge****]

2 hours ago, 109thStar said:

That doesn't match my experience on any app I've been on simply. I don't want it to be a numbers game, I've never treated anyone I've talked to as though it's a numbers game, but in a macro sense, it is, and being aware of that is one of the ways to keep sane when using these sort of apps XD. If it's different on here, then I'll be happy with that, I've not seen enough to judge.

We can only speak directly of our own individual experiences but on both apps I've used with any regularity or length of time, what I've related has been my experience.
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Regardless, because the view from both sides is mostly anecdotal, the key here is that it's entirely possible to have a positive experience of sites like this if you get the attitude, approach and expectations set correctly - they don't guarantee a thing of course, but the perception and experience is definitely enhanced.

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, eyemblacksheep said:

so the simple is to not treat or think of it like a numbers game.    

Am I interested in this person Y/N

If N - don't contact

If Y - why are you interested? can you show this in a message?

Of course some would say but there's this grey in between where you're not *sure* if someone interests you because there's a lack of info on their profile or whatever - and there's many reasons why there's a lack of info on profiles - so on one hand, it might be best to leave it, on another hand, if you do wish to message then there still must be a reason - and even if the reason is "they're local and around your age" - make a local question "hey, I saw you're not far from me - have you ever been to the munch/fet event/etc" but then also not expect a reply cos the reason for being blank could well be their own uncertainty or nerves.

Take away maths and apply merits.

Ignoring reality doesn't get it to go away. Which isn't me disagreeing with your approach by the way, that has always been how I've gone about it too. But yes and no isn't a binary in this situation, it's a decision, and the maths says that the more you message, your percentage drops, but your overall count of responses increases. Someone messaging everyone they think they're say 70% compatible with will do better than someone only messaging people they are 95% compatible with. Awareness of the maths doesn't take away the merits, it just gives context for success and failure.

[ey****]

1 hour ago, 109thStar said:

Awareness of the maths doesn't take away the merits, it just gives context for success and failure.

It depends because you then take something fluid and apply it to something fixed

the odds of rolling a (fair) dice and landing on a 6 is a 6, the more times you roll the dice the more likely you are to get a 6, but someone rolling a dice 60 times will get a 6 an average of 10 times, but some will be more, some less.

Picking a winning horse from a field of 20 is a 1 in 20 chance - but - you greatly increase the chance of picking a winner if you start studying form, doing research so to speak.   

But in both of these, you can't entirely control the outcome.    

Messaging people has no fixed odds on success and also have a big influence on everything from your profile to your approach (to even how many people you've been messaging - as people do talk) so that is something where a lot of numbers go out the window.