The meaning of "no"

[Phoenyx]

Excellent theme.  I am truly surprised, that no one has thought to broach this topic, before now.  Just because a lady says, "No!", it should not be taken as a personal affront.  You may be a great guy, but, just not what she desires.  Relationships are about a lot more than just getting ones' rocks off.

Now, to the technique of domination.  Lady subs don't want to be ordered and humiliated.  They wish to feel wrapped in a blanket of loving, caring, and the promise of pleasure.  They want to be seduced into their bondage, not ***d.  They wish to feel their desire to resist, melt-away.  The stroke of the whip, no matter how intense, must always seem like the caress of a lover's hand.  The ropes, like being held in one's arms.  The tightness of the encasing leather or latex, like a lover's embrace.  To them, the locks are there, not to imprison them, but, to give assurance that their pleasure cannot be taken away.  They serve, because they know that the power that they have surrendered, will be returned to them three-fold, in the form of ecstasy.  The aroma of the leather, and the sense of the Dom's power, become like an erotic cologne.  The denial of orgasm begins to feel like an adventure.  The sub cannot wait for the climax.  Yet, she wishes for the pleasurable experience to last as long as possible.

These are the things that a Dom must be able to "read" in his sub.  The road through a scene is not a straight line.  It is more like a twisty mountain road.  One rarely knows what might lie around the next turn.  Just as a curvy, scenic road adds to the pleasure of driving, so, the spontaneous reactions of both sub and Dom, add to the thrill of BDSM.  It is not about being a sadist or misogynist.  Rather, it is about playing those parts on stage, for the enjoyment of all.

[Vandalslut]

@phoenyx, you and I made an agreement not to read each other's minds!   There is a far more sophisticated way of expressing sadism than just doing what a sub hates. There is loving sadism.  The Vandal's terrific at it.

The Vandal's thoughts on this were : "We're far too used to instantness. People aren't instant. But now the younger people only know 'instant' and have no idea how to let a friendship grow, they think they're on Facebook with a million 'friends' who don't give a crap about them anyway. The idiots with their dick in their hand, yelling  'NOW!' have no idea of building a relationship by seduction. So they're going to be rubbish at building a scene and they'd be better off getting themselves an inflatable wombat in a pink bikini and going for it. As for the sadists doing what a sub hates, they're the sorts who got bullied at school or couldn't get the pretty girls, just trying to get back at someone long gone."

[Deleted Member]

5 hours ago, mumbai482 said:

Eeremmmm being polite to not get blacklisted shouldn’t be a reason to be respectful, that’s just pretending then and manipulative, and for people who do that for that reason still have the same expectation. 

That's a very good point and I totally agree. However with respect you seem to miss my point. This is not about which limits a sub has but more about the character of the "Doms." It's more about basic protocol and common human decency, I'm fully aware how entitled some are and this is a direct challenge to that entitlement, not which limits a submissive would choose. If a "Dom" respects boundaries no matter how hard-core those boundaries be then there is no issue as it's staying within the agreed limits with full consent, the keyword being consent.

[Deleted Member]

18 hours ago, RowanGreenfire said:

Great post @Donnykinkster . I'd hazard a guess that you are in touch with the divine feminine energy, 

Your guess would be correct 😊

[Deleted Member]

7 hours ago, reasyn said:

Very well put. 

 

There's are reasons for this though I do hate to admit it. 

I feel I understand why but would be interested to hear what you think 😊

[Deleted Member]

Nice

[Ky****]

10 hours ago, reasyn said:

Very well put. 

 

There's are reasons for this though I do hate to admit it. 

I also have the same problem as a sub, sometimes it feels that if I say no to someone who doesn't realise what no means I'm not being sub enough, and do some people play on that

[no****]

🙌🏼

[Deleted Member]

52 minutes ago, Kymi said:

I also have the same problem as a sub, sometimes it feels that if I say no to someone who doesn't realise what no means I'm not being sub enough, and do some people play on that

Yes I think they do exactly that Kymi, manipulation, using your own nature against you.

[Ta****]

Sometimes I think  they may just see it as .."oh..that Sub is just playing hard to get, so I will be persistent with them until they give in."  They might see it as a kind of game.  But when i say no, it actually means I want no further interaction.

[Erotes-72]

A fantastic topic, so well written and just so true on all levels. I thank you DonnyKinkster for taking the time to write such a poignant message.
 

Whilst we are all kinksters on here, we are also real people with real feelings. Dignity and ones basic human rights did not get removed the moment we logged onto this platform. One can not assume another’s desires from a profile alone. You are so right when you say be respectful and get to know someone first.

 

Equality, respect and common decency should be the Cornerstone of all our behaviour when we first make contact with each other. From there we can truly find what stirs our passions if the recipient cares to share. If not then accept that and let them be.

 

I do respect you for posting this, thank you

 

 

[Deleted Member]

Very well said. 

"No" means exactly that. There are a lot of men who don't understand what "no" means on this site and others. Resect and understanding should be up there are well. I met a sub recently who said that she had said when she joined the site, she received 60 messages, with only 2 of them that showed any respect to her role as a sub.     

 

[mu****]

@Donnykinkster I understand and agree with you but I wasn’t talking about limits. I was adding the point it’s not about BDSM, BDSM or Vanilla both at the end of the day are a form of sex/pleasure, there has to be consent in both. The problem is a mans mindset and that depends on what he is taught by his parents, movies, society and most of all what’s inside him. I have had more bad experiences in vanilla than BDSM.
 

Edited June 14, 2020 by FETMOD-TF
Members link added

[Deleted Member]

38 minutes ago, mumbai482 said:

@Donnykinkster I understand and agree with you but I wasn’t talking about limits. I was adding the point it’s not about BDSM, BDSM or Vanilla both at the end of the day are a form of sex/pleasure, there has to be consent in both. The problem is a mans mindset and that depends on what he is taught by his parents, movies, society and most of all what’s inside him. I have had more bad experiences in vanilla than BDSM.
 

Totally agree and that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. Yep we all men, women, tv, t.s, non binary need to try harder to be better human beings. It just seems we men are getting worse, the older school values are dissapearing but thats society in general these days.

Thank you for your input and I hope you are well 😊

[Deleted Member]

7 hours ago, BT2019 said:

Very well said. 

"No" means exactly that. There are a lot of men who don't understand what "no" means on this site and others. Resect and understanding should be up there are well. I met a sub recently who said that she had said when she joined the site, she received 60 messages, with only 2 of them that showed any respect to her role as a sub.     

 

I suspect this is partly because many men come on here thinking sub women are just easy with no understanding of d/s. Mr DomDomly aged 22 etc 🙄.

[Deleted Member]

24 minutes ago, Curvykate said:

Mr DomDomly aged 22 etc 🙄.

😂😂😂😂

[re****]

16 hours ago, Donnykinkster said:

I feel I understand why but would be interested to hear what you think 😊

It's not just a sub thing, or a woman thing, and it's a bit complicated but I'll try.

 

Let's begin when we are young: we've learned about the word no in sex from whatever adult decided we should know it. We've got the values of our adults be it caretaker, parent, teacher, or that nice old folk down the street. The values of our surroundings, the community we live in, religion (if that was your thing growing up), and multiple generations of advice. Some of it - maybe even a lot of it - is conflicting information about how we behave towards relationships. Because we bear witness to disagreements and relationships.

 

So, then, we bumble about with people our own age, or older as we get into experiencing relationships, sex, and rejection, right? Well what we saw and learned is different from what they have seen and learned. That means even more ideas are getting exchanged now that our circles have broadened. ***ly we pick a few things up, like: Maybe they are playing hard to get, if you try harder maybe they'll change their mind, or maybe they will be interested if they're seeing what they don't have. Get a partner by being this way or that way. Simple, purported innocent little advices we gave to friends when we didn't know better. Maybe there's social pressure to date someone, fit in, not be the bad-person who didn't give someone a proper chance.

Let's say someone is giving you the "oh but give me a chance baby" grin, or "let me prove..." and "why not?" but it's not something you can explain when you're young why your attracted to one thing but not another. Heck, it's not easy to explain as an adult either! Even when you know what you want and someone looks good on paper sometimes it just doesn't click. All the explaining makes you feel guilty, bad, and wrong. So, sometimes they win you over, but you don't really want to it was just you were too worn out to keep fighting on multiple fronts.

 

Worse, maybe you saw a hint they might get violent. They might "---- you" if you didn't do it. Then there's the advice when something does feel wrong, just do what needs to be done, try to be gentle, don't upset them. If you did get the stand your ground advice maybe it seemed intimidating to follow, went against the things you learned for how to behave, or was just too damn hard to execute and a massive failure on top of that. Speaking from experience I never considered a blow job to get someone out of my hair in lieu of potentially being ***d to do more "----". It was only later that I saw the behaviors for what it was: manipulation and ***, but I had learned this was option to keep myself safe from other things, worse things and it's not "----" if you deliberately chose it. Or so believed my young self, these days I just think it was the wrong fuckin' way to go about it. Too bad I don't have any advice or answers for the young person I was, in the situations I was in.

 

Even if I had known that concept back then, there's a sense of futility and uncertainty: if they can't understand no, didn't understand all my explanation, and I have to be nice to prevent bad things- what else can I do? I don't want to hurt someone, don't want to be mean, don't want to get in trouble, and so on and so forth. It makes for an incredibly complicated mix.

 

Oh, and even the advice that we need to keep trying, try harder, etc. That can turn into harmful behavior and pressure as well. 

 

As an adult, I know damn well the best thing to do was hold my ground. That a lot of the attention I don't want can be cut-off at the root before it begins. But what if I'm missing out? That's a risk, because for every bad person there are two good ones out there. The ones who if you give them a chance are genuine. Some of the ones that keep pushing are easily intimidated when confronted, and others who will curse at you, compounding negative feelings inside. Am I bad, am I wrong, are they right? It can be hard to see that or know how to handle it. Maybe it's easier to be firm, blunt, or even harsh but that takes energy and strength. To make liberal use of block features is again easier, but again what if they were a good sort if given a chance? What if it makes you feel guilty for not giving them that chance? 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by reasyn

[Deleted Member]

10 hours ago, reasyn said:

 

 

Thank you for that, as you say complicated but I'm a great believer in understanding others helps us understand ourselves, should help us become more if we listen properly.

[Ky****]

sometimes I worry that with my love of CNC as the victim that I'm encouraging just this sort of behaviour, when I'm in play mode No defn does not mean No, I wonder whether this leads to men getting confused, not worried about myself just if its sending out general messages that make things difficult for others- if only there was an equivalent to a safeword on here other than blocking, just as when we actually play no doesn't mean no but carrot or whatever does, at least as far as that bit of play is concerned

[mu****]

@reasyn ❤️.... I’ve been in similar situations. What I’ve often understood is the people who do this don’t realise how messed up it is.

I recently studied dog training and behaviour, it made me realise however different each *** is some things are exactly the same. When a person has been taught that a ‘no’ doesn’t mean a ‘no’ and it is only rein***d when we break and they then think they were right.

One of the ways to change this ‘a no doesn’t mean a no’ is to remind ourselves that we are strong enough to fight back, we can say no in different manners and if we can’t do the above it’s not your fault; and to teach younger women and men what’s right. Only when it happens to someone do they realise the severity of it.

[mu****]

@Donnykinkster so glad you brought this topic up!!

[ma****]

Your dealing with fake doms

[la****]

Preach! Very well written, you are absolutely spot on

[Deleted Member]

All of this is really well said, for me surrender into submission is the ultimate act of trust, why would I want to do that for someone who has already proven they hold no respect for me or my boundaries? The responses on here give me hope that there are real Doms out there, opposed to the type who seem to think being a Dom is all about owning the human equivelant of a blow-up doll.

[Vandalslut]

3 hours ago, Whizzer1000 said:

All of this is really well said, for me surrender into submission is the ultimate act of trust, why would I want to do that for someone who has already proven they hold no respect for me or my boundaries? The responses on here give me hope that there are real Doms out there, opposed to the type who seem to think being a Dom is all about owning the human equivelant of a blow-up doll.

There are real ones out there, and quite a few of them are in this website. Take heart!