Dom/mes, can You love a sub who….

[Je****]

So my solid opinion, I don't understand how anyone can have a successful Dom/sub relationship without there being some love there. A Dom who would openly tell you in the beginning they will not love you, shows me, personally, that their ability to care for you is instantly limited. At that point, how could you actually trust them to put your needs up front when necessary? Not everyone may agree but that trust is a MAJOR part of the dynamic between the two. Otherwise you're only partaking in casual kinky sex. It is very possible you have presented yourself as a doormat in the past, but willingness to give to your Dom is not weakness, it's actually the heart of the dynamic. If they are bored with your willingness to please them, then they should be explaining that to you beforehand.
As far as brats are concerned, much like teasing, brattiness requires payoff. Otherwise you're not a bratty sub, just a kinky bitch. And from your post, I don't believe you're just a kinky bitch.

[Se****]

I’ve come across a few people like this in my time. I, like you, couldn’t comprehend how someone can know for certain, from the outset, that they will never love another person - it seems so finite. It would certainly be questioned if I went into every new encounter telling the other person I will DEFINITELY fall in love with them. I entered conversations with these people being fully aware of what they’d told me but, I’d say subconsciously but I don’t think that’s wholly true, secretly hoping I’d be the one they’d change for; I think that it’s a part of (a lot of people’s) human nature that we hope for a “miracle” and have a hope that the thing we’ve been told never will happen actually does. It never happened, not once and it wasn’t their fault, I’m not saying it was mine either. I slowly learned to understand that it wasn’t about me, I wasn’t a problem and neither were they, it’s just the way some people are built. I’d say that there’s nothing wrong with you per se (obviously I don’t know you) and you’re not too much or too little or not enough and all those other self degrading emotions you’re having. But I appreciate how hard it is to come to terms with the fact that sometimes we need or want more or different to what another person can give us and it doesn’t sound like the people you mention can/could give you what you need. I can’t compartmentalise, I can’t separate emotion (and subsequent feelings) from play but I know people who can. I have friends (now) who can do that, I’ve met people who know themselves so well they know they aren’t capable of love in a traditional sense - it doesn’t mean they don’t care and it doesn’t mean you aren’t worthy it just means that your needs don’t align as fully as you’d wish them to. My experience is that these people don’t/can’t change, in the same way I can’t change my inability to compartmentalise, it doesn’t make one or the other right or wrong, just different. And when we meet a person who can’t love because we are so capable of it we don’t trust or believe them, we have to learn to because relationships are often difficult enough without thinking or hoping someone can change to be what you need.

And yes, it hurts like hell, but it isn’t about what you bring or the person you are or the type of sub you are please know that.

I hope that makes sense, you’re welcome to DM me if you’d like to.

Additionally I know you asked for no snarky comments - you’re probably going to get some (I’ve already seen at least one) please try to ignore them and not let them hurt or upset you.

X

[Ci****]

@shilo66 wow that's really grown man behavior right there. Be proud of that. Not. don't listen to this guy girl.

[my****]

No. There is no reason a “doormat” submissive cannot be loved. It probably says more about the Dominants than it does about you. I fell deeply in love with a natural submissive sometimes called a doormat, she rarely if ever pushed back on me and I still found ways to explore her personality that didn’t require funishments or bratting. I don’t know your story, but to say the girl who bends over backwards cannot be loved is patently false. I won’t speculate on why you can’t find it, I’ll only tell you finding actual love is rare and that’s why it’s so sought after.

[Ro****]

That honestly makes a lot of sense, and I really appreciate you taking the time to explain it so thoughtfully. I think what you said about hoping to be “the exception” hit me the most — it’s such a human thing to do, even when we know better deep down.

It’s comforting in a way to hear that it’s not about being “not enough,” but just about people being wired differently. I guess the hard part is accepting that without trying to fight it or take it personally. I’m still learning that part.

Also, I really respect how self-aware you are about your own boundaries and experiences — it actually helped me look at things a bit more clearly. And thank you for the kindness in your words, it genuinely means a lot.

I might take you up on that DM sometime 🙂

[Shilo66]

3 hours ago, Cindershella said:

@shilo66 wow that's really grown man behavior right there. Be proud of that. Not. don't listen to this guy girl.

@Cindershella - Wow, so you decided to completely ignore her very first sentence wherein she asked for HONEST feedback. Which is exactly what I gave.

Clearly another one who can't and won't take any accountability, or, can face the truth.

Let me remind you, she chose to stay with not one, but TWO guys who told her straight upfront, from the beginning, that they're not going to love her... TWO. 

They didn't try to mislead her, they didn't string her along, they were honest with her from the get go. And she, still chose to stay with them. 

She clearly has a type, and she clearly  knows that that type is not good for her, and yet, she still pursues that type.

She and you need to be honest with yourselves. If you don't want guys that will treat you that way, then change the type of guys you go for. It really is that simple.

The reality is, in this modern day and age, as subs, YOU control who approaches you, YOU control who gets close to you, YOU literally control what we can and cannot do to you, and there are laws in place to ensure that. 

If YOU keep picking the wrong guy, then that's on YOU. Because, men in the Kinky verse outnumber - by a huge margin - the women here. You literally have your pick, so there is little excuse. If you have a type and it's not working for you, then be grown up enough to admit it and change your circumstance. But for heaven's sake, just because you've picked three or four bad guys in a row, stop blaming all the other guys out here. Take accountability and reevaluate YOUR selection and YOUR vetting processes.

In other words, be HONEST with yourself.

But hey, you know what they, "some people would rather be kissed by a lie than sla  pped with the truth."

Edited April 1 by Shilo66

[DLoren]

Hi, I think you are making two confusions here. Someone who tell you they will never love you from the start are only saying that they don't want or can't t fall in love for whatever reason. That's has nothing to see with you. Then if you believe that the reason why nobody felt in love with you until now is the way you submit to them you are wrong. Nobody fall in love with kinks or fetishes. You only can fall in love for a person and even easier with one who shares the same desires, kinks, fetishes with you. Maybe before getting involved in a serious relationship with somebody only because your kinks are a good match, it would be wise to also be sure you love each other. DL

[Ci****]

@Shilo66 and what if these so called men flipped script on her? No I'm accountable all day long but there's a right way and a wrong way to be honest. And if you're looking for the wrong way you are nailing it babe. What if this is the only social outlet she has. What if this was her last ditch hope at some empathy because her social circle doesn't exist out of here. You can laugh at it but it happens every day. I used to be that girl. So let's have a little compassion in our honesty shall we? Thanks because your comments are giving cat in a room full of 2 year olds chaotic.

[Cu****]

Yesterday at 01:15 AM, Rugger1967 said:

Alpha dominant currently I have a 23-year-old submissive and I don’t know how I could do it. If love wasn’t a part of it and caring it sounds like it’s just a transaction not a relationship. I never do transactions if there’s not chemistry and if we’re not moving towards something more in a permanent level, I’m not interested now. I would say this we had the conversation about an open relationship from the beginning it are both agreed to it.

💯 🙌🏻

[fa****]

There is a difference between love lost. And in love, you can love somebody. And not be in love like think of your best friend. That's been loyal to you your entire life. You've known them forever, you trust them. You could say you love them.But you wouldn't be in love with them.

[ju****]

Hmmm… your profile says you don’t need our opinion and that you’re already owned by someone.

At any rate, there are different types of love. I think you’re wanting the romantic love (in-love) with dates as in a traditional relationship- would this be correct? If the answer is yes, then you should only submit to someone who is giving you the love that you are expecting to receive.

Otherwise, a master/owner may love you in a type of friendship, or like how an owner loves their pet. Its not romantic, but they do care about you.

Overall, you have to decide what is best for you. If you’re not getting what you want, then you shouldn’t give so much away in service. But that’s just my opinion.

If you choose the latter, staying on the relationship where you’re not loved the way you want to be, then you accept it and stop complaining about it.

[Ka****]

8 hours ago, Cindershella said:

@shilo66 wow that's really grown man behavior right there. Be proud of that. Not. don't listen to this guy girl.

Trust me. His opinion means nothing to me. I consider the source of the comment and don’t let it bother me. I do appreciate your kind words though.

[Ka****]

6 hours ago, Shilo66 said:

@Cindershella - Wow, so you decided to completely ignore her very first sentence wherein she asked for HONEST feedback. Which is exactly what I gave.

Clearly another one who can't and won't take any accountability, or, can face the truth.

Let me remind you, she chose to stay with not one, but TWO guys who told her straight upfront, from the beginning, that they're not going to love her... TWO. 

They didn't try to mislead her, they didn't string her along, they were honest with her from the get go. And she, still chose to stay with them. 

She clearly has a type, and she clearly  knows that that type is not good for her, and yet, she still pursues that type.

She and you need to be honest with yourselves. If you don't want guys that will treat you that way, then change the type of guys you go for. It really is that simple.

The reality is, in this modern day and age, as subs, YOU control who approaches you, YOU control who gets close to you, YOU literally control what we can and cannot do to you, and there are laws in place to ensure that. 

If YOU keep picking the wrong guy, then that's on YOU. Because, men in the Kinky verse outnumber - by a huge margin - the women here. You literally have your pick, so there is little excuse. If you have a type and it's not working for you, then be grown up enough to admit it and change your circumstance. But for heaven's sake, just because you've picked three or four bad guys in a row, stop blaming all the other guys out here. Take accountability and reevaluate YOUR selection and YOUR vetting processes.

In other words, be HONEST with yourself.

But hey, you know what they, "some people would rather be kissed by a lie than sla  pped with the truth."

I do welcome and appreciate honest feedback. I did ask for no snark or rage baiting. But I guess that was too complicated for you. I love how you read my profile and think you have me figured out? My Master is not a bad boy. He is a wonderful man that can’t help how he feels. Or doesn’t. I never blamed him or any man for the type of dynamic I’ve been part of. I was only asking for helpful advice that would help me improve and grow as a submissive. If you feel the need to show your misogynistic attitude in a post like your last ones, that is your right. But you are only making yourself look like an a** with no human empathy. Maybe you should follow the golden rule and if you don’t have anything nice to say then keep your mind your business. Let the caring humans have a supportive conversation and go troll other threads.
I never asked for sympathy, I asked for honesty. Your version of honesty is to tear people down. Not to help. Perhaps that is YOUR PROBLEM.

[Shilo66]

@Cindershella

12 hours ago, Cindershella said:

 I recently was in a relationship for over a year where I was led to believe some things we made plans because we were falling for each other (I was falling he "cared deeply but wasn't ready to say the l word").

-------------------------------------------------------------

The above quote is what YOU wrote, and to anyone reading it, there's a massive RED flag right there staring you in the face... In case you've missed it, it's the part where you stated that YOU were falling but HE wasn't ready to say the L word.

YOU, refused to be honest with yourself, otherwise you would have recognised - by the fact he couldn't say the L word - that he clearly did not feel about you the way you felt about him.

12 hours ago, Cindershella said:

Then? One day he just disappeared from my life. After a year and 4 months. I was blocked from his phone never answered a social media message sent it was as if I never existed .

----------------------------------------------------------

The above quote is again what you wrote. The reason you were blocked, is because, following on from your previous quote, YOU didn't want to listen when he was trying to tell you to slow down and that he didn't want to be with you anymore. If you were able to listen, you would have still split up, BUT, you'd still be communicating now. People only block an ex partner if they think said ex partner will keep pestering them.

12 hours ago, Cindershella said:

 If he's a true Dom, a good Dom he is going to map out explicitly his expectations your rules etc and you'll discuss them at length until both are satisfied with the contract. 

‐---------------‐--------------------------------------------

Above, is another quote from your posting. So according to this, by your own admission, the first two Doms were good ones because, they managed her expectations by telling her clearly from the outset that they were not going to 'love' her. And yet, knowing this, SHE agreed and STILL CHOSE to be with them.

So I'm baffled how in your eyes, they're still the bad guys when they were being honest... and she chose to stay???

-----------------------

You said that there's different ways of being honest, at least I have been, YOU clearly haven't. All you have done is fluffed up her pillow and given her a false illusion that the problems are with those guys and not her. When the problem really is with her.... SHE PICKED THEM, and by her own admission, TWICE.

If you refuse to re-evaluate your actions, your choices, your decisions when they're not working out, then how is that taking accountability?

Like I've said before, YOU, the subs have the real power in the Kinky verse. YOU literally get to choose the guys, because we vastly outnumber you. YOU choose who gets close to you, and YOU choose who gets in. So if YOU keep making poor decisions, it's up to YOU to own that fact and do something about it. 

Clearly for some, accountability,  is a dirty word.

 

 

 

Edited April 2 by Shilo66

[Shilo66]

1 hour ago, aligurl80 said:

I do welcome and appreciate honest feedback. I did ask for no snark or rage baiting. But I guess that was too complicated for you. I love how you read my profile and think you have me figured out? My Master is not a bad boy. He is a wonderful man that can’t help how he feels. Or doesn’t. I never blamed him or any man for the type of dynamic I’ve been part of. I was only asking for helpful advice that would help me improve and grow as a submissive. If you feel the need to show your misogynistic attitude in a post like your last ones, that is your right. But you are only making yourself look like an a** with no human empathy. Maybe you should follow the golden rule and if you don’t have anything nice to say then keep your mind your business. Let the caring humans have a supportive conversation and go troll other threads.
I never asked for sympathy, I asked for honesty. Your version of honesty is to tear people down. Not to help. Perhaps that is YOUR PROBLEM.

You asked for HONEST advice and I gave it. If you didn't like how it was delivered then you shouldn't have asked for an honest reply. There was no raging or baiting.

Yep, I'm sooooo misogynistic 🙄 that I'm the one who told those here in the UK about 'Clare's Law ' - Google it. 

I'm soooooo misogynistic, that I was one of the few guys on this platform to tell women about the message filter they could use to reduce the amount of dick picks they were getting. Yet the women who were supposed to be looking out for the ***hood here, even though they knew about it, wouldn't tell the other women... Maybe it was because, they liked to complain about getting them, and didn't like anything or anyone that could reduce that, and with it their complaints. But, I digress.

YOU stated on your profile that 'you're a grown ass adult and you make your own choices, and that you didn't care what others think of them'.

Soooo, why are you asking this question then if you're going to make your own choices anyway? Why are you suddenly concerned about what we think?

My advice was 'helpful' and 'honest'. You just didn't like it because it confirmed what you already knew and what you should do.

 

Edited April 2 by Shilo66

[mo****]

I think it's just all part of power and control and if they never allow themselves to fall in love they can maintain control and power much easier than if they fall in love

[mo****]

Good luck in your search

[Deleted Member]

I think it all depends on why you got together in the first place and what parameters you put on the relationship at the beginning. For him, it might be his escape from reality (or wife and kids), or it could be his relief from stress or work, it could just be 'his' thing and the other individual is irrelevant, or anything at all, really. But if he's not in it for love, then take that at face value and don't expect him to change. My advice would be to save your submission until you find love, if love is what you are seeking. Remember, whether you are Master or slave, Dom or sub, you are an individual person that is worthy of everything you seek in life. Don't settle for less than what you want. Ever!

[lu****]

I’ve often wondered this…

[ma****]

Non-monogamous pleasure domme here with a sadistic streak: absolutely I can and often do.

Honestly, yes, you might be making yourself a bit of a doormat. If you ultimately want to be loved by a dominant, then that should be part of the conversation from the very beginning and you owe it to yourself to walk away if they give you an emotional stone wall. This isn't an issue of control. Being emotionally and *** doesn't make you weak, and if that interferes with someone's style of dominance, then I hope they take a moment to ask themselves why because I have a feeling they're the same kind of person who thinks women are too emotional, when it sounds like they have to shut their feelings down completely until they explode. But if they're being honest that emotional intimacy isn't in the cards from the beginning, then there's nothing wrong with that in this community.

I have noticed that with a lot of "dominant" men, they just get off on the power, and they feel they have license to do whatever the hell they want, but that has never been domination to me. Anyone can *** someone to do something. There is no satisfaction or enjoyment in that for me. Maybe it's because I have a history that involves SA, but I think kink should be as the***utic as it is revealing.

It's not about demanding ownership and respect. The D/s relationship is inherently about trust and understanding, and it goes both ways. I frame it as "your mine because you choose to be," and it's my obligation and intention to do what I need to to keep you, if I'm interested in an on-going relationship. It's my duty to learn what you need, to figure out where those limits are and they slowly expand your comfort zone, pushing you to places you've never been. If the relationship continues, it almost demands love because I end up wanting to do some pretty horrendous things to you and I need to trust that you'll be honest with me and know that you want me to do those things, too.

[tu****]

@madrose333 has a lot of good points. I think the comment about male Doms leans toward many men wanting to be a Dom, but not really having ther personality for it.

To answer your question, for anyone to fall in love with someone, BDSM relationship or otherwise, it has to be a personality alignment. In other words it's not "something about you" it is that you and the Doms you have connected with are not on the same page. For instance I like the way you explain your obedience, but for me when I have had subs that are totally obedient but mindless, it becomes boring and tedious. I prefer a sub that shows eagerness to be engaged with and dominated. Otherwise it feels im dominating a price of furniture wish is boring.

[FE****]

Moderator Note:

Things are getting heated, turn it down a notch and stop getting personal with the attacks.  Don't call others names.

Debate the points but try and remember, if you asked for honest advise then people may say things that they honestly feel, that you may not like.

In return, giving honest advice doesn't mean you can't show some compassion in how that is delivered.

[tu****]

Meant no offense just sharing my personal experience and feelings. Nothing directed at OP but it's not their fault and there is nothing wrong with them.

[wa****]

Depending on how at the beginning of the relationship they told you they would never love you, it can’t be anything about you. If they told you that before they even knew you then it’s a choice they make for every submissive they have.

I am sure there are many doms who would love a sub as submissive as you. I know I would.

[OT****]

If I say ‘I love you’ to someone and am hurt that they do not say it back to me, then it feels like I'm really saying ‘I need you’ and I'm looking for reassurance.

If I think that I'm doing something wrong if someone won't say that they love me, is that because I think that if only I do the right things then they will? Is that love, though?