se**** Posted October 11, 2022 Posted October 11, 2022 @NWKinkyGent the point, does this make Sub a victim or... ok, Dom does not, or forgets to ensure. Does this make the Dom an ***r?. Careless maybe, but???...🤷♀️
CopperKnob Posted October 11, 2022 Author Posted October 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, kiseu said: @NWKinkyGent the point, does this make Sub a victim or... ok, Dom does not, or forgets to ensure. Does this make the Dom an ***r?. Careless maybe, but???...🤷♀️ Kiseu, I don't think it's possible to attribute labels like ***r/victim etc in Eyem's scenario although either party involved may have felt upset/distressed about the situation. Both have the responsibility of effective communication and in this instance, both failed.
Deleted Member Posted October 11, 2022 Posted October 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, kiseu said: @NWKinkyGent the point, does this make Sub a victim or... ok, Dom does not, or forgets to ensure. Does this make the Dom an ***r?. Careless maybe, but???...🤷♀️ I'm not sure it makes the Dom an ***r, that's quite a strong word, but careless yes. And it makes the sub a victim, as again I think a sub can be a victim without the Dom being an ***r. But... we're going off OP topic a bit now.
Deleted Member Posted October 11, 2022 Posted October 11, 2022 35 minutes ago, CopperKnob said: I don't know what it is you wrote that you think that this post was directed to you? . The point of the post is, that everyone whether subconsciously/consciously risk assesses and takes personal reponsibility in a number of ways but, there is a limit to risk assessing/personal responsibility because we cannot always account for the behaviours of others. We can all think ahead/plan and take all the appropriate measures/have strategies in place and yet something unpleasant may still occur. A danger of a post like this, though, is it leads some people to think you're right! There are risks to everything! Might as well just do what I want and hope for the best. Yes, bad things can happen even if you take every precaution and no, you can't let potential risks stop you from doing something. But you have to mitigate risk *as best you can*. And we all have our own line about where desire to do something meets risk.
se**** Posted October 11, 2022 Posted October 11, 2022 @NWKINKYGENT A victim is a strong word as well. I am only throwing ideas. Yes... back to topic.
ma**** Posted October 12, 2022 Posted October 12, 2022 23 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said: there's assorted reasons why I hate the term 'personal responsibility' and, there's sometimes points around this I don't always word too well so please bear with me. Straw Scenario. Someone (gender unimportant) attends a fetish event. They are new but have been to a couple of events but never played. They go into the dungeon and see some cool as fuck play going on - perhaps some flogging which looks really nice, and the submissive seems to take it effortly. Later, they are talking to the Dominant from the scene (whose gender is also unimportant) and say how good it looks. Then perhaps either the Dominant asks if the newbie would like a go, or the newbie asks. Whatever. The Dominant asks some question - perhaps "Have you played before?" but it's noisy and the newbie hears it as maybe "Have you been here before?" and the newbie replies, "Yes a few times" and so the Dominant plays with an assumption of knowledge. Turns out, floggers actually hurt, the newbie struggles to really get into the head space and doesn't really enjoy it. They think they have to go through with it, as they don't understand properly about stopping a scene. Now, really, in my straw scenario - nobody is really to blame here. At least not on the surface. But, actually. A few days later the newbie complains about the bruising, the ***, that it was too hard - and - yep, someone goes "personal responsibility! you should have...." followed by "...know how the Dominant plays...", "....knew floggers hurt...", "...used a safeword..." or whatever. But nobody in this scenario talks about the Dominants "personal responsibility" - which was to have a conversation about experience somewhere quieter. Clarified the newbie knew about safewords (a simple "do you have a safeword you like to use, or are you happy with calling red?") and, given they are playing with someone they've never played with, seen play, or know about their experience - possibly did some checking in during play. and obviously in my scenario - this was potentially a simple misunderstanding and the type which probably happens more often than we'd all admit - but - to claim 'personal responsibility' often places it more on the newbie than the person who probably should have known a little better. I love the way you see things. I've noticed many "experienced" subs/slaves/Doms/Masters blaming a new submissive when a sub chooses to speak up. In that way, those "experienced" people invalidate the new sub's experience and make the new sub (and other new subs) feel like there is something wrong with speaking up. In the same time, those "experienced" people protect the Dom who did the wrong and, by doing so, they encourage the Dom into behaving that way....
ey**** Posted October 12, 2022 Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, maryioni said: I love the way you see things. I've noticed many "experienced" subs/slaves/Doms/Masters blaming a new submissive when a sub chooses to speak up. In that way, those "experienced" people invalidate the new sub's experience and make the new sub (and other new subs) feel like there is something wrong with speaking up. In the same time, those "experienced" people protect the Dom who did the wrong and, by doing so, they encourage the Dom into behaving that way.... I think one of the big things with experience should become the ability to support inexperience. There's been a few threads recently where we've had Dominants claim experience and blame inexperienced subs for one thing or another - be it not taking the role expected of the Dominant, be it getting into a punishment above their comfort levels, be it panicking when something went wrong - and there are wider things I've seen elsewhere from the "they always play like this" to the "but you didn't safeword" And the experience/inexperience thing can flip around here a bit - but - with experience should be the case of recognising inexperience which doesn't allow the other person to end up over their head. This in turn also protects the experienced person. So that if someone is playing with someone who is inexperienced, that there is a choice between compromises they have to make - or - simply not playing. Because there will be someone new and excited who wants to play, and that's great - it's often flattering to be invited for play - but saying yes isn't always the right answer.
Chloebear Posted October 12, 2022 Posted October 12, 2022 6 hours ago, maryioni said: I love the way you see things. I've noticed many "experienced" subs/slaves/Doms/Masters blaming a new submissive when a sub chooses to speak up. In that way, those "experienced" people invalidate the new sub's experience and make the new sub (and other new subs) feel like there is something wrong with speaking up. In the same time, those "experienced" people protect the Dom who did the wrong and, by doing so, they encourage the Dom into behaving that way.... These people are only experienced at manipulation and bullying… the ‘I said you have to do it so you do’ crowd. If someone is afraid for you to say no or wait, they show their lack of fit for being a Dominant. Likewise, learning patience is valuable for both subs and Dom/mes.
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