Kink and Mental Illness

[Deleted Member]

Do you think understanding and expressing your kinks makes you more likely to spot and self-diagnose mental illness?

[TheBookCollector]

Not necessarily, maybe you are aware enough to understand simpler menral health issues like depression, but not more complex things like DID etc only professionals can help you with.

[un****]

beyond correlation i don’t think so like for example i’ve seen a fairly strong correlation between ADHD and kink however as any good stats class will tell you correlation does not equal causation however that does not mean the correlation between mental conditions and kink isn’t at the very least intriguing

[QXX666]

I don’t think peoples on here would appreciate you told them they have mental illness because they are kinky!!
But as mentioned below/above you don’t self diagnosed mental illness, it takes few sessions for a professional to pinpoint the problem. You could think you have depression for example but in fact you have an underlying or past repressing trauma or thyroid disease…

[sardonicus87]

Short answer: no.
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Nobody should self-diagnose any illness... and arguably, nobody can. It takes a lot of knowledge to diagnose any type of illness (physical or mental). Many illnesses share the same symptoms, and it takes a professional outsider to figure out which one is there.
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A further complication to the issue, and something I've seen a lot in people that self-diagnose, is that they have a list of symptoms, but everyone exhibits some degree of X symptom, but it's only a symptom of illness based on *degree* and *frequency*, and most people don't have the experience (and definitely not the training) to be able to tell when a given thing is in the "normal range" vs the "extreme range".
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As far as I know of, there's not really any repitable studies that link mental illness and kink.
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Anecdotal accounts are those found online, but it could equally be the case that people with mental illness are more prone to use online stuff. In other words if you polled users of a kink website about what illnesses they have, that doesn't mean anything. It could be the case that there's many more into kink who don't use online kink websites and they're not mentally ill.
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Even then, you not only have to take anecdotal evidence with a grain of salt, but you have to take online self-reporting (even anonymous reporting) with a grain of salt. People lie, all the time. A famous example was a questionnaire about public bathroom use and how often you wash your hands. Something like 90% of respondents to this anonymous survey said they ALWAYS wash hands after using public restrooms. Naturalistic observation (studying people without their knowledge) showed results of only like 60-70% as always washing hands after.

[TheBookCollector]

2 minutes ago, QXX666 said:

I don’t think peoples on here would appreciate you told them they have mental illness because they are kinky!!
But as mentioned below/above you don’t self diagnosed mental illness, it takes few sessions for a professional to pinpoint the problem. You could think you have depression for example but in fact you have an underlying or past repressing trauma or thyroid disease…

I agree however you may be more self aware that theres something not right and so seek help far quicker.

[QXX666]

14 minutes ago, TheBookCollector said:

I agree however you may be more self aware that theres something not right and so seek help far quicker.

Of course, but self aware and self diagnosed it’s completely different. But using kinks as a tool is completely wrong. We don’t even know what he’s talking about… 

[TheBookCollector]

@qxx666, exactly, thats the point i was making.

[CopperKnob]

Nope. Qualified Psychiatrists should be diagnosing and treating and have gone through diagnostic testing with the individual.
It's one thing to say, "I think I have..." and to seek support and another to say "I have..."
It would also be completely unethical for any Psychiatrist to self diagnose/treat and would likely be based purely on one bias or another. Pretty sure the GMC would take an interest in that.

[Deleted Member]

No

[Je****]

While I haven't read any other comments, I'd likely from your Q alone, say maybe not, but I am interested in your thought process and what intrigued you to ask this?

[MxyBunny]

I think the key word in your question is understanding. If you understand, like, TRULY comprehend the nature and chemistry of your kinks, yes it seems clear to me you can, through that, make valid inferences about certain complexes within your mental health. For example I am well aware that my *** kinks are the ultimate result of sexual imprinting from trauma processing. It's not that big a mystery when you are viciously bullied as a kid and grow up to erotically desire being bullied. It's clearly just my mind's way of talking control of something that made me feel hopeless in my formative years. This kind of self understanding is a double edged sword, as it takes a fair bit of armchair expertise development to be able to get grasp of how all the mental clockwork fits together, and doing so can rob you of some of the magic. The more you understand a kink the closer it moves from being emotionally fulfilling to a completed videogame with no dopamine left to dispense. It's nifty to see how all the gears work, but you wanna keep it enough of a mystery that you an still enjoy it without constantly being lucid to the fact that you're basically just an *** following behavioural ticks like a parrot. And also, much like the surgeon who operates in himself, it's... Probably not a great idea to go too deep. I like having some understanding of how it all works, but I try to keep the clockwork roughly inside the clock.

[Ae****]

Absolutely. What you're into screams what you're drives and ***s are internally. It's like a massive billboard on your forehead.
Mental illness is just extreme neuroses. That is to say, it's all on a spectrum - so even if you're not "mentally ill", you can still observe your little ***s, little wishes, little terrors, little desires, when you think about why exactly you like what you like, sexually.

What you're into is like a ***ting. You can see what's in your own mind when you step back and think about why exactly you ***ted THAT subject, with THOSE colours.

[Ae****]

46 minutes ago, MxyBunny said:

I think the key word in your question is understanding. If you understand, like, TRULY comprehend the nature and chemistry of your kinks, yes it seems clear to me you can, through that, make valid inferences about certain complexes within your mental health. For example I am well aware that my *** kinks are the ultimate result of sexual imprinting from trauma processing. It's not that big a mystery when you are viciously bullied as a kid and grow up to erotically desire being bullied. It's clearly just my mind's way of talking control of something that made me feel hopeless in my formative years. This kind of self understanding is a double edged sword, as it takes a fair bit of armchair expertise development to be able to get grasp of how all the mental clockwork fits together, and doing so can rob you of some of the magic. The more you understand a kink the closer it moves from being emotionally fulfilling to a completed videogame with no dopamine left to dispense. It's nifty to see how all the gears work, but you wanna keep it enough of a mystery that you an still enjoy it without constantly being lucid to the fact that you're basically just an *** following behavioural ticks like a parrot. And also, much like the surgeon who operates in himself, it's... Probably not a great idea to go too deep. I like having some understanding of how it all works, but I try to keep the clockwork roughly inside the clock.

This 👌

[sardonicus87]

3 hours ago, MxyBunny said:

I think the key word in your question is understanding. If you understand, like, TRULY comprehend the nature and chemistry of your kinks, yes it seems clear to me you can, through that, make valid inferences about certain complexes within your mental health. For example I am well aware that my *** kinks are the ultimate result of sexual imprinting from trauma processing. It's not that big a mystery when you are viciously bullied as a kid and grow up to erotically desire being bullied. It's clearly just my mind's way of talking control of something that made me feel hopeless in my formative years. This kind of self understanding is a double edged sword, as it takes a fair bit of armchair expertise development to be able to get grasp of how all the mental clockwork fits together, and doing so can rob you of some of the magic. The more you understand a kink the closer it moves from being emotionally fulfilling to a completed videogame with no dopamine left to dispense. It's nifty to see how all the gears work, but you wanna keep it enough of a mystery that you an still enjoy it without constantly being lucid to the fact that you're basically just an *** following behavioural ticks like a parrot. And also, much like the surgeon who operates in himself, it's... Probably not a great idea to go too deep. I like having some understanding of how it all works, but I try to keep the clockwork roughly inside the clock.

Except plenty of people are into spanking for example, and they weren't spanked as children. Some were, some where not. Some people who are into *** kinks (as per your example) were never traumatized and areas processing anything. Sometimes people are into things with no clear reason why.
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And while it may be tempting to give reasons that seem to make sense, just because one thing happened in the past doesn't mean that something you're into now is because of that thing. They could be entirely unrelated and only a coincidence.
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Yes, some people do process things through kink due to past experiences. However, others with those same past experiences do not, and others with those same kinks don't and aren't processing and can't point to any reason.
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Much like how I hate cheese. I can even tell you it's the flavor. I never had a bad experience with cheese, just don like the taste or smell. Why? Who knows, biochemistry is a mystery. The mind/brain is an even bigger mystery. Nobody truly and fully comprehends their own selves to such a degree, it's not possible to do so with how extremely faulty memory is combined with extreme numbers of cognitive bias, which by definition, you are mostly blind to most of them.
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Furthermore, MENTAL HEALTH is NOT the same thing as MENTAL ILLNESS.

[sardonicus87]

3 hours ago, Aeonova said:

Absolutely. What you're into screams what you're drives and ***s are internally. It's like a massive billboard on your forehead.
Mental illness is just extreme neuroses. That is to say, it's all on a spectrum - so even if you're not "mentally ill", you can still observe your little ***s, little wishes, little terrors, little desires, when you think about why exactly you like what you like, sexually.

What you're into is like a ***ting. You can see what's in your own mind when you step back and think about why exactly you ***ted THAT subject, with THOSE colours.

Mental illness is not "just extreme neuroses".
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This thread, in my opinion, is becoming legitimately dangerous with some of the bad/wrong information being given. Like non-doctors giving medical advice. I feel like that should probably be against the rules, like you wouldn't let a random person who Wikipedia'd some stuff tell you to take some medicine for something they diagnosed you as having without any medical training.

[TimtheMerciless]

11 hours ago, TheBookCollector said:

Not necessarily, maybe you are aware enough to understand simpler menral health issues like depression, but not more complex things like DID etc only professionals can help you with.

I'd agree with that. I do think all people should reflect on what really moves them. So off they have some strong kink themes there may (or may not) be something to learn from that. 

 

 

[Ae****]

4 hours ago, sardonicus87 said:

Mental illness is not "just extreme neuroses".
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This thread, in my opinion, is becoming legitimately dangerous with some of the bad/wrong information being given. Like non-doctors giving medical advice. I feel like that should probably be against the rules, like you wouldn't let a random person who Wikipedia'd some stuff tell you to take some medicine for something they diagnosed you as having without any medical training.

I'm sorry if that's so. It may be. Alternatively, maybe the ideas discussed are rather foreign, difficult to grasp quickly, and therefore seem quite scary. Maybe it's just adults sharing thoughts, and it's an interesting exchange of views. Hopefully it's the latter.

[Ae****]

Thursday at 02:43 PM, sardonicus87 said:

Except plenty of people are into spanking for example, and they weren't spanked as children. Some were, some where not. Some people who are into *** kinks (as per your example) were never traumatized and areas processing anything. Sometimes people are into things with no clear reason why.
.
And while it may be tempting to give reasons that seem to make sense, just because one thing happened in the past doesn't mean that something you're into now is because of that thing. They could be entirely unrelated and only a coincidence.
.
Yes, some people do process things through kink due to past experiences. However, others with those same past experiences do not, and others with those same kinks don't and aren't processing and can't point to any reason.
.
Much like how I hate cheese. I can even tell you it's the flavor. I never had a bad experience with cheese, just don like the taste or smell. Why? Who knows, biochemistry is a mystery. The mind/brain is an even bigger mystery. Nobody truly and fully comprehends their own selves to such a degree, it's not possible to do so with how extremely faulty memory is combined with extreme numbers of cognitive bias, which by definition, you are mostly blind to most of them.
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Furthermore, MENTAL HEALTH is NOT the same thing as MENTAL ILLNESS.

Maybe re-ead the question and then reassess your reactions to some of these thread comments. I feel like you're fighting against things that haven't been said.
And regarding your points here - the mind is complex. Very. But not a mystery. If you think it is, go learn psychology. It's not the 1800s. We know the workings of the human mind very deeply now. If you don't think so, you may just not be informed enough.

[MxyBunny]

On 6/29/2023 at 2:43 PM, sardonicus87 said:

Except plenty of people are into spanking for example, and they weren't spanked as children. Some were, some where not. Some people who are into *** kinks (as per your example) were never traumatized and areas processing anything. Sometimes people are into things with no clear reason why.
 

I think between this post and your other replies it seems like you are in the habit of taking things being said very literally and missing some of the nuance and poetry being expressed. 

Sexual imprinting doesn't have to be so obvious as "I got spanked and now I like spanking", I was spanked and hate ***. Additionally I was bullied, but not through crossdressing, so why is my *** fetish sissification? Why don't I want to be kicked in the ribs repeatedly in the middle of a football field? Because this isn't a cartoon. The mind is a tad more complex than that. No one wants to literally relive a traumatic event over and over, that's the opposite of healing. The process we are describing is about *recontextualizing* that ***. Taking that emotional response or scar, and creating a new context in which something similar happens, but with happy sex dopamine instead of sadness and ***.

In my case, it's likely a combination of mild GID/gender fluidity (and no, the / there doesn't mean I think those two things are identical - see, I just caught you didn't I? Stop taking things so literally) COMBINED with childhood bullying. In other words I would always have grown up to be nonbinary or a crossdresser, and living in a world where that is/was taboo enabled me to couple it to my *** sexual imprinting. My brain needed to escape the victim cycle by finding a way to enjoy bullying, and the social paradigm in which I existed gave me a convenient way out. In addition, my crossdressing impulses kicked in during the sexual awakening part of my young development. (This is what I meant when I said I have really worked to understand the clockwork involved here).

Sexual awakening + fetishizable behaviour + the beginnings of a neurosis = perfect recipe for reshuffling my neural pathways to turn a source of *** into a source of pleasure. Psychologically, it's not unlike the physiological process of developing your immune system by being exposed to bacteria and pathogens. But because the offending matter is mental in nature, it requires a mental immune response. The fantasy is analogous to the antibody that fights off the invading body. Is it so hard, in a world where things like love clearly help resist things like hate, to imagine that human psychology might work this way?

For example, it has long been documented that a significant number of women can experience arousal at the thought of being pregnant. Very intense arousal in fact. And the best explanation of this is they are afraid of the long term consequences of starting a family, they don't WANT to be pregnant. It's essentially a *** they are dealing with. You see, the mind likes to process unpleasant things in ways it can more easily control them. Essentially, this is what dreams are. Not just unpleasant things, but all sorts of random thoughts are being sorted as you sleep, and you're witnessing a collage of tiny simulations as your brain tries to process decisions and consequences.

Fantasies are the same way. Whether it's some people ( SA trigger warning) who have been sexually assaulted, later developing rough sex/simulated assault fantasies, or something altogether more subtle. It's basically like drawing your enemy's face on a mannequin and punching it. It's a catharsis in which you are taking control of the situation. None of this means we are claiming to be able to cure serious psychological issues with something sexual, or that everything is just as straight forward as "bad thing happen, sex fantasy about it make good". Nothing in life is that simple, least of all the human psyche.

 

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And while it may be tempting to give reasons that seem to make sense, just because one thing happened in the past doesn't mean that something you're into now is because of that thing. They could be entirely unrelated and only a coincidence.
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Yes, some people do process things through kink due to past experiences. However, others with those same past experiences do not, and others with those same kinks don't and aren't processing and can't point to any reason.

No one was claiming that this always must happen, or that kinks cannot manifest without trauma. These are bizarre statements that have no relevance to this discussion.

But I'd like you to notice that you are being presented with coherent, sensible explanations for fetish imprinting, and in challenge to it, you simply shrug your shoulder and give us an "iunno" about how it works. If your best explanation is that it's just random, and mine is an in depth analysis of the complimentary layers of psychology involved in healing trauma responses with sexuality, is it not safe to say that one of us is on firmer footing than the other? Now, you don't have to present an alternate mechanism in order to refute mine, that wouldn't be a reasonable expectation, but you would have to at least present flaws you see in my model, and all you've really done is extrapolate it to a caricaturish simplistic form and say "why not like spank if spanked".

No one was ever claiming it is actually that simple, which renders your response a strawman. But I'll charitably assume instead that it's simply because enough context wasn't yet provided for you to grasp what was being said at the time, and I hope I have now rectified that. I will say, to grant merit to your position, that the theory of sexual imprinting is still under debate among scholars. I haven't looked at the academia in a while, but it is difficult to quantify the hazy realm of deep psychological impulses. But I think it's safe to say the theory is reasonable, and functions well as an explanation. To the extent is is imperfect it is only because there is more to learn about it, but it's never going to become just a coincidence that so many people like myself develop fetishes that exactly parallel the emotional patterns of trauma.

It's literally just the same thing dreaming does, but on a slightly more conscious level. In fact, I recently read about a form of trauma processing therapy that involves literally playing Tetris after a traumatic event to prevent PTSD from setting in, and I think it's because it's activating that same "sorting" system in the brain that happens when asleep, allowing it to process the trauma much the same way I did on a slower scale by redefining embarrassment in a sexual context. I can't prove that but it's an interesting parallel that I thought I'd mention, and also it's worth drawing awareness to it. Anyone who experiences a traumatic event should play Tetris for a while after, it seems to really help! 
 

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Much like how I hate cheese. I can even tell you it's the flavor. I never had a bad experience with cheese, just don like the taste or smell. Why? Who knows, biochemistry is a mystery. The mind/brain is an even bigger mystery. Nobody truly and fully comprehends their own selves to such a degree, it's not possible to do so with how extremely faulty memory is combined with extreme numbers of cognitive bias, which by definition, you are mostly blind to most of them.

That seems an unfortunate example, because while some food likes and dislikes are surely just the product of our natural biochemistry, have you really never met someone who loves apple pie because it reminds them of a weekly tradition with their parents, or hates the smell of barbecue because it reminds them of the time their house burned down? Have you seriously never experienced anything like that? Because I would find that staggering. You OBVIOUSLY know that these subconscious associations can happen, that someone can hate pizza even if they used to love it because they got drunk once and it made them vomit, or cut the crust off their sandwiches to relive fond childhood memories. You understand that this kind of sensory-memory response happens, and can even be deliberately invoked to alter moods. The fact that you're just denying its existence in the realm of human sexuality for no apparent reason is nonsensical. 

EVERYTHING doesn't have to be association for SOME THINGS to be association. I think it's not so much that you take things literally, but that you seem to be blind to any nuance. If I say car accidents happen more often on freeways you shouldn't need me to clarify that not literally every car will definitely crash.

 

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Furthermore, MENTAL HEALTH is NOT the same thing as MENTAL ILLNESS.

Thank you for stating the obvious? No one said otherwise. However obviously the two are inexorably linked. We call medicine healthcare not diseasecare.

Understanding your psychology leads to a better understanding of both good and bad things going on in there. There's no harm in self-reflection, so long as you are aware that you should reach out to professionals if you want to really make sense out of it or handle anything serious.

Anyway, that's about all I have to say. It isn't as simplistic as if you get spanked you like spanking. And it isn't random either. It CAN manifest very directly like that, or it may be more layered. But to argue against us saying that understanding your sexuality can lead to greater psychological self understanding in general, which is the topical question, is absurd. Sexuality is not, nor should it be, cordoned off from the rest of the mind, and that attitude to me seems to be the truly unhealthy one. 

[Ae****]

45 minutes ago, MxyBunny said:

Thank you for stating the obvious? No one said otherwise. However obviously the two are inexorably linked. We call medicine healthcare not diseasecare.

Understanding your psychology leads to a better understanding of both good and bad things going on in there. There's no harm in self-reflection, so long as you are aware that you should reach out to professionals if you want to really make sense out of it or handle anything serious.

Anyway, that's about all I have to say. It isn't as simplistic as if you get spanked you like spanking. And it isn't random either. It CAN manifest very directly like that, or it may be more layered. But to argue against us saying that understanding your sexuality can lead to greater psychological self understanding in general, which is the topical question, is absurd. Sexuality is not, nor should it be, cordoned off from the rest of the mind, and that attitude to me seems to be the truly unhealthy one. 

This detailed explanation ❤️😍🤯