Boundaries Outside of Dynamics

[16****]

I haven't found any topics like this in forum and I hope that we can discuss this open-mindedly and objectively. Deception/cheating can have repercussions on others outside of a dynamic. In no way am I shaming or targeting individuals or a group of people. I do think this would be a fantastic discussion, though.

From my research, a dynamic isn't just the agreement of 2 or more play partners but the individuals as well. When another person joins the dynamic, it changes. What happens within a dynamic is their business. So, what happens when a person in a dynamic oversteps (emotional cheating, flirting, attempts for sexual gratification, etc.) and pursues someone outside of their dynamic without disclosing to their partners? **Please note I have practiced poly anarchy where disclosure wasn't necessary. This question is specifically for those who agreed to disclosure.

I have been approached multiple times by different people with their intentions to cheat and hide from their partners. I practice ENM. I tried to make sure the other partner was fully aware of our interactions and surprisingly, it backfired, badly, every....single ... time. I wasn't the one in the dynamic nor was I trying to destroy what they built. I was being honest.

If you don't want others to have an opinion or get involved in your dynamic, then don't include them in it. Personally, I don't want to harm partners. I will always disclose my interactions with full transparency. I have done this in all of my own dynamics (poly and mono).

So to avoid losing friendships or more issues arise, my personal protocol now is to speak with couple accounts and/or group chat. This isn't limited to FET interactions. I can still interact with folks in a dynamic in a group setting. Have you had similar interactions? What is your protocol?

[Attaboy4u]

I really love what you wrote. It's been very much my view as well. It's about the communication being growthful, because any relationship has it's difficult times, reasons abound, and being able to talk to this makes trust stronger and more is possible, in ALL aspects. Good on you for articulating it so well.

[Br****]

What I can tell you is that it is perfectly reasonable for this to be a boundary/requirement for you. From past experience not everyone is open to this level of transparency. Some of those partners are ok with the idea of being open or poly but don’t want to have it in their face. Some partners are kept ignorant either because it really is cheating or their partner is protecting their emotions. So step lightly and make it your boundary - if they aren’t transparent you won’t participate rather than forcing interaction on their partner if they don’t welcome that knowledge. Might be received better but it’s tough to make that kind of boundary. You have to stick to not participating if they really want you to be a secret. No matter how much you would otherwise like them. But for some this level of disclosure is a threat to their dynamic/relationship. As messed up as that may seem to those of us who like/need transparency.

[ge****]

I think there are a couple of angles to this - firstly if a couple has a dynamic that allows them the freedom to meet others, it doesn't necessarily mean any third parties are involved in *that* dynamic beyond being respectful of it - sure they may have their own dynamic/relationship with one of the members of that dynamic and of course that may overlap but it still doesn't necessarily mean they have any involvement or say in the original dynamic.
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Ultimately though I think what you're referring to here is people within a dynamic effectively cheating on *that* dynamic with others, breaking any boundaries that may have been set, whilst telling a third party all's well, which is effectively cheating on the dynamic with the third person also.
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And in that instance it's down to the third person to decide if they wish to maintain that kind of relationship or not.
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Sadly it's not uncommon for people to lie about what they are "allowed" to do - either directly or by omission, so it's a minefield and one that's difficult to navigate until it all blows up - so all you can do is make a judgement call as to how much you trust what you are being told.

[16****]

Thank you all, yes, I just wanted to add at one point I was poly anarchy and considering 2 men (who were both wonderful). I did not want one dynamic to effect the other and both men agreed to poly anarchy with limited disclosure of what I wanted to share. I include this because we all had trust in each other but sometimes they didn't want all the details. So, I have and can respect those who are not ENM.

I also feel morally responsible to share information if I know it'll effect someone negatively; dynamic or not. This for me is "do no harm." I've heard others call it white knighting but I don't think I'm "taking over" anyone's task as a white knight would. More so sharing a vantage point.

[Je****]

12 hours ago, 165Sw33t said:

From my research, a dynamic isn't just the agreement of 2 or more play partners but the individuals as well. When another person joins the dynamic, it changes. What happens within a dynamic is their business. So, what happens when a person in a dynamic oversteps (emotional cheating, flirting, attempts for sexual gratification, etc.) and pursues someone outside of their dynamic without disclosing to their partners? **Please note I have practiced poly anarchy where disclosure wasn't necessary. This question is specifically for those who agreed to disclosure.

Well yes a dynamic is the individuals who make the couple,  throuple,  whatever upple lol.

 

IF someone joins that dynamic. As in joins it itself, then yes that dynamic changes. 

If someone is introduced to the dynamic and has seperate things with each of the established couple for instance,  then that's more (enm/poly, in my eyes) because if the person was introduced in, both are aware of his or her involvement and existence. 

It can change the dynamic itself if someone is joining them and being in the relationship equally as much as the two existing ones. Because if it didn't change, it isn't including you. New people coming into things will have a wave no matter how big or small. 

Anyway. Cheating. Or as you've labelled it. Overstepping.

Depends on who /how someone over steps. Everyone in the dynamic will have slightly different boundaries,  not everyone's are exactly the same, there's always wiggle room.

So do you mean as a third, for talk sake, you enter my dynamic with me and my partner.

You've stated you don't want sexual advances up until a certain point? Yet I start advancing at you in this way, and my partner isn't aware of it? So I just act like nothing happened and carried on?

 

Or do you mean like my boundary is no sexual anything with me or him, and you try on one of us and don't tell the other?

At the end of the day it boils down to honesty and transparency. 

If someone or a group of people have boundaries, they need to make those 100% clear, in the same room at the same time with all people involved present and understanding. 

The moment anyone breaks agreed boundaries, trust or respect, they're cheating or deceiving their partner. If someone doesn't want to know what one of them does with the other then that's fair and I guess not technically wrong. It all boils down tho what all 2 or 3 people have agreed on.

 

I will say its hard trying to date a couple, and it's hard being part of a couple looking to date.

We seek a lady and I do the walking and talking and if I like her I introduce her to him or show him photos and conversation (platonic) and he'll say yay or nay. I enclose all there is to know about me and him as per our agreement and she has a choice on whether she wants to keep chatting or not. I'm the fussier one so he leaves it down to me, but its also because we share the same type a lot, and he trusts my judgement. He knows failed or successful,  ill tell him of any interaction with women and I do that out of love, care and respect.

The minute I hide something from him, is not Her being involved and it going wrong, it would be ME who's fucking it up. 

Any relationship or dynamic,  new or evolving,  that begins on lies and mistrust and overall tension and doubt, in my eyes is always doomed to fail.  

 

This is all my opinion here, nothing more nothing less. 

Edited July 24 by Jeneral_Whore

[Je****]

12 hours ago, 165Sw33t said:

I have been approached multiple times by different people with their intentions to cheat and hide from their partners. I practice ENM. I tried to make sure the other partner was fully aware of our interactions and surprisingly, it backfired, badly, every....single ... time. I wasn't the one in the dynamic nor was I trying to destroy what they built. I was being honest.

If you don't want others to have an opinion or get involved in your dynamic, then don't include them in it. Personally, I don't want to harm partners. I will always disclose my interactions with full transparency. I have done this in all of my own dynamics (poly and mono).

So to avoid losing friendships or more issues arise, my personal protocol now is to speak with couple accounts and/or group chat. This isn't limited to FET interactions. I can still interact with folks in a dynamic in a group setting. Have you had similar interactions? What is your protocol?

Being approached by different people with the intent to cheat is just an absolute no fucking way zone for me. 

I know some people on here are married and cheat and meet people and do shit with others without telling their partner or spouse etc and I'm sorry but I've little respect for those. I know peoples situations can be tricky, but you need to respect yourself and your partner and just leave/communicate. (I am not intending on kink shaming, I can't help how I feel on this personal subject) my opinion is only that.

I am saying this as I had interaction with a man when I joined here. Trusted his word when he was separated from his wife, but living together for their child's sake. So I saw him a while. Got a gut feeling one day that something was off. We had hook ups and after the fact we lay cuddling and next thing he touches my face and I see a shiny glint of a wedding ring.

Which he forgot to remove, which I wasn't looking out for as I trusted him, and which he was intentionally removing to come see me. 

So yeh for this reason I don't ever agree with affairs or believe sob stories. I've been burnt. Some are genuine but nah,  been cheated on too much in the past anyway to ever be ok with cheats.

But thats again my personal perspective on that matter, no one else's. 

 

Back to it, those who are cheating intentionally and approaching you, yes you've every right to trust your moral compass and tell them to fuck off. And I wouldn't automatically tell someone else's partner as its not my business however if it was persistent and that partner who was unaware was being made to look a fool, by their unfaithful otherhalf putting it about everywhere and no one is telling them.. then yes il speak up.

In the case of telling people whats happened behind their back, it could be for a few reasons.

Either they're ashamed and embarrassed,  they're so desperate and lonely, they genuinely don't ever see their partner as wrong,  their in denial about whatever or their partner is manipulating them. 

So if someone has been having it off behind someone's back and then it flops and the person wants to tell the partner, the cheat will have already been poisoning the partners ear, so that when you show up up to confess whats happened you're seen as the bad one.

 

However sometimes it can be an outsider who is jealous of the existing couple. 

Who wants to stir shit and get involved to break them up and have off with one of them, one they've maybe been fond of but the dynamic with another has got in the way.

I'm literally waffling on because there is so many ways and scenarios that could go wrong. Too many factors and people complicating it.

 

 

For me, as mentioned,  seeking with my partner. I do the "hunt" and inform him and he, at any time, can ask to see that conversation or be added in or whatever else, nor will I deny her access to him should she ask for it. Everything is 100% transparent with me/us. 

This in my opinion is the only way itl work.

 

Someone controlling a conversation and feeding drips and drabs to someone else isn't transparent. Give them the phone, add them to the convo so its plain for all to see. 

 

This is my protocol.

If approaching a couple, sure I look at all profiles on here,  individually if any and the couple one, but if approaching, il use my couple account to message theirs. 

I think once I've messaged a lady asking if she's into couples she said nope and that was that. But even showed my partner that too.

 

Sorry if I'm not making sense, but yeh. Transparency,  stick to agreed boundaries,  not involved unless established,  and don't cheat is the basis of my comments.

Edited July 24 by Jeneral_Whore

[16****]

2 hours ago, Jeneral_Whore said:

Being approached by different people with the intent to cheat is just an absolute no fucking way zone for me. 

I know some people on here are married and cheat and meet people and do shit with others without telling their partner or spouse etc and I'm sorry but I've little respect for those. I know peoples situations can be tricky, but you need to respect yourself and your partner and just leave/communicate. (I am not intending on kink shaming, I can't help how I feel on this personal subject) my opinion is only that.

I am saying this as I had interaction with a man when I joined here. Trusted his word when he was separated from his wife, but living together for their child's sake. So I saw him a while. Got a gut feeling one day that something was off. We had hook ups and after the fact we lay cuddling and next thing he touches my face and I see a shiny glint of a wedding ring.

Which he forgot to remove, which I wasn't looking out for as I trusted him, and which he was intentionally removing to come see me. 

So yeh for this reason I don't ever agree with affairs or believe sob stories. I've been burnt. Some are genuine but nah,  been cheated on too much in the past anyway to ever be ok with cheats.

But thats again my personal perspective on that matter, no one else's. 

 

Back to it, those who are cheating intentionally and approaching you, yes you've every right to trust your moral compass and tell them to fuck off. And I wouldn't automatically tell someone else's partner as its not my business however if it was persistent and that partner who was unaware was being made to look a fool, by their unfaithful otherhalf putting it about everywhere and no one is telling them.. then yes il speak up.

In the case of telling people whats happened behind their back, it could be for a few reasons.

Either they're ashamed and embarrassed,  they're so desperate and lonely, they genuinely don't ever see their partner as wrong,  their in denial about whatever or their partner is manipulating them. 

So if someone has been having it off behind someone's back and then it flops and the person wants to tell the partner, the cheat will have already been poisoning the partners ear, so that when you show up up to confess whats happened you're seen as the bad one.

 

However sometimes it can be an outsider who is jealous of the existing couple. 

Who wants to stir shit and get involved to break them up and have off with one of them, one they've maybe been fond of but the dynamic with another has got in the way.

I'm literally waffling on because there is so many ways and scenarios that could go wrong. Too many factors and people complicating it.

 

 

For me, as mentioned,  seeking with my partner. I do the "hunt" and inform him and he, at any time, can ask to see that conversation or be added in or whatever else, nor will I deny her access to him should she ask for it. Everything is 100% transparent with me/us. 

This in my opinion is the only way itl work.

 

Someone controlling a conversation and feeding drips and drabs to someone else isn't transparent. Give them the phone, add them to the convo so its plain for all to see. 

 

This is my protocol.

If approaching a couple, sure I look at all profiles on here,  individually if any and the couple one, but if approaching, il use my couple account to message theirs. 

I think once I've messaged a lady asking if she's into couples she said nope and that was that. But even showed my partner that too.

 

Sorry if I'm not making sense, but yeh. Transparency,  stick to agreed boundaries,  not involved unless established,  and don't cheat is the basis of my comments.

Good questions Jen. I'm only half way. Heading to work right now but I definitely will answer this evening

[16****]

13 hours ago, Jeneral_Whore said:

Well yes a dynamic is the individuals who make the couple,  throuple,  whatever upple lol.

 

IF someone joins that dynamic. As in joins it itself, then yes that dynamic changes. 

If someone is introduced to the dynamic and has seperate things with each of the established couple for instance,  then that's more (enm/poly, in my eyes) because if the person was introduced in, both are aware of his or her involvement and existence. 

It can change the dynamic itself if someone is joining them and being in the relationship equally as much as the two existing ones. Because if it didn't change, it isn't including you. New people coming into things will have a wave no matter how big or small. 

Anyway. Cheating. Or as you've labelled it. Overstepping.

Depends on who /how someone over steps. Everyone in the dynamic will have slightly different boundaries,  not everyone's are exactly the same, there's always wiggle room.

So do you mean as a third, for talk sake, you enter my dynamic with me and my partner.

You've stated you don't want sexual advances up until a certain point? Yet I start advancing at you in this way, and my partner isn't aware of it? So I just act like nothing happened and carried on?

 

Or do you mean like my boundary is no sexual anything with me or him, and you try on one of us and don't tell the other?

At the end of the day it boils down to honesty and transparency. 

If someone or a group of people have boundaries, they need to make those 100% clear, in the same room at the same time with all people involved present and understanding. 

The moment anyone breaks agreed boundaries, trust or respect, they're cheating or deceiving their partner. If someone doesn't want to know what one of them does with the other then that's fair and I guess not technically wrong. It all boils down tho what all 2 or 3 people have agreed on.

 

I will say its hard trying to date a couple, and it's hard being part of a couple looking to date.

We seek a lady and I do the walking and talking and if I like her I introduce her to him or show him photos and conversation (platonic) and he'll say yay or nay. I enclose all there is to know about me and him as per our agreement and she has a choice on whether she wants to keep chatting or not. I'm the fussier one so he leaves it down to me, but its also because we share the same type a lot, and he trusts my judgement. He knows failed or successful,  ill tell him of any interaction with women and I do that out of love, care and respect.

The minute I hide something from him, is not Her being involved and it going wrong, it would be ME who's fucking it up. 

Any relationship or dynamic,  new or evolving,  that begins on lies and mistrust and overall tension and doubt, in my eyes is always doomed to fail.  

 

This is all my opinion here, nothing more nothing less. 

I like how you said waves. That's exactly it. And I do agree it's good to differentiate a dynamic from a relationship. For my experiences above, they were both dynamics plus the relationship. One partner made the advance, contacting me flirting or admitting feelings. I reciprocated in blind trust. I was naive and stupid, I had no vetting system.

I have been in many poly relationships (one lasting longer than a year). I never had the issue of "cheating" or rather deception because I'm not possesive. I don't believe a person "belongs" to me and in a sense that's objectification; not cool.

Almost every long distance relationship I have been in, I suggested my partners having a FWB. I agreed to this because I know they have physical needs and there was no way I could meet them 300-5000 miles away. One chose to continue his sexual lifestyle and I agreed only to verify with the women if they wanted. Aside from that I wanted no involvement. This worked well for us.

So yeah circling back to "overstepping" ... it's really the act of deception and how it harms the people involved

Unfortunately, when I disclosed everything to their partner, the blame got entirely shifted all on me. So yeah, it felt like they already had issues in their relationships prior and I just happen to be an easy target.

If you know me from chat, then you probably already have seen I'm not the petty or jealous type....in fact, I flirt with all identities. Beautiful people should be celebrated!! Also, I'm demi-sexual. So flirting amongst friends in a public chat feels safer for me than one on one.

I completely agree about your 2nd post. I too have been burned and devastated from cheating/deception. And honestly, from these interactions I posted about. This is how we learn. My vetting was poor then. Now it's better. Thanks so much for this Jen 🥰

[Je****]

11 hours ago, 165Sw33t said:

I like how you said waves. That's exactly it. And I do agree it's good to differentiate a dynamic from a relationship. For my experiences above, they were both dynamics plus the relationship. One partner made the advance, contacting me flirting or admitting feelings. I reciprocated in blind trust. I was naive and stupid, I had no vetting system.

I have been in many poly relationships (one lasting longer than a year). I never had the issue of "cheating" or rather deception because I'm not possesive. I don't believe a person "belongs" to me and in a sense that's objectification; not cool.

To me there is a slight difference between a dynamic and a relationship. A dynamic I would put towards an agreement, with boundaries and so on with kink and bdsm. Almost like an exchange. A relationship for me, while is a mutual agreement, doesn't have the same contents as a D/s dynamic and so on. But this is me. I know if differs per person/couple etc. 

 

Ok so, a couple I am assuming, showed interest in you? but ONE of them began to feel for you and you, for them? I mean, it's not about vetting if I am honest. I don't know if you can VET someone for feelings...? Feelings happen, and are not always in our control. Voicing them, however, is another thing. 

So this person told you they liked you or whatever, and their partner was aware? Or was this with held from them? 

I am reading it two ways..

1. One of a couple, admitted feels for you, without their partner knowing about it. And brought close without one knowing...?

2. One of a couple admitted feelings for you, with their partners knowledge, but the partner was not ok with it, so you got pushed out?

 

.

 

In Polyamory, there really should be NO cheating. Same as open relationships. It is literally open for NSA, or for other romances. If someone is poly, the one who told you feels, then they did nothing wrong as such, by telling you this, if it was how they felt. If they didn't give their partner the heads up that they were admitting this, then it's not okay imo. 

 

You have put deception, paired with jealousy/possessive, above in the comment. Can you explain this? 

I am not quite sure what it means. 

 

Jealousy is another natural human emotion but personally, I do not think anyone who is jealous (and can't help control that), shouldn't be in a relationship with someone who's open/poly. That they themselves shouldn't be in an open thing, because if jealousy is going to be constant, then nothing open will work? It would be nothing but chaos and strain on him/her/them.

 

Being possessive however, is another thing entirely. Some people like that, in a mono relationship/agreed dynamic sure. But no one in their right mind who was possessive and jealous would put themselves or their partner into an open or poly situation. I personally like possessiveness to a degree. Where its cute and protective and I feel safe and cared for as such. But there is a line, and it becomes very, very toxic once crossed.

If someone is possessive to the point the person they date/married to or whatever, cannot freely do anything without them needing to over see it, know where they are at all times, control who they talk to and when, stop them doing things, gaslight, narc behaviours and even violence and abuse can come into play. It is all down to HOW that individual manages their behaviour. If someone tried to stop me doing anything, was in my space all the time and was controlling me to the point I couldn't breathe, or worse, feared them or what they'd do if someone spoke to me, that's not ok.

 

I am speaking generally as I have no ideas on any dynamics or relationships, poly or not that you have been in, so without a clear example I can only go off what this post states, but I am someone who analyses and theorizes everything and every possibility.

[Je****]

11 hours ago, 165Sw33t said:

Almost every long distance relationship I have been in, I suggested my partners having a FWB. I agreed to this because I know they have physical needs and there was no way I could meet them 300-5000 miles away. One chose to continue his sexual lifestyle and I agreed only to verify with the women if they wanted. Aside from that I wanted no involvement. This worked well for us.

So yeah circling back to "overstepping" ... it's really the act of deception and how it harms the people involved

Unfortunately, when I disclosed everything to their partner, the blame got entirely shifted all on me. So yeah, it felt like they already had issues in their relationships prior and I just happen to be an easy target.

If you know me from chat, then you probably already have seen I'm not the petty or jealous type....in fact, I flirt with all identities. Beautiful people should be celebrated!! Also, I'm demi-sexual. So flirting amongst friends in a public chat feels safer for me than one on one.

I completely agree about your 2nd post. I too have been burned and devastated from cheating/deception.

What do you mean verify with the women if they wanted? 

Sorry sometimes I don't understand.

As for having LDR and "needs", I get it. I had a LDR with my partner for 2.5yr. We were only like 500km apart, but across the water, so upping and leaving to see them for a day was hard for my childcare commitments, and their work commitments. So eventually we compromised and he moved over here to be with me.

That being said, he has a partner in his home place, where as I did not. So I was able to have needs met by dating other men or women and getting some "satisfaction" should I have wanted it. I am much more sexual than he is, so it was more of a struggle for me. But despite this having happened, here we are, still together. It doesn't mean that if I spend time with someone else, that I don't want him anymore. It used to be a worry for me, but time and practise, communication and reassurance is what's needed to make that work. It's ok if one is happy not playing with others, but if the other wants an itch scratched (if open or poly) then they should be able to do that without worry. 

 

.

 

But yes deception isn't nice. Deception means along the lines of being lured under false pretences. And sadly if you have taken any brunt, then it means they've panicked about their partner, shifted the blame and it shouts either fear or deceit to me. They're worried what the other half will do or say if they stayed involved with you as ones not ok with it, OR, they were doing this without their partner aware.

If you do get lumped with the blame, then either send proof, or if that fails, walk away, realise that it's not you who is hurt, it's that couple being damaged. No trust or connection strong enough to deal with another person (if they've previously said they could) and that those are relationship issues they need to work on alone. Baffles me when people hurt others, but it happens. Just about saying right, you know what, you guys have some serious issues between you,  I won't get involved. A strong relationship can cope with additional people (some times) but usually much more, then couples with problems. 

It's best as you said before, to have group chats with a couple, and have all with access to what's being done or said, and don't allow any to contact you privately because usually if they do, its to conceal something from the other.

 

Flirting etc is normal. It's ok to flirt. If someone gets pissed off with their partner being flirted with, say in an open space like chat, then it's best to recognise there's some serious underlaying issues at play and to stop the banter with those people. I cannot speak for your relationships, where ever or whoever they may be, just what has been said here, and what I would do or feel if in your shoes, and for me, I'd honestly probably take a break of couples, maybe let one approach you. Keep it away from social places you regular, like your own pub or club or even the chatroom here, cus it usually always gets messy. Don't shit where you eat kind of thing.

[16****]

2 hours ago, Jeneral_Whore said:

To me there is a slight difference between a dynamic and a relationship. A dynamic I would put towards an agreement, with boundaries and so on with kink and bdsm. Almost like an exchange. A relationship for me, while is a mutual agreement, doesn't have the same contents as a D/s dynamic and so on. But this is me. I know if differs per person/couple etc. 

 

Ok so, a couple I am assuming, showed interest in you? but ONE of them began to feel for you and you, for them? I mean, it's not about vetting if I am honest. I don't know if you can VET someone for feelings...? Feelings happen, and are not always in our control. Voicing them, however, is another thing. 

So this person told you they liked you or whatever, and their partner was aware? Or was this with held from them? 

I am reading it two ways..

1. One of a couple, admitted feels for you, without their partner knowing about it. And brought close without one knowing...?

2. One of a couple admitted feelings for you, with their partners knowledge, but the partner was not ok with it, so you got pushed out?

 

.

 

In Polyamory, there really should be NO cheating. Same as open relationships. It is literally open for NSA, or for other romances. If someone is poly, the one who told you feels, then they did nothing wrong as such, by telling you this, if it was how they felt. If they didn't give their partner the heads up that they were admitting this, then it's not okay imo. 

 

You have put deception, paired with jealousy/possessive, above in the comment. Can you explain this? 

I am not quite sure what it means. 

 

Jealousy is another natural human emotion but personally, I do not think anyone who is jealous (and can't help control that), shouldn't be in a relationship with someone who's open/poly. That they themselves shouldn't be in an open thing, because if jealousy is going to be constant, then nothing open will work? It would be nothing but chaos and strain on him/her/them.

 

Being possessive however, is another thing entirely. Some people like that, in a mono relationship/agreed dynamic sure. But no one in their right mind who was possessive and jealous would put themselves or their partner into an open or poly situation. I personally like possessiveness to a degree. Where its cute and protective and I feel safe and cared for as such. But there is a line, and it becomes very, very toxic once crossed.

If someone is possessive to the point the person they date/married to or whatever, cannot freely do anything without them needing to over see it, know where they are at all times, control who they talk to and when, stop them doing things, gaslight, narc behaviours and even violence and abuse can come into play. It is all down to HOW that individual manages their behaviour. If someone tried to stop me doing anything, was in my space all the time and was controlling me to the point I couldn't breathe, or worse, feared them or what they'd do if someone spoke to me, that's not ok.

 

I am speaking generally as I have no ideas on any dynamics or relationships, poly or not that you have been in, so without a clear example I can only go off what this post states, but I am someone who analyses and theorizes everything and every possibility.

I love your responses, there's so much to "chew on". I don't want to target anyone so I feel it's best to be objective answering some of your questions. I agree with the difference between dynamics and relationships. I also agree that there is a difference between hitting on someone and just expressing feelings. I have had both happen to me.

In all situations, I was contacted and pursued first. Whether it's an advancement (flirting, trying to hook up, etc.) or an expression of feelings, those actions plant seeds. It's like that wave of effect you mentioned in your earlier posts.
And in all situations, I wasn't told if their partners were aware of the situation or not.

I don't go out of my way putting my nose in other people's relationships or dynamics (unless it's offered or shared in public forum). I have a pretty busy life and keep to myself.

I never really looked at possession being a cute thing 🤔. I'll consider it for sure. I always thought to possess something was to own it like an object. But I can see how in a commitment there is also ownership of the other person's well-being and care. Will definitely dissect this more.

I also agree about toxic possession as well as relationships. I don't look at relationships/dynamics to fix me.... that's my job. But I do see them as something to add to my life.

I would actually verify or rather fully disclose with the women my partner vetted so the knew I was okay with the situation. Our accounts were linked at some point too. So, again just another way of being fully transparent. But that's what I love about this community is the diversity and how dynamics and even relationships can be tailored to each individual.

I will say after reflecting about this in forum, I think overall I just have disappointment. Disappointed that both partners didn't value me as I valued them. That instead of appreciating my consideration and attempt to make things transparent, I was the scapegoat. I can't control how they respond or take it. So I have definitely grown from this experience

[Chloebear]

Not everyone is poly, and this isn’t a reflection on relationship strength, just on relationship style. @Jen the possessiveness thing is a strong component of D/s for many in dynamics, up to and including partner choice and ownership, even up to the sub as a possession. It’s complex and bespoke to the dynamic, but I agree that there’s the possibility for it to be toxic when motivations for that behaviour are iffy.

[Je****]

21 minutes ago, 165Sw33t said:

And in all situations, I wasn't told if their partners were aware of the situation or not.

I don't go out of my way putting my nose in other people's relationships or dynamics (unless it's offered or shared in public forum). I have a pretty busy life and keep to myself.

While is this true, to not stick a nose in. It's always good to ask IF someone in a dynamic has said they've feelings for you, to know if this has been discussed with their partner. THEN you know what way to act or behave, how to reply and have an informed choice on whether or not you continue conversing.

[Je****]

23 minutes ago, 165Sw33t said:

I never really looked at possession being a cute thing 🤔. I'll consider it for sure. I always thought to possess something was to own it like an object.

Yes there is a "cute" way to do it, more protective and ownership, don't forget IS for some people and dynamics. Some people actually like being objectified. It is indeed a kink. :)

[Je****]

24 minutes ago, 165Sw33t said:

I would actually verify or rather fully disclose with the women my partner vetted so the knew I was okay with the situation. Our accounts were linked at some point too. So, again just another way of being fully transparent. But that's what I love about this community is the diversity and how dynamics and even relationships can be tailored to each individual.

Ok so. You are willing and able to verify the authenticity of a partner which is what you have said you're happy to do. However, people you seem to be interacting with (those who've admitted feels for example) are people who possibly??? haven't done the same. However while I agree it's always good you can vouch for someone you date, it's also good to ask people you are approached by if their partner is aware so THEY can let them know they're ok with the situation? If you see what I mean? 

[Je****]

27 minutes ago, 165Sw33t said:

I will say after reflecting about this in forum, I think overall I just have disappointment. Disappointed that both partners didn't value me as I valued them. That instead of appreciating my consideration and attempt to make things transparent, I was the scapegoat. I can't control how they respond or take it. So I have definitely grown from this experience

I will say this is possibly the best way to look at it. Disappointed. And sadly that's all it can maybe be with regard to some situations. Each one however is a learning curve, something to learn from.

Even if a dynamic or individual does let you  down, sometimes it's easier to walk away, keep the peace and stay friends or just block to protect further feelings and growing animosity xx

[Je****]

13 minutes ago, Chloebear said:

Not everyone is poly, and this isn’t a reflection on relationship strength, just on relationship style. @Jen the possessiveness thing is a strong component of D/s for many in dynamics, up to and including partner choice and ownership, even up to the sub as a possession. It’s complex and bespoke to the dynamic, but I agree that there’s the possibility for it to be toxic when motivations for that behaviour are iffy.

I agree. My comment on the possessiveness being more so toxic was in a place of couple who were open or poly. In my eyes, WHY be in an open thing if you're jealous and possessive? If you're never going to be ok within your self and the situation if you see someone as Yours, and only Yours.

Does that make sense?

There is indeed many (more so mono from what I have seen) relationships/dynamics, that have that ownership, possession and objectification kink and vibe and those 100% (or close to) work due to the fact those people know they belong to/with one another, and not to anyone else coming  in or advancing. If that makes sense?

It's more so a couple who are open/poly and one of them is simply NOT ok with others coming in or near their "property" despite having an open label? Kinda defeats the purpose or will lead to tension and heartache eventually. But that's my view on it. 

There has been times when someone has referred to me as "theirs" and I have found it really nice and sweet and almost a tad dominant, asserting over me so to speak, but for instance being with my partner now, being poly/open, if a new person was to come in and assert that over me, without my blessing/permission/ consent and was acting jealous and hostile with my already existing partner, or referring to me as Theirs any time I mentioned my partner, then that would be a problem for me. If mono with someone and they said this and no toxic traits (mention in other comments) were also present I would be fine with that "claim" over me.

[Th****]

18 hours ago, 165Sw33t said:

Almost every long distance relationship I have been in, I suggested my partners having a FWB. I agreed to this because I know they have physical needs and there was no way I could meet them 300-5000 miles away. One chose to continue his sexual lifestyle and I agreed only to verify with the women if they wanted. Aside from that I wanted no involvement. This worked well for us.

So yeah circling back to "overstepping" ... it's really the act of deception and how it harms the people involved

Unfortunately, when I disclosed everything to their partner, the blame got entirely shifted all on me. So yeah, it felt like they already had issues in their relationships prior and I just happen to be an easy target.

Do you see here that you are holding other people to different standards than you yourself had? You were available if your LDR partner's other partners wanted to verify but in the other scenarios you went out of your way to talk to the other person. I'm going to assume with how you said it turned out badly that you did so without the knowledge of the half you had been interacting with which to me would be inserting yourself into their relationship or dynamic and overstepping. Not everyone wants kitchen table or even parallel, some people practice don't ask don't tell and whatever your personal views are on dadt all you can do is choose not to participate if the way you prefer things to be differs from theirs. 

 

Imo "doing no harm" would be something like what BruisedScaredRabbit suggested. You having the boundary of telling someone you're talking to who has expressed interest that you will only consider a relationship or dynamic if you can verify their other partner(s) knowledge with them. 

 

[Je****]

20 minutes ago, ThaliaVirago said:

Do you see here that you are holding other people to different standards than you yourself had? You were available if your LDR partner's other partners wanted to verify but in the other scenarios you went out of your way to talk to the other person. I'm going to assume with how you said it turned out badly that you did so without the knowledge of the half you had been interacting with which to me would be inserting yourself into their relationship or dynamic and overstepping. Not everyone wants kitchen table or even parallel, some people practice don't ask don't tell and whatever your personal views are on dadt all you can do is choose not to participate if the way you prefer things to be differs from theirs. 

 

Imo "doing no harm" would be something like what BruisedScaredRabbit suggested. You having the boundary of telling someone you're talking to who has expressed interest that you will only consider a relationship or dynamic if you can verify their other partner(s) knowledge with them. 

 

I am not seeing that User's comment on here. Was it on this thread? I only see myself, Chloe and Yourself here xx

[Th****]

1 minute ago, Jeneral_Whore said:

I am not seeing that User's comment on here. Was it on this thread? I only see myself, Chloe and Yourself here xx

Weird, yeah, gemini_man and one other person commented as well 

[Th****]

On 7/24/2023 at 2:45 AM, BruisedScaredRabbit said:

What I can tell you is that it is perfectly reasonable for this to be a boundary/requirement for you. From past experience not everyone is open to this level of transparency. Some of those partners are ok with the idea of being open or poly but don’t want to have it in their face. Some partners are kept ignorant either because it really is cheating or their partner is protecting their emotions. So step lightly and make it your boundary - if they aren’t transparent you won’t participate rather than forcing interaction on their partner if they don’t welcome that knowledge. Might be received better but it’s tough to make that kind of boundary. You have to stick to not participating if they really want you to be a secret. No matter how much you would otherwise like them. But for some this level of disclosure is a threat to their dynamic/relationship. As messed up as that may seem to those of us who like/need transparency.

Here's their comment, wonder if it will come through for you this way? 

[Je****]

5 minutes ago, ThaliaVirago said:

Here's their comment, wonder if it will come through for you this way? 

I can see that yes ty. I haven't blocked these users, so bizarre.

[Je****]

I agree with Bruised. xx

[Br****]

I haven’t blocked you either. Just a bug I guess.