Gatekeeping vs Fake Kinksters

[Deleted Member]

Like any community, we all know there is a fair amount of Gatekeeping here. However, I believe there are behaviors that do exclude someone from being a true kinksters. Some people would say being a brat makes someone a fake sub. For me, people who break the rules of SSC and RACK are outside the bounds of true BDSM. What are everyone’s rules and lines of this?

[Ta****]

I'm not sure about gatekeeping or even what the acronyms you used are but are there defines parameters for people to be within the bounds of bdsm?
I'll tell you what I see if this site/app... littles looking for daddy to do everything for them. So weeding out what seems like gold diggers leaves very few individuals unless there really are a majority of kinksters that are actually real littles. But if it's how I imagine, it seems very fake and taints the scene for myself and a few others I know.

[ge****]

The words "fake" and "true" arethrown about a lot on sites like this, and to be honest I don't think anyone is "fake". Ater all, one person's "fake" may be another person's "genuine" and as there are no specific definitions for what a "kinkster" is to be able to make the distinction, so it's all very subjective.
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I do however think there are those that demonstrate a lack of knowledge and understanding and whose views on the subject are at best incompatible with my own and at worst somewhat dangerous.
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We each have to make our own judgement calls about others, which is why it's important to educate ourselves first and foremost to gather our own personal understanding and definition of what this lifestyle means to us

[NowIAmTheMaster]

There's definitely a degree of gatekeeping. I fully agree with you about people who actively ignore SSC and RACK being a danger. Often people who are perceived to be fake kinksters are simply new to the lifestyle and inexperienced.

For instance I have lots of subs message me calling me daddy immediately (master too but I give the benefit of the doubt there due to my user name). I explain to them that honourifics are earned not assumed and they take that advice on board. The ones who don't I'll block. It's similar to people who say they have no limits, if I'm told that my first question is "will you let someone shit in your mouth?" Limits suddenly appear after that. Often people try to go into this lifestyle without research or reading anything more than "that book series" and could benefit from a gentle introduction to the breadth of experience available. There are fakes and gatekeepers, but as long as the rest of us are open, welcoming and willing to help those who ask for it we can make it's a more inclusive lifestyle

[Co****]

Sorry, what do you mean by Gatekeeper?......

[Du****]

You shouldnt go throwing the word fake around its disrespectful, I myself prefer to call individuals like that "50 shades enthusiasts" I totally agree with your statement about safety protocols though, and people who dont know what those protocols are should educate themselves before even calling themselves part of the "scene" xD

[4R****]

I think this is very much an individual thing.

Many people will have nothing to do with someone identifying as a brat whilst there are others (like me) that enjoy that type of play, at least occasionally. There are of course those who are passing off rude and even toxic behaviour as being because they are a brat and unfortunately, certainly in the online world such as in forums, this has got the "brat" a bad name. 

FinDom is another one - many people see this as the scourge of the community and see FinDoms as 'fake' - whilst there is a whole kink surrounding it. And why not - why shouldn't people make a living out of something they enjoy as long as everything is consensual?

FuckBoys (and girls) - people who are in this just for sex but are claiming to be a Dominant or a Submissive. Now they might be dominant or submissive sexually and that's fine. But there's a world of difference between someone being dominant and someone being A Dominant (emphasis being on the "A"). Unfortunately this is one of the reasons so many end up hurt or think all they can find is fakes - they are not fakes, they are just looking for different things. This is why it's so important to go through vetting to ensure you're aligned. 

I understand the ethos of SSC (Safe, Sane & Consensual) and RACK (Risk Aware Consensual Kink) but there are other safety protocols such as 'Personal Responsibility In Consensual Kink' (PRICK) or 'Caring, Communications, Consent, Caution' (CCCC). There is no hard fast rule on which of these you should follow but let's be honest most extreme BDSM play is not Safe (even bondage is dangerous!) and what Sane person allows someone to choke them out or hit them to the extent that they draw blood. What we do is we assess the risks involved and consent to these types of play fully informed of the risks (Informed Consent or I.C.).

So whilst you may consider anything in excess of SSC or RACK as "outside the bounds of true (I hate that word) BDSM" I see SSC as the tamer end of things..... people engaging in a bit of kinky sex as it were - RACK (to me) is more what people can do in BDSM clubs (nothing too extreme) - whilst I generally play in more in the realms of PRICK, CCCC and IC. All of this is under the general umbrella of BDSM.

Each to their own!

Edited September 29 by 4RCH

[Xa****]

2 hours ago, 4RCH said:

I think this is very much an individual thing.

Many people will have nothing to do with someone identifying as a brat whilst there are others (like me) that enjoy that type of play, at least occasionally. There are of course those who are passing off rude and even toxic behaviour as being because they are a brat and unfortunately, certainly in the online world such as in forums, this has got the "brat" a bad name. 

FinDom is another one - many people see this as the scourge of the community and see FinDoms as 'fake' - whilst there is a whole kink surrounding it. And why not - why shouldn't people make a living out of something they enjoy as long as everything is consensual?

FuckBoys (and girls) - people who are in this just for sex but are claiming to be a Dominant or a Submissive. Now they might be dominant or submissive sexually and that's fine. But there's a world of difference between someone being dominant and someone being A Dominant (emphasis being on the "A"). Unfortunately this is one of the reasons so many end up hurt or think all they can find is fakes - they are not fakes, they are just looking for different things. This is why it's so important to go through vetting to ensure you're aligned. 

I understand the ethos of SSC (Safe, Sane & Consensual) and RACK (Risk Aware Consensual Kink) but there are other safety protocols such as 'Personal Responsibility In Consensual Kink' (PRICK) or 'Caring, Communications, Consent, Caution' (CCCC). There is no hard fast rule on which of these you should follow but let's be honest most extreme BDSM play is not Safe (even bondage is dangerous!) and what Sane person allows someone to choke them out or hit them to the extent that they draw blood. What we do is we assess the risks involved and consent to these types of play fully informed of the risks (Informed Consent or I.C.).

So whilst you may consider anything in excess of SSC or RACK as "outside the bounds of true (I hate that word) BDSM" I see SSC as the tamer end of things..... people engaging in a bit of kinky sex as it were - RACK (to me) is more what people can do in BDSM clubs (nothing too extreme) - whilst I generally play in more in the realms of PRICK, CCCC and IC. All of this is under the general umbrella of BDSM.

Each to their own!

Hear Hear! My only comments are that the real issue with Findom specifically online is when the people selling their service do so in a very decietful way. I feel it's very damaging to the community when a findom feign interest in a non financially motivated relationship to attempt to hook someone, even going so far as to practice scammer tactics and lie about what they're here for. That atleast to me hurts the ima

[da****]

What is gate keeping ? I get the fakes Thera are too many fake subs baby girls and doms but never heard the term hate keeper?

[da****]

And sorry screen is cracked spelling is a bit off

[ge****]

20 minutes ago, daddy-damo said:

What is gate keeping ? I get the fakes Thera are too many fake subs baby girls and doms but never heard the term hate keeper?

This is a pretty good definition:

"To limit another party's participation in a collective identity or activity, usually due to undue pettiness, resentment, or overprotectiveness."

Basically those who try and dictate how others should be/behave based on their own subjective views rather than objective definition. And that includes those who bandy about the terms "true" and "fake"

[da****]

Ok great thank you for the definition.

[ka****]

A brat is a brat, why define as fake sub

[Deleted Member]

4 hours ago, 4RCH said:

I think this is very much an individual thing.

Many people will have nothing to do with someone identifying as a brat whilst there are others (like me) that enjoy that type of play, at least occasionally. There are of course those who are passing off rude and even toxic behaviour as being because they are a brat and unfortunately, certainly in the online world such as in forums, this has got the "brat" a bad name. 

FinDom is another one - many people see this as the scourge of the community and see FinDoms as 'fake' - whilst there is a whole kink surrounding it. And why not - why shouldn't people make a living out of something they enjoy as long as everything is consensual?

FuckBoys (and girls) - people who are in this just for sex but are claiming to be a Dominant or a Submissive. Now they might be dominant or submissive sexually and that's fine. But there's a world of difference between someone being dominant and someone being A Dominant (emphasis being on the "A"). Unfortunately this is one of the reasons so many end up hurt or think all they can find is fakes - they are not fakes, they are just looking for different things. This is why it's so important to go through vetting to ensure you're aligned. 

I understand the ethos of SSC (Safe, Sane & Consensual) and RACK (Risk Aware Consensual Kink) but there are other safety protocols such as 'Personal Responsibility In Consensual Kink' (PRICK) or 'Caring, Communications, Consent, Caution' (CCCC). There is no hard fast rule on which of these you should follow but let's be honest most extreme BDSM play is not Safe (even bondage is dangerous!) and what Sane person allows someone to choke them out or hit them to the extent that they draw blood. What we do is we assess the risks involved and consent to these types of play fully informed of the risks (Informed Consent or I.C.).

So whilst you may consider anything in excess of SSC or RACK as "outside the bounds of true (I hate that word) BDSM" I see SSC as the tamer end of things..... people engaging in a bit of kinky sex as it were - RACK (to me) is more what people can do in BDSM clubs (nothing too extreme) - whilst I generally play in more in the realms of PRICK, CCCC and IC. All of this is under the general umbrella of BDSM.

Each to their own!

Love this. I should clarify that it’s the consent part that is the red flag for me. We hear stories about people ignoring hard limits or safe words. Being dishonest about your intentions or relationships status to have a dynamic. In other words, ignoring or robbing the other person from consent. To me that’s deplorable.

[Ro****]

5 hours ago, 4RCH said:

I think this is very much an individual thing.

Many people will have nothing to do with someone identifying as a brat whilst there are others (like me) that enjoy that type of play, at least occasionally. There are of course those who are passing off rude and even toxic behaviour as being because they are a brat and unfortunately, certainly in the online world such as in forums, this has got the "brat" a bad name. 

FinDom is another one - many people see this as the scourge of the community and see FinDoms as 'fake' - whilst there is a whole kink surrounding it. And why not - why shouldn't people make a living out of something they enjoy as long as everything is consensual?

FuckBoys (and girls) - people who are in this just for sex but are claiming to be a Dominant or a Submissive. Now they might be dominant or submissive sexually and that's fine. But there's a world of difference between someone being dominant and someone being A Dominant (emphasis being on the "A"). Unfortunately this is one of the reasons so many end up hurt or think all they can find is fakes - they are not fakes, they are just looking for different things. This is why it's so important to go through vetting to ensure you're aligned. 

I understand the ethos of SSC (Safe, Sane & Consensual) and RACK (Risk Aware Consensual Kink) but there are other safety protocols such as 'Personal Responsibility In Consensual Kink' (PRICK) or 'Caring, Communications, Consent, Caution' (CCCC). There is no hard fast rule on which of these you should follow but let's be honest most extreme BDSM play is not Safe (even bondage is dangerous!) and what Sane person allows someone to choke them out or hit them to the extent that they draw blood. What we do is we assess the risks involved and consent to these types of play fully informed of the risks (Informed Consent or I.C.).

So whilst you may consider anything in excess of SSC or RACK as "outside the bounds of true (I hate that word) BDSM" I see SSC as the tamer end of things..... people engaging in a bit of kinky sex as it were - RACK (to me) is more what people can do in BDSM clubs (nothing too extreme) - whilst I generally play in more in the realms of PRICK, CCCC and IC. All of this is under the general umbrella of BDSM.

Each to their own!

I like this, but have a caveat when it comes to fin/prodommes. I see a lot of people that really promote fin/pro as the standard for female doms. The number of times I see "it should be expected for someone that's put in the effort to learn their skills to charge you for their time" makes me think there is a large effort to make paying for play the expected default. It assumes that no one but the dominant knows anything or has any experience. It creates a false impression that subs shouldnt and arent expected to bring anything of value to a dynamic. I dont have a problem with fin/pro dommes as individuals, but I think the larger culture around them is manipulative, dishonest, harmful, and counterproductive.

[4R****]

41 minutes ago, RockfordSub86 said:

The number of times I see "it should be expected for someone that's put in the effort to learn their skills to charge you for their time" makes me think there is a large effort to make paying for play the expected default. It assumes that no one but the dominant knows anything or has any experience. It creates a false impression that subs shouldnt and arent expected to bring anything of value to a dynamic. I dont have a problem with fin/pro dommes as individuals, but I think the larger culture around them is manipulative, dishonest, harmful, and counterproductive.

Very well put!

[gi****]

1 hour ago, DenverKitten said:

Love this. I should clarify that it’s the consent part that is the red flag for me. We hear stories about people ignoring hard limits or safe words. Being dishonest about your intentions or relationships status to have a dynamic. In other words, ignoring or robbing the other person from consent. To me that’s deplorable.

I absolutely agree with this.  I hate "gatekeeping;" my "yuck" may be your "yum."  I do think that when the ability to consent is removed (through deceit or direct actions) this moves out of the place where it is merely about yuck and yum, and into a space that does need to get called out.  Porn normalizes the idea of nonconsensuality.  Podcasts, TikToks, Tweets (or is it X's now), normalize toxicity.  I think it may be a fine line, but an important one, between "gatekeeping" and calling out toxicity. I love that you began this thread and hope that the engagement continues.  Thanks

[subbie00]

2 hours ago, giraut said:

I absolutely agree with this.  I hate "gatekeeping;" my "yuck" may be your "yum."  I do think that when the ability to consent is removed (through deceit or direct actions) this moves out of the place where it is merely about yuck and yum, and into a space that does need to get called out.  Porn normalizes the idea of nonconsensuality.  Podcasts, TikToks, Tweets (or is it X's now), normalize toxicity.  I think it may be a fine line, but an important one, between "gatekeeping" and calling out toxicity. I love that you began this thread and hope that the engagement continues.  Thanks

I have literally no clue what a word of this means

...😂🤣😂

[Mi****]

9 minutes ago, subbie00 said:

I have literally no clue what a word of this means

...😂🤣😂

That’s too bad because it’s really good. Maybe put it into chat gpt and ask it to be summarized for you.

[CopperKnob]

It may be argued that there is a degree of gatekeeping within this OP. Food for thought. Maybe.
.
I'm not sure it's gatekeeping, more people voicing how they perceive/choose to practice kink as individuals.

[Deleted Member]

17 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

It may be argued that there is a degree of gatekeeping within this OP. Food for thought. Maybe.
.
I'm not sure it's gatekeeping, more people voicing how they perceive/choose to practice kink as individuals.

I think that’s the conundrum I’m positing. Is it necessary? Is it expected? Where do we draw the line? Can we draw a line? I’m just mostly curious to hear others thoughts.

[gi****]

30 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

It may be argued that there is a degree of gatekeeping within this OP. Food for thought. Maybe.
.
I'm not sure it's gatekeeping, more people voicing how they perceive/choose to practice kink as individuals.

I'm certain I can be guilty of it. Though I do try not to be. Like I said in my previous post, there is fine line, and I'm sure I, unintentionally, cross it. I'm an old worry wart when it comes to nonconsensuality and unsafe play. If I've crossed that line to gatekeeping, I apologize.

[Deleted Member]

4 minutes ago, giraut said:

I'm certain I can be guilty of it. Though I do try not to be. Like I said in my previous post, there is fine line, and I'm sure I, unintentionally, cross it. I'm an old worry wart when it comes to nonconsensuality and unsafe play. If I've crossed that line to gatekeeping, I apologize.

I was reading an article about cultural relativism. Which is the belief we can’t judge the moral code of other cultures based on our own. The author believes, however, there has to be some line that humanity says “not okay” regardless of culture to promote positive change. Now I’m wondering how this idea relates to kink. Don’t yuck others yum, but are there universal “not okay” lines?? If so what are they?

[gi****]

Ooo, interesting. That is intriguing.

[CopperKnob]

12 minutes ago, DenverKitten said:

I was reading an article about cultural relativism. Which is the belief we can’t judge the moral code of other cultures based on our own. The author believes, however, there has to be some line that humanity says “not okay” regardless of culture to promote positive change. Now I’m wondering how this idea relates to kink. Don’t yuck others yum, but are there universal “not okay” lines?? If so what are they?

Morals, ethics and law. Regardless of culture/religion etc there will be some common ground?