The difference between obedience and true surrender

[Do****]

Many submissives believe that obedience alone is enough to please a Dominant.
Yet obedience is only the surface.
Surrender that quiet, complete letting go, free from *** or pretense is something that cannot be taught.
It's built through trust, consistency, and control.

How do you, experienced ones, recognize when a submissive has truly crossed that line when they stopped "playing a role" and started living their submission?

I'd love to hear your thoughts, stories, or even disagreements.
The discussion is open to all sides of D/s.

[Deleted Member]

I couldn’t agree more, I am submissive and giving up total control is more than obedience, it’s intoxicating giving up all your power to another person.

[Da****]

It will probably vary from each connection/relationship as everyone's connection varies.

One D/s could be so connected that they both completely build that trust very quickly. The Dom able to get the Sub to easily given and the sub giving the Dom control they need naturally.

Whereas others might take years of consistency.

Not only is every Dom and Sub different, but each connection/relation is different. Some are naturally more stronger, others need much more time.

It is ofcourse up to us Doms to make the Sub feel completely safe and know that we are giving them what they want, before they will trust and let us control them. Trust is earned whether we are Doms or not.

That surrender from the Sub comes from feeling completely safe, knowing they can trust the Dom to ensure they feel good and fulfilled, and that the Dom is all in it for the D/S relation and not just selfish gratification.

That's what it all comes down to from my opinion

[Da****]

As a submissive, I know the relationship is about giving over one's self and control to another. There is more than obedience, there comes a natural desire to let the Master or Mistress control every aspect and trust that the Master or Mistress has the subs well being in mind. There is nothing more satisfying than giving that control up when you know you are safe and can be molded into a better person to better fit your role. Subs are not ***. Obedience, respect, loyalty, and power exchange come from us having enough trust in our Master or Mistress to know that They have taken that power with diligence and the responsibility that comes with that power. That feeling, that is the definition of sub space for me. Knowing that under a Master's control, I don't need to worry about my safety, my growth, and my happiness, that is the ultimate experience. Yes, my happiness comes mainly from my Master's happiness, but His happiness comes from me giving to Him everything I am or can be. And, only by doing that, can a submissive really grow and excel.

[My****]

This sounds like the difference between two Dommes being bitchy or strict. The bitchy one will never get true surrender, she’ll always only have a sub always only obedient, while the other strict Domme has used the necessary manipulative means to mold the sub to be more than merely obedient but to also live their life for them.

[typhoon2]

I inspire my submissives and bottoms to not just obey but to strive to please me. I don't want a doormat; I want a human being who thinks for themself and wants to make me happy, secure in the knowledge that I will do my best to protect them and pleasure them in turn. Anyone can be obedient; not everyone is proactive.

[si****]

100% agree

[Ru****]

It's mindset. I can hurt you. That's cool, but it's boring for me. Like being a conducter, i can keep a tempo. Tap, tap, tap

But to make music with a sub. It needs to be a shared experience of give and take that fills and regulates you, just like it does them. To make music, your soul needs to be in it. No soul, no music.
It is the conductor /dom that is simply giving direction to the music. But both have submitted to the song.

That, to me, is the difference between obedience and submission. Because I see you and have given you love, safety, understanding, and most importantly, a purpose.
You are not on your knees cause I asked, you are there because to be anywhere else would hurt.

[Deleted Member]

"Total surrender" and a desire to let someone control every aspect - that is a slave in my humble opinion. I don't want it, I don't seek it and no doubt some would consider me not a sub because of my views.

[ey****]

A lot of relationships and dynamics vary between people

it's only "wrong" if it doesn't work for them

mind, yep, obedience is often of little value as it is just like a puppy following commands in the hope of a treat, rather than actually being proactive.

but like "true" is a meaningless word.   The question really is what does submission look like to you, what would you expect from a sub. What are your requirements?  And they will differ to what someone else would want or expect.

[BruiseWayne]

7 hours ago, DominatrixArtemis said:

Many submissives believe that obedience alone is enough to please a Dominant.
Yet obedience is only the surface.
Surrender that quiet, complete letting go, free from *** or pretense is something that cannot be taught.
It's built through trust, consistency, and control.

How do you, experienced ones, recognize when a submissive has truly crossed that line when they stopped "playing a role" and started living their submission?

I'd love to hear your thoughts, stories, or even disagreements.
The discussion is open to all sides of D/s.

Alot of times that is enough to please a Dominant. Some people don't want to or simply don't have the capacity to go deeper into dynamics than that and that's perfectly okay. Not everybody feels this shit deep within their bones and as a result don't need someone else surrendering to them in kind so they can feel fulfilled and properly served and pleased as a Dominant individual. 

 

Frankly it's rare that a submissive actually even becomes that vessel of pure subservience to begin with. From what I've seen most don't want to fall into that deeper level of submission because quite frankly it can be frightening and it takes an insane amount of courage to even do so in the first place. Most subs just want someone to alleviate their stress, quiet their mind, get some kinky taboo thrills, play some bedroom games, and call it a day. 

 

To answer your question though, honestly for me it's more of a feeling. I know it when I see it. It's just the way they carry themselves. What their views on submission even are to begin with. How they approach interactions with a Dominant, etc etc etc. What they reveal about themselves over the course of the vetting process. Really it's just one of those things that comes down to pure vibes. At least for me anyway. But I always know the ones who are not only capable of but eager to surrender the entirety of their soul to someone else when I'm presented with them.  

 

In my experience they're quite rare these days unfortunately though. 

[Laycette]

Within a session conrext, whether pro or domestic, obedience and willingness to obey commands is one thing, and a baseline expectation. However for a dominant the pleasure of seeing a sub struggle, have their boundaries pushed, obeying when it is difficult and going beyond themselves is what it is about.

Within a Ds context it is more nuanced. A slave that blindly obeys may sometimes do their owner a disservice if the outcome reflects badly on them, is thoughtless or not appropriate to circumstance.

The slave ought to demonstrate always that they are thinking and behaving to their owner's best interests as well as fulfilling orders as best they can.

[Co****]

A sub once told me about a specific scene/ritual that if I did not restrain him I “have the pleasure of knowing he will willingly stay there. That is obedience & I aim to please”

For me simply put; there has to be a balance between eagerness and willingness. In a D/s dynamic as a dominant I absolutely need a challenge and, to know I am l pushing levels of boundaries and comfort levels to stimulate imagination and play.

A sub who is willingly do a task or ritual that may be difficult or humiliating because they are ”aiming to please” that is obedience

A sub who will willingly give fully their mind and body in trust to me and make themselves “vunerable” in order us to reapond to each others “needs” in that scenario that is surrendering.

[BruiseWayne]

17 hours ago, fififufu said:

"Total surrender" and a desire to let someone control every aspect - that is a slave in my humble opinion. I don't want it, I don't seek it and no doubt some would consider me not a sub because of my views.

You'd have to be either very closed minded or very inexperienced to not understand that there are many many levels to which a person is comfortable with how much control they're going to relinquish to someone else. 

 

I think most people here are being poetic and romantic when they talk about surrendering themselves in this instance though. Not all of them mean it in the literal sense nor do they probably all enjoy the idea of total slavery themselves either and aren't keen on the idea of legit M/s dynamic themselves.

 

I was just discussing this with someone recently and for better or worse people often ascribe their own meaning to the terms we use and to be perfectly honest that's okay, and I actually think it's a good thing because it leaves more room for self expression and creativity along the way even if the definitions and expectations that come along with certain words might get muddled a little bit. 

 

Edited October 10 by BruiseWayne
spelling etc

[BruiseWayne]

13 hours ago, Laycette said:

A slave that blindly obeys may sometimes do their owner a disservice if the outcome reflects badly on them, is thoughtless or not appropriate to circumstance.

Exactly. And plus despite what some submissives might want to think, we aren't completely infallible omni capable all-seeing Godlike beings who always know the best course of action and have absolutely 0 blindspots when it comes to ourselves or the people who are in our service. 

 

Frankly I love a submissive that can ( politely and respectfully of course ) fill in the blanks when and if I should happen to falter, and don't simply just blindly follow each and every single little thing. Especially when there's corrections to be made, or instances where the experience can be elevated by doing things a different way than I demanded. 

 

Nothing pleases me more than a proactive, mindful submissive who isn't afraid to speak up when and if it's called for. 

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, BruiseWayne said:

You'd have to be either very closed minded or very inexperienced to not understand that there are many many levels to which a person is comfortable with how much control they're going to relinquish to someone else. 

 

I think most people here are being poetic and romantic when they talk about surrendering themselves in this instance though. Not all of them mean it in the literal sense nor do they probably all enjoy the idea of total slavery themselves either and aren't keen on the idea of legit M/s dynamic themselves.

 

I was just discussing this with someone recently and for better or worse people often ascribe their own meaning to the terms we use and to be perfectly honest that's okay, and I actually think it's a good thing because it leaves more room for self expression and creativity along the way even if the definitions and expectations that come along with certain words might get muddled a little bit. 

 

I do understand that for some, total surrender is the dynamic they wish for. I think the OP has implied that anything less isn't true D/s. You could be right in that people are being poetic and romantic and I am taking them too literally. I can't tell.

[BruiseWayne]

18 minutes ago, fififufu said:

I do understand that for some, total surrender is the dynamic they wish for. I think the OP has implied that anything less isn't true D/s. You could be right in that people are being poetic and romantic and I am taking them too literally. I can't tell.

Yeah see that's the thing though. It can be hard to tell sometimes. Kink is about personal expression every bit as anything else. 

 

And while I do encourage people to call out 'fake' Doms and subs I think sometimes ( and I'm not saying that's going here ) people get a little too trigger happy and tend to label those who fall outside of their own personal definitions to be 'fake'- which is absolutely not good.

 

I'm giving the OP The benefit of the doubt in thinking that's not what they meant though because that would be sh*tty kind of gatekeeping. 

 

And if they were perhaps we can chalk it up to a bit of inexperience on their part if we're being charitable here. 

[la****]

You brought this topic up at least 2 times. My question is can you earn someone’s complete submission and control?

[2G****]

Thursday at 11:32 AM, DarklordDrakmore said:

It will probably vary from each connection/relationship as everyone's connection varies.

One D/s could be so connected that they both completely build that trust very quickly. The Dom able to get the Sub to easily given and the sub giving the Dom control they need naturally.

Whereas others might take years of consistency.

Not only is every Dom and Sub different, but each connection/relation is different. Some are naturally more stronger, others need much more time.

It is ofcourse up to us Doms to make the Sub feel completely safe and know that we are giving them what they want, before they will trust and let us control them. Trust is earned whether we are Doms or not.

That surrender from the Sub comes from feeling completely safe, knowing they can trust the Dom to ensure they feel good and fulfilled, and that the Dom is all in it for the D/S relation and not just selfish gratification.

That's what it all comes down to from my opinion

Very well said. I've had countless conversations with multiple people claiming to a Dom or worse a Master. 1. A Master/Mistress must serve under another Master/Mistress before earning the title of Master/Mistress. Most of the ones I've talked to claiming to be that are just men who view women we are beneath them. They wish to just use a woman for their personal amusement and treat them like utter pieces of crap. Even had one today tell me that I would eat their poop. I clearly state on my profile that is a hard limit. I know bring a slave that your not supposed to have limits but you have to trust that person. We are putting our lives in your hands. we can't be expected to trust you just because you say your a Dom. When asked how many he would trust with his life he replied none. It is so hard finding real dominants here.

[2G****]

@DominatrixArtemis, to your question I give the answer that to me, giving someone my complete submission is the ultimate gift that I could ever give anyone. At that point I am giving them every last part of me and that is something no one has ever gotten before. My pleasure becomes pleasing them. and that becomes obvious in the way I do things. I wish to please you no matter what. Things that I did just because you enjoyed them and not for my pleasure becomes pleasurable to me. I start to get excited because your enjoying it and that is my goal. Obedience is doing something because I'm told whether I like it or not. It is when you can see that I an now enjoying that task because I'm pleasing you is when that cross over has happened.

[gi****]

Interesting I might be new to the labeled side of the lifestyle, but if my understanding is aligned with the community, there might be a Dominant in me. I guess I’ve never really tried to define my dynamics or kinks. Just naturally led relationships in a D/s‑style dynamic for years. I just never realized it .

The only time I experienced genuine submission from a partner was after four years together. By the time the dynamic finally revealed itself, we were different people. But when that surrender actually clicked, nights turned into mornings without us even realizing. It taught me something important: real submission isn’t instant it’s earned, built, and felt in the nervous system, not ***d into existence.

From what I’ve seen, surrender doesn’t happen until the conscious and subconscious both relax their guard. Until trust, consistency, and psychological safety exist, nobody fully lets go no matter how much they want to. We cannot control our subconscious mind. We can reprogram it overtime so a lot of it is on repetition. Practice makes perfect after it’s been done with different partners that may be easier to achieve because you’re partially there, but you still have to get through the conscience mind with a new person building that connection.

If my take is off, I’m open to correction. But from my lens, Dominance isn’t about control it’s about presence, intuition, and calibrating to the person you’re leading. Some dynamics are more authoritarian, some are more primal, some lean into seduction psychologically I’ve always led with a mix of thoughtful leading, aftercare, and unspoken structure. If that aligns with what defines a true Dom, then maybe the title fits more than I realized. I think you know if you’ve reached a point of true letting go or submission if that’s a question you’re probably not there because I think it’s known loud and clear. In my situation I just thought I got way better in bed. But in reality, I realize that we hit that point where there was full submission. I don’t know maybe it changed everything for me. I guess I’ll find out. I’ve been single for a couple years now. I haven’t had a lot of connections. So maybe this will be a lot easier to achieve now. Maybe I did get better in bed.😂

[St****]

Agreed

[Wi****]

Although im a switch i would loooovvvee to completely submit/serve a dom.. im trying to b open 2 anything but unfortunately there is a few things I can not *** myself 2 b ok with..

[Wi****]

@2grown2gamez "Obedience is doing something bc im told whether I like it or not" is a 🔥🔥 statement

[ne****]

I don’t know how my master can tell but there has been a change in me for sure. I am truly living my submission. I can tell because it gives me peace to serve and please. It gives me peace to receive my punishment when I have not put his wants and needs above mine or followed the rules, even when I may have had a reason. Meaning, I could have spoken to him about my *** or *** and chose not to, instead acting out. In time, we will discuss and my punishment will come. At that time my anxiety quells and peace comes over me.