The Mystery of the First Message

[Fa****]

5 hours ago, CopperKnob said:

Ya know, as women, if we wanted a child there are numerous options available to us that don't revolve around a penis. Surrogacy, fostering, adoption, freezing our eggs. There isn't a sudden 'rush' to capture a man (despite my post titled "how to trap a Dom") simply because our eggs are running out 😂

You saved me the hassle. Thank you

[lo****]

3 hours ago, FatefulDestiny said:

How bizarre you should say this. I was just getting irate about this re someone telling me to wear a bra the other day 🤣

All my bras were tossed/burned when quarantine started. *** devices! And not the fun kind!

[CopperKnob]

6 hours ago, FatefulDestiny said:

Love ya

💜

[ge****]

6 hours ago, FatefulDestiny said:

I LOVE interacting with you 😘😘😘

That said I strongly believe that (physical) attractiveness is a) highly subjective and b) subject to factors other than physical appearance (and I know YOU know all this)

Oh you know I know and in fact make reference to those exact points elsewhere - however for all of us the initial attraction is purely physical, now that may change or develop (in either direction) as you get to know the person but the initial spark of interest is based on looks.
.
And that's something I struggle with in this whole swipe right/left world.
.
It doesn't mean to say however that I agree with Sigbro/Kruntz as I have faith in getting beyond that initial stage in the way I approach sites like this.

[Fa****]

4 hours ago, locketheart said:

All my bras were tossed/burned when quarantine started. *** devices! And not the fun kind!

Lucky you. My boobs are too saggy for that every day/occasion

[Ch****]

16 hours ago, Kruntz said:

Why do you bother to engage? You do it to accomplish a specific goal, sex, relationships, kink etc. If you're not getting a result you want you can suggest social change but you also analyze where the failure point is and evaluate if it can be solved or not within your abilities. The first step to solving is analyzing where you fail.

My position is the overwhelming point of failure for most men is initial attraction on the part of the woman and it has almost nothing to do with what the man wrote. Men not getting responses isn't because of their "shitty personality" when the overwhelming majority of time women don't give the man a opportunity to show what personality he has. 

The interaction is almost wholly dependent upon the brief minute the woman looks at the guys picture and decides if she likes it or not.

 

Completely agree.. That is where my focus was going..
Woman often don’t see “this side of the moon” leaving this all for ourself without realizing how many points of rejection man face daily.

Easy to say, go to the gym, improve your attitude, change your job, even make more ***..
Easy to say from the prospective of whom barely deal with rejection issue..

[Ch****]

13 hours ago, locketheart said:

The incel vibes, OMG!

This kind of guy it is useless to try and even explain that women have minds of their own, like genuine people, and hate this whole attitude he's firing off. Which, let me tell you, there are so many places(for women) who talk about how much we will run FAR away from guys spouting such things.

You want to know what women think is VERY unattractive? Look at your posts.

Locket heart thats the thing..
Kruntz just exposed his preferences, and to do so he’s exposed to messages such as yours..

You say that woman have mind their own but then you say that woman would run away from a guy spouting such things?
It’s kinda confusing though..

The guy just express his preferences, something that gives you an OFF vibes, maybe the point is that you are not very used to a man doing so….

So aren’t we allowed to have preferences?
Or just woman is entitled to be the selective gender?

[ge****]

58 minutes ago, Charlie218 said:

Locket heart thats the thing..
Kruntz just exposed his preferences, and to do so he’s exposed to messages such as yours..

You say that woman have mind their own but then you say that woman would run away from a guy spouting such things?
It’s kinda confusing though..

The guy just express his preferences, something that gives you an OFF vibes, maybe the point is that you are not very used to a man doing so….

So aren’t we allowed to have preferences?
Or just woman is entitled to be the selective gender?

That's the thing though, he didn't express preferences, just a whole heap of "woe is me" about how difficult it is for men on sites like this and how if you're not in the top 10% or whatever when it comes to looks you don't stand a chance - which is mostly rubbish and has also become rather tiresome.
.
Of course men are entitled to preferences and to be selective, just as women are - but whereas most women realise that's a two way thing driven by mutual attraction, compatibility etc - many men on sites like this seem to believe they are owed something just for signing up, and then seek to blame anything but themselves when that proves not to be the case.

[ge****]

1 hour ago, Charlie218 said:

Completely agree.. That is where my focus was going..
Woman often don’t see “this side of the moon” leaving this all for ourself without realizing how many points of rejection man face daily.

Easy to say, go to the gym, improve your attitude, change your job, even make more ***..
Easy to say from the prospective of whom barely deal with rejection issue..

Do you know how many rejections I get daily? A big fat zero, not a single one - and why is that? Because I don't set myself up for rejection and accept that I am not for everyone, in fact I'm not for 99% of people, but the 1% who I am for are worth waiting for.
.
Unfortunately many men view sites like this as some kind of instant and easy access scheme to cater to *their* needs and seem to expect some level of "success" just for signing up - well it doesn't work like that and to think otherwise is setting yourself up for rejection.
.
If you're getting ignored or rejected - rather than looking at others for the reasons why, perhaps look closer to home and see what adjustments can be made to address that and it doesn't necessarily have to involve trips to the gym or increased finances - simply changing your attitude, approach and expectations is usually all that's needed.

[Kruntz]

2 hours ago, Charlie218 said:

Completely agree.. That is where my focus was going..
Woman often don’t see “this side of the moon” leaving this all for ourself without realizing how many points of rejection man face daily.

Easy to say, go to the gym, improve your attitude, change your job, even make more ***..
Easy to say from the prospective of whom barely deal with rejection issue..

 

The funny thing is the gaslighting that many women engage in when this is talked about. Ultimately to them if you don't get a result there is something wrong with what you did, etc. There is an inherit moral judgment they make.

 

I obviously don't have access to this data but I bet the site owners can see the percentage of men who get responded to and it's going to be a small fraction consistenting of people who roughly look the same.

[ey****]

1 hour ago, Charlie218 said:

So aren’t we allowed to have preferences?
Or just woman is entitled to be the selective gender?

this wasn't the point being made, but

absolutely - men should have preferences and men should be more selective!   it would improve results 10 fold!

 

[ey****]

12 minutes ago, Kruntz said:

I bet the site owners can see the percentage of men who get responded to and it's going to be a small fraction consistenting of people who roughly look the same.

don't need to be a site owner

You have sent 14 messages and received 6 replies.
Another guy on this thread has sent 4700 and received 5500

Another sent 700 and received 500

I sent 2000 and received 4000.
 

The data is there.

[ge****]

17 minutes ago, Kruntz said:

The funny thing is the gaslighting that many women engage in when this is talked about. Ultimately to them if you don't get a result there is something wrong with what you did, etc. There is an inherit moral judgment they make.

 

I obviously don't have access to this data but I bet the site owners can see the percentage of men who get responded to and it's going to be a small fraction consistenting of people who roughly look the same.

Gaslighting? Or simply commenting based on the benefit (sic) of their experiences when receiving the kind of messages they so often receive, and providing reasons they may not respond to any messages other than those they choose to?
.
I suspect your perception of the data may be flawed should you ever be able to get access to it - both eyem and myself have said several times now we're no oil ***tings and yet get plenty of interaction - and several women have said they've had messages from "good looking" guys they've not responded to for one reason or another.
.
It keeps coming back to those three things, attitude, expectations and approach - get them wrong and the "woe is me" is guaranteed to continue - get them right and it won't guarantee a thing, but you'll be more likely to accept the situation and have a lot better experience of sites like this.

[do****]

This is like a car accident. I just cannot look away. I'm going to address a lot of comments here apologies for not referring by name. Empathy goes a long way, generalizations leave everyone dumb, deaf, and blind. I get rejected on purposes sometimes. Why? To learn and self assess me. What are they rejecting? Is it something about me I like or don't like? Were they even worthy of me? These are some questions I ask. Not put labels and generalizations on people. You think women do not get rejected? I reject women all the time. You think women do not get criticism? You over/under weight, butt too small/big, the titties are lopsided, you have a kangaroo pouch, etc., etc. Living up to all this dumb ass body image BS. Surgery for women is one of the highest grossing fields. Why? Because of women being rejected or even thinking they would be. This crap must stop. Be a human being for once. Try that on for a while. No judgement, no labels, no expectations, and learn and converse with another human being. Reprogram what you have been taught, heard, or seen, and open your mind just a little. Things become a little bit clearer about what is or is not important in life. This stuff goes on because we continue to allow it to go on. We are the grease to the fire with just thoughts. Just my opinion. But who am I but a human being. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[Kruntz]

17 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

don't need to be a site owner

You have sent 14 messages and received 6 replies.
Another guy on this thread has sent 4700 and received 5500

Another sent 700 and received 500

I sent 2000 and received 4000.
 

The data is there.

So 1. It doesn't give unique interactions, 2. It's not an aggregate summation of data. 

I bet if you look at the percentage of men women consistently reply to it will be similar to tinder, perhaps an even smaller percentage since I actually get women on Tinder who interact.

 

[Ar****]

3 hours ago, Kruntz said:

The funny thing is the gaslighting that many women engage in when this is talked about. Ultimately to them if you don't get a result there is something wrong with what you did, etc. There is an inherit moral judgment they make.

There might be a few women who do this. There are definitely women here who don't and will tell you time and again just because a guy didn't get a result it didn't mean he did something "wrong" - it's been done to death in the forums already.

I am very curious about something though. You're adamant that this environment is loaded, set up so that only a small percentage of men can get anywhere on it due to the advantages you perceive them as having.

I'm in my forties. My hair has plenty of grey and silver in it, and is thinning too. I've never been athletic, and have an ever-expanding Dad-belly. I'm disabled. I don't work. I don't have a flash car - I don't know how to drive. I'm a perpetually exhausted single parent who doesn't even have a great deal of free time. I consider myself to have had quite reasonable "success" (cringe) since joining this site, but by your standards I really don't have a chance, not without pretending to be somebody I'm not. Yet while I've sent around 8000 messages since joining, somehow I've managed to receive even more.

Who do you think people like me are talking to/getting involved with if the odds are so stacked against us?

[Fa****]

4 hours ago, doubletrouble129 said:

This is like a car accident. I just cannot look away. I'm going to address a lot of comments here apologies for not referring by name. Empathy goes a long way, generalizations leave everyone dumb, deaf, and blind. I get rejected on purposes sometimes. Why? To learn and self assess me. What are they rejecting? Is it something about me I like or don't like? Were they even worthy of me? These are some questions I ask. Not put labels and generalizations on people. You think women do not get rejected? I reject women all the time. You think women do not get criticism? You over/under weight, butt too small/big, the titties are lopsided, you have a kangaroo pouch, etc., etc. Living up to all this dumb ass body image BS. Surgery for women is one of the highest grossing fields. Why? Because of women being rejected or even thinking they would be. This crap must stop. Be a human being for once. Try that on for a while. No judgement, no labels, no expectations, and learn and converse with another human being. Reprogram what you have been taught, heard, or seen, and open your mind just a little. Things become a little bit clearer about what is or is not important in life. This stuff goes on because we continue to allow it to go on. We are the grease to the fire with just thoughts. Just my opinion. But who am I but a human being. 🤷🏾‍♂️

Wow. I love this. 
 

I believe you mean this but the cynic in me still wants to question it as it seems too good to be true. Does that make sense? And I’m really not trying to be offensive x

[do****]

2 minutes ago, FatefulDestiny said:

Wow. I love this. 
 

I believe you mean this but the cynic in me still wants to question it as it seems too good to be true. Does that make sense? And I’m really not trying to be offensive x

That's all from the ❤️

[Fa****]

4 hours ago, Kruntz said:

So 1. It doesn't give unique interactions, 2. It's not an aggregate summation of data. 

I bet if you look at the percentage of men women consistently reply to it will be similar to tinder, perhaps an even smaller percentage since I actually get women on Tinder who interact.

 

I want to shout this but I’m not quite that rude. 

If YOU have an issue with the way YOU look then that is YOUR issue and yours alone to deal with. 

I can guarantee that I (and many other women) do NOT prioritise looks. That said I firmly believe that in any relationship platonic/romantic/dynamic etc etc there has to be an element of attraction but does that mean people you or I find unattractive don’t have relationships with others? - of course not. That would be ridiculous. 

I even state on my profile that you need to engage my mind for me to have the remotest chance of being interested. 

A simple hi from a guy I’ve never interacted with previously is 99.9% certain to get zero reply from me - EVEN if he is the most classically handsome man or the planet or physically EXACTLY my type. 

And although people assume that as a woman on this site I get lots of messages I can categorically say I don’t (maybe I’m not good looking enough). That does not however mean I reply to everyone who messages me. It also doesn’t mean I go on a woe is me spree of assuming I’m not good looking enough (which appears to be what you’re implying). Further, I do actually send initial messages to people. And guess what - many times I don’t get a reply. Again though I don’t assume this is due to the way I look merely that they’re not interested and my message didn’t appeal to them. And that is ok. Everyone is entitled to do that, but they aren’t entitled to whine about not getting responses and assume it is only persons who conform to societal standards of attraction that get the (most) responses. It simply isn’t true.

( And those who know me can be very proud of me for how far I’ve come in terms of my feelings towards the way I look - this is exhibit A)

[Fa****]

2 hours ago, Aranhis said:

There might be a few women who do this. There are definitely women here who don't and will tell you time and again just because a guy didn't get a result it didn't mean he did something "wrong" - it's been done to death in the forums already.

I am very curious about something though. You're adamant that this environment is loaded, set up so that only a small percentage of men can get anywhere on it due to the advantages you perceive them as having.

I'm in my forties. My hair has plenty of grey and silver in it, and is thinning too. I've never been athletic, and have an ever-expanding Dad-belly. I'm disabled. I don't work. I don't have a flash car - I don't know how to drive. I'm a perpetually exhausted single parent who doesn't even have a great deal of free time. I consider myself to have had quite reasonable "success" (cringe) since joining this site, but by your standards I really don't have a chance, not without pretending to be somebody I'm not. Yet while I've sent around 8000 messages since joining, somehow I've managed to receive even more.

Who do you think people like me are talking to/getting involved with if the odds are so stacked against us?

Do not dare lower yourself to this (and you know what I mean 😜). You are beautiful because you’re you. Love you hunni xxx

[do****]

Fuck your nose job, fake breasts and BBL. Intelligence is sexy 😍

[YorkshireBiker]

This reminds me very much of trying to convince a flat earther that the earth is indeed, a ball. 

It has very similar patterns of ‘it’s all lies’ and ‘everything is against me’. Ask for actual evidence to back up their theory and it’s all wishy washy, present evidence to the contrary and it’s either waved off or deemed fake.

Most, in fact nearly every person in this chat, is telling you the incel mindset is wrong. But you won’t listen because you’ve been convinced that this is a fact, despite the fact there are millions of men who aren’t traditionally attractive having happy relationships. I’m one of them for fuck sake! Now if you want to live your life miserable and blaming women for all your problems then feel free, but I *** this mindset is contagious. 

[do****]

6 minutes ago, YorkshireBiker said:

This reminds me very much of trying to convince a flat earther that the earth is indeed, a ball. 

It has very similar patterns of ‘it’s all lies’ and ‘everything is against me’. Ask for actual evidence to back up their theory and it’s all wishy washy, present evidence to the contrary and it’s either waved off or deemed fake.

Most, in fact nearly every person in this chat, is telling you the incel mindset is wrong. But you won’t listen because you’ve been convinced that this is a fact, despite the fact there are millions of men who aren’t traditionally attractive having happy relationships. I’m one of them for fuck sake! Now if you want to live your life miserable and blaming women for all your problems then feel free, but I *** this mindset is contagious. 

🤣😂🤣. Ditto. I'm a whole wildebeest in these streets compared to the men I see and Im not complaining at all. I can beat them off with a stick some days. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[CopperKnob]

1 minute ago, doubletrouble129 said:

🤣😂🤣. Ditto. I'm a whole wildebeest in these streets compared to the men I see and Im not complaining at all. I can beat them off with a stick some days. 🤷🏾‍♂️

Well, we don't need to brag 😂😂

[ey****]

I think the thing is - and I've said this before

people like comfort. and that's understandable.   so if they're rejected or having poor results on a dating site then the truth is usually one of

a) actually, finding matches is difficult

b) there's something about their approach, profile, communication, etc. which is letting them down and needs improvement

I say one of. The truth is actually elements of both, since everyone could always improve.

But doing this does kinda accept flaws so it's easier to find comfort in blaming others.  Moreso, the system - the odds are stacked.    Therefore it's not their fault.

And there's some folk I've felt sorry for.  There was a guy on here and I looked up his location and it was a fairly rural town and I think the closest munch I found for him was a 2 hour drive. So online dating he was struggling to find people in his town and even finding out what a local kink community was like was a 4 hour round trip.  And there's been folk with disabilities which have caused them prejudice and issues (or being fetishised)  and, it's true, dating is not a level playing field.

But if you blame everyone else for your struggles, you're not striving to improve nor are you embracing patience. Most of us here do not have massive disadvantages

I say this as someone who has fallen into a similar trap before.   So. You know. Some people find me attractive. I don't see it myself. But they have their metrics and can see positives.  I'm, umm, I'm sure some people aren't actually attracted to me but might enjoy, say, playing with me.  Or spending time with me.  Some things I can understand.  If we ever had a big forum meet, there's some people I'm sure would want to chat with me (likewise!) some who'd buy me a drink and some who'd tell me to fuck off.  I can understand all of those mind sets.

And a bit, kinda... if there was such a meet, would people actively want to sit with you?  And, well, it not being a corner of bitter guys?

and if not, what can we do?

and, if so, then what it is about us that people would want to spend time with us is also what we bring and offer to relationships.