The Mystery of the First Message

[ey****]

8 minutes ago, YorkshireBiker said:

I’ve not seen any experiments as such but I have seen interviews with self proclaimed high level women (whatever that means) and they have outright stated the difference between a creep and not a creep is the attractiveness of the man in question. 

There is some truth to it but I don’t know how much and how many interviews there are out there that say different. 

there are some good articles on it and one of the things to kinda focus on is what, specifically, makes something creepy.

the answer to that is in behaviour that makes the other person uncomfortable 

and of course every one has their own lines.  

but in terms of lines this is also in not how attractive a person may be generally considered, but in how attracted the recipient is.   while also any existing friendship or rapport.    the other day on another site I left some comments on a friends picture which were fine because we are friends.  If we were strangers, this would be creepy because the comfort and familiarity isn't there.  

how attractive or friendly you find someone can also change at a moments notice, especially if something is said or done to shift perspective.   I've just been reading some screenshots a friend posted and, I'm surprised she put up with this guys bullshit so long, but he was feigning being caring and supportive with a view to get a date - so while she initially found him friendly and supportive, this changed sharply when intentions were known 

So in the example above - no someone attractive can not get away with unsolicited vulgar messages simply because the majority of recipients will not be comfortable with them no matter how attractive they found the person - obviously exceptions apply, but these are usually people who give express instructions for certain types of messages to be welcomed.

Also, in a lot of cases the reverse is true

I am aware of a young lady who freaked the fuck out of one of her neighbours because she fancied him to the point he was being creeped out by it.  Because, well, women can be creepy also.  And, if you've ever been on the receiving end as a guy it's still a head fuck.  Partially a bit because like you'd be supposed to be flattered a woman has interest in you and is making moves, but, for whatever reason - you don't find her attractive, don't want a relationship *whatever* 

--

But honestly, the amount of women I've met over the years who've been on the receiving end of someone conventionally attractive, possibly even who they found attractive at some point, who are creeped out and will say "he thinks he can get away with anything cos he thinks he's good looking, cos he goes to the gym, cos he's got ***, whatever" it does shatter a lot of the myths overall.

 

[YorkshireBiker]

I have no real world experience on this, I’m in my 40s with a friend group of, to my knowledge, vanilla couples and I’ve been with my partner since we were ***agers

I suppose I have opinions and knowledge based on some facts, but I’m not going to pretend I have expert or even first hand knowledge on this (or anything else for that matter)

I’m finally opening up and gaining more experiences and having conversations like this, that are somewhat different to my norm, so I’ll join in where I can.

[4R****]

3 minutes ago, YorkshireBiker said:

I have no real world experience on this, I’m in my 40s with a friend group of, to my knowledge, vanilla couples and I’ve been with my partner since we were ***agers

I suppose I have opinions and knowledge based on some facts, but I’m not going to pretend I have expert or even first hand knowledge on this (or anything else for that matter)

I’m finally opening up and gaining more experiences and having conversations like this, that are somewhat different to my norm, so I’ll join in where I can.

You know what, we all started without any knowledge or experience at one time or another. Welcome to the dark side 😉

[ge****]

30 minutes ago, YorkshireBiker said:

I have no real world experience on this, I’m in my 40s with a friend group of, to my knowledge, vanilla couples and I’ve been with my partner since we were ***agers

I suppose I have opinions and knowledge based on some facts, but I’m not going to pretend I have expert or even first hand knowledge on this (or anything else for that matter)

I’m finally opening up and gaining more experiences and having conversations like this, that are somewhat different to my norm, so I’ll join in where I can.

Echo what 4RCH said - from the posts of yours I've seen your "joining in where you can" is most welcome

[ey****]

36 minutes ago, YorkshireBiker said:

I’m finally opening up and gaining more experiences and having conversations like this, that are somewhat different to my norm, so I’ll join in where I can.

please do  it is appreciated. 

[Ch****]

4 hours ago, CopperKnob said:

It's the patriarchy I tell you!! 😂

Interesting how you jumped to this conclusion😂
Could you elaborate it?

[lo****]

1 hour ago, Kruntz said:

I assumed things can change but looking at the profiles it's the same people, same issues. To not acknowledge the nature of this environment is to give men a false sense of inadequacy and I'm not the only one saying this. If you want to get matches you're better off exercising, making *** and getting plastic surgery than anything else. 

Ahh... red pill talking points again.

They're like cockroaches I tell you.

[YorkshireBiker]

9 minutes ago, locketheart said:

Ahh... red pill talking points again.

They're like cockroaches I tell you.

I would actually be inclined to agree with the exercise, and to some extent making ***.
 

These are 2 markers that show you can at least take care of yourself in some way. Attractive or unattractive, you have something to offer to a potential partner and if you can’t do that for yourself, you certainly won’t be able to do that for some one else.  And if we’re talking serious relationship, potentially kids.
 

1/2 the population have dicks, (excuse the lack of inclusiveness, I’m making a point) and your not going to get it wet by telling women they are the problem. 
 

I’m consider myself far from good looking but my stunning wife would disagree, I didn’t approach her with a mindset of I’m too ugly and she’ll just be nasty to me. I picked her up off the floor drunk and we just talked. I didn’t wave my dick at her, I didn’t tell her I’m ugly for some sympathy, I didn’t try to have sex with her, we just a talked. 

Granted it’s not the same online but surely the principle is similar.  

[Kruntz]

14 minutes ago, YorkshireBiker said:

Granted it’s not the same online but surely the principle is similar.  

It's not, if you don't reach a certain attractiveness threshold you will be immediately ignored and the threshold is ever higher. For shits and giggles make two fake dating accounts with photos of an average looking vs a guy at top of the attractiveness hierarchy and observe your experience.

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Kruntz

[ey****]

in society in general there are around as many straight (or bi/pan) men as straight (or bi/pan) women.  

but nothing is a straightforward pairing exercise

What people, in general, find attractive varies greatly - but there is still some burden of showing your worth.  Which we all have.  

If you stop short at a kind of "I am not wealthy or physically attractive, therefore I don't have a chance" then you're focusing on what you don't have then you do. Besides, would you really be interested in someone so shallow?

 

 

[CopperKnob]

54 minutes ago, Charlie218 said:

Interesting how you jumped to this conclusion😂
Could you elaborate it?

It was sarcasm, in response to Fatefuls comment that my father was to blame for giving me a particular chromosome, the undertone being, it's mens "fault" AKA the patriarchy.
Jokes/sarcasm aren't that funny/humourous when you have to explain them and maybe, it was a form of humour which Fateful and I have shared previously during our interactions which others outside of that wouldn't have necessarily picked up on if they hadn't have been privvy to them/seen previous comments on carious forum posts

[FETMOD-KF]

Just as a small note. 

Duel profiles and 'experiment' profiles are against the rules of this site.  If you are caught using two accounts, for whatever reason, you risk losing them both (or, at least the 'experiment' profile) 

It also is really unethical to pose as somebody you are not in order to garner 'results' which ultimately leads the other person on and ghosts them.  

[CopperKnob]

4 hours ago, Kruntz said:

Nothing written matters if you're not deemed attractive enough to the person you're trying to interact with.

I also dispute the idea you can't send vulgar messages, you 100% can - if you fall into the top category of attractivness. If you want to get more replies you're better off spending your *** on Tren than 'improving your personality". I'm not saying this applies to every single person but it applies to the significant majority.

You know, I've had vile messages from people who are considered to be attractive physically and who are physically my 'type'. Those messages are ignored/profiles blocked.
So yes, those type of messages 'can' be send but I wouldn't assume that people are accepting of them based on physical attributes.

[Kruntz]

5 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

in society in general there are around as many straight (or bi/pan) men as straight (or bi/pan) women.  

but nothing is a straightforward pairing exercise

What people, in general, find attractive varies greatly - but there is still some burden of showing your worth.  Which we all have.  

If you stop short at a kind of "I am not wealthy or physically attractive, therefore I don't have a chance" then you're focusing on what you don't have then you do. Besides, would you really be interested in someone so shallow?

 

 

I don't think what most people are attracted to varies that much. 

My position is that most men who don't get good results don't actually do anything wrong, they just aren't deemed attractive enough. I'm not even talking about social solutions but that on an individual level your only options are to do the three things I listed. 

Personally I'm only interested in relatively fit women 20-35 without kids. This is by far the most in-demand group and I experience the most aggressive competition. I fall into this category myself so it's not unreasonable but these girls can get the top(for a night at least).

 

[CopperKnob]

2 hours ago, Kruntz said:

I assumed things can change but looking at the profiles it's the same people, same issues. To not acknowledge the nature of this environment is to give men a false sense of inadequacy and I'm not the only one saying this. If you want to get matches you're better off exercising, making *** and getting plastic surgery than anything else. 

And some people make a public statement saying that this site isn't for them etc etc and then hey presto return with a new profile a few months later but still say the same things, that this site isn't for them
So, on the surface it appears that they've identified what isn't working for them and yet given time, haven't found the solution. They simply keep citing the same problematic (not peer reviewed 'research' placing the 'blame' at the doors of others.

[do****]

9 minutes ago, FETMOD-KF said:

Just as a small note. 

Duel profiles and 'experiment' profiles are against the rules of this site.  If you are caught using two accounts, for whatever reason, you risk losing them both (or, at least the 'experiment' profile) 

It also is really unethical to pose as somebody you are not in order to garner 'results' which ultimately leads the other person on and ghosts them.  

Thank you. That part ☝️. I was wondering and just observing but I was questioning the ethicalness of it. I do not consent to no one experimenting on me. I was with it for a second when I was under the assumption that this was some new kink. But now I know for sure it's not cool and knowing is half the battle. G. I. Joe

[do****]

26 minutes ago, Kruntz said:

It's not, if you don't reach a certain attractiveness threshold you will be immediately ignored and the threshold is ever higher. For shits and giggles make two fake dating accounts with photos of an average looking vs a guy at top of the attractiveness hierarchy and observe your experience.

 

Some of y'all need to find some sex real fast. Too much time on your hands, fake profiles and experiments. You want to be a sociologist go to college and learn about ethics and boundaries. This will detest me from this site because now I cannot trust no one. It takes an asshole to fuck up a "safe space". Fucking assholes

[CopperKnob]

2 hours ago, Kruntz said:

I assumed things can change but looking at the profiles it's the same people, same issues. To not acknowledge the nature of this environment is to give men a false sense of inadequacy and I'm not the only one saying this. If you want to get matches you're better off exercising, making *** and getting plastic surgery than anything else. 

The thing is, and this will likely come across as somewhat harsh but, you assumed that things with the app and it's members would have changed in the few (?) months that you've been away but have you changed?
You say that your understanding is that women find partners based on attraction and much of that, from your perception, is based around physical attributes and ***. So, my question is, did you start working out, eating more protein, or get a job with a better income to raise your 'attractiveness' towards others or, are you the same person you were when you last had a Fet profile? Because, given your comments here, it appears that your mindset hasn't changed.

[YorkshireBiker]

9 minutes ago, Kruntz said:

I don't think what most people are attracted to varies that much. 

My position is that most men who don't get good results don't actually do anything wrong, they just aren't deemed attractive enough. I'm not even talking about social solutions but that on an individual level your only options are to do the three things I listed. 

Personally I'm only interested in relatively fit women 20-35 without kids. This is by far the most in-demand group and I experience the most aggressive competition. I fall into this category myself so it's not unreasonable but these girls can get the top(for a night at least).

 

I’m generalising again but 20 and 35 are drastically different, most 20 year olds are probably child free, I doubt that still applies by 30-35, and what a 20 years old is looking for ,is again probably very different to someone in their 30’s. How can someone expect to offer something that will appeal to both ends of this spectrum.
 

How high are your expectations?

[Kruntz]

Just now, CopperKnob said:

The thing is, and this will likely come across as somewhat harsh but, you assumed that things with the app and it's members would have changed in the few (?) months that you've been away but have you changed?
You say that your understanding is that women find partners based on attraction and much of that, from your perception, is based around physical attributes and ***. So, my question is, did you start working out, eating more protein, or get a job with a better income to raise your 'attractiveness' towards others or, are you the same person you were when you last had a Fet profile? Because, given your comments here, it appears that your mindset hasn't changed.

Honestly I assumed there might be some different people or the dating section would have been improved but everything is the same. 

On a personal level though yeah, I'm pretty happy with my life progress. 

[Ch****]

Yesterday at 10:17 AM, gemini_man said:

The thing is you say that men feel ignored and in solitude but ultimately that comes down to them having their expectations correctly set in the first place - if they join sites like this and "expect" to get responses then they're going to be disappointed.
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Equally you say at least women feel desired because of the volume of messages they get, but I'd argue they actually feel the opposite of that because it must feel like they're not actually desired for them the person but as a kink/sex dispenser and it doesn't matter who they are - which is actually pretty undesirable.
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Yes, that awkward first message can be a minefield and personally I think is one of the worst and most frustrating ways to approach sites like this one, which is why I almost never send messages to people I've had no interaction with previously.
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The mistake many men make is to think that the *only* way to approach sites like this is to send blind messages to random profiles - when actually there are many other ways - using the forums is a great one, as it gives something to spark conversation from, likewise the chat rooms.
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Then it comes back to the thing I said further up the thread about accepting you won't be attractive to, or attracted by, everyone and therefore can't expect a response from all, or even a small percentage of people you contact if you do so blindly.
.
The way to making sites like this work for you comes down to five things - expectations, attitude, approach, profile and pics - get them right and it won't guarantee a thing but it'll make the experience a lot better and you'll accept that not getting a response isn't necessarily a bad thing or a slur on you.

In response to your message:

I agree with the expectation things on sites like this”, but if this site exists is also and mainly to interact with people, so why would I or anyone give up on interacting on an app which purpose is to ultimately do that?
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I’d personally rather being a dispenser then ignored, but off course it comes with personal taste, plus I was talking more about a range of possibilities that differs from man to woman.
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Sorry I didn’t really get this one.
A dating or kinky app like this is made” theoretically to meet people” how can you have interaction with people previously if you only met them on the app? I don’t get it..
If you meet a kink a outside the app you wouldn’t exchange the app profile to interact, you’ll exchange number or Telegram, right?
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Agree, blind message are no sense, and dick pics make me sick.
For example forum for me wouldn’t work to meet people live, that ultimately is my goal. Simply cause where I live we don’t haveda big amount of people in the app.
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On the last point I agree with you, but this come to the point that I was mentioning before.
Even having the best strategy, you mentioned expectation, attitude, approach, profile and pics, takes lot of research and planning, even though there are no answer guaranteed at all.

So I was underlining that there are unquestionable, undeniable differences between man and woman, especially in apps like this, that we also take lot of shit on here, different shit from what woman takes perhaps.
I know these topics are hard to be heard and it’s a delicate field to touch, but I’m ready even if I’ll be misunderstood or hated..

Doesn’t mean I’m a chauvinist or patriarch or shit like this, I even have a girlfriend that is an active feminists and she is on this app too btw.

I try to report as best as I can things that happens and are not spoken enough from my point of view.

Man issues deserve the same visibility and respect of woman issues..

[CopperKnob]

9 minutes ago, doubletrouble129 said:

Some of y'all need to find some sex real fast. Too much time on your hands, fake profiles and experiments. You want to be a sociologist go to college and learn about ethics and boundaries. This will detest me from this site because now I cannot trust no one. It takes an asshole to fuck up a "safe space". Fucking assholes

Nope, that's not it.
Kruntz has a tendency to voice their views on the dating woes of men which are sometimes quite out there regardless as to whether they track or not.
This is despite numerous people telling them that they're barking up the wrong tree.
The making of a fake profile to "prove a point" is one which crops up from time to time with this individual and a couple of others.
Fet are relatively quick to act on reports from members re potentially dodgy profiles and will either block them til the user can verify themselves or will ban them
As long as you have your wits about you and trust your gut instinct this is, in the main, a safe place

[Ch****]

27 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

It was sarcasm, in response to Fatefuls comment that my father was to blame for giving me a particular chromosome, the undertone being, it's mens "fault" AKA the patriarchy.
Jokes/sarcasm aren't that funny/humourous when you have to explain them and maybe, it was a form of humour which Fateful and I have shared previously during our interactions which others outside of that wouldn't have necessarily picked up on if they hadn't have been privvy to them/seen previous comments on carious forum posts

Haha ok got it.. 😂

[do****]

5 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

Nope, that's not it.
Kruntz has a tendency to voice their views on the dating woes of men which are sometimes quite out there regardless as to whether they track or not.
This is despite numerous people telling them that they're barking up the wrong tree.
The making of a fake profile to "prove a point" is one which crops up from time to time with this individual and a couple of others.
Fet are relatively quick to act on reports from members re potentially dodgy profiles and will either block them til the user can verify themselves or will ban them
As long as you have your wits about you and trust your gut instinct this is, in the main, a safe place

Thank you 💜

[ge****]

41 minutes ago, Kruntz said:

It's not, if you don't reach a certain attractiveness threshold you will be immediately ignored and the threshold is ever higher. For shits and giggles make two fake dating accounts with photos of an average looking vs a guy at top of the attractiveness hierarchy and observe your experience.

 

Sorry but that's utter balderdash - firstly there is no "attractiveness threshold" because attraction is entirely subjective and down to an individual.
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Secondly if what you say is true there would be a heck of a lot of single men about.
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Thirdly I'm an almost 58 year old man who is way over the hill, and am very much average to below average in most respects (apart from my bum which though I say so myself is incredibly attractive) - yet since joining sites like this in my early 50s, far from being ignored, I've interacted with many women, and not all of them just to chat to.
.
It comes down to being respectful and considerate, finding an approach to sites like these that works for you the individual, having the right attitude and expectations and being genuinely you - and nothing to do with chiselled looks, gym fit bodies, big bank balance and a sports car in the slightest.
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Sure there are some (very shallow in my opinion) women who will look for those latter things, but to make a generalisation of it is insulting to the many genuinely nice women who don't look for that.
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As men it's within our own hands to make sites like this work for us - sadly many don't see that and look for reasons to blame for their lack of success.
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P.S. anyone else getting a funny sense of deja vu? 🤔😂