The Mystery of the First Message

[Kruntz]

4 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I think the thing is - and I've said this before

people like comfort. and that's understandable.   so if they're rejected or having poor results on a dating site then the truth is usually one of

a) actually, finding matches is difficult

b) there's something about their approach, profile, communication, etc. which is letting them down and needs improvement

I say one of. The truth is actually elements of both, since everyone could always improve.

But doing this does kinda accept flaws so it's easier to find comfort in blaming others.  Moreso, the system - the odds are stacked.    Therefore it's not their fault.

And there's some folk I've felt sorry for.  There was a guy on here and I looked up his location and it was a fairly rural town and I think the closest munch I found for him was a 2 hour drive. So online dating he was struggling to find people in his town and even finding out what a local kink community was like was a 4 hour round trip.  And there's been folk with disabilities which have caused them prejudice and issues (or being fetishised)  and, it's true, dating is not a level playing field.

But if you blame everyone else for your struggles, you're not striving to improve nor are you embracing patience. Most of us here do not have massive disadvantages

I say this as someone who has fallen into a similar trap before.   So. You know. Some people find me attractive. I don't see it myself. But they have their metrics and can see positives.  I'm, umm, I'm sure some people aren't actually attracted to me but might enjoy, say, playing with me.  Or spending time with me.  Some things I can understand.  If we ever had a big forum meet, there's some people I'm sure would want to chat with me (likewise!) some who'd buy me a drink and some who'd tell me to fuck off.  I can understand all of those mind sets.

And a bit, kinda... if there was such a meet, would people actively want to sit with you?  And, well, it not being a corner of bitter guys?

and if not, what can we do?

and, if so, then what it is about us that people would want to spend time with us is also what we bring and offer to relationships.

None of that matters online. Women make a near instant decision on pass/fail on online platforms and your picture is what decides 95% of it.

Someone asked what could be changed? On these sites not much other than limit the total number a person can interact with at a time. But generally breakdown in exclusive LTR naturally results in this scenario. There's a reason the match rate on Tinder is so low for men and it's not because of personality.

My position is basically as a man, you can't be average and be successful(barring some extremely niche thing) on online platforms. Failing to succeed isn't a reflection of a drastic defect, you're just not attractive enough given the competition. 

[ge****]

15 minutes ago, Kruntz said:

None of that matters online. Women make a near instant decision on pass/fail on online platforms and your picture is what decides 95% of it.

Someone asked what could be changed? On these sites not much other than limit the total number a person can interact with at a time. But generally breakdown in exclusive LTR naturally results in this scenario. There's a reason the match rate on Tinder is so low for men and it's not because of personality.

My position is basically as a man, you can't be average and be successful(barring some extremely niche thing) on online platforms. Failing to succeed isn't a reflection of a drastic defect, you're just not attractive enough given the competition. 

But here's the thing, putting aside those men so desperate they'll message/like anyone, isn't that "near instant decision" you have such a problem with exactly what men do in this swipe right/left world? Look at the picture and decide whether to send a message?
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In fact I'd go one step further and suggest on a site like this most women would look at the picture and if they like what they see they'd read the profile, look at forum interactions etc and *then* decide whether to send a message or not, whereas for most men it would be look at the picture and reach for the message button.
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As for your "average" assertion, I've said several times now I consider myself average and yet am happy with my on-line experience and have had interactions both virtual and physical with numerous women. Eyem and others have said similar - are you saying we're all niche, or have we perhaps found what works for us?

[ey****]

2 hours ago, Kruntz said:

None of that matters online. Women make a near instant decision on pass/fail on online platforms and your picture is what decides 95% of it.

if you believe that it again asks questions

1) why bother online at all ?  

2) my points about communication and improving etc still stand, because if you think your photo lets you down : what can you do about it?   

like, I know everyone is not so fortunate, but up here they've been a couple of photographers who go to munches who've had a win/win on wanting to photograph as many different types of people (even cis het guys who think they're ugly ) and work together on striking / stand out photos 

So if you think your photo lets you down, if you don't know a photographer you can still book a shoot 

For most people, every single thing they think let's them down is something they can do something about

[lo****]

3 hours ago, Kruntz said:

None of that matters online. Women make a near instant decision on pass/fail on online platforms and your picture is what decides 95% of it.

Someone asked what could be changed? On these sites not much other than limit the total number a person can interact with at a time. But generally breakdown in exclusive LTR naturally results in this scenario. There's a reason the match rate on Tinder is so low for men and it's not because of personality.

My position is basically as a man, you can't be average and be successful(barring some extremely niche thing) on online platforms. Failing to succeed isn't a reflection of a drastic defect, you're just not attractive enough given the competition. 

I will tell you now. If I don't like how I am approached, even if I find the man insanely attractive physically, I won't respond.

Looks is outside, real attractiveness is inside.

(Yes, it's happened. I have had some men I thought physically hot message me in a way that immediately put me off. Ask the women posting here that do like male company. I bet many can say the same.)

(Edited for typo. Typo Queen here)

Edited May 18, 2023 by locketheart

[4R****]

3 hours ago, Kruntz said:

Women make a near instant decision on pass/fail on online platforms and your picture is what decides 95% of it.

You seem to make a lot of statements about what women do/don't do, think/don't think and you are even quoting statistics....... So, I wonder, seeing as you have so much knowledge on the subject, how do you know, where have you got your information from and where's the evidence to back it up?

[lo****]

12 hours ago, doubletrouble129 said:

Fuck your nose job, fake breasts and BBL. Intelligence is sexy 😍

My goodness yes it is! So are empathy and compassion.

[lo****]

14 minutes ago, 4RCH said:

You seem to make a lot of statements about what women do/don't do, think/don't think and you are even quoting statistics....... So, I wonder, seeing as you have so much knowledge on the subject, how do you know, where have you got your information from and where's the evidence to back it up?

*whispers* "Places like Tate youtubes/reddits, and other red pill places"

[4R****]

25 minutes ago, locketheart said:

*whispers* "Places like Tate youtubes/reddits, and other red pill places"

Ahhhh you mean 'it says so on the inter web so it must be true'?

[ey****]

I reckon though, if most people who were new-ish to a dating site messaged 100 women, they may well get around 5 replies back and so that would tally the numbers up

but, of course, it'd be easy to state these 95% of rejections was cos of your face and not because (a) contact was poor (b) any form of inadequate profile (c) they saw you doing the new-and-horny thing which is offputting (d) they know you'd messaged others (e) they're actually inactive (f) they're talking with other guys at a good stage and so don't wish to lead anyone on when it looks like one of these other chats may go somewhere (but obviously can't deactivate profile as it ends those chats) (g) etc.

 

[ge****]

4 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I reckon though, if most people who were new-ish to a dating site messaged 100 women, they may well get around 5 replies back and so that would tally the numbers up

but, of course, it'd be easy to state these 95% of rejections was cos of your face and not because (a) contact was poor (b) any form of inadequate profile (c) they saw you doing the new-and-horny thing which is offputting (d) they know you'd messaged others (e) they're actually inactive (f) they're talking with other guys at a good stage and so don't wish to lead anyone on when it looks like one of these other chats may go somewhere (but obviously can't deactivate profile as it ends those chats) (g) etc.

 

Excellent point very well made.
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To be honest even *if* that 95% *were* rejecting someone based on their looks, doesn't that just prove the adage that you can't be attractive to everyone? And rather than focusing on the "negative" of the rejections you should focus on the "positive" of the 5% that do respond?

[Setrion]

1 hour ago, 4RCH said:

You seem to make a lot of statements about what women do/don't do, think/don't think and you are even quoting statistics....... So, I wonder, seeing as you have so much knowledge on the subject, how do you know, where have you got your information from and where's the evidence to back it up?

I think the real question is, if he's got this all figured out and documented, why hasn't he done anything about it? If attractiveness is all that matters, why is he here complaining and not in plastic surgery getting a better face and abs? Seems like a pretty straightforward one-step solution to all his problems, by his logic. A happy ending for the only person everyone involved!

[ey****]

1 hour ago, gemini_man said:

To be honest even *if* that 95% *were* rejecting someone based on their looks, doesn't that just prove the adage that you can't be attractive to everyone? And rather than focusing on the "negative" of the rejections you should focus on the "positive" of the 5% that do respond?

well this is just it, isn't it?  Rather than be upset about who isn't interest - celebrate those who are.  

I remember saying a while ago that actually there is this unhappiness people have which is hard on themselves

So if someone is not getting replies they'll claim they'd at least like polite rejections, but if you got a load of polite rejections you'd be frustrated that so few didn't "give you a chance", that if you got a whole bunch of conversations that fizzled out that the person would be frustrated about "ghosting" (a horrifically misused term) and if someone is meeting people there'll then be whatever other frustrations they nit pick about either the date or lack of follow up - and - hell - we've even had people complain on the forums that their relationships are short term and end up fizzling out after the initial New Relationship Energy dies

and it's like, fuck, you're always going to be unhappy if the only acceptable outcome is a long term relationship with the person of your dreams - so - there has to be a learning to manage expectations

[Ch****]

Tuesday at 07:30 PM, CopperKnob said:

This comment redirected back at you. Have you analyzed the failure point for yourself and come up with a solution that relates specifically to you rather than ranting on about how women are the cause of so many mens failure to build relationships with them?
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Because, like it's been said so many times, there are varying levels of relationships and different things people get from those different relationships. It's not all about kink and sexual gratification. I learn something from every person I have a relationship with regardless of it's type and regardless as to whether I recognise that learning at that time of at a later date and, sometimes that's enough.
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I mean, at it's most base level, you and I have a 'relationship', one where we both share our very different outlooks on life in a public forum. Regardless as to whether I find your photo attractive or not, here I am interacting with you, providing you with an opportunity to show your personality.

I agree with Krunz.
I guess he mean , correct me Krunz if I’m wrong, that meeting people online is a very hard job for us, despite all the auto analysis the effort, the improving etc (you yourself said so in a previous answer)
So we kind have to do all the effort to meet someone, get fit, improve our job, change our attitude ( after all psychoanalysis exist for some reason haha), but it’s not enough many time to do all this.

Many people can only count on apps to, let’s say, put in practice certain things, or even socialize, sadly there are shy, introverted man too:
for those socializing live is almost impossible.

Because we have to face rejection, that is something that woman don’t face so often as a man, plus woman is the selective gender.

In my opinion you have so many man texting you, translatable I’m so many potential options especially on apps, that you don’t even bother to answer someone who is not 100% your ideal match..
You barely know what adaptation mean, since you are the selective gender, you can chose the best option available, while man deal with “adaptation” on a daily basis..

The first maybe “insecure” or “awkward sentence that we send is a possible dead end for any conversation, that does barely happens with you, you in fact can be insecure, awkward or explicit since the beginning and we would still be interested in you..

Last sentence that you say “providing you with an opportunity to show your personality” is the confirmation of what my statement..

[ge****]

18 minutes ago, Charlie218 said:

I agree with Krunz.
I guess he mean , correct me Krunz if I’m wrong, that meeting people online is a very hard job for us, despite all the auto analysis the effort, the improving etc (you yourself said so in a previous answer)
So we kind have to do all the effort to meet someone, get fit, improve our job, change our attitude ( after all psychoanalysis exist for some reason haha), but it’s not enough many time to do all this.

Many people can only count on apps to, let’s say, put in practice certain things, or even socialize, sadly there are shy, introverted man too:
for those socializing live is almost impossible.

Because we have to face rejection, that is something that woman don’t face so often as a man, plus woman is the selective gender.

In my opinion you have so many man texting you, translatable I’m so many potential options especially on apps, that you don’t even bother to answer someone who is not 100% your ideal match..
You barely know what adaptation mean, since you are the selective gender, you can chose the best option available, while man deal with “adaptation” on a daily basis..

The first maybe “insecure” or “awkward sentence that we send is a possible dead end for any conversation, that does barely happens with you, you in fact can be insecure, awkward or explicit since the beginning and we would still be interested in you..

Last sentence that you say “providing you with an opportunity to show your personality” is the confirmation of what my statement..

And here you are again trying to make it sound so simple for women compared to men - sure women may get more "attention" by way of unsolicited messages than men, but as the saying goes quantity does not equal quality in this case.
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Women face rejection just as men do, along with many other problems that men face, and yes there are gendered difficulties faced too - for example how often do men get sent abusive messages? Not saying it doesn't happen but I'll wager it's nowhere near the extent that women do.
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Simple fact is it's not "easy" for any gender, either on-line or off when it comes to finding potential partners, if it were sites like this and the many dating ones wouldn't exist.
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Ultimately as a man, which I can speak from experience of being, it comes down to approach, expectations, attitude and profile/pics as I've said numerous times before.
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Along with that a level of acceptance that finding a partner isn't shooting fish in a barrel and won't be instantaneous - it takes time and effort and not blindly doing the same thing time and again in the vain hope of getting a response.
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Any user of this site has the ability to have a positive experience if they set their expectations, approach and attitude right and don't blame others for their own failings.
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If I, as an almost 58 year old man, who is well past his prime, slightly overweight and with my own insecurities to deal with can have a positive experience then anyone can!!

[CopperKnob]

19 minutes ago, Charlie218 said:

I agree with Krunz.
I guess he mean , correct me Krunz if I’m wrong, that meeting people online is a very hard job for us, despite all the auto analysis the effort, the improving etc (you yourself said so in a previous answer)
So we kind have to do all the effort to meet someone, get fit, improve our job, change our attitude ( after all psychoanalysis exist for some reason haha), but it’s not enough many time to do all this.

Many people can only count on apps to, let’s say, put in practice certain things, or even socialize, sadly there are shy, introverted man too:
for those socializing live is almost impossible.

Because we have to face rejection, that is something that woman don’t face so often as a man, plus woman is the selective gender.

In my opinion you have so many man texting you, translatable I’m so many potential options especially on apps, that you don’t even bother to answer someone who is not 100% your ideal match..
You barely know what adaptation mean, since you are the selective gender, you can chose the best option available, while man deal with “adaptation” on a daily basis..

The first maybe “insecure” or “awkward sentence that we send is a possible dead end for any conversation, that does barely happens with you, you in fact can be insecure, awkward or explicit since the beginning and we would still be interested in you..

Last sentence that you say “providing you with an opportunity to show your personality” is the confirmation of what my statement..

Ok, but the question was, what's the solution. The 'problem' has been identified so what's next?
But also, it's a very odd take to say that all of your points affect men?
Whereas my take is that your points affect all genders.
There's a post here if you'd care to read it titled 'dating is hard for all genders'
I'd add to it, though I've no first hand experience, and hazard a guess that the trans community have much more to deal with in the dating world

[Ch****]

19 hours ago, FatefulDestiny said:

I want to shout this but I’m not quite that rude. 

If YOU have an issue with the way YOU look then that is YOUR issue and yours alone to deal with. 

I can guarantee that I (and many other women) do NOT prioritise looks. That said I firmly believe that in any relationship platonic/romantic/dynamic etc etc there has to be an element of attraction but does that mean people you or I find unattractive don’t have relationships with others? - of course not. That would be ridiculous. 

I even state on my profile that you need to engage my mind for me to have the remotest chance of being interested. 

A simple hi from a guy I’ve never interacted with previously is 99.9% certain to get zero reply from me - EVEN if he is the most classically handsome man or the planet or physically EXACTLY my type. 

And although people assume that as a woman on this site I get lots of messages I can categorically say I don’t (maybe I’m not good looking enough). That does not however mean I reply to everyone who messages me. It also doesn’t mean I go on a woe is me spree of assuming I’m not good looking enough (which appears to be what you’re implying). Further, I do actually send initial messages to people. And guess what - many times I don’t get a reply. Again though I don’t assume this is due to the way I look merely that they’re not interested and my message didn’t appeal to them. And that is ok. Everyone is entitled to do that, but they aren’t entitled to whine about not getting responses and assume it is only persons who conform to societal standards of attraction that get the (most) responses. It simply isn’t true.

( And those who know me can be very proud of me for how far I’ve come in terms of my feelings towards the way I look - this is exhibit A)

Ok you’ve made a point and I also think that look is not all, even if on apps it counts so much.

But let aside the look for a second, you mention that someone to attract you have to “engage your mind”: I honestly ask you how the hell to do that on an app haha.

I genuinely wanna know it, because if we meet live it’s another question, you see me, my body language, my expressions could speak to you, or not off course..
But here? You don’t even know how my voice sound like..
You also say that even from a Fet’s Brad Pitt if he says just hi you won’t even consider it.
May I ask why not?
Wouldn’t you consider someone saying “hi” if you meet him in some bar or clubs?

[Ch****]

17 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

Ok, but the question was, what's the solution. The 'problem' has been identified so what's next?
But also, it's a very odd take to say that all of your points affect men?
Whereas my take is that your points affect all genders.
There's a post here if you'd care to read it titled 'dating is hard for all genders'
I'd add to it, though I've no first hand experience, and hazard a guess that the trans community have much more to deal with in the dating world

I don’t have a solution, my purpose is to talk about facts and acknowledge things..
I wish I had one in fact haha.

Also in, response to your post, I can only and also pretty marginally talk about man issue, cause I’m a man.
I don’t have the pretense to know woman issue, or even less the presumption of coming here and talk about it..
But I’m here open hearted to understand more about it.

Because I know we all have trouble in dating, things never go one way..
Different troubles but still…

[CopperKnob]

11 minutes ago, Charlie218 said:

Ok you’ve made a point and I also think that look is not all, even if on apps it counts so much.

But let aside the look for a second, you mention that someone to attract you have to “engage your mind”: I honestly ask you how the hell to do that on an app haha.

I genuinely wanna know it, because if we meet live it’s another question, you see me, my body language, my expressions could speak to you, or not off course..
But here? You don’t even know how my voice sound like..
You also say that even from a Fet’s Brad Pitt if he says just hi you won’t even consider it.
May I ask why not?
Wouldn’t you consider someone saying “hi” if you meet him in some bar or clubs?

Because not everyone thinks Brad Pitt is fit (rhyme)
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Look, the OP was about the first message. Individuals in the comments have taken it elsewhere and the same old things have come up.
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Attraction can be based on anything not just someone's physique based upon a few photo's.
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People think having thinking crush on Vince Vaughn is 'weird' but it's not about his face or body, it's not even that he's a (I assume well paid) actor. It's because of his personality, charisma and the deep tone of his voice.
Chris Moyles was another one I had a thing for, a radio DJ whose humour I enjoyed and he certainly wasn't what society considers physically attractive.
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And ultimately, this is what it boils down to just as others have repeatedly commented here and elsewhere which people are un/intentionally not comprehending. What's attractive to one person is individual to them. If you don't get a response to a first message move on, that person was not the right person for you. It's not always the case that you did something wrong, perhaps you did but there are a multitude of other reasons for no response too.

[CopperKnob]

4 minutes ago, Charlie218 said:

I don’t have a solution, my purpose is to talk about facts and acknowledge things..
I wish I had one in fact haha.

Also in, response to your post, I can only and also pretty marginally talk about man issue, cause I’m a man.
I don’t have the pretense to know woman issue, or even less the presumption of coming here and talk about it..
But I’m here open hearted to understand more about it.

Because I know we all have trouble in dating, things never go one way..
Different troubles but still…

And it's ok not to have a solution. It's helpful to approach things like this with an open heart, mind and ears.
Genders can understand what another genders experience simply by listening, not arguing, not having a pissing contest but listening and understanding. We don't need to have a lived experience of something to understand something

[do****]

2 hours ago, Charlie218 said:

Ok you’ve made a point and I also think that look is not all, even if on apps it counts so much.

But let aside the look for a second, you mention that someone to attract you have to “engage your mind”: I honestly ask you how the hell to do that on an app haha.

I genuinely wanna know it, because if we meet live it’s another question, you see me, my body language, my expressions could speak to you, or not off course..
But here? You don’t even know how my voice sound like..
You also say that even from a Fet’s Brad Pitt if he says just hi you won’t even consider it.
May I ask why not?
Wouldn’t you consider someone saying “hi” if you meet him in some bar or clubs?

I do not have the problems you speak of, but that does not discredit it. However, please do not assign your situation to an entire gender or population as factual. You state how can someone engage someone's mind through text/words? Is that an honest question? What are books/articles/newspapers, etc. You mind is being engaged by reading these posts and formulating a response. I know countless women that prefer to read your thoughts than hear them 🤷🏾‍♂️. In my opinion, I think you be shooting yourself in the foot with your thinking. Try loosing the "stinking thinking" which will in turn reflect in your approach and things might change for you. Just my thoughts, no expert, can take or leave. I'm not reading ever comment because this convo is semi-toxic and detrimental to growth. So my comment might not be all the way on target. I just really wanted to address engaging a woman mind through message. Have you ever written a woman a poem? I got laid off so many poems I lost count 🤷🏾‍♂️

[lo****]

2 hours ago, Charlie218 said:

Ok you’ve made a point and I also think that look is not all, even if on apps it counts so much.

But let aside the look for a second, you mention that someone to attract you have to “engage your mind”: I honestly ask you how the hell to do that on an app haha.

I genuinely wanna know it, because if we meet live it’s another question, you see me, my body language, my expressions could speak to you, or not off course..
But here? You don’t even know how my voice sound like..
You also say that even from a Fet’s Brad Pitt if he says just hi you won’t even consider it.
May I ask why not?
Wouldn’t you consider someone saying “hi” if you meet him in some bar or clubs?

If someone sends me JUST "Hi" and expects a conversation to follow?

No. Just NO.

Such low effort and expect ME to find what ever to talk about?

So.. from the START you are expecting the woman to take on ALL the mental load? Make the conversation happen and carry it on?

No. Absolutely NOT!

[Ch****]

23 minutes ago, locketheart said:

If someone sends me JUST "Hi" and expects a conversation to follow?

No. Just NO.

Such low effort and expect ME to find what ever to talk about?

So.. from the START you are expecting the woman to take on ALL the mental load? Make the conversation happen and carry it on?

No. Absolutely NOT!

I have a bunch of questions hahah

Why you think someone is expecting something from you?

Just a polite hi back would be enough, and then see where it goes..
Also why do you feel the weight of the convo is on you?

Starting a convo is already an effort, someone is starting it, maybe we are taking this for granted?
How many conversation do you start and how do you start them?

Why we must have the role of making the effort to text, to text something to “tickle your mind” and carry the convo on too?
It would be good to rebalance this in order that famous equality we all talk about..

Maybe if nobody would have Ever said hi to you, this “hi” it wouldn’t bother you so much..
So again are you declining “hi” somewhere live too?
It’s not clear to me…

[CopperKnob]

15 minutes ago, Charlie218 said:

I have a bunch of questions hahah

Why you think someone is expecting something from you?

Just a polite hi back would be enough, and then see where it goes..
Also why do you feel the weight of the convo is on you?

Starting a convo is already an effort, someone is starting it, maybe we are taking this for granted?
How many conversation do you start and how do you start them?

Why we must have the role of making the effort to text, to text something to “tickle your mind” and carry the convo on too?
It would be good to rebalance this in order that famous equality we all talk about..

Maybe if nobody would have Ever said hi to you, this “hi” it wouldn’t bother you so much..
So again are you declining “hi” somewhere live too?
It’s not clear to me…

Honestly? Experience.
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Many of the 'hi' conversations are not like the ones in IRL. If I say hi to someone face to face, they'll say hi back and i would follow up with a question like how are you or ask about something that we've spoken about before so as an example the dog went to hydro this afternoon and after exchanging hello's we spoke about the dog's progress and then how each other's weeks have been because there's familiarity it's an easy conversation to have for the duration of the swim despite the fact that we don't know each other that well. On sites like this though, because there is no familiarity, a response of a hi to a hi is often left on read. So through learnt behaviour, a hi usually doesn't get responded to if that's all that message contains.
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In other circumstances people will typically say hi, maybe they'll add a liitle and more and following a response, will ask something of you requiring emotional labour. Not always but often and it'll be things like asking for advice or sending you something they've written to read through or asking you to write a post on the forums of a topic that interests them or moving into something sexual. Remember, this is from an absolute stranger often who you've had no interaction with at all. And that's why people often think that there's an expectation. You've said it yourself in your question, when you've said 'see where it goes' by which I mean, yiu're expecting that that one hi will lead somewhere and when many members mistake this as an app whose sole function is a dating site, that's typically the expectation they have. That oflr they think because it's a kink site that people here are an easy lay.
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Personally I have sent the first message and it's never been a simple hi or anything sexual or asking anyone to do anything for me. It's always been to respond to something that they've read or experienced in the forum particularly when other members have dog piled them, just to check in with them.

[Ch****]

2 hours ago, CopperKnob said:

Honestly? Experience.
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Many of the 'hi' conversations are not like the ones in IRL. If I say hi to someone face to face, they'll say hi back and i would follow up with a question like how are you or ask about something that we've spoken about before so as an example the dog went to hydro this afternoon and after exchanging hello's we spoke about the dog's progress and then how each other's weeks have been because there's familiarity it's an easy conversation to have for the duration of the swim despite the fact that we don't know each other that well. On sites like this though, because there is no familiarity, a response of a hi to a hi is often left on read. So through learnt behaviour, a hi usually doesn't get responded to if that's all that message contains.
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In other circumstances people will typically say hi, maybe they'll add a liitle and more and following a response, will ask something of you requiring emotional labour. Not always but often and it'll be things like asking for advice or sending you something they've written to read through or asking you to write a post on the forums of a topic that interests them or moving into something sexual. Remember, this is from an absolute stranger often who you've had no interaction with at all. And that's why people often think that there's an expectation. You've said it yourself in your question, when you've said 'see where it goes' by which I mean, yiu're expecting that that one hi will lead somewhere and when many members mistake this as an app whose sole function is a dating site, that's typically the expectation they have. That oflr they think because it's a kink site that people here are an easy lay.
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Personally I have sent the first message and it's never been a simple hi or anything sexual or asking anyone to do anything for me. It's always been to respond to something that they've read or experienced in the forum particularly when other members have dog piled them, just to check in with them.

Yes I feel what you say and is reasonable, I don’t question the “hi”as a convo starter is quite bland..

Even if at the beginning of my experience in the apps even if I learned this the hard way, nowadays I feel it make sense not to say just hi in here and I agree.
But you articulated your answer and you gave valid points of reflection.

@locketheart made a different statement.
She said and repeated a categorical “NO” and she didn’t articulate her answer, she did in a way that provoked my curiosity to know more about her position about it..

[CopperKnob]

12 minutes ago, Charlie218 said:

Yes I feel what you say and is reasonable, I don’t question the “hi”as a convo starter is quite bland..

Even if at the beginning of my experience in the apps even if I learned this the hard way, nowadays I feel it make sense not to say just hi in here and I agree.
But you articulated your answer and you gave valid points of reflection.

@locketheart made a different statement.
She said and repeated a categorical “NO” and she didn’t articulate her answer, she did in a way that provoked my curiosity to know more about her position about it..

I think, without putting words into lockets mouth, the discussion of one gender has it harder than others is a regular occurrence where the same advice is offered repeatedly and patiently. Often though the poster asking for advice doesn't return to the thread or others will shoot down the advice as has been the case here and that results in a lot of frustration