Film Talk: The Secretary & Sadomasochism

[Deleted Member]

Maggie Gyllenhaal brings to life Lee Holloway, a mentally unstable woman just released from seeking treatment from suffering from self-mutilation. She radiates a mouse-like innocent charm as we follow her story back into a world after *** and trauma. James Spader plays a dominant role, focusing on pushing Lee’s limits as well as his own, as Mr. Grey. Putting the obvious concerns with this movie aside such as no initial consent, no boundaries discussed, ghosting with no explanation or closure after a relationship/scene, and no aftercare offered.

How do we feel about this story? We begin to feel Mr. Greys concern for her when they begin to practice picking up the phone. He yells for her to be louder and to have more confidence. He then sits her down and begins to ask her very emotionally charged questions. Who she sleeps with. And why she cuts herself. Somehow through this link in communication she agrees to never cut herself again. The power he held for her, the power to semi-care for her more than anyone else has. She grasps at that connection. She then agrees to walk home instead of driving with her Mom. And she says in the movie.

“And when I thought about it, I realized I probably never had taken a walk alone. But because he had given me the permission to do this, because he insisted on it. I felt held by him as I walked alone. I felt he was with me.”

After this scene, there body language changes. Suddenly Mr.Grey begins to yell at her for typos while simultaneously leaning over and speaking into her ear the closer he got.

Now once the notorious spank scene happens for the first time. How do we feel? We feel her shock, her arousal her curiosity ignite. However, her and Mr. Grey lack the essential safe, sane and consensual communication.
I know that. But I’m wondering. Is Lee falling for her Dom so hard because he was the first person to see her clearly, someone who genuinely wanted better for her? Or is she falling for him because he is the physical representation of her love for cutting and self mutilation? Discovering the masochist in myself I find there is a huge difference from self inflicting *** to feel anything v.s. enjoying it from someone that truly wants the best for you and would never want to hurt you. But I do feel like in the beginning it’s hard not to ask myself those same questions. And Lee clearly doesn’t know if Mr. Grey is doing this out of love for her because there was never consent or even a conversation about boundaries. She shows up at his house, in need of a spanking as if he is her knife.

In the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-5) Sexual Masochism Disorder is diagnosed only to individuals who develop psychological difficulties because of it. I feel like that is a very fine line to walk. And why it’s so important to discuss and respect boundaries. Is Lee indulging in the same *** and simply removing the psychological stress with the love from and for her new Dom?

I want to make it clear. That I am confident in my love for masochism. And I only bring in my opinion to open up the floor. I truly want to educate myself and hear the opinions of my fellow Sadists/Masochists/Kinksters out there.
How do we feel about the clear transition from mental health issues developing into this relationship in The Secretary?

However, I do find it comforting to hear her say this quote in the end.

“In one way or another, I've always suffered. I didn't know why, exactly. But I do know that I'm not so scared of suffering now. I feel more than I've ever felt, and I've found someone to feel with, to play with, to love, in a way that feels right for me. I hope he knows that I can see that he suffers, too. And that I want to love him."

[Glong96]

I dunno about all that but it's a good film

[Rossco]

It’s a fantastic film & a brilliant portrayal by Gyllenhaal of someone struggling with there mental health & identity

[Deleted Member]

Agree that there is a lot of problematic behaviour at the beginning....

but once they’re more on the same page, They do show aftercare in a wonderfully intimate scene. Seriously I have a bathtub in my bedroom because of that scene.

In a way I’m torn on the lack of a boundaries discussion on the screen... my only thoughts on that are that BDSM was so much less known about in the mainstream that the it would upset the flow... and also be so alien to the mainstream audience... I guess this was supposed to feel like an office romance with kink. Office romances are dalliances without rules...

Finally, 50 shades of grey has a boyfriend scene, and that doesn’t stop problematic behaviour so I guess in film maybe it isn’t 100% essential.

I always like to think that they do discus boundaries off screen... AND they should have put in at lease a throw away line or something thing though like a voiceover “We discussed boundaries and limits” but again it’s not an educational film soooooo I’m torn.

One point I do like is it also starts doing her own research Which is a good thing to see on screen!

Furthermore the concept of brating is put on screen in a serious movie for maybe the first time (happy to be corrected of course always looking for more BDSM movies)

My favourite bit is when his former wife, who seems to be a dominant herself, says Maggie’s character is a genius because of the worm in the post “prank”

SO IT’s tough, there a lot of good there’s also a lot of good missing, which makes some of the spicy things come across as bad... and there’s some bad... but I still like it.

[Deleted Member]

@Erik295 Very well put!Haha -spicy things come across bad, and there is some bad, but I still like it -I feel the same way!

I like to think they discussed boundaries as well. And I do love the aftercare scene in the end when he bathes her. It just hurts my heart so much the way he essentially kicked her out and ended things before hand, leaving her empty with no answers. When seemingly she’s done everything asked of her. However, this builds the mystery of Mr.Grey and rein***s the “Forbidden Love” theme of the movie. The moment she strokes his hair and says ,”But I want to know you.” He pays her off and screams “Get Out!” So we watch Lee pack up and suddenly she is the secretary from the beginning of the movie as his “For Hire” sign lights up behind her. The imagery of her sitting at the bottom of the dark pool is fitting.

Then we see her try to replace him with other kinky people she goes out looking for. I really do like this movie. And I feel like in the end we still don’t know anything about Mr. Grey or his life. We just follow Lee’s journey leaving a mental hospital and into her Doms arms. And so from a psychology stand point, I guess we do see the strength in Lee’s will power to sit in Mr. Grey’s chair for 3 days or more to show her love for him. I just wish we had more of a character arch for him during this point as well. When it seemed he had full intention of leaving her there until he read her newspaper interview. But I do love the relationship they clearly develop in the end. And the way she stares into the camera. We see Lee as very strong submissive in the end.

But yes, definitely a classic from the early 2000s !

[Deleted Member]

It is my favourite mainstream kinks film. It’s absolutely amazing

[Deleted Member]

@DaniBBgirl—- I think you need to write some fan fiction... I’d love to learn more about both... and get some spicy scenes worked in!

It is all to short... maybe you could flesh it out for us!

[Deleted Member]

On 3/13/2021 at 9:23 AM, Erik295 said:

Agree that there is a lot of problematic behaviour at the beginning....

but once they’re more on the same page, They do show aftercare in a wonderfully intimate scene. Seriously I have a bathtub in my bedroom because of that scene.

In a way I’m torn on the lack of a boundaries discussion on the screen... my only thoughts on that are that BDSM was so much less known about in the mainstream that the it would upset the flow... and also be so alien to the mainstream audience... I guess this was supposed to feel like an office romance with kink. Office romances are dalliances without rules...

Finally, 50 shades of grey has a boyfriend scene, and that doesn’t stop problematic behaviour so I guess in film maybe it isn’t 100% essential.

I always like to think that they do discus boundaries off screen... AND they should have put in at lease a throw away line or something thing though like a voiceover “We discussed boundaries and limits” but again it’s not an educational film soooooo I’m torn.

One point I do like is it also starts doing her own research Which is a good thing to see on screen!

Furthermore the concept of brating is put on screen in a serious movie for maybe the first time (happy to be corrected of course always looking for more BDSM movies)

My favourite bit is when his former wife, who seems to be a dominant herself, says Maggie’s character is a genius because of the worm in the post “prank”

SO IT’s tough, there a lot of good there’s also a lot of good missing, which makes some of the spicy things come across as bad... and there’s some bad... but I still like it.

Is that really why you have a bathtub in your bedroom 🤔 you must be a super fan 😏

[Deleted Member]

4 minutes ago, RestlessRaven said:

Is that really why you have a bathtub in your bedroom 🤔 you must be a super fan 😏

I feel like I told you this🤔... oh well now U know

[Deleted Member]

Well I found the film quite fascinating for its time. But I agree that I felt a tad unsure with regards the first spanking scene. Yet the shock of it was quite arousing too. But it does feel like there is an issue around consent early on.

it does romanticise the idea of bdsm as their relationship develops. Maybe that’s why I like it.

But I also wonder who is really the unstable one? I think towards the she is more able to accept her needs than he is his. 
 

 

[Deleted Member]

2 minutes ago, Erik295 said:

I feel like I told you this🤔... oh well now U know

Well my apologies if I had forgotten... need to listen better 😏

[Deleted Member]

@RestlessRaven
I agree she definitely has a stronger character in the end. I just wish they tied up the ends with him as well. But if anything maybe it’s more of a realistic take? Not all of us can often be stable as that can take some time?

[UnsatisfiedSub]

I adore this movie! 

- I think it explores the aspect of how it can be difficult at times for us to accept ourselves and our kinks. How others around us not only lack understanding but also perhaps the inability to satisfy us. And that in fact the only way for some of us to find happiness, is to embrace our inner crazy. Which means allowing someone else to see it. Which can be daunting for many reasons. .. 

- As for that 'Christian Grey' series.. just awful.

The author stole from the movie 'The Secretary' for starters. The dumb cliques of a man who beats his woman because of childhood trauma and the woman who can't decide if its *** or not and if she can handle being with a man like this, because otherwise the sex is beyond awesome... Just ugh...

I want to see the Sub crave to be the type of sub he/she becomes in a movie/book. Even if its introduced to a character who at the beginning is naive of such things.. Characters should enjoy it. There's a mental aspect to these relationships thats key that is missing from 'Christian Grey'. It would take quite a bit of writing to explain this. But in contrast to the chic from the Christian movies -  I found Gyllenhall real. She was convincing. Her need was visible, and beautiful. This is part of the allur of a Sub.

---  One of my favorite books is The Taming of Sleeping Beauty, by A.N. Roquelaure . Just a quick recommendation in case you're into erotic books as well.

[Deleted Member]

@UnsatisfiedSub
I agree! Gyllenhall’s performance is captivating and shows her desire beautifully! And I understand the frustration with 50 shades , but I do find a theme here when presenting BDSM in Hollywood. It’s always related to ***, mental illness and trauma. And although these things are related to most of our lives (we are all human after all) it stays at the forefront of the vanilla watchers mind during the film and pulls away from the scene. I’d like to think these backgrounds in these characters add to their character development but it is hard to say.
—and I love recommendations, Thank you!