sub or slave

[Deleted Member]

Sub or slave ? With the female members I very often see that they identify as sub AND slave. For those the differences in a nutshell. A sub submits, and has the right to negotiate. In consultation, a 24/7, and possibly with TPE can be established. This is not standard in a D/s dynamic. The slave is, as the name implies, the property of the Master/Owner and therefore has no right to negotiate. He/she is owned by the Master/Owner, and this includes 24/7 and TPE. There seems to be a lot of uncertainty about this among the current generation.

[ey****]

This discourse comes up a lot - and honestly...

the difference between sub or slave is merely the terms you use in your dynamic. That's pretty much it.

If the person is free to end the dynamic at any time, then they're not a slave

If the person is not free to end the dynamic at any time, then they're being held against their will and you face charges.

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by eyemblacksheep

[Deleted Member]

Well I don't think you're taking into account, is that someone can be different things depending on the dynamic that they are in. If you begin a dynamic with a Master, you take on a slave role. If it's a Dom who doesn't want that level of control, you might identify as his submissive. You can have multiple roles, you don't have to be acting them all of the time.

[Deleted Member]

19 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

This discourse comes up a lot - and honestly...

the difference between sub or slave is merely the terms you use in your dynamic. That's pretty much it.

If the person is free to end the dynamic at any time, then they're not a slave

If the person is not free to end the dynamic at any time, then they're being held against their will and you face charges.

 

A common reaction, which completely misses the point. Basically you degenerate an M/s into the absolute *** of power over his slave, when the rules that apply in a M/s are in fact equivalent to a D/s based on a 24/7 with TPE that I don't hear from you . Just like in a D/s, you have dominants in a M/s that are no good, and that we in the community would rather be poor than rich. In short, I respect your opinion, definitely don't share it, but don't go into it because the topic has not been shared for this, and is therefore not intended for this.

[ey****]

I guess to combine also

They may have an idea of what they feel a sub and a slave are

But in order to become a slave may feel they need to be trained as someone's submissive first

or

given that submission is given freely they may be saying they are interested in the slave role, but will be doing so via their own free will

or

the other tidbit people come out with is "all slaves are subs but not all subs or slaves" which would therefore imply that someone who is a slave is therefore a slave and a sub. 

[qu****]

From Masters and slaves in the strict sense I've chatted with it's been a minimum of a year before the relationship becomes such in a real sense, getting to know each other properly, discussing terms of service etc, then, when both are completely happy and satisfied a contract is signed if that's their desire.

[VILKDUJA]

That is completely incorrect & so, so wrong. You cannot put the differences between a sub & a slave in a "nutshell" in this way. And if you are going to attempt the impossible, at least get the basics right for a start. Firstly, everyone, regardless of how they identify, how their dynamic is, however they may be "labelled" has the right to negotiate - terms, boundaries, limits. To even suggest otherwise is highly dangerous. There is so, so much more involved in the differences than that, even if you attempt to simplify it in a "nutshell" as you say. It appears you have very little understanding of either dynamic at all, & that is dangerous.

[Deleted Member]

My apologies in advance for this response because of the theme. I don't want to offend Or hurt anyone. Look into the history of slavery. Slaves were traded and kept as property. They slept where the Owner wanted, wore what the Owner gave them, so did the food, and did what the Owner ordered o, etc.. A sub, on the other hand, submits voluntarily. The differences couldn't be bigger and more engraving. This also makes it clear that a sub is not going to be happy in the role of a slave. Conversely, a Dom(me) is not going to be happy with a slave. About 15 years ago you were introduced by an insider, and you had to earn your part, and the proportions were clear. This has been dropped, and the division of roles is completely eroded away.

[Deleted Member]

24 minutes ago, quietlysure said:

From Masters and slaves in the strict sense I've chatted with it's been a minimum of a year before the relationship becomes such in a real sense, getting to know each other properly, discussing terms of service etc, then, when both are completely happy and satisfied a contract is signed if that's their desire.

Mostly correct, strictly the terms of service are written down in a contract.

[Deleted Member]

Oh thanks for the lecture 👍🏻

[Deleted Member]

1 minute ago, Dragonflylover said:

Oh thanks for the lecture 👍🏻

Glad I could help 👍

[Deleted Member]

34 minutes ago, quietlysure said:

From Masters and slaves in the strict sense I've chatted with it's been a minimum of a year before the relationship becomes such in a real sense, getting to know each other properly, discussing terms of service etc, then, when both are completely happy and satisfied a contract is signed if that's their desire.

Do you also know the differences between a M/s in terms of BDSM and Gor?

[Deleted Member]

This. This ***es me off. @Sparklehorse came closest and politely pointed out that the details were sketchy at best, and wrong at worst. It is all well and good "reading" about this, or even "chatting" with people who say they are in the dynamic. If you don't understand the dynamic to start with how the hell will you know? We are all learning, and I am not here to throw shade at people who mean well, but unless you have LIVED the dynamic you need to shut up and not speculate. Don't post things you have no direct knowledge of, don't post things because you think it it will make an interesting article and people will shower you with love...your misconceptions can affect people directly, and cause more harm than good.

[Deleted Member]

6 minutes ago, TheScribe said:

This. This ***es me off. @Sparklehorse came closest and politely pointed out that the details were sketchy at best, and wrong at worst. It is all well and good "reading" about this, or even "chatting" with people who say they are in the dynamic. If you don't understand the dynamic to start with how the hell will you know? We are all learning, and I am not here to throw shade at people who mean well, but unless you have LIVED the dynamic you need to shut up and not speculate. Don't post things you have no direct knowledge of, don't post things because you think it it will make an interesting article and people will shower you with love...your misconceptions can affect people directly, and cause more harm than good.

Watch your language, sir. Keep it polite without naming and shaming, sir. Thank you, sir, for your contribution, sir.

[Deleted Member]

With the greatest of respect, Sir, I did not name or shame anyone. Sometimes the truth slaps you in the face, and you take the knock and ackowledge it as deserved.

[Deleted Member]

9 minutes ago, TheScribe said:

With the greatest of respect, Sir, I did not name or shame anyone. Sometimes the truth slaps you in the face, and you take the knock and ackowledge it as deserved.

What you are writing now works in both directions, including yours. If you feel that your language is appropriate, this says more about you than it does about me. That should be clear to everyone. With regard to your language use, I distance myself from it, and I already agree with you that we will never agree on your language use. Have a nice evening further.

[qu****]

And how do you know who I've chatted with, and in what way we chatted, and over which period of time, 

[Deleted Member]

42 minutes ago, Dragonflylover said:

Oh thanks for the lecture 👍🏻

It was sarcasm. Have you even noticed how many have liked your post? Zero. Have you seen how many have liked others' critical responses? Many. This community does not like being lectured to. It's your choice whether to take anything from that or to continue to double down.

[as****]

51 minutes ago, FreeUrMind said:

My apologies in advance for this response because of the theme. I don't want to offend Or hurt anyone. Look into the history of slavery. Slaves were traded and kept as property. They slept where the Owner wanted, wore what the Owner gave them, so did the food, and did what the Owner ordered o, etc.. A sub, on the other hand, submits voluntarily. The differences couldn't be bigger and more engraving. This also makes it clear that a sub is not going to be happy in the role of a slave. Conversely, a Dom(me) is not going to be happy with a slave. About 15 years ago you were introduced by an insider, and you had to earn your part, and the proportions were clear. This has been dropped, and the division of roles is completely eroded away.

This is what you think BDSM is based on? Delete your account.

[Deleted Member]

5 minutes ago, Dragonflylover said:

It was sarcasm. Have you even noticed how many have liked your post? Zero. Have you seen how many have liked others' critical responses? Many. This community does not like being lectured to. It's your choice whether to take anything from that or to continue to double down.

The entire community revolves around passing on knowledge, information, and experiences. You should have known that, as a full member who takes himself seriously. Hence my heartfelt thanks for your constructive contribution 👍

[Deleted Member]

7 minutes ago, Dragonflylover said:

It was sarcasm. Have you even noticed how many have liked your post? Zero. Have you seen how many have liked others' critical responses? Many. This community does not like being lectured to. It's your choice whether to take anything from that or to continue to double down.

The entire community revolves around passing on knowledge, information, and experiences. You should have known that, as a full member who takes himself seriously. Hence my heartfelt thanks for your constructive contribution.

[Deleted Member]

Just now, FreeUrMind said:

The entire community revolves around passing on knowledge, information, and experiences. You should have known that, as a full member who takes himself seriously. Hence my heartfelt thanks for your constructive contribution.

That is the first accurate thing you have contributed. The community DOES revolve around shared knowledge and experience, but NOT from something someone has read about and decided to put a their own interpretation on it. Being a full member means nothing. I am a full member of the AA but know nothing about fixing cars. I wouldn#t presume to go into a forum of mechanics and lecture them on how I think it should be done. You may want the last word in here, but seriously fella, learn from this and avoid it in the future.

[Deleted Member]

24 minutes ago, FreeUrMind said:

The entire community revolves around passing on knowledge, information, and experiences. You should have known that, as a full member who takes himself seriously. Hence my heartfelt thanks for your constructive contribution 👍

Herself. And double down it is. 🙄 Predictable. I have contributed to this community in many ways without (I hope) ever lecturing it.

[Ar****]

1 hour ago, FreeUrMind said:

About 15 years ago you were introduced by an insider, and you had to earn your part, and the proportions were clear. This has been dropped, and the division of roles is completely eroded away.

Out of everything you've written here today (perhaps with the inability to glance at a pic specifically placed next to a user's name to help us differentiate gender and then make an assumption about them - hmmm, on second thoughts perhaps it isn't so surprising that you would make such an assumption 🤔), I find this the most deeply fascinating.

 

It doesn't seem as though anybody agrees with you, but I'm going to take a moment to indulge you. Let's go for a ride and imagine an immensely hypothetical "IF". It's a huge if. Whatever you've ever imagined before, this is bigger. Can we all see that image? Good. Now we're going to take that "IF", and put it within a question that gives you the benefit of the doubt.

 

If we assume that the theory and history behind the point you are trying to make is correct and agree that what you have been saying was accurate 15 years or so ago, are you able to acknowledge the concepts of evolution and change? Can you concede that, much like laws change with the advent of new technologies and scientific discoveries (as just two examples) or languages and cultures experience growth and adapt over similar relatively short time periods, communities such as this also are not inflexible, rigid bodies with rules and terms written in stone? Or maybe - just maybe - recognise that many words (like, ummm, slave... as an example) have more than one acceptable common-usage meaning?

[Deleted Member]

Will always be your choice 😘